Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

I guess you told me, Len.

Say goodnight, Dave...

" ", Len added.

Dave K8MN

William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 6/23/2004 12:13 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

You hate Amateur Radio and Amateur Radio licensees. That's blatantly
obvious.

No. Amateur radio is a fine hobby, interesting, a fine recreation
with great technological learning capabilities.

Aside from hearsay or SWLing, how would you know, Leonard?

Heil, you've done that schtick already. It doesn't apply. It
doesn't work. Give up on that ploy.

It isn't schtick and it is no ploy, Leonard.

If some kid, assuming that he is above the age which you believe should
be the minimum for amateur radio licensing, comes to you and says, "What
can you tell me about amateur radio, Mr. Anderson?", the best you'll be
able to do is tell him that you heard from a friend that amateur radio
is....
or that you read in a book that amateur radio is...

You're shucking and jiving, Leonard.

Dave K8MN

Interesting.

I think so.

I think so.

I once said that a prospective ham almost had to know a
ham to become a ham.

I don't recall that.

There's that famous Heil selective memory at work. Next thing you
know you'll forget all about those out of band Frenchmen on 6 meters.

I know this'll come as a real disappointment to you, "William", but I
don't hang on your every word. I have only so much space available for
mental storage and I like to reserve it for the really important
matters.

Then you guys set upon me like the pack of wild
dogs that you are...

Which "you guys" would that be?

PCTA. Know any?

I know several. Are you telling us that everyone who is for morse
testing and who posts here "set upon you like a pack of wild dogs" and
that everyone who is for morse testing and who posts here is a part of a
pack of wild dogs? I don't believe you.

...telling me of acts of heroism...

Acts of heroism? I don't believe you.

Yup. And because they display bravery and heroism in the face of the
old-timey exams and examiners, all who wish to enter the Kingdom must
also face those same exams and examiners.

The above is a perfect example of why I don't hang on your every word.
It isn't factual and is certainly less than memorable.

But since those old-timey
exams and examiners have gone away, all the new hammies are just not
worthy. Common theme throughout R.R.A.P.

Did you figure out that end-fed antenna yet?

how you got the book
and read it and went down to the steely-eyed fcc examiner and became a
ham. No sir! No help from no one.

Novice exams weren't taken in front of any FCC examiner, much less a
stelly-eyed examiner.

Steely-eyed.

K8CFT wasn't steely-eyed at all. SK W8MN sparked
my interest in becoming a ham but he couldn't learn the theory for me
and I'd moved to a different town by the time I began practicing morse
to increase my speed.

So you knew hams prior to being licensed. That fits my story. So
what are you disagreeing with now?

Re-read the exchange above and get back to me.

So Len could tell the kid to get a book.

Oh, he wouldn't likely do that. He'd go into one of his Foghorn Lenhorn
pontifications.

Or he could drag out a box of out of band QSL cards...

Any amateur radio QSLs Len could produce would be either "out of band"
or would belong to someone else.

Which according to your
comment above, a book just isn't going to give sufficient information
to be able to answer questions about amateur radio.

A book can provide information to an extent.

A book can provide everything needed to become an amateur.

No good golfer became one
by reading a book. No good fisherman became one by reading a book.

Would you like to add a few more non-radio related categories to your
list?

No, but I'd like you to take my list as a whole because it illustrates
precisely the idea that I'm attempting to convey.

No good radio op became one by reading a book.

Now you wish to qualify your statement with the word, "good," and
change the subject matter from amateur radio operator to
undifferentiated radio operator.

You can add the word "amateur" before radio and the meaning is still the
same.

You have substantially changed the subject matter. Previously, the
subject was a young, unlicensed person wanted to know about Amateur
Radio. Have it your way.

Actually, you have done so. You have Len suggesting a book. The fact
is, Len has no practical experience in amateur radio.

One can become licensed in amateur radio simply by reading a -single-
book and taking an exam. Unless you are saying that those PCTA's who
told me so are liars.

You're quite right. Someone can pass an exam and become a radio amateur.
Absent practice and experience, that person can be a complete lid.

Practice and experience are the keys.

Of course, now that you've substantially changed the subject.

Not really, Brian. You have Len suggesting a book.

Len has neither.

Above you say, "No good radio op became one by reading a book." You
don't differentiate between amateur radio operators and military radio
operators. Using your changed subject matter, Len has plenty of book
reading, training, practice, and experience. I might add that he also
has formal education in the subject matter.

So Len is a good golfer?

You guys play both ends against the middle, and now that you've worked
down to the middle, your arguments fail because they are
contradictory. Go argue with yourself. You, K8MN, are shucking and
jiving.

I'd say that they appear contradictory to you, "William", because you
don't fully understand them.

Of course. Heil knows all. He is the very definition of Omniscient.

How would you know that unless you are (no cap necessary) omniscient?

And all others are ignorant.

Not at all. I've made no such statement. We have on occasion, found
some areas where you have exhibited ignorance.

"You don't need a former military weatherman to know which way the wind
blows"

Apparently, you do. I'd suggest you stop ****ing in the wind.

One of my favorite country song titles, yet to be recorded:
"If I Had It To Do All Over Again, I'd Do It All Over You".

Dave K8MN

William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 6/22/2004 4:26 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Poor nursie. Never been involved with the larger world of radio,
only other amateurs and posturing, always FIGHTING. I've
been in the larger world of radio for half a century. Radio is not
a magical mystery to me nor is communications of any sort by
visual or audible means,

Why does it always have to be about you, Len?

It could be about your forgetfulness, but then there wouldn't be much
discussion, would there?

No, there wouldn't. I'm not all that forgetful.

Radio amateurs are free
to seek out information about the "larger world of radio" in any number
of venues.

And Len disagrees?

Do you actually read any of the material before posting a reply?

You ought to take it up with Steve as he refuses to seek out
information about the "larger world of radio," specifically MARS in
which he claims to be a participant.

Do you actually read any of the material before posting a reply?
"Free to" does not equate to "forced to".

Many radio amateurs have been or are participants in the
"larger world of radio".

One in particular also participates in MARS and CAP communications,
but apparently has never been trained. He cannot differentiate
between the Amateur Service and MARS, repeatedly backing his statement
that "MARS IS Amateur Radio."

Without amateur radio ops, there'd be no MARS program.

Hi, hi!

What are you, OSCAR I?

If you'd like to impress us, obtain an amateur
radio license of any class and regale us with those tales.

What tales?

Read the material, "William".

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 6/22/2004 4:26 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Poor nursie. Never been involved with the larger world of radio,
only other amateurs and posturing, always FIGHTING. I've
been in the larger world of radio for half a century. Radio is not
a magical mystery to me nor is communications of any sort by
visual or audible means,

Why does it always have to be about you, Len?

It could be about your forgetfulness, but then there wouldn't be much
discussion, would there?

No, there wouldn't. I'm not all that forgetful.

Big Dave not remember this be public forum, all see messages.

Why Dave continue to talk about me? I no talk about me here.

Dave have obsessive-compulsive dysfunction, too? Nusie have
that. Spreading to all PCTA. May be terminal.


Radio amateurs are free
to seek out information about the "larger world of radio" in any number
of venues.

And Len disagrees?

Do you actually read any of the material before posting a reply?

Big Dave get "Ham Radio for Dummies" yet?


You ought to take it up with Steve as he refuses to seek out
information about the "larger world of radio," specifically MARS in
which he claims to be a participant.

Do you actually read any of the material before posting a reply?
"Free to" does not equate to "forced to".

Big Dave have vision problem? He pick nits alla time.

Dave the nit-picker. "Metaphors be with him." :-)

Many radio amateurs have been or are participants in the
"larger world of radio".

One in particular also participates in MARS and CAP communications,
but apparently has never been trained. He cannot differentiate
between the Amateur Service and MARS, repeatedly backing his statement
that "MARS IS Amateur Radio."

Without amateur radio ops, there'd be no MARS program.

Big Dave not read DoD Directive 4650.2 (eff. 21 Nov 03).

Big Dave not read of Grecial Firebolt.

MARS work fine by itself. Proved. MARS be military
radio service.

Hi, hi!

What are you, OSCAR I?

Big Dave be Oscar Hammernail II?

If you'd like to impress us, obtain an amateur
radio license of any class and regale us with those tales.

What tales?

Read the material, "William".

Read DoD Directive 4650.2, Big Dave. DoD define MARS.

ARRL not define MARS. FCC not define MARS.

Big Dave be outer-spaced again. Needs more O-two.

Temper fry...

LHA / WMD

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,

(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 6/23/2004 12:13 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

You hate Amateur Radio and Amateur Radio licensees.
That's blatantly
obvious.

No. Amateur radio is a fine hobby, interesting, a fine
recreation
with great technological learning capabilities.

Aside from hearsay or SWLing, how would you know, Leonard?

Heil, you've done that schtick already. It doesn't apply. It
doesn't work. Give up on that ploy.

It isn't schtick and it is no ploy, Leonard.

If some kid, assuming that he is above the age which you believe
should
be the minimum for amateur radio licensing, comes to you and says,
"What
can you tell me about amateur radio, Mr. Anderson?", the best you'll
be
able to do is tell him that you heard from a friend that amateur
radio
is....
or that you read in a book that amateur radio is...

You're shucking and jiving, Leonard.

Dave K8MN

Interesting.

I think so.

I think so.

I once said that a prospective ham almost had to know a
ham to become a ham.

I don't recall that.

There's that famous Heil selective memory at work. Next thing you
know you'll forget all about those out of band Frenchmen on 6 meters.

I know this'll come as a real disappointment to you, "William", but I
don't hang on your every word.

Big Dave manage to hang hisself by his OWN words! :-)

I have only so much space available for
mental storage and I like to reserve it for the really important
matters.

Riiiiight. For song titles "yet to be published."

Are ASCAP and BMI chomping at the bit on that? Or have
they been bit. :-)

Then you guys set upon me like the pack of wild
dogs that you are...

Which "you guys" would that be?

PCTA. Know any?

I know several. Are you telling us that everyone who is for morse
testing and who posts here "set upon you like a pack of wild dogs" and
that everyone who is for morse testing and who posts here is a part of a
pack of wild dogs? I don't believe you.

"Use the metaphors, Luke, the metaphors."

May the metaphors be with you, Luke Skyhawker.

Big Dave be lissen to nursie too much...

...telling me of acts of heroism...

Acts of heroism? I don't believe you.

Yup. And because they display bravery and heroism in the face of the
old-timey exams and examiners, all who wish to enter the Kingdom must
also face those same exams and examiners.

The above is a perfect example of why I don't hang on your every word.
It isn't factual and is certainly less than memorable.

Big Dave not see "hostile action" outside of newsgroup?

Tsk.

But since those old-timey
exams and examiners have gone away, all the new hammies are just not
worthy. Common theme throughout R.R.A.P.

Did you figure out that end-fed antenna yet?

Big Dave feed his end too much?

how you got the book
and read it and went down to the steely-eyed fcc examiner and became a
ham. No sir! No help from no one.

Novice exams weren't taken in front of any FCC examiner, much less a
stelly-eyed examiner.

Steely-eyed.

K8CFT wasn't steely-eyed at all. SK W8MN sparked
my interest in becoming a ham but he couldn't learn the theory for me
and I'd moved to a different town by the time I began practicing morse
to increase my speed.

So you knew hams prior to being licensed. That fits my story. So
what are you disagreeing with now?

Re-read the exchange above and get back to me.

Why? Big Dave no understand it? Tsk.

So Len could tell the kid to get a book.

Oh, he wouldn't likely do that. He'd go into one of his Foghorn Lenhorn
pontifications.

Or he could drag out a box of out of band QSL cards...

Any amateur radio QSLs Len could produce would be either "out of band"
or would belong to someone else.

This sub-thread NOT about me.

Why Big Dave want to concentrate on personal attacks?

Which according to your
comment above, a book just isn't going to give sufficient information
to be able to answer questions about amateur radio.

A book can provide information to an extent.

A book can provide everything needed to become an amateur.

No good golfer became one
by reading a book. No good fisherman became one by reading a book.

Would you like to add a few more non-radio related categories to your
list?

No, but I'd like you to take my list as a whole because it illustrates
precisely the idea that I'm attempting to convey.

Attempt failed. Try again. :-)

Hint: "Use the metaphors, Luke." :-)

No good radio op became one by reading a book.

Now you wish to qualify your statement with the word, "good," and
change the subject matter from amateur radio operator to
undifferentiated radio operator.

You can add the word "amateur" before radio and the meaning is still the
same.

"Amateur amateur radio operator" oxymoron.

Valve open your cannula, Big Dave...O-two not enough there.

You have substantially changed the subject matter. Previously, the
subject was a young, unlicensed person wanted to know about Amateur
Radio. Have it your way.

Actually, you have done so. You have Len suggesting a book. The fact
is, Len has no practical experience in amateur radio.

Riiiight...all newcomers to ham radio MUST have "practical
experience" BEFORE getting ham license! :-)

All newcomers thus become illegal. :-)


One can become licensed in amateur radio simply by reading a -single-
book and taking an exam. Unless you are saying that those PCTA's who
told me so are liars.

You're quite right. Someone can pass an exam and become a radio amateur.
Absent practice and experience, that person can be a complete lid.

Riiiiight...close all lids on amateur radio! Nothing open!

Practice and experience are the keys.

Of course, now that you've substantially changed the subject.

Not really, Brian. You have Len suggesting a book.

What's wrong with "Ham Radio for Dummies?" :-)

This looks like ready reading audience for same...

Len has neither.

Above you say, "No good radio op became one by reading a book." You
don't differentiate between amateur radio operators and military radio
operators. Using your changed subject matter, Len has plenty of book
reading, training, practice, and experience. I might add that he also
has formal education in the subject matter.

So Len is a good golfer?

Why are you always referring to me? You obsessed with civilians,
mighty amateur? Tsk.

BTW...I used to shoot in the low 80s until the club made me
give up my firearms...


You guys play both ends against the middle, and now that you've worked
down to the middle, your arguments fail because they are
contradictory. Go argue with yourself. You, K8MN, are shucking and
jiving.

I'd say that they appear contradictory to you, "William", because you
don't fully understand them.

Of course. Heil knows all. He is the very definition of Omniscient.

How would you know that unless you are (no cap necessary) omniscient?

Heil know everything. He tell others he do. Redefines computer
terms, knows all about software defined radios. Godlike. Gods
are all omniscient. Very smart too.

And all others are ignorant.

Not at all. I've made no such statement. We have on occasion, found
some areas where you have exhibited ignorance.

Ignorance be capital crime in hum radio?

Hum radio be closed to lids.

Etc.

"You don't need a former military weatherman to know which way the wind
blows"

Apparently, you do. I'd suggest you stop ****ing in the wind.

One of my favorite country song titles, yet to be recorded:
"If I Had It To Do All Over Again, I'd Do It All Over You".

Big Dave already **** in wind.

Very unsanitary. Not couth. Vulgar.

Clean up and say good night, Dave.

Temper fry...

LHA / WMD

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

[he might find out that there's been
an electronics world definition of "software" and "firmware" and
"hardware" for over three decades...but never saw it in QST so
therefore doesn't apply]

I provided a definition from several sources, even providing the urls so
you could confirm those definitions on your own. You continue to argue
the point in the face of cold, hard fact. You're simply wrong, Bozoo.

Riiiiight. Big Dave be long-time computerist, hardware expert,
yarns and yarns of experience in digital stuff. Knows all, sees all,
can tell ACM to go stuff it. :-)

Heil wastes everyone's time. :-)

You aren't everyone and you have nothing but time.

Why Big Dave talk allatime on personalities? :-)

Is this Insult Fest newsgrope or about hum radio policy?

Say goodnight, Dave.

Temper fry...

LHA / WMD

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Why does it always have to be about you, Len?

About "me?!?"

Yeah, Len, about you. Why'd you snip the crud about your vast
experience?

Snip what?

Heil is ****ing in the wind in here...

Herr Robust getting adalpated again. Too many oriongasms?

Who is "Herr Robust"?

A fignewton of your imagination, complete with monocle.

Nursie all obsessed with hating me...has to bring me up in
usual barf messages nearly all the time.

Are you getting as bad as nursie? [if so, get help pronto...]

Who is "Nursie"?

Nursie be da gunnery nurse, superham and hero of "seven
hostile actions." Someplace, at some time.

Radio amateurs are free
to seek out information about the "larger world of radio" in any number
of venues.

Feel free. So, when are you going to do that?

Probably after you get your "Extra right out of the box".

I have extra boxes. Nothing in there for Heil. Except air.

Heil have much air.

Many radio amateurs have been or are participants in the
"larger world of radio".

I've worked with some of those longer than herr robust has
been a ham.

Wonderful. Now if you'd only been a ham as long as I've been a ham...

Well, that must mean you are cured. Or well-preserved.

You have an FDA stamping?

They not behave like Big Dave, the officious pompous
authoritity figure telling all what to do and how to do it.

You must have me confused with yourself, Big Len. You're all
officious. You're certainly pompous and long-winded and you've spent
years here attempting to outline how amateur radio should be regulated.
Fact is, you have nothing to do with amateur radio.

Poor Heil, not with FCC. Not with ARRL BoD. BooHoo.

Puff, puff, puff is der Oberst. Air. Hot. Much.

If you'd like to impress us, obtain an amateur
radio license of any class and regale us with those tales.

"Impressing" big dave is NOT in my life's plan. :-)

Then you'll likely want to knock off the countless retellings of your
fifty years experience in whatever.

This is talking of years of personal existance?

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Only seems like "countless" to all readers of
Heil's "foreign service" duries on rediscovering the superiority
of morse goad in his last years.

Big Dave can only be impressed by looking at his own image
in a mirror. :-)

I beg to differ. I'm impressed by a great many people, both famous and
unknown. You didn't make the list.

Not a list anyone wants to be on... :-)

Now you go ahead and chew those Guinea-Bisseau cashews and
keep working them out-of-band Frenchmen. That's a good boy.

Say goodnight, Dave.

Temper fry...

LHA / WMD

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 6/24/2004 6:54 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

The POINT, Your Junior Putziness, is that Lennie doesn't HAVE the
experience to help the kid OTHER than the theory part.

"Amateur radio WORKS DIFFERENT that all other radio services!"

Right..."amateur electrons" instead of commercial ones. Uh huh.

Poor nursie...thinks the FCC can regulate Laws of Physics too!

In your rush to try and make more of your own "newsgroup messaging points",
you tripped right over the part where I said "...OTHER than the theory
part."...

Oh well.

Speaking of which...

You created this "newsgroup messaging points" farce, yet have never
availed us with the scoring system.

What's up with that?

That was a rhetorical question, by the way...WE all know you are deeply
"into" not finishing ANYthing...

Maybe that's why there were never any Mini-Lennie's for you to nurture and
gain some practical experience upon which to base your "there ought to be an
age limit" suggestion for Amateur Radio...?!?!

Yet ANOTHER unaccomplished task.

Steve, K4YZ

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

just doesn't understand my original purpose about amateur
radio policy.

Say, Len - for those of us who have only gotten online since 1997....

what is/was your "original purpose about amateur radio policy"?

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 6/23/2004 12:13 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

You hate Amateur Radio and Amateur Radio licensees. That's blatantly
obvious.

No. Amateur radio is a fine hobby, interesting, a fine recreation
with great technological learning capabilities.

Aside from hearsay or SWLing, how would you know, Leonard?

Heil, you've done that schtick already. It doesn't apply. It
doesn't work. Give up on that ploy.

It isn't schtick and it is no ploy, Leonard.

If some kid, assuming that he is above the age which you believe should
be the minimum for amateur radio licensing, comes to you and says, "What
can you tell me about amateur radio, Mr. Anderson?", the best you'll be
able to do is tell him that you heard from a friend that amateur radio
is....
or that you read in a book that amateur radio is...

You're shucking and jiving, Leonard.

Dave K8MN

Interesting.

I think so.

I think so.

I once said that a prospective ham almost had to know a
ham to become a ham.

I don't recall that.

There's that famous Heil selective memory at work. Next thing you
know you'll forget all about those out of band Frenchmen on 6 meters.

I know this'll come as a real disappointment to you, "William", but I
don't hang on your every word. I have only so much space available for
mental storage and I like to reserve it for the really important
matters.

Just don't forget that the world's greatest DXer worked out of band
frenchmen on 6 meters, and if he had to do it over again, he would.

The second part is memorable.

Then you guys set upon me like the pack of wild
dogs that you are...

Which "you guys" would that be?

PCTA. Know any?

I know several. Are you telling us that everyone who is for morse
testing and who posts here "set upon you like a pack of wild dogs" and
that everyone who is for morse testing and who posts here is a part of a
pack of wild dogs? I don't believe you.

If you disagree, you've had years to correct it. But instead, the
PCTA give each other passes all day long. Hell, after six years of
idiotic posts from Bruce, the Rev Jim finally got cornered and had to
agree that Bruce was an idiot and his postings were abusive.

...telling me of acts of heroism...

Acts of heroism? I don't believe you.

Yup. And because they display bravery and heroism in the face of the
old-timey exams and examiners, all who wish to enter the Kingdom must
also face those same exams and examiners.

The above is a perfect example of why I don't hang on your every word.
It isn't factual and is certainly less than memorable.

You'd work the out of band Frenchmen if you had to do it over again.

But since those old-timey
exams and examiners have gone away, all the new hammies are just not
worthy. Common theme throughout R.R.A.P.

Did you figure out that end-fed antenna yet?

I think you're telling me I'm not worthy. Are you?

how you got the book
and read it and went down to the steely-eyed fcc examiner and became a
ham. No sir! No help from no one.

Novice exams weren't taken in front of any FCC examiner, much less a
stelly-eyed examiner.

Steely-eyed.

K8CFT wasn't steely-eyed at all. SK W8MN sparked
my interest in becoming a ham but he couldn't learn the theory for me
and I'd moved to a different town by the time I began practicing morse
to increase my speed.

So you knew hams prior to being licensed. That fits my story. So
what are you disagreeing with now?

Re-read the exchange above and get back to me.

You knew two hams prior to being licensed.

So Len could tell the kid to get a book.

Oh, he wouldn't likely do that. He'd go into one of his Foghorn Lenhorn
pontifications.

Or he could drag out a box of out of band QSL cards...

Any amateur radio QSLs Len could produce would be either "out of band"
or would belong to someone else.

So you and Len do have something in common. Now maybe you can treat
each other as human beings.

Which according to your
comment above, a book just isn't going to give sufficient information
to be able to answer questions about amateur radio.

A book can provide information to an extent.

A book can provide everything needed to become an amateur.

No good golfer became one
by reading a book. No good fisherman became one by reading a book.

Would you like to add a few more non-radio related categories to your
list?

No, but I'd like you to take my list as a whole because it illustrates
precisely the idea that I'm attempting to convey.

Perhaps Steven Hawking read a book about basketball.

No good radio op became one by reading a book.

Now you wish to qualify your statement with the word, "good," and
change the subject matter from amateur radio operator to
undifferentiated radio operator.

You can add the word "amateur" before radio and the meaning is still the
same.

They all became good radio ops by sarting with a book.

You have substantially changed the subject matter. Previously, the
subject was a young, unlicensed person wanted to know about Amateur
Radio. Have it your way.

Actually, you have done so. You have Len suggesting a book. The fact
is, Len has no practical experience in amateur radio.

Ooops. You forgot to remove the word "amateur" from your statement.

Len has plenty of experience.

One can become licensed in amateur radio simply by reading a -single-
book and taking an exam. Unless you are saying that those PCTA's who
told me so are liars.

You're quite right. Someone can pass an exam and become a radio amateur.
Absent practice and experience, that person can be a complete lid.

Even the most learned of amateurs may find himself working out of band
Frenchmen on 6 meters. The shame of it is that he could have learned
something from it, but didn't.

Practice and experience are the keys.

Of course, now that you've substantially changed the subject.

Not really, Brian. You have Len suggesting a book.

insert snippet from above
--------------
If some kid, assuming that he is above the age which you believe should
be the minimum for amateur radio licensing, comes to you and says, "What
can you tell me about amateur radio, Mr. Anderson?", the best you'll be
able to do is tell him that you heard from a friend that amateur radio
is....
or that you read in a book that amateur radio is...

You're shucking and jiving, Leonard.
--------------

It would appear that you took the book idea and ran with it.

Len has neither.

Above you say, "No good radio op became one by reading a book." You
don't differentiate between amateur radio operators and military radio
operators. Using your changed subject matter, Len has plenty of book
reading, training, practice, and experience. I might add that he also
has formal education in the subject matter.

So Len is a good golfer?

Dunno? Did Len read a golfing book?

I wonder why there are so many golfing books written and sold?

You guys play both ends against the middle, and now that you've worked
down to the middle, your arguments fail because they are
contradictory. Go argue with yourself. You, K8MN, are shucking and
jiving.

I'd say that they appear contradictory to you, "William", because you
don't fully understand them.

Of course. Heil knows all. He is the very definition of Omniscient.

How would you know that unless you are (no cap necessary) omniscient?

I should have said that you are "The Omniscient!"

And all others are ignorant.

Not at all. I've made no such statement. We have on occasion, found
some areas where you have exhibited ignorance.

Natch.

"You don't need a former military weatherman to know which way the wind
blows"

Apparently, you do. I'd suggest you stop ****ing in the wind.

One of my favorite country song titles, yet to be recorded:
"If I Had It To Do All Over Again, I'd Do It All Over You".

Sounds like a tune by "Slim Chance and the Crying Cowboys." ;^)