Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
 

I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I feel it
should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the HF bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should not. There
should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a easy one either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 - I'll be lucky
to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.


Lloyd Davies - Time Lord and Talk show host
"On the Domestic Front"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/domesticfront/

(Lloyd Davies - The Time Lord ) wrote in
:

I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I
feel it should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the HF
bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should not.
There should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a easy one
either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 - I'll
be lucky to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.


Lloyd Davies - Time Lord and Talk show host
"On the Domestic Front"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/domesticfront/


The ITU requirement for a code test was dropped on July 5th, 2003, so
evidently a majority around the world agree with you. I think the FCC will
drop it, but they move at a snail's pace. I didn't think it would survive
for as long as a year after it was no longer needed, but it's only nine
months so far, so I could still be right.

"Alun" wrote in message
...
I didn't think it would survive
for as long as a year after it was no longer needed, but it's only nine
months so far, so I could still be right.

I don't know, Alun. I'd wager that more than a few PCTA's have made their
feelings felt to the FCC and, more importantly, to their local elected
representatives. (Some of whom have a say re. the FCC's bugdet.) Perhaps it
might be more than a year...much more.

73 de Bert
WA2SI

In article , daviesl2003
@aol.com says...
I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I feel it
should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the HF bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should not. There
should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a easy one either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 - I'll be lucky
to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.

I didn't find the series of tests difficult at all. The 5WPM and 13WPM
were fairly easy too, as I had time to practice the 5WPM while on a
rainy camping trip. Good thing I brought plenty of batteries and a code
practice tapes.

13WPM was gotten by actually working HF with what privileges I had as a
Tech+. From there, up to 20WPM and all done.

I think the biggest detriment to testing now is the publication of the
question pools. People can get into the hobby via rote memorization,
which by the way is what schools teach kids, not how to think but how to
memorize.

So over time the hobby is just going to be awash in nitwits, and then
fade away. There are too many other options to communicate.

On Thu, 06 May 2004 22:34:54 +1000, Barry OGrady wrote:

I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I feel it
should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the HF bands.

It's not! I have full access to all HF amateur bands without a lick of morse.

You, sir, have that only by virtue of being licensed by some
Administration other than the U.S. Federal Communications
Commission.

It is the latter's licensing policy that is under discussion here.

But you knew that all along, didn't you?

Don't tease the bears...... ggg

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

"Phil Kane" wrote in
et:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 22:34:54 +1000, Barry OGrady wrote:

I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I
feel it should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the
HF bands.

It's not! I have full access to all HF amateur bands without a lick of
morse.

You, sir, have that only by virtue of being licensed by some
Administration other than the U.S. Federal Communications
Commission.

It is the latter's licensing policy that is under discussion here.

But you knew that all along, didn't you?

Don't tease the bears...... ggg

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon




I'd say it's still relevant. Lots of countries have now abolished the code
test, since the international requirement went away last July. What
problems have been reported as a result? None, of course. So that is proof
that it isn't necessary.

Tony P. wrote in
:

In article , daviesl2003
@aol.com says...
I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I
feel it should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the
HF bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should
not. There should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a
easy one either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 - I'll
be lucky to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.

I didn't find the series of tests difficult at all. The 5WPM and 13WPM
were fairly easy too, as I had time to practice the 5WPM while on a
rainy camping trip. Good thing I brought plenty of batteries and a code
practice tapes.


I'll grant that 5wpm is relatively easy, but still a lot of work

13WPM was gotten by actually working HF with what privileges I had as a
Tech+. From there, up to 20WPM and all done.


I'd say it's a bit harder for those with no interest in using CW

I think the biggest detriment to testing now is the publication of the
question pools. People can get into the hobby via rote memorization,

True in some instances, but most people don't have photographic memory

which by the way is what schools teach kids, not how to think but how
to memorize.

So over time the hobby is just going to be awash in nitwits,

I don't think so. Not any more than it already is, anyway!

and then
fade away. There are too many other options to communicate.



....which is another issue altogether. The Internet has hit the hobby pretty
hard.

"Lloyd Davies - The Time Lord " wrote in message
...
I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I feel
it
should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the HF bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should not.
There
should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a easy one either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 - I'll be
lucky
to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.


Lloyd Davies - Time Lord and Talk show host
"On the Domestic Front"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/domesticfront/

This subject has been discussed, cussed, chopped up, thrown about for the
last 20 years. Enough is enough.

Anyway Llllllloooooooyyyyyyyydddddd no one gives a crap what you think.

Dan/W4NTI

"Bert Craig" wrote in message
.net...
"Alun" wrote in message
...
I didn't think it would survive
for as long as a year after it was no longer needed, but it's only nine
months so far, so I could still be right.

I don't know, Alun. I'd wager that more than a few PCTA's have made their
feelings felt to the FCC and, more importantly, to their local elected
representatives. (Some of whom have a say re. the FCC's bugdet.) Perhaps
it
might be more than a year...much more.

73 de Bert
WA2SI


If the FCC goes along with the ARRL proposal, which it looks like they will.
Then CW will be here for the Extra class for the next generation or so.
After that everyone will be dead and the grandkids will be liked to the
internet at birth with bio implants.

Dan/W4NTI

"Barry OGrady" wrote in message
...
On 06 May 2004 04:03:56 GMT, (Lloyd Davies - The Time
Lord ) wrote:

I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I feel
it
should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the HF bands.

It's not! I have full access to all HF amateur bands without a lick of
morse.


-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.

Must be a Frenchman, Belgium, or a Kraut.

All a bunch of whinning losers.

Dan/W4NTI

"Alun" wrote in message
...
"Phil Kane" wrote in
et:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 22:34:54 +1000, Barry OGrady wrote:

I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I
feel it should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the
HF bands.

It's not! I have full access to all HF amateur bands without a lick of
morse.

You, sir, have that only by virtue of being licensed by some
Administration other than the U.S. Federal Communications
Commission.

It is the latter's licensing policy that is under discussion here.

But you knew that all along, didn't you?

Don't tease the bears...... ggg

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon




I'd say it's still relevant. Lots of countries have now abolished the code
test, since the international requirement went away last July. What
problems have been reported as a result? None, of course. So that is proof
that it isn't necessary.

The only problem is to those that don't learn Morse Code. They can now
officially say they are half a ham.

Dan/W4NTI

Alun wrote:

I'll grant that 5wpm is relatively easy, but still a lot of work

There's a gaping contradiction buried in there some place.

Dave K8MN

Lloyd,

It is already headed that way. Ummmm K1MAN? 14.313? 75 meters?

As far as a test, methinks that when an 8 year old can pass the extra, it is
time to rethink exactly what we want. Certainly, it isn't, nor should it
be, a test that might well be appropriate for a college student. That said,
it appears headed towards a bonus question (worth 50 points). Spell your
name and address properly, and they add 50 points. Starting with 50 points
(assuming most folks can spell their name and address properly), most folks
could randomly select answers and have a fair chance of passing. Of course,
someone will complain that if they can't read and write, they should simply
mark their 'X' and get the 50 points. Someone else can read the questions
and they can guess - and still have a good chance of passing.

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

"Lloyd Davies - The Time Lord " wrote in message
...
I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I feel
it
should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the HF bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should not.
There
should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a easy one either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 - I'll be
lucky
to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.


Lloyd Davies - Time Lord and Talk show host
"On the Domestic Front"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/domesticfront/


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.678 / Virus Database: 440 - Release Date: 5/6/04

On Thu, 06 May 2004 22:12:59 GMT, "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this
mindspring.com wrote:

snip


-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.

Must be a Frenchman, Belgium, or a Kraut.

The '.au' in Barry's Internet address kinda localizes him to
Australia......not Austria.....


All a bunch of whinning losers.

Dan/W4NTI

73, Leo

The ITU requirement for a code test was dropped on July 5th, 2003, so
evidently a majority around the world agree with you. I think the FCC will
drop it, but they move at a snail's pace. I didn't think it would survive
for as long as a year after it was no longer needed, but it's only nine
months so far, so I could still be right.


Likely the FCC brearucracy just hasn't gotten around to it yet. They
have bigger fish to
fry, and will likely get to it when there's nothing better to do.

The only problem is to those that don't learn Morse Code. They can now
officially say they are half a ham.



Has there been any trouble attribatable to a "non-code" ham fumbling
with code on the
bands? As long as he's not QRMing anyone, other hams will likely
"elmer" him so he
will become more proficinent. This would be a good use of the old
Novice subbands.
By gentlemens' agreements, designate s few frequencies as training
grounds for code
beginners. Not everyone can make it to a code class.

Dave Heil wrote in news:409ABB0C.C1D993E8
@earthlink.net:

Alun wrote:

I'll grant that 5wpm is relatively easy, but still a lot of work

There's a gaping contradiction buried in there some place.

Dave K8MN


Not atall. Something doesn't have to be hard to take a long time to do.

Robert Casey wrote in
:






The ITU requirement for a code test was dropped on July 5th, 2003, so
evidently a majority around the world agree with you. I think the FCC
will drop it, but they move at a snail's pace. I didn't think it would
survive for as long as a year after it was no longer needed, but it's
only nine months so far, so I could still be right.


Likely the FCC brearucracy just hasn't gotten around to it yet. They
have bigger fish to
fry, and will likely get to it when there's nothing better to do.



Sad but true. You only have to look at their home page to see where we are
in their priorities, i.e. not even on their radar atall.

Alun wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in news:409ABB0C.C1D993E8
@earthlink.net:

Alun wrote:

I'll grant that 5wpm is relatively easy, but still a lot of work

There's a gaping contradiction buried in there some place.

Not atall. Something doesn't have to be hard to take a long time to do.

Now you've added an additional element. We've gone from "easy" to "a
lot of work" to "long time to do". Something "easy" wouldn't seem to
require either a lot of work or a long time to do.

I have little sympathy for anyone who would claim that learning morse at
a speed of five words per minute is a lot of work or that it requires a
long time to learn.

Dave K8MN

Alun wrote in message . ..
Tony P. wrote in
:

In article , daviesl2003
@aol.com says...
I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I
feel it should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the
HF bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should
not. There should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a
easy one either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 - I'll
be lucky to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.

I didn't find the series of tests difficult at all. The 5WPM and 13WPM
were fairly easy too, as I had time to practice the 5WPM while on a
rainy camping trip. Good thing I brought plenty of batteries and a code
practice tapes.


I'll grant that 5wpm is relatively easy, but still a lot of work

13WPM was gotten by actually working HF with what privileges I had as a
Tech+. From there, up to 20WPM and all done.


I'd say it's a bit harder for those with no interest in using CW

I had no particular interest in the topics covered by probably half
the courses I had to pass to get a degree. But I did pass 'em
(grousing all the way) and the priveleges flowed. The philosophy
behind volume of work invested in learning = volume of privs goes back
at least to the guilds of the early Renaissance.

I think the biggest detriment to testing now is the publication of the
question pools. People can get into the hobby via rote memorization,

True in some instances, but most people don't have photographic memory

which by the way is what schools teach kids, not how to think but how
to memorize.

So over time the hobby is just going to be awash in nitwits,

I don't think so. Not any more than it already is, anyway!

and then
fade away. There are too many other options to communicate.



...which is another issue altogether. The Internet has hit the hobby pretty
hard.

What's your point? Ham radio license tests should be reduced to
passing a test on mouse operations in order for ham radio to compete
with the Internet? Passing a one-button mouse test garners a Tech
ticket, two gets a General and two plus a scroller wheel gets the
examinee an Extra?

w3rv

Alun wrote in message .. .
(Lloyd Davies - The Time Lord ) wrote in
:

I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I
feel it should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the HF
bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should not.
There should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a easy one
either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 - I'll
be lucky to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.


Lloyd Davies - Time Lord and Talk show host
"On the Domestic Front"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/domesticfront/


The ITU requirement for a code test was dropped on July 5th, 2003, so
evidently a majority around the world agree with you.

A majority of the world's governments that bothered to attend and vote
on the issue.

And all they did was change the rules so each country can decide for
itself what is required - just like the written test.

Although a suggested standard for written tests was added at the same
WRC, it's really more of a suggestion than anything else. Countries
can have wide-ranging interpretations of what's "needed". For example,
do you think ol' JY1 and his family had to sit for written and code
exams that were equivalent to what US or UK hams had to pass for the
same privileges? Or do you think the US writtens compare with, say,
those in the UK?

If I'm not mistaken, getting a license in some countries *requires*
successful completion of an approved training course. (I know the
"Foundation" license has this requirement). Doesn't matter if someone
is a Ph.D. in EE, they have to attend and pass the ham radio classes
to get the license - even though such courses are not part of any
treaty and not required in many other countries.

Imagine the reaction here in the USA if the code test were dropped
*and* getting a license required attendance at an approved ham radio
training course. Not a "one day wonder" course such as was recently
the subject of an article on the ARRL website ("Is Your License Class
Efficient" or some such title), but rather a multisession course with
quizzes and a final test that were not from a published pool.

Point is, just because it's not in the treaty anymore doesn't mean all
countries will or should drop it.

I think the FCC will
drop it, but they move at a snail's pace.

They're busy with other things. And perhaps they don't see what all
the fuss is about. After all, we're talking about a 5 wpm code test
that can be passed in a number of ways, with all sorts of adaptations
and accomodations (tone, volume, headphones, typewriter, flashing
light, Farnsworth, etc.) Add to this the fact that today there are
training aids undreamed of in the past - most of them free or quite
inexpensive.

I didn't think it would survive
for as long as a year after it was no longer needed, but it's only nine
months so far, so I could still be right.

I think you meant 'no longer required by treaty'. Whether something is
needed as a license requirement is purely a matter of opinion.

It's been ten months and two days since WRC-2003 ended, and given
FCC's method of handling the issue it may well be another ten months
before we even get to the NPRM stage.

Most of all, note that the 2000 restructuring did not result in lots
of new hams, even though the requirements for all classes of license
were lowered and the whole structure simplified.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Leo" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 May 2004 22:12:59 GMT, "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this
mindspring.com wrote:

snip


-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.

Must be a Frenchman, Belgium, or a Kraut.

The '.au' in Barry's Internet address kinda localizes him to
Australia......not Austria.....


All a bunch of whinning losers.

Dan/W4NTI

73, Leo

Your right Leo. I didn't check it out. You see I am more interested in
putting down LLLlllllloooooyyyyyydddddd whenever I can.

Dan/W4NTI

"Barry OGrady" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 May 2004 22:12:59 GMT, "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this
mindspring.com wrote:


"Barry OGrady" wrote in message
.. .
On 06 May 2004 04:03:56 GMT, (Lloyd Davies - The
Time
Lord ) wrote:

I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I
feel
it
should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the HF bands.

It's not! I have full access to all HF amateur bands without a lick of
morse.


-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.

Must be a Frenchman, Belgium, or a Kraut.

No. I'm a whining aussie.

All a bunch of whinning losers.

We are losers of the morse requirement.

Dan/W4NTI


-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.

I should have know so Barry. My problem is when I knew the Aussies they
were real men. You know....had a set of them. Good ole boys, could
outdrink the Queen anyday. Were men of there word. Took the ears and
passed them around at mess for all to see.

What ever happened to the real Aussies?

Dan/W4NTI

"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...





The only problem is to those that don't learn Morse Code. They can now
officially say they are half a ham.



Has there been any trouble attribatable to a "non-code" ham fumbling
with code on the
bands? As long as he's not QRMing anyone, other hams will likely
"elmer" him so he
will become more proficinent. This would be a good use of the old
Novice subbands.
By gentlemens' agreements, designate s few frequencies as training
grounds for code
beginners. Not everyone can make it to a code class.

I don't know where its from but I am hearing a lot more phone activity in
the CW bands of late. And not speaking Spanish. English. But who knows.

As for the use of the Novice sub bands. You really should keep more up to
date. The FCC has a proposal out right now to delete them and extend the
phone bands. And guess what? I agree with it.

Dan/W4NTI

Real hams do it with continous wave.

Dave Heil wrote in message ...

I have little sympathy for anyone who would claim that learning morse at
a speed of five words per minute is a lot of work or that it requires a
long time to learn.

Dave K8MN

Your sympathy was not solicited, and it or the lack of it doesn't
change the fact that for many, learning code at 5wpm is difficult and
takes a long time to learn. The real pity are all of the 20WPM
Code-Tape Extras that have never used code.

Anyway Llllllloooooooyyyyyyyydddddd no one gives a crap what you think.


Hey Dan, nice to see we are still freinds. LOL.

Seriously, I have left you alone. Why can't you just let me post my opinions?
I made no personal attack on you with this post. Just for that, expect to see
more and more of me in this newsgroup.

Bye bye -


Lloyd Davies - Time Lord and Talk show host
"On the Domestic Front"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/domesticfront/

It is already headed that way. Ummmm K1MAN? 14.313? 75 meters?


Yes man I know that, but does'nt that blow a hole for those folks who code to
stay as a filter?


Lloyd Davies - Time Lord and Talk show host
"On the Domestic Front"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/domesticfront/

Dave Heil wrote in
:

Alun wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in news:409ABB0C.C1D993E8
@earthlink.net:

Alun wrote:

I'll grant that 5wpm is relatively easy, but still a lot of work

There's a gaping contradiction buried in there some place.

Not atall. Something doesn't have to be hard to take a long time to do.

Now you've added an additional element. We've gone from "easy" to "a
lot of work" to "long time to do". Something "easy" wouldn't seem to
require either a lot of work or a long time to do.

Why not? I don't see any contradiction. For example, bricklaying is easy,
but how long would it take you to build the Great Wall of China? In any
case, I only said relatively easy, by which I meant it is below the speed
at which you can no longer copy individual dits and dahs, which was a
barrier to a lot of people..


I have little sympathy for anyone who would claim that learning morse at
a speed of five words per minute is a lot of work or that it requires a
long time to learn.

Dave K8MN


That's the trouble with this whole debate. It isn't uniformly difficult for
different people.

Barry OGrady wrote in
:

On Thu, 06 May 2004 22:12:59 GMT, "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this
mindspring.com wrote:


"Barry OGrady" wrote in message
. ..
On 06 May 2004 04:03:56 GMT, (Lloyd Davies - The
Time Lord ) wrote:

I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I
feel it should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the
HF bands.

It's not! I have full access to all HF amateur bands without a lick
of morse.


-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.

Must be a Frenchman, Belgium, or a Kraut.

No. I'm a whining aussie.

All a bunch of whinning losers.

We are losers of the morse requirement.

That's the best sort of loser to be


Dan/W4NTI


-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.

(N2EY) wrote in
om:

Alun wrote in message
.. .
(Lloyd Davies - The Time Lord ) wrote in
:

I think that since Morse Code is old, but not completely useless, I
feel it should no longer be made to be learned to gain access to the
HF bands.

Do I feel that Amateur Radio be made a free for all? No, it should
not. There should be a test, but not a really hard test, but not a
easy one either.

I'll even admit, I'll never get a new Icom 7800, at $10,000.00 -
I'll be lucky to maybe get a used 706 at about 400 or 500 or so.


Lloyd Davies - Time Lord and Talk show host
"On the Domestic Front"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/domesticfront/


The ITU requirement for a code test was dropped on July 5th, 2003, so
evidently a majority around the world agree with you.

A majority of the world's governments that bothered to attend and vote
on the issue.

And all they did was change the rules so each country can decide for
itself what is required - just like the written test.

Although a suggested standard for written tests was added at the same
WRC, it's really more of a suggestion than anything else. Countries
can have wide-ranging interpretations of what's "needed". For example,
do you think ol' JY1 and his family had to sit for written and code
exams that were equivalent to what US or UK hams had to pass for the
same privileges? Or do you think the US writtens compare with, say,
those in the UK?

If I'm not mistaken, getting a license in some countries *requires*
successful completion of an approved training course. (I know the
"Foundation" license has this requirement). Doesn't matter if someone
is a Ph.D. in EE, they have to attend and pass the ham radio classes
to get the license - even though such courses are not part of any
treaty and not required in many other countries.

Actually, they only have to do the practical assesments, it's not necessary
to attend the course.


Imagine the reaction here in the USA if the code test were dropped
*and* getting a license required attendance at an approved ham radio
training course. Not a "one day wonder" course such as was recently
the subject of an article on the ARRL website ("Is Your License Class
Efficient" or some such title), but rather a multisession course with
quizzes and a final test that were not from a published pool.

Point is, just because it's not in the treaty anymore doesn't mean all
countries will or should drop it.

I think the FCC will drop it, but they move at a snail's pace.

They're busy with other things. And perhaps they don't see what all
the fuss is about. After all, we're talking about a 5 wpm code test
that can be passed in a number of ways, with all sorts of adaptations
and accomodations (tone, volume, headphones, typewriter, flashing
light, Farnsworth, etc.) Add to this the fact that today there are
training aids undreamed of in the past - most of them free or quite
inexpensive.


I doubt if they even think about any of that

I didn't think it would survive
for as long as a year after it was no longer needed, but it's only
nine months so far, so I could still be right.

I think you meant 'no longer required by treaty'. Whether something is
needed as a license requirement is purely a matter of opinion.


I meant both, since I agree with the FCC that it was only needed because of
the treaty

It's been ten months and two days since WRC-2003 ended, and given
FCC's method of handling the issue it may well be another ten months
before we even get to the NPRM stage.


That may be, although I still think it will be earlier than that. How do we
stand with the pool, BTW?

Most of all, note that the 2000 restructuring did not result in lots
of new hams, even though the requirements for all classes of license
were lowered and the whole structure simplified.

73 de Jim, N2EY


I think abolishing the code test will remove a block in the system, but
won't have much effect unless we actively do something to recruit new hams.
I don't really see much of that happening right now.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
From: Alun
Date: 5/8/2004 9:30 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

That would be me. Not just tapes, in fact I didn't find tapes to be a good
method of learning, but I've never attached a key to a rig. What was the
point of me learning 20wpm?

Uhhhhhhhhhh....passing Element 1C...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
From: Alun
Date: 5/8/2004 9:38 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in
om:

I had no particular interest in the topics covered by probably half
the courses I had to pass to get a degree. But I did pass 'em
(grousing all the way) and the priveleges flowed. The philosophy
behind volume of work invested in learning = volume of privs goes back
at least to the guilds of the early Renaissance.


You would have thought we would have learnt since then, rather than aping
the practices of hundreds of years ago.

Nope.

You can refer to almost any current career college degree program and
still find curricula loaded with irrelevant and inconsequential "fluff"
courses, no doubt "mandated" for the purpose of keeping the paying student
paying.

What's your point?

My point is that we need to recruit people into the hobby.

If one reflects back on the history and demograpics of the Amateur Radio
Service, there have been those who obtained licensure for a myriad of reasons,
but those who really get in it and stick with it have recurring central
interests...Two types come to mind. First are those who are facinated by radio
for radio's sake...Gadgets.

The other are those who see Amateur Radio as a further means to an
end...public service, emergency services, etc.

Then there are always those "others", ie: husband-wife licensee's who just
want a cheap honey-do connection and nothing else.

Most of the "active" folks are the gadget operators and ES types, so let's
go to where they are rather than wait for them to find us..."Popular Science"
and "Popular Mechanics" magazine..."Journal of Emergency Medical Services",
"Emergency Medical Services", etc etc etc.

I never understood why we put the number of "basic" licensing course ads
we do in Amateur Radio magazines...Most folks who read them are ALREADY
licensed!

Ham radio license tests should be reduced to
passing a test on mouse operations in order for ham radio to compete
with the Internet? Passing a one-button mouse test garners a Tech
ticket, two gets a General and two plus a scroller wheel gets the
examinee an Extra?

Where do you get that from? I don't think we should reduce theory standards
atall. I just think we need to abolish the code test.

Code test-schmode test...If you want to re-establish some validity of the
Amateur Radio Service's credibility as a breeding ground for technically
competent licensees, close the written test pools.

That will never happen, however, for one very prominent reason if no
other...Truth be known that MOST people would never get an Amateur license
because of the WRITTEN test...In it's raw form, it requires that the applicant
actually KNOW something. That requires REAL learning, not just rote
memorization, which is exactly what learning Morse Code is, and is exactly what
the written tests are now.

Element 1 only adds access to about 2.5% of all Amateur allocations.
Those that really wanted HF priviledges only saw the Code test as a
hurdle...Not a brick wall.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
From: Alun
Date: 5/8/2004 10:21 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
From: Alun
Date: 5/8/2004 9:30 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

That would be me. Not just tapes, in fact I didn't find tapes to be a
good method of learning, but I've never attached a key to a rig. What
was the point of me learning 20wpm?

Uhhhhhhhhhh....passing Element 1C...?!?!

So let me rephrase that. Why should I have had to pass 1C to get the bottom
ends of the phone subbands? Actually, that's where the DX used to be, but
it seems to have moved up to avoid the 'hernia nets' that now seem to
occupy that spectrum.

Because at the time that was what was required to pass the level of
licensure you sought.

Obviously you WANTED that level of licensure because you did what you had
to do and got over it. The benefits outweighed the effort to obtain them.

How many people "want" to be doctors, airline pilots, bankers, etc, but
never get there because of the amount of education or training it takes to get
there?

Yes, some are hindered by financial or other "real world" hurdles, but
then too there are hundreds of stories of people who worked two-three
jobs...weathered divorces...single parenthood...etc and overcame those hurdles
to get what they wanted.

It's all a matter of what you want as opposed to what you're willing to do
to get it.

As for the "hernia nets", they aren't a factor for me...I don't find folks
who are predisposed to discussing thier gastrointestinal dysfunctions below the
phone subbands.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
From: Alun
Date: 5/8/2004 10:29 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

If one reflects back on the history and demograpics of the Amateur
Radio
Service, there have been those who obtained licensure for a myriad of
reasons, but those who really get in it and stick with it have
recurring central interests...Two types come to mind. First are those
who are facinated by radio for radio's sake...Gadgets.


I don't think I've ever got over my facination with how radio waves bridge
huge distances. It still seems like magic even though I have studied how it
works.

Ditto! And altho I can "work" somone in Australia on the pooter, I liken
it to fishing with hand grenades!...

It takes skill to drop that line in and coax "the big one" onto the hook!

I am the same way with aircraft. I used to live at the junction of two
low-level military training routes in Sequatchie County, Tennessee, and was
routinely treated to impromptu "airshows" courtesy of the United States Air
Force, Navy and Marine Corps. I could hear the "whistling" of the engines
coming up the valley and would run out to catch a glimpse.

When the U.S. was gearing up for Kosovo, B-1B Lancers and F15 Eagles were
regulars along the route.

Most of the "active" folks are the gadget operators and ES types,
so let's
go to where they are rather than wait for them to find us..."Popular
Science" and "Popular Mechanics" magazine..."Journal of Emergency
Medical Services", "Emergency Medical Services", etc etc etc.


Agreed. Mind you, ads in Popular Mecanics are incredibly expensive

I agree, but what price would we pay if we lost Amateur Radio altogether
due to low census? With the dollar-figures the ARRL posts every year they can
afford to put at least one full page ad in those mags per quarter, at least!

Element 1 only adds access to about 2.5% of all Amateur
allocations.
Those that really wanted HF priviledges only saw the Code test as a
hurdle...Not a brick wall.

My recollection of hurdles in school sports is mostly of falling over the
bl**dy things, HI!

Jump higher, Alun! =)

73

Steve, K4YZ

Alun wrote:
Dave Heil wrote in
:


Alun wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in news:409ABB0C.C1D993E8
:


Alun wrote:


I'll grant that 5wpm is relatively easy, but still a lot of work

There's a gaping contradiction buried in there some place.



Not atall. Something doesn't have to be hard to take a long time to do.

Now you've added an additional element. We've gone from "easy" to "a
lot of work" to "long time to do". Something "easy" wouldn't seem to
require either a lot of work or a long time to do.


Why not? I don't see any contradiction. For example, bricklaying is easy,
but how long would it take you to build the Great Wall of China? In any
case, I only said relatively easy, by which I meant it is below the speed
at which you can no longer copy individual dits and dahs, which was a
barrier to a lot of people..


I have little sympathy for anyone who would claim that learning morse at
a speed of five words per minute is a lot of work or that it requires a
long time to learn.

Dave K8MN



That's the trouble with this whole debate. It isn't uniformly difficult for
different people.

Excellent point, Alun. Every once in a while, I have to remind the
folks that *do* find it easy that their experience is not everyone's.
It took me 6 months of every day practice to get to 5 wpm. And I flunked
the first element 1 test I took.

I am now getting close to 13 wpm, but it depends on how my ears are
behaving on any particular day. On good days I can do it, but if I'm
tired or stressed, I'm back to 5 wpm in a heartbeat.

This second effort has been another roughly three month effort - this
hasn't quite been every day though.

I'm neither lazy, stupid or unmotivated.

Interesting to think that under the old system, I would only just
possibly be a General, and yet under the new, I am an Extra.

Considering that my main interests are the digital modes for my
everyday hamming, I would probably not be anything at all, since I would
have been years learning.

- Mike KB3EIA -