Alun wrote in message . ..
Tony P. wrote in
:

In article , daviesl2003
@aol.com says...
I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I
feel it should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the
HF bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should
not. There should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a
easy one either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 - I'll
be lucky to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.

I didn't find the series of tests difficult at all. The 5WPM and 13WPM
were fairly easy too, as I had time to practice the 5WPM while on a
rainy camping trip. Good thing I brought plenty of batteries and a code
practice tapes.


I'll grant that 5wpm is relatively easy, but still a lot of work

13WPM was gotten by actually working HF with what privileges I had as a
Tech+. From there, up to 20WPM and all done.


I'd say it's a bit harder for those with no interest in using CW

I had no particular interest in the topics covered by probably half
the courses I had to pass to get a degree. But I did pass 'em
(grousing all the way) and the priveleges flowed. The philosophy
behind volume of work invested in learning = volume of privs goes back
at least to the guilds of the early Renaissance.

I think the biggest detriment to testing now is the publication of the
question pools. People can get into the hobby via rote memorization,

True in some instances, but most people don't have photographic memory

which by the way is what schools teach kids, not how to think but how
to memorize.

So over time the hobby is just going to be awash in nitwits,

I don't think so. Not any more than it already is, anyway!

and then
fade away. There are too many other options to communicate.



...which is another issue altogether. The Internet has hit the hobby pretty
hard.

What's your point? Ham radio license tests should be reduced to
passing a test on mouse operations in order for ham radio to compete
with the Internet? Passing a one-button mouse test garners a Tech
ticket, two gets a General and two plus a scroller wheel gets the
examinee an Extra?

w3rv

(Brian Kelly) wrote in
m:

Alun wrote in message
. ..
Tony P. wrote in
:

In article ,
daviesl2003 @aol.com says...
I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I
feel it should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to
the HF bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should
not. There should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a
easy one either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 -
I'll be lucky to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.

I didn't find the series of tests difficult at all. The 5WPM and
13WPM were fairly easy too, as I had time to practice the 5WPM while
on a rainy camping trip. Good thing I brought plenty of batteries
and a code practice tapes.


I'll grant that 5wpm is relatively easy, but still a lot of work

13WPM was gotten by actually working HF with what privileges I had
as a Tech+. From there, up to 20WPM and all done.


I'd say it's a bit harder for those with no interest in using CW

I had no particular interest in the topics covered by probably half
the courses I had to pass to get a degree. But I did pass 'em
(grousing all the way) and the priveleges flowed. The philosophy
behind volume of work invested in learning = volume of privs goes back
at least to the guilds of the early Renaissance.


You would have thought we would have learnt since then, rather than aping
the practices of hundreds of years ago.

I think the biggest detriment to testing now is the publication of
the question pools. People can get into the hobby via rote
memorization,

True in some instances, but most people don't have photographic memory

which by the way is what schools teach kids, not how to think but
how to memorize.

So over time the hobby is just going to be awash in nitwits,

I don't think so. Not any more than it already is, anyway!

and then
fade away. There are too many other options to communicate.



...which is another issue altogether. The Internet has hit the hobby
pretty hard.

What's your point?

My point is that we need to recruit people into the hobby.

Ham radio license tests should be reduced to
passing a test on mouse operations in order for ham radio to compete
with the Internet? Passing a one-button mouse test garners a Tech
ticket, two gets a General and two plus a scroller wheel gets the
examinee an Extra?

w3rv


Where do you get that from? I don't think we should reduce theory standards
atall. I just think we need to abolish the code test.

Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
From: Alun
Date: 5/8/2004 9:38 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in
om:

I had no particular interest in the topics covered by probably half
the courses I had to pass to get a degree. But I did pass 'em
(grousing all the way) and the priveleges flowed. The philosophy
behind volume of work invested in learning = volume of privs goes back
at least to the guilds of the early Renaissance.


You would have thought we would have learnt since then, rather than aping
the practices of hundreds of years ago.

Nope.

You can refer to almost any current career college degree program and
still find curricula loaded with irrelevant and inconsequential "fluff"
courses, no doubt "mandated" for the purpose of keeping the paying student
paying.

What's your point?

My point is that we need to recruit people into the hobby.

If one reflects back on the history and demograpics of the Amateur Radio
Service, there have been those who obtained licensure for a myriad of reasons,
but those who really get in it and stick with it have recurring central
interests...Two types come to mind. First are those who are facinated by radio
for radio's sake...Gadgets.

The other are those who see Amateur Radio as a further means to an
end...public service, emergency services, etc.

Then there are always those "others", ie: husband-wife licensee's who just
want a cheap honey-do connection and nothing else.

Most of the "active" folks are the gadget operators and ES types, so let's
go to where they are rather than wait for them to find us..."Popular Science"
and "Popular Mechanics" magazine..."Journal of Emergency Medical Services",
"Emergency Medical Services", etc etc etc.

I never understood why we put the number of "basic" licensing course ads
we do in Amateur Radio magazines...Most folks who read them are ALREADY
licensed!

Ham radio license tests should be reduced to
passing a test on mouse operations in order for ham radio to compete
with the Internet? Passing a one-button mouse test garners a Tech
ticket, two gets a General and two plus a scroller wheel gets the
examinee an Extra?

Where do you get that from? I don't think we should reduce theory standards
atall. I just think we need to abolish the code test.

Code test-schmode test...If you want to re-establish some validity of the
Amateur Radio Service's credibility as a breeding ground for technically
competent licensees, close the written test pools.

That will never happen, however, for one very prominent reason if no
other...Truth be known that MOST people would never get an Amateur license
because of the WRITTEN test...In it's raw form, it requires that the applicant
actually KNOW something. That requires REAL learning, not just rote
memorization, which is exactly what learning Morse Code is, and is exactly what
the written tests are now.

Element 1 only adds access to about 2.5% of all Amateur allocations.
Those that really wanted HF priviledges only saw the Code test as a
hurdle...Not a brick wall.

73

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
From: Alun
Date: 5/8/2004 9:38 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in
. com:

I had no particular interest in the topics covered by probably half
the courses I had to pass to get a degree. But I did pass 'em
(grousing all the way) and the priveleges flowed. The philosophy
behind volume of work invested in learning = volume of privs goes
back at least to the guilds of the early Renaissance.


You would have thought we would have learnt since then, rather than
aping the practices of hundreds of years ago.

Nope.

You can refer to almost any current career college degree program
and
still find curricula loaded with irrelevant and inconsequential "fluff"
courses, no doubt "mandated" for the purpose of keeping the paying
student paying.

What's your point?

My point is that we need to recruit people into the hobby.

If one reflects back on the history and demograpics of the Amateur
Radio
Service, there have been those who obtained licensure for a myriad of
reasons, but those who really get in it and stick with it have
recurring central interests...Two types come to mind. First are those
who are facinated by radio for radio's sake...Gadgets.


I don't think I've ever got over my facination with how radio waves bridge
huge distances. It still seems like magic even though I have studied how it
works.

The other are those who see Amateur Radio as a further means to an
end...public service, emergency services, etc.

Then there are always those "others", ie: husband-wife licensee's
who just
want a cheap honey-do connection and nothing else.

Most of the "active" folks are the gadget operators and ES types,
so let's
go to where they are rather than wait for them to find us..."Popular
Science" and "Popular Mechanics" magazine..."Journal of Emergency
Medical Services", "Emergency Medical Services", etc etc etc.


Agreed. Mind you, ads in Popular Mecanics are incredibly expensive

I never understood why we put the number of "basic" licensing
course ads
we do in Amateur Radio magazines...Most folks who read them are ALREADY
licensed!

Ham radio license tests should be reduced to
passing a test on mouse operations in order for ham radio to compete
with the Internet? Passing a one-button mouse test garners a Tech
ticket, two gets a General and two plus a scroller wheel gets the
examinee an Extra?

Where do you get that from? I don't think we should reduce theory
standards atall. I just think we need to abolish the code test.

Code test-schmode test...If you want to re-establish some validity
of the
Amateur Radio Service's credibility as a breeding ground for
technically competent licensees, close the written test pools.

That will never happen, however, for one very prominent reason if
no
other...Truth be known that MOST people would never get an Amateur
license because of the WRITTEN test...In it's raw form, it requires
that the applicant actually KNOW something. That requires REAL
learning, not just rote memorization, which is exactly what learning
Morse Code is, and is exactly what the written tests are now.

Element 1 only adds access to about 2.5% of all Amateur
allocations.
Those that really wanted HF priviledges only saw the Code test as a
hurdle...Not a brick wall.

73

Steve, K4YZ







My recollection of hurdles in school sports is mostly of falling over the
bl**dy things, HI!

Alun, N3KIP

Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
From: Alun
Date: 5/8/2004 10:29 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

If one reflects back on the history and demograpics of the Amateur
Radio
Service, there have been those who obtained licensure for a myriad of
reasons, but those who really get in it and stick with it have
recurring central interests...Two types come to mind. First are those
who are facinated by radio for radio's sake...Gadgets.


I don't think I've ever got over my facination with how radio waves bridge
huge distances. It still seems like magic even though I have studied how it
works.

Ditto! And altho I can "work" somone in Australia on the pooter, I liken
it to fishing with hand grenades!...

It takes skill to drop that line in and coax "the big one" onto the hook!

I am the same way with aircraft. I used to live at the junction of two
low-level military training routes in Sequatchie County, Tennessee, and was
routinely treated to impromptu "airshows" courtesy of the United States Air
Force, Navy and Marine Corps. I could hear the "whistling" of the engines
coming up the valley and would run out to catch a glimpse.

When the U.S. was gearing up for Kosovo, B-1B Lancers and F15 Eagles were
regulars along the route.

Most of the "active" folks are the gadget operators and ES types,
so let's
go to where they are rather than wait for them to find us..."Popular
Science" and "Popular Mechanics" magazine..."Journal of Emergency
Medical Services", "Emergency Medical Services", etc etc etc.


Agreed. Mind you, ads in Popular Mecanics are incredibly expensive

I agree, but what price would we pay if we lost Amateur Radio altogether
due to low census? With the dollar-figures the ARRL posts every year they can
afford to put at least one full page ad in those mags per quarter, at least!

Element 1 only adds access to about 2.5% of all Amateur
allocations.
Those that really wanted HF priviledges only saw the Code test as a
hurdle...Not a brick wall.

My recollection of hurdles in school sports is mostly of falling over the
bl**dy things, HI!

Jump higher, Alun! =)

73

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
From: Alun
Date: 5/8/2004 10:29 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

If one reflects back on the history and demograpics of the
Amateur Radio
Service, there have been those who obtained licensure for a myriad of
reasons, but those who really get in it and stick with it have
recurring central interests...Two types come to mind. First are
those who are facinated by radio for radio's sake...Gadgets.


I don't think I've ever got over my facination with how radio waves
bridge huge distances. It still seems like magic even though I have
studied how it works.

Ditto! And altho I can "work" somone in Australia on the pooter,
I liken
it to fishing with hand grenades!...

It takes skill to drop that line in and coax "the big one" onto
the hook!

I am the same way with aircraft. I used to live at the junction
of two
low-level military training routes in Sequatchie County, Tennessee, and
was routinely treated to impromptu "airshows" courtesy of the United
States Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps. I could hear the "whistling"
of the engines coming up the valley and would run out to catch a
glimpse.

When the U.S. was gearing up for Kosovo, B-1B Lancers and F15
Eagles were
regulars along the route.

Most of the "active" folks are the gadget operators and ES
types, so let's
go to where they are rather than wait for them to find us..."Popular
Science" and "Popular Mechanics" magazine..."Journal of Emergency
Medical Services", "Emergency Medical Services", etc etc etc.


Agreed. Mind you, ads in Popular Mecanics are incredibly expensive

I agree, but what price would we pay if we lost Amateur Radio
altogether
due to low census? With the dollar-figures the ARRL posts every year
they can afford to put at least one full page ad in those mags per
quarter, at least!

Element 1 only adds access to about 2.5% of all Amateur
allocations.
Those that really wanted HF priviledges only saw the Code test as a
hurdle...Not a brick wall.

My recollection of hurdles in school sports is mostly of falling over
the bl**dy things, HI!

Jump higher, Alun! =)

73

Steve, K4YZ







I have short legs

Alun wrote:

I have short legs


I'm getting this image of Hank Hill's father.......



- Mike KB3EIA -

Alun wrote in message . ..
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
From: Alun
Date: 5/8/2004 10:29 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

If one reflects back on the history and demograpics of the
Amateur Radio
Service, there have been those who obtained licensure for a myriad of
reasons, but those who really get in it and stick with it have
recurring central interests...Two types come to mind. First are
those who are facinated by radio for radio's sake...Gadgets.


I don't think I've ever got over my facination with how radio waves
bridge huge distances. It still seems like magic even though I have
studied how it works.

Ditto! And altho I can "work" somone in Australia on the pooter,
I liken
it to fishing with hand grenades!...

It takes skill to drop that line in and coax "the big one" onto
the hook!

I am the same way with aircraft. I used to live at the junction
of two
low-level military training routes in Sequatchie County, Tennessee, and
was routinely treated to impromptu "airshows" courtesy of the United
States Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps. I could hear the "whistling"
of the engines coming up the valley and would run out to catch a
glimpse.

When the U.S. was gearing up for Kosovo, B-1B Lancers and F15
Eagles were
regulars along the route.

Most of the "active" folks are the gadget operators and ES
types, so let's
go to where they are rather than wait for them to find us..."Popular
Science" and "Popular Mechanics" magazine..."Journal of Emergency
Medical Services", "Emergency Medical Services", etc etc etc.


Agreed. Mind you, ads in Popular Mecanics are incredibly expensive

I agree, but what price would we pay if we lost Amateur Radio
altogether
due to low census? With the dollar-figures the ARRL posts every year
they can afford to put at least one full page ad in those mags per
quarter, at least!

Element 1 only adds access to about 2.5% of all Amateur
allocations.
Those that really wanted HF priviledges only saw the Code test as a
hurdle...Not a brick wall.

My recollection of hurdles in school sports is mostly of falling over
the bl**dy things, HI!

Jump higher, Alun! =)

73

Steve, K4YZ







I have short legs

You're a tad short in some other respects to . .