"KØHB" wrote in message link.net...
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote

|
| As outlined by the ARRL, a "one time adjustment" seems the only
practical
| way to clean up the overly complicated license structure that had
evolved
| over the years.
|

It's instructive to note that ARRL and NCI, (not FCC) are characterizing
the license structure as "overly complicated".

Also NCVEC.

The ARRL proposal says it is "absolutely necessary" to eliminate
license classes that are not available to new issues (such as the
Advanced) anymore.
Why it is so "absolutely necessary" is not explained.

With only modest
changes, this structure has been extant since 1951, before the age of
computerized record keeping and modern database. How come it's suddenly
"overly complicated"?

Bingo!

The Advanced class was closed to new issues from the beginning of 1953
to some time in 1967. The FCC kept those folks on the paper database
for all those years, even though an Advanced carried no different
privileges than a General back then.

But suppose for the moment that it IS overly complicated and needs
reform... to use a term from another NCI Director, do we need to be
"hellbent" to do it in one swell foop? I recall a proposal by one
WA6VSE a few years back that would have transformed the structure from
it's present state into a 2-class structure in as little as 5 years,
with no free passes and with nobody being stripped of privileges. The
details escape me, but I'm sure we could Google it up and have a look.

Or if the administrative burden isn't really at FCC but at the VEC's
like ARRL and W5YI, well there's another proposal floating about which
would overnight limit their testing burden to just two classes. No
Morse test to give, and only two written tests. Again, not a soul would
get a free pass and not a soul would be stripped of any privilege they
now enjoy. You can view that proposal at http://tinyurl.com/wce9

What's it's RM-number? It looks better and better...

| And, as a number of experienced, yet realistic, hams have pointed out,
the
| amount and level of material in the 200-ish page "Now you're talking!"
study
| guide (and on the Tech test) is not all that different from the old
General
| that I took at the FCC's old Long Beach, CA office over 25 years ago.

We're not talking about 25-years ago. We're talking about today.

Yup.

And remember this fun fact: *anyone* who passed the old Technician
(before March 21, 1987) and can dicument it and now holds a Technician
(or passes the 35 question test for it) can get a no-additional-tests
upgrade to General. Just go to a VE session, present the
documentation, pay the fee and get the upgrade. Even a Tech license
that expired in 1956 is good for Element 1 and Element 3 credit.

Today an applicant needs to pass a single 35 question exam to acquire
a Technician license.
Today an applicant needs to pass a second 35 question exam (which
contains material not tested in the Technician exam) to acquire a
General license.

The ARRL proposal to waive the second examination for all todays
Technicains (about a third of a million) effectively states that todays
Technican exam is perfectly adequate for General class privileges. If
that is true, then ipso facto we can make the case that forevermore the
exam for General need be no more technically demanding than todays
fall-off-a-log-easy entry level Technician exam.

That's the discussion that I was admonished not to have some months
back.

Now you and Ed Hare at ARRL can spin-doctor all you wish, but reality
doesn't care what you believe.

Same argument goes for the Advanced.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Even a Tech license
that expired in 1956 is good for Element 1 and Element 3 credit.


Thought you would get lifetime credit for Element 1 only. At 5WPM. If
you took and passed 13 or 20 and didn't do 5 I heard that you would not
get credit for Element 1.

Robert Casey wrote in message ...

(I previously wrote):

Even a Tech license
that expired in 1956 is good for Element 1 and Element 3 credit.


Thought you would get lifetime credit for Element 1 only.

See below.

At 5WPM. If
you took and passed 13 or 20 and didn't do 5 I heard that you would not
get credit for Element 1.

That part is true - you have to have passed 5 wpm to get Element 1
credit.

Quoting Part 97:

§97.505 Element credit.

(a) The administering VEs must give credit as specified below to an
examinee
holding any of the following license grants or license documents:

(1) An unexpired (or expired but within the grace period for renewal)
FCC-granted Advanced Class operator license grant: Elements 1, 2, and
3.

(2) An unexpired (or expired but within the grace period for renewal)
FCC-granted General Class operator license grant: Elements 1, 2, and
3.

(3) An unexpired (or expired but within the grace period for renewal)
FCC-granted Technician Plus Class operator (including a Technician
Class
operator license granted before February 14, 1991) license grant:
Elements 1
and 2.

(4) An unexpired (or expired but within the grace period for renewal)
FCC-granted Technician Class operator license grant: Element 2.

(5) An unexpired (or expired) FCC-granted Novice Class operator
license grant:
Element 1.

(6) A CSCE: Each element the CSCE indicates the examinee passed within
the
previous 365 days.

(7) An unexpired (or expired less than 5 years) FCC-issued commercial
radiotelegraph operator license or permit: Element 1.

(8) An expired FCC-issued Technician Class operator license document
granted
before March 21, 1987: Element 3.

(9) An expired or unexpired FCC-issued Technician Class operator
license
document granted before February 14, 1991: Element 1.

(b) No examination credit, except as herein provided, shall be allowed
on the
basis of holding or having held any other license grant or document.

(End of Part 97 quote)

Note that an old expired Tech can be good for Element and 3,
(97.505/8) and an old expired Novice or Tech can be good for Element
1. (97.505/9). So anyone who ever held a Tech before March 21, 1987
and can document it need only pass Element 2 to get a General.

Consider these scenarios:

Expired Novice or Tech-with-code licenses are good for Element 1, but
other
expired-beyond-the-grace-period licenses are not. So someone who held
a Novice
53 years ago and let it expire gets Element 1 credit, but someone who
held an
Extra and let it expire 732 days ago gets no credit. Similar for
Technician.

In similar fashion, an expired Tech from before March 21, 1987 is
worth Element
3, but not Element 2! Also, no other expired-beyond-the-grace-period
license is
worth written element credit.

But them's the rules.

73 de Jim, N2EY