Alun wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in news:409ABB0C.C1D993E8
@earthlink.net:

Alun wrote:

I'll grant that 5wpm is relatively easy, but still a lot of work

There's a gaping contradiction buried in there some place.

Not atall. Something doesn't have to be hard to take a long time to do.

Now you've added an additional element. We've gone from "easy" to "a
lot of work" to "long time to do". Something "easy" wouldn't seem to
require either a lot of work or a long time to do.

I have little sympathy for anyone who would claim that learning morse at
a speed of five words per minute is a lot of work or that it requires a
long time to learn.

Dave K8MN

Alun wrote in message . ..
Tony P. wrote in
:

In article , daviesl2003
@aol.com says...
I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I
feel it should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the
HF bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should
not. There should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a
easy one either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 - I'll
be lucky to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.

I didn't find the series of tests difficult at all. The 5WPM and 13WPM
were fairly easy too, as I had time to practice the 5WPM while on a
rainy camping trip. Good thing I brought plenty of batteries and a code
practice tapes.


I'll grant that 5wpm is relatively easy, but still a lot of work

13WPM was gotten by actually working HF with what privileges I had as a
Tech+. From there, up to 20WPM and all done.


I'd say it's a bit harder for those with no interest in using CW

I had no particular interest in the topics covered by probably half
the courses I had to pass to get a degree. But I did pass 'em
(grousing all the way) and the priveleges flowed. The philosophy
behind volume of work invested in learning = volume of privs goes back
at least to the guilds of the early Renaissance.

I think the biggest detriment to testing now is the publication of the
question pools. People can get into the hobby via rote memorization,

True in some instances, but most people don't have photographic memory

which by the way is what schools teach kids, not how to think but how
to memorize.

So over time the hobby is just going to be awash in nitwits,

I don't think so. Not any more than it already is, anyway!

and then
fade away. There are too many other options to communicate.



...which is another issue altogether. The Internet has hit the hobby pretty
hard.

What's your point? Ham radio license tests should be reduced to
passing a test on mouse operations in order for ham radio to compete
with the Internet? Passing a one-button mouse test garners a Tech
ticket, two gets a General and two plus a scroller wheel gets the
examinee an Extra?

w3rv

(Brian Kelly) wrote in
m:

Alun wrote in message
. ..
Tony P. wrote in
:

In article ,
daviesl2003 @aol.com says...
I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I
feel it should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to
the HF bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should
not. There should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a
easy one either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 -
I'll be lucky to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.

I didn't find the series of tests difficult at all. The 5WPM and
13WPM were fairly easy too, as I had time to practice the 5WPM while
on a rainy camping trip. Good thing I brought plenty of batteries
and a code practice tapes.


I'll grant that 5wpm is relatively easy, but still a lot of work

13WPM was gotten by actually working HF with what privileges I had
as a Tech+. From there, up to 20WPM and all done.


I'd say it's a bit harder for those with no interest in using CW

I had no particular interest in the topics covered by probably half
the courses I had to pass to get a degree. But I did pass 'em
(grousing all the way) and the priveleges flowed. The philosophy
behind volume of work invested in learning = volume of privs goes back
at least to the guilds of the early Renaissance.


You would have thought we would have learnt since then, rather than aping
the practices of hundreds of years ago.

I think the biggest detriment to testing now is the publication of
the question pools. People can get into the hobby via rote
memorization,

True in some instances, but most people don't have photographic memory

which by the way is what schools teach kids, not how to think but
how to memorize.

So over time the hobby is just going to be awash in nitwits,

I don't think so. Not any more than it already is, anyway!

and then
fade away. There are too many other options to communicate.



...which is another issue altogether. The Internet has hit the hobby
pretty hard.

What's your point?

My point is that we need to recruit people into the hobby.

Ham radio license tests should be reduced to
passing a test on mouse operations in order for ham radio to compete
with the Internet? Passing a one-button mouse test garners a Tech
ticket, two gets a General and two plus a scroller wheel gets the
examinee an Extra?

w3rv


Where do you get that from? I don't think we should reduce theory standards
atall. I just think we need to abolish the code test.

Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
From: Alun
Date: 5/8/2004 9:38 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in
om:

I had no particular interest in the topics covered by probably half
the courses I had to pass to get a degree. But I did pass 'em
(grousing all the way) and the priveleges flowed. The philosophy
behind volume of work invested in learning = volume of privs goes back
at least to the guilds of the early Renaissance.


You would have thought we would have learnt since then, rather than aping
the practices of hundreds of years ago.

Nope.

You can refer to almost any current career college degree program and
still find curricula loaded with irrelevant and inconsequential "fluff"
courses, no doubt "mandated" for the purpose of keeping the paying student
paying.

What's your point?

My point is that we need to recruit people into the hobby.

If one reflects back on the history and demograpics of the Amateur Radio
Service, there have been those who obtained licensure for a myriad of reasons,
but those who really get in it and stick with it have recurring central
interests...Two types come to mind. First are those who are facinated by radio
for radio's sake...Gadgets.

The other are those who see Amateur Radio as a further means to an
end...public service, emergency services, etc.

Then there are always those "others", ie: husband-wife licensee's who just
want a cheap honey-do connection and nothing else.

Most of the "active" folks are the gadget operators and ES types, so let's
go to where they are rather than wait for them to find us..."Popular Science"
and "Popular Mechanics" magazine..."Journal of Emergency Medical Services",
"Emergency Medical Services", etc etc etc.

I never understood why we put the number of "basic" licensing course ads
we do in Amateur Radio magazines...Most folks who read them are ALREADY
licensed!

Ham radio license tests should be reduced to
passing a test on mouse operations in order for ham radio to compete
with the Internet? Passing a one-button mouse test garners a Tech
ticket, two gets a General and two plus a scroller wheel gets the
examinee an Extra?

Where do you get that from? I don't think we should reduce theory standards
atall. I just think we need to abolish the code test.

Code test-schmode test...If you want to re-establish some validity of the
Amateur Radio Service's credibility as a breeding ground for technically
competent licensees, close the written test pools.

That will never happen, however, for one very prominent reason if no
other...Truth be known that MOST people would never get an Amateur license
because of the WRITTEN test...In it's raw form, it requires that the applicant
actually KNOW something. That requires REAL learning, not just rote
memorization, which is exactly what learning Morse Code is, and is exactly what
the written tests are now.

Element 1 only adds access to about 2.5% of all Amateur allocations.
Those that really wanted HF priviledges only saw the Code test as a
hurdle...Not a brick wall.

73

Steve, K4YZ

"Lloyd Davies - The Time Lord " wrote in message
...
I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I feel
it
should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the HF bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should not.
There
should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a easy one either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 - I'll be
lucky
to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.


Lloyd Davies - Time Lord and Talk show host
"On the Domestic Front"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/domesticfront/

This subject has been discussed, cussed, chopped up, thrown about for the
last 20 years. Enough is enough.

Anyway Llllllloooooooyyyyyyyydddddd no one gives a crap what you think.

Dan/W4NTI

Anyway Llllllloooooooyyyyyyyydddddd no one gives a crap what you think.


Hey Dan, nice to see we are still freinds. LOL.

Seriously, I have left you alone. Why can't you just let me post my opinions?
I made no personal attack on you with this post. Just for that, expect to see
more and more of me in this newsgroup.

Bye bye -


Lloyd Davies - Time Lord and Talk show host
"On the Domestic Front"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/domesticfront/

"Lloyd Davies - The Time Lord " wrote in message
...
Anyway Llllllloooooooyyyyyyyydddddd no one gives a crap what you think.


Hey Dan, nice to see we are still freinds. LOL.

Seriously, I have left you alone. Why can't you just let me post my
opinions?
I made no personal attack on you with this post. Just for that, expect
to see
more and more of me in this newsgroup.

Bye bye -

I guess its just that I think your a puke. Nice hearing from you again.

Bye Bye

Dan/W4NTI

I guess its just that I think your a puke.

(Dr Phil mode on )

Why do you think Lloyd is a puke?
(Dr Phil mode off )



Lloyd Davies - Time Lord and Talk show host
"On the Domestic Front"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/domesticfront/

Lloyd,

It is already headed that way. Ummmm K1MAN? 14.313? 75 meters?

As far as a test, methinks that when an 8 year old can pass the extra, it is
time to rethink exactly what we want. Certainly, it isn't, nor should it
be, a test that might well be appropriate for a college student. That said,
it appears headed towards a bonus question (worth 50 points). Spell your
name and address properly, and they add 50 points. Starting with 50 points
(assuming most folks can spell their name and address properly), most folks
could randomly select answers and have a fair chance of passing. Of course,
someone will complain that if they can't read and write, they should simply
mark their 'X' and get the 50 points. Someone else can read the questions
and they can guess - and still have a good chance of passing.

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

"Lloyd Davies - The Time Lord " wrote in message
...
I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I feel
it
should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the HF bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should not.
There
should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a easy one either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 - I'll be
lucky
to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.


Lloyd Davies - Time Lord and Talk show host
"On the Domestic Front"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/domesticfront/


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It is already headed that way. Ummmm K1MAN? 14.313? 75 meters?


Yes man I know that, but does'nt that blow a hole for those folks who code to
stay as a filter?


Lloyd Davies - Time Lord and Talk show host
"On the Domestic Front"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/domesticfront/