"William" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
Yes,

We got rid of Nixon. Now we need to dump Bush.

Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

Nixon resigned.

We impeached Clinton because he didn't have the decency to resign.

Nixon resigned after his friends on Capitol Hill told him they couldn't
muster enough votes to avoid throwing him out of office. End of story.

Clinton was not removed from office. What Clinton did was terrible to his
wife and daughter, but what damage to the country (other than a major
distraction) did it do? Are you so naive as to think that this huge deficit
Bush is running won't hurt us? Already some want to reduce social security
more. It isn't that social security is broke (and it appears to be in a bit
better shape than they thought, but as good jobs disappear and are replaced
by near minimum-wage jobs, I wouldn't bet); it is that the federal
government has tapped the funds and issued IOUs to social security. They
don't want to pay back money to the folks that need it the most. Rob from
the poor and give to the rich.

Go figure; make $1,000,000 on the stock market and you only pay $150,000 in
tax (15%). Now, go get a $60,000 a year job and see what you pay in taxes.
Don't forget that over 7.5% social security tax you pay (and my pension is
reduced slightly due to my employer's social security contribution.
Retirement based on income above the tax base results in higher percentage
payment.) when you figure your tax load.

Well, we finally got our high-speed ferry here in Rochester. Like all other
high-profile projects (the new soccer stadium, the baseball stadium), the
owners paid *far* less than they were originally supposed to. The taxpayers
picked up the tab. Now we pay for security here, but Canada won't pay over
there. Net result, before the first outing, prices were raised on vehicles
and occupants as the ferry operator had to pay for security in Canada. Now,
yesterday, we found out that for some reason the ferry folks got to take
over most of the paved parking in a *public* park close to the ferry. I
wonder why, since they raised the cost per vehicle. A *public* park, but in
those spaces, they charge you $5.00 per day to park.

Where are all of the whiners that complain about welfare? Oh, I forgot;
that doesn't apply to *corporate* welfare.

Compassionate conservative *IS* an oxymoron. I don't need any more idiots
in Washington running *huge* deficits to benefit the rich.


Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim



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"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
...

Well keep in mind that the utility companies will have to go before the
state's public utilities commision and get their approval to raise
electric
rates to pay for internet. This could be a hard sell.

That's OK. I'm just as tired of folks blaming "conservatives" for the
world's ills. It cuts both ways. Both groups have had good ideas and bad
ideas.

Again they will have to have the approval of the state's public utility
commission and this could be difficult in some states. Just as people are
unwilling to step up to the cost of cable modems, etc for high speed
access,
they will be just as irate or even more irate at proposals to increase
electric rates.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Hello, Dee

I will absolutely agree with you that the sword cuts both ways. I am so
*darn* tired of someone saying something and everyone jumping up and down
and clapping their hands, whether BPL or weapons of mass destruction. Some
argue that it is just the old hams that are fighting BPL. My problem is
that just because the power company says it isn't interfering with anyone
doesn't make that gospel.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



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N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:


In article , JJ
writes:



Now we will see if the FCC will abide by their own part 15 rules and
shut BPL down until when/if the problem is fixed. Anyone want to bet
they don't?



No.


I think/hope what will really kill BPL is economics. It simply won't be
able to compete with DSL, cable and other technologies.


So many times in history, Ideology has chosen to ignore everything but
that ideology's belief. That is one of the reasons that idealogs hate
science.


Yep.

They also choose to ignore the past, which is why they also hate history. You
see this in their cries of "Luddite" and "we're in a new era now" and "stop
living in the past".


As absurd as it may seem, the BPL push is part of current ideology.


Part of *some people's* current ideology.

And it may be more of a question of expediency than ideology.

The recent boom-dot-bust mess hit a lot of folks hard. While the economy slowly
recovers and unemployment drops, a lot of good (read "manufacturing jobs with
decent pay and benefits") jobs are being replaced by "service economy" jobs
(read "do you want fries with that?").

C'mon, Jim! Burger flippin' is going to be moved from "service" to
"manufacturing"

With the election only months away, the incumbents want to be seen as doing and
supporting things that will result in more "good" jobs and start another
technoboom. The reality won't hit for at least a year, at which time it can be
blamed on the "liberals" and the "antenna huggers" and such.

Repeat after me:

All problems are the fault of Liberals...
All problems are the fault of Liberals....
All problems are the fault of Liberals...

It's great. As long as you can blame everything on the dreaded liberal,
you are absolved of any blame yourself. I personally know perhaps 1500
people. Maybe only 5 or 6 are actual Liberals. And no one that thinks
like they do has been running the show in a long time. How did they get
such power to make all the problems in the world?


As such, as long as the current ideology is in place, BPL WILL HAPPEN!


It's already in service at a few sites. The direct result of people wanting
"less regulation" and "get the government off our backs".

Actually, it's just a different group making the regulations. The
golden rule, as it were.

Once
it comes up against science and laws of nature, as well as the
marketplace, it will quite simply fail.


I hope so.

Hey, just to insert something good into this depressing topic, Mike
Melville has been tapped to pilot Burt Rutan's SpaceshipOne tomorrow at
0630 PDT. If successful and he reaches suborbital flight, this will be
just about as cool an event as I've seen in years.

CNN is covering the event. Dunno why Fox isn't. Seems like private
spaceflight would be right up their alley. Maybe Burt is a Leeberal? ;^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Dee D. Flint wrote:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...

In article ,

(Steve

Robeson K4CAP) writes:


Subject: BPL - UPLC -Repeat the lie three times and claim it for

truth

From: "John Anderson"
Date: 6/19/2004 7:52 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: qd5Bc.119983$3x.87399@attbi_s54


"N2EY" wrote in message
...

I think/hope what will really kill BPL is economics. It simply won't

be

able to compete with DSL, cable and other technologies.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Bush appointed Powell, lets boot Bush, replace him with anyone who will

work

for the people, not the rich corporations!

And replace him with who? John Kerry?

Why not?



Very simple reason why not. According to liberals, cheap internet access
(remember it was Gore who "invented the internet" according to his own
statements)


Produce those statements Dee. Show me that quote!

Or do you just repeat what you are told?

In case you want something other than NeoCon Propaganda What he said
was that:

"during my service in the United States Congress, I took the
initiative in creating the Internet".

Gore was instrumental along with other Congressmen and perhaps women in
paving the way for the internet as we know it today. Within the context
of the interview, the message was clear enough. Unfortunately, *some*
members of the (liberal?) press chose to not only take it out of
context, but deliberately misquoted him.

Suggesting Gore saying that he "invented the internet" is very, very
inaccurate.


is a right so Kerry could be expected to push BPL even harder
than Bush. After all the government should decide what is best for everyone
and amateurs are too small a minority to watch out for. Economic reality be
damned as far as the liberals are concerned.

Are liberals anyone that disagrees with the present administration?
People bandy that word about with such abandon that I'd like to examine it.

I like the idea that the government that governs least governs best. I
like the ability to have and express my own opinion. I like the ability
to get rich if I desire (or at least attempt to) I believe that all
people should know that they are expected to be contributing members of
society, and if they plan on being lazy and don't want to work for a
living, as far as I am concerned, they can exist off what private
charity gives them or else they are welcome to crawl off in a hole
somewhere. I like the idea that no one gets special consideration, (such
as farm subsidies) for simply doing their jobs. And I don't think any
government should be allowed to spend $.01 more than it takes in, except
for extraordinary circumstances, such as all out war.

That would seem to make me a conservative.

But that doesn't seem to be the way things are going, does it?

NeoCons are actually Liberals in disguise. Different details, but the
same results.

I apologize if I get a little testy on the subject, but I think that
Conservatives are straying as far from their original principles as the
Liberals strayed from theirs. The results will eventually be the same.

At least the "rich
corporations" will, if BPL is not economical, kill it instead of sinking
money into it. After all they want to stay rich.

Thank heavens!

To really make any inroads in the market, BPL will need to be as cheap as
dialup and as fast and reliable as cable modem.

I doubt that will ever happen. It starts more expensive and slower than
cable, and if it gets more popular, it will probably get slower.



I find it hard to believe this combination will happen.

Agreed!

The investment is too large.

Yeah, that is the strange part. The companies are going to have to run
fiber *almost* to the house! This means that the people that are signing
up are just that close to fiber performance! Why on earth they wouldn't
just run it the whole way is beyond me.

Those who are
willing to pay the price for high speed access have already switched to DSL
or cable, etc. Even they are fighting to get people to leave dialup but it
is the price that people generally put ahead of speed.

Depends. I used to have a dedicated phone line, and Compuserve for ISP.
I switched to Cable modem, got rid of the second phone line, and after 1
year, I made back all the money I paid for the cable modem, and am now
paying about $15.00 less per month (fiscally conservative 'lil ol' me)
than I was before.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , "Jim Hampton"
writes:


It would seem prudent to have the ARRL petition the FCC to raise amateur
power limits to partially recover that lost 10 dB. I think perhaps a 10 kw
limit would be close enough. It might also make BPL communications a bit
dicey too


Har! :-) :-) :-)

I was totally flabbergasted at reading the Phase 2 report. They
boldly went where no technical person dared to go in saying
"BPL will 'improve' the electric power line noise problems!"

Ideology trumps science! Yes, that was a shocking thing to read.


As of the end of the business day on Friday, 18 June 2004, the
Comment numbers in the FCC ECFS were -

docket 04-37 (NPRM) 1,399
docket 03-104 (NOI) 6,076

There's lots of more-than-one-page real technical problem
presentations there showing that Access BPL is full of snit
than there are for the BPL proponents. I don't think that will
matter much.

The writing seemed clear on the wall last year. BPL *will*
be started. The business folks are geared up for profits.
The President has made both BPL and Broadband a goal.
The good little Republican syncophants are synchronized
to The Word from on high.

BPL = Ban Pretentious Liberals?



It doesn't matter who wins a majority in the General Election.
BPL has started to deploy. Once it is IN, it becomes
legacy. Once the initial costs are taken care of, it is in the
regular profit time and the installers will fight tooth and nail
to keep it. The worm could turn.

With a legacy-status "utility" the BPLers could gain leverage
to actually STOP or cut down on all those nasty interfering
HF emitters...like amateur radio transmitters. Unknown, but
it is a spectre hovering in the background. Look at the troubles
some hams have in getting noisy electric power lines fixed.
Electric power distribution is very "legacy" by now and the
electric utility companies move slowly (if at all) on repairs.



Seriously, however, it is going to be interesting when BPL lines are found
adjacent to an active amateurs' property. BPL *will* be affected by rf.
Fire up your gallons.


Seriously, that's not a good idea. Hams are conditioned now
to be legal. Deliberate interference is illegal. It is much easier
to pull the tickets of a few hams doing deliberate interference
than it is to remove or reduce a legal deliberate interference
source in the form of BPL with government-accepted regulations.

Hoo, we are getting close to that strange discussion we had last year
with the fellow saying that if we know that it interferes, and we
transmit, we are purposely interfereing. That's enough to give a person
a headache!

But if a person is in a neighborhood with Access BPL, they won't need
to use that linear. Seems 100 watts will do just fine. I don't know the
frequency context of BPL/Amateur transmitter interference, but my guess
is that if you hear it on the band you are transmitting on, you'll do it
interference harm if you fire up.


All in all, though, the FCC has NO POWER to proactively stop
Access BPL now. At best all it can do is set the incidental
RF radiation levels and then enforce those. Or, wait about 30
years or so until BPL is truly legacy service and then, like
land telephony, start drafting more stringent regulations. In 30
years from now, few of us will be in a position to do much.




- Mike KB3EIA -

Subject: BPL - UPLC -Repeat the lie three times and claim it for truth
From: "Jim Hampton"
Date: 6/20/2004 9:09 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Clinton was not removed from office. What Clinton did was terrible to his
wife and daughter, but what damage to the country (other than a major
distraction) did it do?

He lied...repeatedly, under oath, looking Hillary and US directly in the
eyes.

That America kept looking the other way was the second biggest travesty.
Oh well...

Are you so naive as to think that this huge deficit
Bush is running won't hurt us? Already some want to reduce social security
more. It isn't that social security is broke (and it appears to be in a bit
better shape than they thought, but as good jobs disappear and are replaced
by near minimum-wage jobs, I wouldn't bet); it is that the federal
government has tapped the funds and issued IOUs to social security. They
don't want to pay back money to the folks that need it the most. Rob from
the poor and give to the rich.

Too bad folks didn't spend some more time reading Steve Forbes' plan for
restructuring the tax system in this country.

Compassionate conservative *IS* an oxymoron. I don't need any more idiots
in Washington running *huge* deficits to benefit the rich.

Why is it that we Americans always brag how anyone with the right
motivation and determination can become a millionaire, yet when they do it, we
take gleeful delight in doing/saying what we can to bring them down?

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: BPL - UPLC -Repeat the lie three times and claim it for truth
From: Robert Casey
Date: 6/20/2004 8:37 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

And replace him with who? John Kerry? A guy who sat side-by-side with
this Nation's disgrace, Jane "Hanoi" Fonda...?!?!

Did he? Heard that that photo was fake. And it's not like he was
touring Hanoi with her.
For all we know, Jane might have been a CIA spy.

Uh huh.

Both of whom "support the troops" by making public statements that give
aid and comfort to this Nation's foes WHILE we are in conflict with
them...?!?!

Vietnam was a stupid war. Now if we had a goal and a strategy that made
any sense, maybe we could have achieved something...

The war wasn't stupid.

Our conduct of it was. You can't take the battle to the enemy, reach a
certain goal, then recede and expect to win.

Where would we have been if we just pushed the German's back to the Rhine,
or if we didn't

George Bush is not the most eloquent speaker and like any other Human
Being, doesn't always get things right...But he's a man of TRUE moral
conviction and honesty. Replacing him with a creep like Kerry would be a
travesty and would send the wrong message to the World.

Problem is that he's trying to skip over that "separation of church and
state" thing.

Hardly, Robert. He's a man of strong moral conviction and I believe him
to be honest in his desire to see a moral reawakening in this country. While I
think that organized religion in it's own right is a scam, the basic tenents of
Christan belief are what built this nation and made it strong.

The ironic thing is that the basic tenents of ALL major religions profess
the same thing, yet all are at each others throats over who's more right or
more devout.

But no nation can exist for any length of time without some basis of faith
and basic moral convictions.

We have already watered down each and every tenent of basic civility until
only the force of law exists. And once we have removed the "roadblocks" of
some basic moral standards, what's left?

This country got rid of one lying, deceiving creep and narrowly avoided
electing another.


But the economy wasn't in the toilet. I didn't care if Bill got a BJ or
not. But he should
have owned up to it in that court of law. "Okay, I did it. You happy
now? Don't
we have more important things to spend time on?" After a month it would
have
blown over...

The economy was held together by a ton of taxes, Robert. Reagonomics
started us on the road to financial solvency. Clintonomics taxed the
be-jeebers out of us.

Why does GW still claim that Saddam aided Al Queda? Or is it that
Saddam didn't
tell the USA ambassador in Bagdad (or elsewhere) that "Al Queda is
planning an
attack on you guys and I kicked them out of my palace"? Not telling the
cops
about someone hatching a crime conspiracy is illegal.

I agree. That's what happens when you don't have an intelligence network
you can trust in place and have to depend on third party sources. Thanks,
Jimmy Carter.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Steve,

I have no problem with someone being rich; I have a problem when I pay a
higher percentage of my pay to taxes than they do.

Please don't tell me you are so naive that you think that the wealthy always
pay a higher percentage in taxes. Fortunately, one overhaul in social
security plugged one big hole. Social security used to be based on the
highest three earning years in the last 10. I knew one businessman that
paid himself quite poorly, taking most of the money as unearned income (thus
exempt from social security). Fact is, I know a businesswoman doing the
same thing. What happens is they start paying themselves handsomely the
last few years (and paying those payroll taxes too). As a result, they pay
over 20 or 30 years half what others pay and collect at 100% social
security. Unfortunately for both of these folks, they changed social
security so it is based on the 30 highest earning years, so now they get a
lot less. But that loophole existed for years.

Why is it that these "compassionate" conservatives can stand by and watch
school districts with 30 plus students in a classroom whilst a suburban
school has only 20 per class and every 8th grader receives a *laptop
computer* and honestly believe that everything is just fine? How did New
York state, in calculating aid to school districts, manage to count every
student in NYC as 0.7 student?

You are gullible at best. I'm not mad at you, just upset at priorities in
this country. Remember too that the whole world is watching this country to
see if our actions anywhere correspond to what we are saying. If I were a
European nation, I'd not only be a bit skeptical, I'd be nervous too.

73,
Jim AA2QA



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In article , (Chief
of Stuff of the U.S. military) writes:

Subject: BPL - UPLC -Repeat the lie three times and claim it for truth
From: Robert Casey
Date: 6/20/2004 8:37 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

And replace him with who? John Kerry? A guy who sat side-by-side with
this Nation's disgrace, Jane "Hanoi" Fonda...?!?!

Did he? Heard that that photo was fake. And it's not like he was
touring Hanoi with her.
For all we know, Jane might have been a CIA spy.

Uh huh.

Both of whom "support the troops" by making public statements that give
aid and comfort to this Nation's foes WHILE we are in conflict with
them...?!?!

Vietnam was a stupid war. Now if we had a goal and a strategy that made
any sense, maybe we could have achieved something...

The war wasn't stupid.

Our conduct of it was. You can't take the battle to the enemy, reach a
certain goal, then recede and expect to win.

Must have been the site of nursie's "hostile actions."

Where would we have been if we just pushed the German's back to the
Rhine, or if we didn't

Didn't the USMC do good in Yurp?

George Bush is not the most eloquent speaker and like any other Human
Being, doesn't always get things right...But he's a man of TRUE moral
conviction and honesty. Replacing him with a creep like Kerry would be a
travesty and would send the wrong message to the World.

Problem is that he's trying to skip over that "separation of church and
state" thing.

Hardly, Robert. He's a man of strong moral conviction and I believe
him
to be honest in his desire to see a moral reawakening in this country. While
I
think that organized religion in it's own right is a scam, the basic tenents
of
Christan belief are what built this nation and made it strong.

"tenents?" "Christan?" :-)

White power rules!

Strength! Combat! Kill! Destroy!

The ironic thing is that the basic tenents of ALL major religions profess
the same thing, yet all are at each others throats over who's more right or
more devout.

Everbody gotta be "Christan!"

But no nation can exist for any length of time without some basis of
faith
and basic moral convictions.

Right...and therefore, amateur radio gotta have code test. :-)

We have already watered down each and every tenent of basic civility
until
only the force of law exists. And once we have removed the "roadblocks" of
some basic moral standards, what's left?

Aren't the "tenents" paying rent or something?

This country got rid of one lying, deceiving creep and narrowly avoided
electing another.

But the economy wasn't in the toilet. I didn't care if Bill got a BJ or not.
But he should
have owned up to it in that court of law. "Okay, I did it. You happy now?
Don't
we have more important things to spend time on?" After a month it would have
blown over...

The economy was held together by a ton of taxes, Robert. Reagonomics
started us on the road to financial solvency. Clintonomics taxed the
be-jeebers out of us.

Riiiiight. :-) Whatever it is Democrats are the Antichrist!

Why does GW still claim that Saddam aided Al Queda? Or is it that Saddam
didn't
tell the USA ambassador in Bagdad (or elsewhere) that "Al Queda is planning
an
attack on you guys and I kicked them out of my palace"? Not telling the cops
about someone hatching a crime conspiracy is illegal.

I agree. That's what happens when you don't have an intelligence network
you can trust in place and have to depend on third party sources. Thanks,
Jimmy Carter.

Democrats are the Antichrist!

I just luvvvv these informed diss and cuss sessions about AMATEUR RADIO
POLICY matters done in a "meaningful discourse" manner. :-)

Well, best to let the Chief of Stuff go back to his Stuff duties and
everyone else MIGHT get back to Access BPL. Maybe.

Temper fry...

LHA / WMD

In article , (U.S.
Military Chief of Stuff and former President) writes:

Subject: BPL - UPLC -Repeat the lie three times and claim it for truth
From: "Jim Hampton"
Date: 6/20/2004 9:09 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Clinton was not removed from office. What Clinton did was terrible to his
wife and daughter, but what damage to the country (other than a major
distraction) did it do?

He lied...repeatedly, under oath, looking Hillary and US directly in the
eyes.

That America kept looking the other way was the second biggest travesty.

Oh well...

Nursie think Democrats be the Antichrist. Nursie also think:

All Democrats LIE, cheat, steal, and smell bad under arms.

Are you so naive as to think that this huge deficit
Bush is running won't hurt us? Already some want to reduce social security
more. It isn't that social security is broke (and it appears to be in a bit
better shape than they thought, but as good jobs disappear and are replaced
by near minimum-wage jobs, I wouldn't bet); it is that the federal
government has tapped the funds and issued IOUs to social security. They
don't want to pay back money to the folks that need it the most. Rob from
the poor and give to the rich.

Too bad folks didn't spend some more time reading Steve Forbes' plan for
restructuring the tax system in this country.

Riiiiiight.

Compassionate conservative *IS* an oxymoron. I don't need any more idiots
in Washington running *huge* deficits to benefit the rich.

Why is it that we Americans always brag how anyone with the right
motivation and determination can become a millionaire, yet when they do it, we
take gleeful delight in doing/saying what we can to bring them down?

Cuz all nursie wanna do is FIGHT! [got no money...not enuf]

Well...there goes any hope for "meaningful discussion" on how
BROADBAND OVER POWER LINES is going to hurt/help
U.S. amateur radio.

Tune in next day for another brilliant thoughful reason for the decline
and fall of the world as nursie knows it...

Temper fry...

LHA / WMD