In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
[snip]

I also don't want some idiot running 200 watts into a 5/8 wave groundplane
on 2 meters next door to me. He may be ignorant, but I am not.

And what is to stop a tech from doing so? (as long as he/she does the RF
exposure analysis ... which will probably show that it's just fine from the
RF exposure standpoint ...)

Jim, your class elitism/prejudice is showing - why don't you stop acting
like all techs are dimwits? Many are more technically accomplished than
many extras.

Carl,

Please read the thread from the beginning to see the context of the comments.
Note the claims and tone of the person who started the thread.

Jim is *supporting* the idea of meaningful written tests for all - including
the entry-level license, whatever it is.

He is not saying all or even some techs are "dimwits" - just that we need
appropriate technical testing in place.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
[snip]

I also don't want some idiot running 200 watts into a 5/8 wave groundplane
on 2 meters next door to me. He may be ignorant, but I am not.


And what is to stop a tech from doing so? (as long as he/she does the RF
exposure analysis ... which will probably show that it's just fine from the
RF exposure standpoint ...)

Jim, your class elitism/prejudice is showing - why don't you stop acting
like all techs are dimwits? Many are more technically accomplished than
many extras.


I think you are pulling this out of context, Carl. The original poster
said that (paraphrasing here) the people opposed to the upgrade are
wrong in part because the Technician and General tests are nearly identical.

Oddly enough, in a later post that same poster went on to note how many
Tower questions there are on the Tech test, yet not on the General test
- a seeming contradiction for nearly identical tests.

I am a "new" Ham, having taken all my tests in modern times. There are
significan differences between the Technician test and the General test
and the Extra test.

Jim was merely supporting adequate testing. As do I. Of course there is
a wide gap in what people consider adequate.

I know I do not consider the Technician test adequate to be classed as
a General. And I doubt I'll ever apologize for thinking that knowledge
is good.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message ...
Yes, I and can see a lot of 2 meter gear being sold/modified for use -
where?

I personally see no need for Morse, but do have a concern about the
continuing movement to reduce technical requirements.

There is virtually no difference between the current General and
Technician written exams.

This would include
grandfathering techs to general. Folks have been killed trying to erect
towers.

That's funny... there are 11 questions in the Technician question pool
on TOWER SAFETY... and there are 0 questions in the General question
pool.

Perhaps everyone believes that if you have a license you actually
know something.

Apparently, recent Technicians know MORE than recent Generals, in
regards to your litmus test issue of TOWER SAFETY.

- Stewart
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MURS-OPEN

steward wrote:
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message ...

Yes, I and can see a lot of 2 meter gear being sold/modified for use -
where?

I personally see no need for Morse, but do have a concern about the
continuing movement to reduce technical requirements.


There is virtually no difference between the current General and
Technician written exams.

I took both. You are wrong.



This would include
grandfathering techs to general. Folks have been killed trying to erect
towers.


That's funny... there are 11 questions in the Technician question pool
on TOWER SAFETY... and there are 0 questions in the General question
pool.

Technicians have towers too. And a general has taken the Technician
test, so they got the info.



Perhaps everyone believes that if you have a license you actually
know something.


Apparently, recent Technicians know MORE than recent Generals, in
regards to your litmus test issue of TOWER SAFETY.

Litmus tests, dams breaking? WTH, mate?


- Mike KB3EIA -

"stewart" wrote

There is virtually no difference between the current General and
Technician written exams.


That's funny... there are 11 questions in the Technician question pool
on TOWER SAFETY... and there are 0 questions in the General question
pool.

Perhaps everyone believes that if you have a license you actually
know something.

Apparently, recent Technicians know MORE than recent Generals, in
regards to your litmus test issue of TOWER SAFETY.



Uh, don't look now, but each new recent General has to first take the
enty level Technician examination. Since tower safety is a basic
requirement for any class operator it is tested on the basic test.
Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to ask the same questions on both
tests, so the General examination does not repeat the same material.
Kinda puts the lie to your assertion about "virtually no difference"
though, doesn't it!

With all kind regards,

de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message link.net...
"stewart" wrote

There is virtually no difference between the current General and
Technician written exams.


That's funny... there are 11 questions in the Technician question pool
on TOWER SAFETY... and there are 0 questions in the General question
pool.

Perhaps everyone believes that if you have a license you actually
know something.

Apparently, recent Technicians know MORE than recent Generals, in
regards to your litmus test issue of TOWER SAFETY.



Uh, don't look now, but each new recent General has to first take the
enty level Technician examination. Since tower safety is a basic
requirement for any class operator it is tested on the basic test.
Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to ask the same questions on both
tests, so the General examination does not repeat the same material.
Kinda puts the lie to your assertion about "virtually no difference"
though, doesn't it!


With all kind regards,

de Hans, K0HB

Still fighting the LOSING battle with non-logic, I see.

Man! Don't you fools have ANYTHING better to do with your lives?

Don't look now, but there's only a few of you left... progress WILL be made.

- Stewart
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MURS-OPEN

stewart wrote:
"KØHB" wrote in message link.net...

"stewart" wrote

There is virtually no difference between the current General and
Technician written exams.


That's funny... there are 11 questions in the Technician question pool
on TOWER SAFETY... and there are 0 questions in the General question
pool.


Perhaps everyone believes that if you have a license you actually
know something.

Apparently, recent Technicians know MORE than recent Generals, in
regards to your litmus test issue of TOWER SAFETY.



Uh, don't look now, but each new recent General has to first take the
enty level Technician examination. Since tower safety is a basic
requirement for any class operator it is tested on the basic test.
Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to ask the same questions on both
tests, so the General examination does not repeat the same material.
Kinda puts the lie to your assertion about "virtually no difference"
though, doesn't it!



With all kind regards,

de Hans, K0HB


Still fighting the LOSING battle with non-logic, I see.

What Hans said was not only logical, but 100 percent correct. I took a
Technician's exam, then I took a General exam, then I took an Extra
exam. All three were needed to get to Extra. And the tests were quite
different.





Man! Don't you fools have ANYTHING better to do with your lives?

And yet you come in here and argue with us. Welcome to the fold.



Don't look now, but there's only a few of you left... progress WILL be made.

Your progress is defined as what? Progress for me is increased knowledge
and improved skills, while for you it appears to be allowing Technician
tested people to have what were once General tested priveliges.

In article ,
(stewart) writes:

de Hans, K0HB

Still fighting the LOSING battle with non-logic, I see.

Man! Don't you fools have ANYTHING better to do with your lives?

They are absolutely RIGHT (whether or not they are). :-)

That MUST be expressed on everyone's screens so as not to
make any mistake as to who is "boss" in a newsgroup. :-)

Don't look now, but there's only a few of you left... progress WILL be made.

There are others waiting in the wings to take their place... :-)


"Mankind invented language to satisfy his need to complain." - Anon.

LHA / WMD

Subject: The dam is leaking...
From: (stewart)
Date: 6/2/2004 3:15 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

"KØHB" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"stewart" wrote

There is virtually no difference between the current General and
Technician written exams.


That's funny... there are 11 questions in the Technician question pool
on TOWER SAFETY... and there are 0 questions in the General question
pool.

Perhaps everyone believes that if you have a license you actually
know something.

Apparently, recent Technicians know MORE than recent Generals, in
regards to your litmus test issue of TOWER SAFETY.



Uh, don't look now, but each new recent General has to first take the
enty level Technician examination. Since tower safety is a basic
requirement for any class operator it is tested on the basic test.
Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to ask the same questions on both
tests, so the General examination does not repeat the same material.
Kinda puts the lie to your assertion about "virtually no difference"
though, doesn't it!


With all kind regards,

de Hans, K0HB

Still fighting the LOSING battle with non-logic, I see.

Man! Don't you fools have ANYTHING better to do with your lives?

Don't look now, but there's only a few of you left... progress WILL be made.


"Losing battle with "non-logic"...?!?!

You're the flaming idiot that wants to populate the 70cm band with kiddie
channels, and NOW it appears that you you have absolutely NO understanding of
the current licensing/testing structure, yet you are making assinine assertions
in a public forum about it.

There's a "non-logic" here, alright, Teaze, and it has to do with why a
person would make such idiotic statements in the face of evidence to the
contrary...?!?!

Go back to your VHF CB group. It's where you belong...All five channels
of it.

Steve, K4YZ

"stewart" wrote in message
om...
"KØHB" wrote in message
link.net...
"stewart" wrote

There is virtually no difference between the current General and
Technician written exams.


That's funny... there are 11 questions in the Technician question pool
on TOWER SAFETY... and there are 0 questions in the General question
pool.

Perhaps everyone believes that if you have a license you actually
know something.

Apparently, recent Technicians know MORE than recent Generals, in
regards to your litmus test issue of TOWER SAFETY.



Uh, don't look now, but each new recent General has to first take the
enty level Technician examination. Since tower safety is a basic
requirement for any class operator it is tested on the basic test.
Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to ask the same questions on both
tests, so the General examination does not repeat the same material.
Kinda puts the lie to your assertion about "virtually no difference"
though, doesn't it!


With all kind regards,

de Hans, K0HB

Still fighting the LOSING battle with non-logic, I see.

Man! Don't you fools have ANYTHING better to do with your lives?

Don't look now, but there's only a few of you left... progress WILL be
made.

- Stewart
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MURS-OPEN

Hello, Stewart

Ok, let me pose a simple question for you. Assume you have a base and a
mobile MURS station. Both have very good antennas and you have a minimum 10
mile solid range of communications. You are talking to your wife. She is 7
miles away from you. 11 miles away, another mobile MURS station comes over
a hill and is now in your range. He has a base station 8 miles further away
that you can't hear. He is using the same channel that you and your wife
are using. He is running a 5/8 wave on his car. Oh, and he is using a
modified 50 watt 2 meter rig (both at his base and in his car).

Do the math. He can be on the opposite side of you from your wife in the
mobile. His electric field is 5 times your wife's (and likely at least
twice yours). Can we spell "capture effect"? Without extensive f layer
propogation that exists on 11 meters at times, these problems won't become
apparent until there are more MURS users and even then, most of the problem
will be in urban areas .... but .... meanwhile, you won't be able to
communicate with your wife (most likely).

I darn well think that amateurs should be tested in at least basic rules and
safety for an entry level class license. I tend to get nervous when I see
questions about SWR and coax lengths from amateur extra class licenses.

As far as the old timers wasting their time, there is one older guy around
here whose repeaters won't go down easily. One is windmill powered; the
other is solar powered. Then there are a *ton* of others in his system.
All interconnected and cover 10 meters to 1.2 GHz.

We have lives beyond both this newsgroup and Morse code


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



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