| Page 2 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
|
Ryan, KC8PMX wrote: "Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message ... Subject: Field Day Plans? From: "Ryan, KC8PMX" Date: 6/24/2004 11:20 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: Will be running KC8PMX on 50Mhz-450Mhz bands. I was thinking a shorter call would help, but I ran those phonetics thru my mind a couple times, and "PAPA MIKE X-RAY" seems to me to be rather prominent. It's not too bad, although I wished I would have gotten a different call when originally assigned. I might purposefully go for the vanity call of K8KEA, just to be a pain in the ass because our club call is W8KEA. hi hi Decided to run on my own as a matter of passive resistance to the local club's field day planner. Field day is supposed to be an emergency preparedness scenario, and there is nothing close to that from what I see of the plans locally here. How's that, Ryan...??? Too much of the picnic-in-the-park thing? No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing by the school that is). That you disagree is one thing. No problem there. But field day is for your club, and it seems that there is an "if things aren't done my way, I'm not going to play. Not too teamlike. And if you all seriously want to do it differently, vote the dude out! Of course, will someone step up to the plate and run field day in his absence? Is there a clamor and a rush of people wanting to be FD Chairman? Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency simulation. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we set up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications. Yes there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know when our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond and deal with it as best as we can. In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that to be desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that emergency would occur....... Sure. You may need to be operating while ill from something or be putting your life at serious risk at the time. You may be up for several days without sleep. You may be injured. Heck, even the person you are trying to communicate with may only have a CW rig. So you can't even begin to simulate truly accurate emergency condx. Under most real emergency circumstances, some emergency personell is going to tell you to go to a certain place, and operate a certain transciever. You won't set up a tent or put together a station or anything. The purpose of FD is to in large prt get peopl simply *thinking* about emergency ops, and *doing* some simulated ops. Dunno where tha hyper accurate emergency scenario that I hear about came from. Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director decides the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far outwieghs any other aspect of field day. Best way to control where the site is is to become an EC. The you can do as YOUR philosophical desires dictate. Are you willing to do that? Related item. I was in a club years ago where I was in charge of our biggest fund raiser. Some of the club members didn't like how I was doing things (specifically, my methods required some work) But we made a LOT of money for a small club. So they led a revolt against me, supported by the club prez of refusing to help me or work for me. My only option that didn't make me look like an idiot was to resign from my position and chairmanship and the club. I was ironically the Vice president. The result? Remember how they thought that my working demands were too much? I wanted 4 hours of work per year per club member. Well, no one wanted to work even after they got ride of the ******* - me, so they ended up hiring three people to do my job (keeping in mind, I did it for nuttin'), subbed out the most lucrative part of the job, and now make absolutely no money on a fund raiser that was bringing in a lot of money every year. They are actually in money trouble now. Smart people weren't they? Point is, be good to the volunteers, and if you don't like what they are doing, do better. - Mike KB3EIA - |
In article , Mike Coslo
writes: No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing by the school that is). That you disagree is one thing. No problem there. But field day is for your club, and it seems that there is an "if things aren't done my way, I'm not going to play. Not too teamlike. Comes down to "do you plan FD for what will bring out the most people, or what will make the most points, or what will be the most realistic emergency simulation. or what will get the most publicity?" Or any of a bunch of other goals. And if you all seriously want to do it differently, vote the dude out! Of course, will someone step up to the plate and run field day in his absence? Is there a clamor and a rush of people wanting to be FD Chairman? Classic "bell the cat" problem. Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency simulation. That's your vision of it, Ryan. Others see FD very differently. The good thing is that FD has many facets and can be done many ways. That's why it's so popular - brings out more hams than any other domestic operating activity. The bad thing is that FD has many facets and can be done many ways. That's why it can be such a source of disagreement. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we set up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications. It's fundamentally a skills and planning exercise. It's one thing to talk about setting up a station quickly in an unprepared location, and another thing to actually *do* it. Operating skills get practiced. Teamwork and learning to deal with volunteers, both as a leader and as a team member. Yes there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know when our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond and deal with it as best as we can. But you guys have training sessions, right? In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that to be desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that emergency would occur....... Sure. You may need to be operating while ill from something or be putting your life at serious risk at the time. You may be up for several days without sleep. You may be injured. Heck, even the person you are trying to communicate with may only have a CW rig. So you can't even begin to simulate truly accurate emergency condx. You can't simulate all of them by any means, but FD simulates some of them. Under most real emergency circumstances, some emergency personell is going to tell you to go to a certain place, and operate a certain transciever. You won't set up a tent or put together a station or anything. Maybe. Or it might go the other way - you may be asked to go to a certain location and bring everything you need along. The purpose of FD is to in large prt get peopl simply *thinking* about emergency ops, and *doing* some simulated ops. Bingo! Dunno where tha hyper accurate emergency scenario that I hear about came from. Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director decides the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far outwieghs any other aspect of field day. The trick is to balance all the different aspects. Here's a scenario for ya: Months in advance, everyone who wants to participate is required to fill out a form listing what equipment, time, and skills they can volunteer for FD. Everyone is responsible for keeping their FD forms updated of changes (equipment /schedule changes, license upgrades, etc.) The forms are collected and the FD committee of no more than 3 people puts together a Field Day master plan. 48-72 hours before FD, everyone who is signed up gets their "sealed orders" which detail where they are to go, what they are expected to bring with them and what they are expected to do for FD. It could be as simple as "show up at X on or before time T and operate station S" or as complex as "head the team running station S, bring a this list of equipment..." Included could be things bringing like foul-weather gear even though the forecast is perfect. You don't have to wear it but you have to have it with you. Could also simulate equipment breakdowns and unavailability - although that sort of thing often happens anyway. Except for the FD committee, nobody knows what they're going to be doing until shortly before FD. To more realistically simulate, some very good resources (rigs, antennas, generators, etc.) might be left completely unused while less than perfect substitutes are pressed into service. You'd probably love a Field Day like that, Ryan. Would be a great learning experience for all. But I can guarantee you that more than half (probably more than 3/4) of the FD regulars in your club would walk away if the club tried such a plan cold turkey. Best way to control where the site is is to become an EC. The you can do as YOUR philosophical desires dictate. Are you willing to do that? And if you are, how will you deal with the inevitable disputes that will arise? Remember, these folks are all volunteers, bringing their own equipment with them. Related item. I was in a club years ago where I was in charge of our biggest fund raiser. Some of the club members didn't like how I was doing things (specifically, my methods required some work) But we made a LOT of money for a small club. So they led a revolt against me, supported by the club prez of refusing to help me or work for me. My only option that didn't make me look like an idiot was to resign from my position and chairmanship and the club. I was ironically the Vice president. The result? Remember how they thought that my working demands were too much? I wanted 4 hours of work per year per club member. You said the big bad C word - commitment. Well, no one wanted to work even after they got ride of the ******* - me, so they ended up hiring three people to do my job (keeping in mind, I did it for nuttin'), subbed out the most lucrative part of the job, and now make absolutely no money on a fund raiser that was bringing in a lot of money every year. They are actually in money trouble now. Smart people weren't they? bwaahaahaa - great story, Mike. Point is, be good to the volunteers, and if you don't like what they are doing, do better. Most of all, understand that FD is very different things to very different people. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , Mike Coslo writes: No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing by the school that is). Perhaps he/she couldn't get permission to set up anywhere else. Although if that was the case, they should have communicated better. That you disagree is one thing. No problem there. But field day is for your club, and it seems that there is an "if things aren't done my way, I'm not going to play. Not too teamlike. Comes down to "do you plan FD for what will bring out the most people, or what will make the most points, or what will be the most realistic emergency simulation. or what will get the most publicity?" Or any of a bunch of other goals. Absolutely true. To me FD is mainly can you actually get a GOOD station or stations set up at a location that has no existing facilities? Everything else is a secondary function of FD. And if you all seriously want to do it differently, vote the dude out! Of course, will someone step up to the plate and run field day in his absence? Is there a clamor and a rush of people wanting to be FD Chairman? Classic "bell the cat" problem. Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency simulation. That's your vision of it, Ryan. Others see FD very differently. The good thing is that FD has many facets and can be done many ways. That's why it's so popular - brings out more hams than any other domestic operating activity. The bad thing is that FD has many facets and can be done many ways. That's why it can be such a source of disagreement. As I said above, for me it's all about getting a good station setup and then verifying (through the contest portion) that it is indeed a good station. Now we do some other things too. For example, we have people assigned to do advance promotional work (publicity), people assigned to handle food, etc. But without stations, there's no FD. [big snip] Under most real emergency circumstances, some emergency personell is going to tell you to go to a certain place, and operate a certain transciever. You won't set up a tent or put together a station or anything. Maybe or maybe not. Depending on how much the local EC knows about hams and their abilities, he/she may just say set up stations that will cover area X. It would be more common that the EC talks to the leader of the ham group and then puts that ham in charge of communications. Maybe. Or it might go the other way - you may be asked to go to a certain location and bring everything you need along. The purpose of FD is to in large prt get peopl simply *thinking* about emergency ops, and *doing* some simulated ops. Bingo! Also to me it is to see what can you do with the resources available to you or your group. Small groups for example may not have a lot of resources. In past years, our club set up, from scratch, 3 towers of 50 feet each with beams in about two hours plus some wire antennas and ran 4A. This year, due to illness of several members and the possible poor turn out due to last year's poor band conditions, we put up one tower with beam and a couple of loops and ran 2A. It worked out very well despite the fact that some of us had our reservations about it (me for one). Dunno where tha hyper accurate emergency scenario that I hear about came from. Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director decides the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far outwieghs any other aspect of field day. The trick is to balance all the different aspects. Here's a scenario for ya: [snipped long description of scenario] Here's another possible scenario. You are in a county with a low population perhaps you are the only ham in the county and there is no emergency coordinator. A disaster has smashed everything flat including your home and YOU and only YOU are even a possible source of communications. It will be up to you to salvage the equipment from the rubble and get it set up and on the air. Don't say this scenario can't happen because it or something similar has happened. Point is: You can't duplicate real emergencies that ham radio would be involved in. Who would have expected the WTC to be attacked and their subsequent collapse? As amateurs, our FD exercise (to me) is to learn what we can and cannot do as individuals and as a group. Actually it is probably good to try something a little different each year. Next year I and the OM may choose to try a FD by ourselves NOT because we don't want to participate with the club but just to do something different and see how well we can do without the larger resources available through the club. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ...
"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message ... Subject: Field Day Plans? From: "Ryan, KC8PMX" Date: 6/24/2004 11:20 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: Will be running KC8PMX on 50Mhz-450Mhz bands. I was thinking a shorter call would help, but I ran those phonetics thru my mind a couple times, and "PAPA MIKE X-RAY" seems to me to be rather prominent. It's not too bad, although I wished I would have gotten a different call when originally assigned. I might purposefully go for the vanity call of K8KEA, just to be a pain in the ass because our club call is W8KEA. hi hi Can't we all just get along? Decided to run on my own as a matter of passive resistance to the local club's field day planner. Field day is supposed to be an emergency preparedness scenario, and there is nothing close to that from what I see of the plans locally here. How's that, Ryan...??? Too much of the picnic-in-the-park thing? No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing by the school that is). Let me guess. He's an Extra? Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency simulation. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we set up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications. Yes there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know when our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond and deal with it as best as we can. Should be points for real emergency locations rather than setting up at KOA. In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that to be desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that emergency would occur....... Hmmmm. Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director decides the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far outwieghs any other aspect of field day. Elevate this idea to ARRL. County EC selects operating locations. Keeps secret. Makes the assignment 2 hours before test starts. Extra points, of course. |
N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes: No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing by the school that is). That you disagree is one thing. No problem there. But field day is for your club, and it seems that there is an "if things aren't done my way, I'm not going to play. Not too teamlike. Comes down to "do you plan FD for what will bring out the most people, or what will make the most points, or what will be the most realistic emergency simulation. or what will get the most publicity?" Or any of a bunch of other goals. Sure. And will the local mall allow you to run ops all night? I'm a firm believer in a balanced approach. Our FD site is in a stunningly beautiful field with plenty of trees and a million dollar view. There is a picnic area about 1500 feet away, and ball fields tennis courts and soccer fields east and west. It's a huge site, probably bigger than a square mile. We get a fair amount of onlookers that were out for a walk with the family or boyfriend/girlfriend. We could possibly get more exposure by running it downtown or in the City high school parking lot, but no thanks. And if you all seriously want to do it differently, vote the dude out! Of course, will someone step up to the plate and run field day in his absence? Is there a clamor and a rush of people wanting to be FD Chairman? Classic "bell the cat" problem. Yup. Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency simulation. That's your vision of it, Ryan. Others see FD very differently. The good thing is that FD has many facets and can be done many ways. That's why it's so popular - brings out more hams than any other domestic operating activity. The bad thing is that FD has many facets and can be done many ways. That's why it can be such a source of disagreement. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we set up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications. It's fundamentally a skills and planning exercise. It's one thing to talk about setting up a station quickly in an unprepared location, and another thing to actually *do* it. Operating skills get practiced. Teamwork and learning to deal with volunteers, both as a leader and as a team member. Yes there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know when our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond and deal with it as best as we can. But you guys have training sessions, right? In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that to be desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that emergency would occur....... Sure. You may need to be operating while ill from something or be putting your life at serious risk at the time. You may be up for several days without sleep. You may be injured. Heck, even the person you are trying to communicate with may only have a CW rig. So you can't even begin to simulate truly accurate emergency condx. You can't simulate all of them by any means, but FD simulates some of them. Yeah, and it's also fun. Want people to come out? let 'em have some fun. That's why so many clubs have picnics for FD. That isn't a realistic emergency scenario for sure! Under most real emergency circumstances, some emergency personell is going to tell you to go to a certain place, and operate a certain transciever. You won't set up a tent or put together a station or anything. Maybe. Or it might go the other way - you may be asked to go to a certain location and bring everything you need along. The purpose of FD is to in large prt get peopl simply *thinking* about emergency ops, and *doing* some simulated ops. Bingo! Dunno where tha hyper accurate emergency scenario that I hear about came from. Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director decides the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far outwieghs any other aspect of field day. The trick is to balance all the different aspects. Here's a scenario for ya: Months in advance, everyone who wants to participate is required to fill out a form listing what equipment, time, and skills they can volunteer for FD. Everyone is responsible for keeping their FD forms updated of changes (equipment /schedule changes, license upgrades, etc.) The forms are collected and the FD committee of no more than 3 people puts together a Field Day master plan. 48-72 hours before FD, everyone who is signed up gets their "sealed orders" which detail where they are to go, what they are expected to bring with them and what they are expected to do for FD. It could be as simple as "show up at X on or before time T and operate station S" or as complex as "head the team running station S, bring a this list of equipment..." Included could be things bringing like foul-weather gear even though the forecast is perfect. You don't have to wear it but you have to have it with you. Could also simulate equipment breakdowns and unavailability - although that sort of thing often happens anyway. Except for the FD committee, nobody knows what they're going to be doing until shortly before FD. To more realistically simulate, some very good resources (rigs, antennas, generators, etc.) might be left completely unused while less than perfect substitutes are pressed into service. You'd probably love a Field Day like that, Ryan. Would be a great learning experience for all. But I can guarantee you that more than half (probably more than 3/4) of the FD regulars in your club would walk away if the club tried such a plan cold turkey. That would be kind of fun. But you're right, too many people would hate it. Best way to control where the site is is to become an EC. The you can do as YOUR philosophical desires dictate. Are you willing to do that? And if you are, how will you deal with the inevitable disputes that will arise? Remember, these folks are all volunteers, bringing their own equipment with them. Yaknow, those disputes are part of the training too! The frayed nerves are part of the training, even. I note a short frayed nerve session about 10 minutes before FD or any other big event. Player a gets a little irritated with player B. Knowing about that allows us to smooth it over before it gets big. There are so many things about FD that are training us without us even consciously thinking about them. Related item. I was in a club years ago where I was in charge of our biggest fund raiser. Some of the club members didn't like how I was doing things (specifically, my methods required some work) But we made a LOT of money for a small club. So they led a revolt against me, supported by the club prez of refusing to help me or work for me. My only option that didn't make me look like an idiot was to resign from my position and chairmanship and the club. I was ironically the Vice president. The result? Remember how they thought that my working demands were too much? I wanted 4 hours of work per year per club member. You said the big bad C word - commitment. Well, no one wanted to work even after they got ride of the ******* - me, so they ended up hiring three people to do my job (keeping in mind, I did it for nuttin'), subbed out the most lucrative part of the job, and now make absolutely no money on a fund raiser that was bringing in a lot of money every year. They are actually in money trouble now. Smart people weren't they? bwaahaahaa - great story, Mike. Zey haz no money to buy zee toyz they dezire no more! I'm not one to gloat, but this was such a case of poetic justice and Karma that I have to, just a teeny tiny bit. But I have to balance that with sympathy for their plight now. They were willingly stupid, and are paying the price. I did want to note that there were a few people in the club that *were* willing helpers. They were my core supporters. And when I left, they left too. So all that were left were the lazy ones. Evolution will extrat it's price eventually. Point is, be good to the volunteers, and if you don't like what they are doing, do better. Most of all, understand that FD is very different things to very different people. 73 de Jim, N2EY - Mike KB3EIA - |
Subject: Field Day Plans?
From: (William) Date: 6/28/2004 11:20 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: "Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ... It's not too bad, although I wished I would have gotten a different call when originally assigned. I might purposefully go for the vanity call of K8KEA, just to be a pain in the ass because our club call is W8KEA. hi hi Can't we all just get along? "WE" can. You and your mentor are the one's bantering in baby-babble. Should be points for real emergency locations rather than setting up at KOA. What KOA had a Field Day set-up? Elevate this idea to ARRL. County EC selects operating locations. Keeps secret. Makes the assignment 2 hours before test starts. Well, well...Brain manages an idea that doesn't insult anyone and actually has some merit. Put THIS day on the calendar! Steve, K4YZ |
In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes: Subject: Field Day Plans? From: (William) Date: 6/28/2004 11:20 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: "Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ... It's not too bad, although I wished I would have gotten a different call when originally assigned. I might purposefully go for the vanity call of K8KEA, just to be a pain in the ass because our club call is W8KEA. hi hi Can't we all just get along? "WE" can. You and your mentor are the one's bantering in baby-babble. Poor nursie imagining things again. Must have day off in nursieland and nothing to do. "Short-talk" just style for quick communication. Like "CW" abbreviations...which, when written verbatim, look like childish almost-gibberish to anyone. Tsk. That statement offends nursie? Too bad. Is true. Been so long time. Nursie want no age limit on ham radio license? No age limit now. Why Jimmie argue and diss on age limit suggestion of five years ago? No real reason. Nursie and Jimmie wanna do FIGHT over newsgrope suppremacy? Nursie babble stuff on aerospace in other thread. Nursie not understand mass ratios, specific impulse, planetary system characteristics like "Lagrange Point." Nursie big on emotion, short on smarts. Nursie work in aerospace? Think all simple, big boondoggle? Nursie nuts, no knowledge or experience in spaceflight, just wanna-be ace in military-sounding civil air thing. Nursie should TRY to listen to those with more knowledge than he. Nursie doesn't do that. Nursie overrides dumbness with EMOTION writ large. He thinks will-and-idea will conquer all problems, not understanding that emotional desires don't mean squat to physical world. Typical, when nursie confronted with ANY opposition, he gets angry, yells and disses without thinking problem through. When others make fun of yelling and sissing, nursie goes berserk. Not normal behavior. Nursie have sick-iatry credentials? If so, he not recognize his own aberrant behavior. Tsk. Should be points for real emergency locations rather than setting up at KOA. What KOA had a Field Day set-up? Matters not. Field Day always touted as "emergency exercise" by League. Seldom so. Most have field day in park, do CONTEST FUN. Real emergencies no fun. Hypocrisy of League saying FD is "emergency exercise." Kampgrounds Of America (KOA) is a combination trailer park and motel for those with RVs. Some have parkland adjoining, some not. Not in midst of urban centers. City park better. Central. Easy to get to to hold CONTEST. Field Day is really a contest thing. Admit it, be man. Nursie now goes into rage saying bad things of those not considering Field Day to be patriotic thing, showing how ham radio is ready for all emergencies! [predictable] Nursie gets offended to the max at others not touting hum raddio as super patriotism, homeland security, etc. Nursie get fruitcake. Elevate this idea to ARRL. County EC selects operating locations. Keeps secret. Makes the assignment 2 hours before test starts. Well, well...Brain manages an idea that doesn't insult anyone and actually has some merit. Put THIS day on the calendar! Snarl, nursie, snarl. Nursie manages to sneer insults at others with ideas. Good boy. Sic 'em. Nursie have problem playing well with others. He demand all others think like him. Not think like nursie? Bad. Do ethnic cleansing, using scrub brush of nastygrams, mean dissing and cussing. Nursie wanna commit all who not think like him. Nursie think he sane. Probably not. Old fruitcake. Not good PR for hum raddio. Nursie not learn what means phrase "let it be." Temper fry... LHA / WMD |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message ...
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , Mike Coslo writes: No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing by the school that is). Perhaps he/she couldn't get permission to set up anywhere else. Although if that was the case, they should have communicated better. Getting a site has become more difficult around here, mostly because of development. Running generators all night requires some room. What were once open fields are now McMansions. There's also the liability issues. In the '80s, radio club I belonged to did FD at what used to be a Nike missile radar site. Off Delchester Road and West Chester Pike. Lots of ready-made ham antenna structures and shelter. All gone now. Good times. To me FD is mainly can you actually get a GOOD station or stations set up at a location that has no existing facilities? Everything else is a secondary function of FD. Yep. What constitutes a "good" station varies all over the place. As I said above, for me it's all about getting a good station setup and then verifying (through the contest portion) that it is indeed a good station. Now we do some other things too. For example, we have people assigned to do advance promotional work (publicity), people assigned to handle food, etc. But without stations, there's no FD. "Without stations, there's no FD." That's a keeper quote! [big snip] Under most real emergency circumstances, some emergency personell is going to tell you to go to a certain place, and operate a certain transciever. You won't set up a tent or put together a station or anything. Maybe or maybe not. Depending on how much the local EC knows about hams and their abilities, he/she may just say set up stations that will cover area X. It would be more common that the EC talks to the leader of the ham group and then puts that ham in charge of communications. And it all depends what kind of comms are needed. In some cases, the need is strictly local. In others, it may be long-distance. Also to me it is to see what can you do with the resources available to you or your group. Small groups for example may not have a lot of resources. In past years, our club set up, from scratch, 3 towers of 50 feet each with beams in about two hours plus some wire antennas and ran 4A. This year, due to illness of several members and the possible poor turn out due to last year's poor band conditions, we put up one tower with beam and a couple of loops and ran 2A. It worked out very well despite the fact that some of us had our reservations about it (me for one). One thing that I've seen way too much of are the groups who try to do too much with too little. Somebody gets a bug in their ear to do 5A, and it doesn't matter to them that the site isn't big enough for 3A, or that there won't be enough ops to keep 5 rigs on the air full time. Or even most of the time. Here's another possible scenario. You are in a county with a low population perhaps you are the only ham in the county and there is no emergency coordinator. A disaster has smashed everything flat including your home and YOU and only YOU are even a possible source of communications. It will be up to you to salvage the equipment from the rubble and get it set up and on the air. Don't say this scenario can't happen because it or something similar has happened. All sorts of variations. Maybe your area is untouched except that the power is off and land communications out. Or maybe a critical bridge is washed away. Remember the San Franscisco earthquake of some years back, when that upper roadway section of the Bay Bridge partially fell? It took a bunch of telco cable with it. Very little long-distance capacity was left, and most of that was needed for emergency comms. So hams handled a lot of health-and-welfare traffic. Which doesn't sound like a big deal unless you have a loved one there and haven't heard from them in a few days, and the TV news shows their neighborhood on fire or the multilevel freeway they use twice a day has collapsed.... Point is: You can't duplicate real emergencies that ham radio would be involved in. Who would have expected the WTC to be attacked and their subsequent collapse? Exactly. Or that a shuttle would burn up on reentry and scatter itself over thousands of square miles? As amateurs, our FD exercise (to me) is to learn what we can and cannot do as individuals and as a group. Yep. And to expand our skills. Actually it is probably good to try something a little different each year. Next year I and the OM may choose to try a FD by ourselves NOT because we don't want to participate with the club but just to do something different and see how well we can do without the larger resources available through the club. Good advice. I've done big groups, medium groups, small groups and singlehanded. All kinds of sites, too. Lots of fun. Don't think I've missed one since 1968. 364 days till the next one... 73 de Jim, N2EY |
In article , Mike Coslo writes:
N2EY wrote: In article , Mike Coslo writes: "do you plan FD for what will bring out the most people, or what will make the most points, or what will be the most realistic emergency simulation. or what will get the most publicity?" Or any of a bunch of other goals. Sure. And will the local mall allow you to run ops all night? Not around here! I'm a firm believer in a balanced approach. Our FD site is in a stunningly beautiful field with plenty of trees and a million dollar view. There is a picnic area about 1500 feet away, and ball fields tennis courts and soccer fields east and west. It's a huge site, probably bigger than a square mile. We get a fair amount of onlookers that were out for a walk with the family or boyfriend/girlfriend. We could possibly get more exposure by running it downtown or in the City high school parking lot, but no thanks. Exactly. Here's a scenario for ya: Months in advance ..... You'd probably love a Field Day like that, Ryan. Would be a great learning experience for all. But I can guarantee you that more than half (probably more than 3/4) of the FD regulars in your club would walk away if the club tried such a plan cold turkey. That would be kind of fun. But you're right, too many people would hate it. Unless it were brought about very gradually. Best way to control where the site is is to become an EC. The you can do as YOUR philosophical desires dictate. Are you willing to do that? And if you are, how will you deal with the inevitable disputes that will arise? Remember, these folks are all volunteers, bringing their own equipment with them. Yaknow, those disputes are part of the training too! The frayed nerves are part of the training, even. I note a short frayed nerve session about 10 minutes before FD or any other big event. Player a gets a little irritated with player B. Knowing about that allows us to smooth it over before it gets big. Excellent point! There are so many things about FD that are training us without us even consciously thinking about them. Even something as basic as exactly what to bring along to set up a complete station. ("Coax? I thought *you* brought the coax!") Well, no one wanted to work even after they got ride of the ******* - me, so they ended up hiring three people to do my job (keeping in mind, I did it for nuttin'), subbed out the most lucrative part of the job, and now make absolutely no money on a fund raiser that was bringing in a lot of money every year. They are actually in money trouble now. Smart people weren't they? bwaahaahaa - great story, Mike. Zey haz no money to buy zee toyz they dezire no more! I'm not one to gloat, but this was such a case of poetic justice and Karma that I have to, just a teeny tiny bit. But I have to balance that with sympathy for their plight now. They were willingly stupid, and are paying the price. Reality doesn't care what they believe. I did want to note that there were a few people in the club that *were* willing helpers. They were my core supporters. And when I left, they left too. So all that were left were the lazy ones. Evolution will extrat it's price eventually. When I was a small child, the local parish had bingo night, raffles and an annual fair. People came - including non-Catholics! - and dropped some dollars and had a good time. Then a new monsignor showed up and put an end to all of it. Thought people should just drop the money in the basket every week. Guess what - they didn't. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1 "N2EY" == n2ey writes: [...] N2EY Here's a scenario for ya: [... a fabulous scenario elided ...] N2EY Except for the FD committee, nobody knows what they're going to N2EY be doing until shortly before FD. To more realistically N2EY simulate, some very good resources (rigs, antennas, generators, N2EY etc.) might be left completely unused while less than perfect N2EY substitutes are pressed into service. Oh, I would so totally sign up for this. Wow. I wish my club were brave enough to try this. Jack. - -- Jack Twilley jmt at twilley dot org http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFA4OWvGPFSfAB/ezgRAgRTAJ9UfkHHfjXiCZ+rGZEq74zH33swfQCdFFgW ADyIpSlIKt0z8tsFDmCeY1c= =/QpJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... Ryan, KC8PMX wrote: "Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message ... Subject: Field Day Plans? From: "Ryan, KC8PMX" Date: 6/24/2004 11:20 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: Will be running KC8PMX on 50Mhz-450Mhz bands. I was thinking a shorter call would help, but I ran those phonetics thru my mind a couple times, and "PAPA MIKE X-RAY" seems to me to be rather prominent. It's not too bad, although I wished I would have gotten a different call when originally assigned. I might purposefully go for the vanity call of K8KEA, just to be a pain in the ass because our club call is W8KEA. hi hi Decided to run on my own as a matter of passive resistance to the local club's field day planner. Field day is supposed to be an emergency preparedness scenario, and there is nothing close to that from what I see of the plans locally here. How's that, Ryan...??? Too much of the picnic-in-the-park thing? No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing by the school that is). That you disagree is one thing. No problem there. But field day is for your club, and it seems that there is an "if things aren't done my way, I'm not going to play. Not too teamlike. And if you all seriously want to do it differently, vote the dude out! Believe me, that is in the works. Of course, will someone step up to the plate and run field day in his absence? Is there a clamor and a rush of people wanting to be FD Chairman? No, apparently only the vice-pres can do that.... Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency simulation. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we set up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications. Yes there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know when our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond and deal with it as best as we can. In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that to be desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that emergency would occur....... Sure. You may need to be operating while ill from something or be putting your life at serious risk at the time. You may be up for several days without sleep. You may be injured. Now thats going to extremes, but in reality, still, right now we have up to a year to choose the sites we operate for F.D., and like I said, some places might be less than desired..... Heck, even the person you are trying to communicate with may only have a CW rig. So you can't even begin to simulate truly accurate emergency condx. Under most real emergency circumstances, some emergency personell is going to tell you to go to a certain place, and operate a certain transciever. You won't set up a tent or put together a station or anything. The purpose of FD is to in large prt get peopl simply *thinking* about emergency ops, and *doing* some simulated ops. Dunno where tha hyper accurate emergency scenario that I hear about came from. Well hell, I can *think* about emergency ops all day/year long..... but it is NOT a simulation at this point from what I have seen locally of at least a dozen local area groups..... Its merely a "contest" but doing it from outside instead of indoors. Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director decides the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far outwieghs any other aspect of field day. Best way to control where the site is is to become an EC. The you can do as YOUR philosophical desires dictate. Are you willing to do that? Yep, and an assistant EC right now. Related item. I was in a club years ago where I was in charge of our biggest fund raiser. Some of the club members didn't like how I was doing things (specifically, my methods required some work) But we made a LOT of money for a small club. So they led a revolt against me, supported by the club prez of refusing to help me or work for me. My only option that didn't make me look like an idiot was to resign from my position and chairmanship and the club. I was ironically the Vice president. The result? Remember how they thought that my working demands were too much? I wanted 4 hours of work per year per club member. Well, no one wanted to work even after they got ride of the ******* - me, so they ended up hiring three people to do my job (keeping in mind, I did it for nuttin'), subbed out the most lucrative part of the job, and now make absolutely no money on a fund raiser that was bringing in a lot of money every year. They are actually in money trouble now. Smart people weren't they? Point is, be good to the volunteers, and if you don't like what they are doing, do better. - Mike KB3EIA - Yeah, unfortunately we have our own set of problems..... including lack of participation..... I feel your pain brother. Ryan KC8PMX |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message ... "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , Mike Coslo writes: No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing by the school that is). Perhaps he/she couldn't get permission to set up anywhere else. Although if that was the case, they should have communicated better. Actually, there were a ton of possibilities...... Including many more "optimum" spots than where it was. Ryan KC8PMX |
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , Mike Coslo writes: No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing by the school that is). That you disagree is one thing. No problem there. But field day is for your club, and it seems that there is an "if things aren't done my way, I'm not going to play. Not too teamlike. Comes down to "do you plan FD for what will bring out the most people, or what will make the most points, or what will be the most realistic emergency simulation. or what will get the most publicity?" Or any of a bunch of other goals. And if you all seriously want to do it differently, vote the dude out! Of course, will someone step up to the plate and run field day in his absence? Is there a clamor and a rush of people wanting to be FD Chairman? Classic "bell the cat" problem. Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency simulation. That's your vision of it, Ryan. Others see FD very differently. The good thing is that FD has many facets and can be done many ways. That's why it's so popular - brings out more hams than any other domestic operating activity. The bad thing is that FD has many facets and can be done many ways. That's why it can be such a source of disagreement. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we set up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications. It's fundamentally a skills and planning exercise. It's one thing to talk about setting up a station quickly in an unprepared location, and another thing to actually *do* it. Operating skills get practiced. Teamwork and learning to deal with volunteers, both as a leader and as a team member. Yes there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know when our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond and deal with it as best as we can. But you guys have training sessions, right? Twice a month as required by law, and also sometimes more than that. In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that to be desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that emergency would occur....... Sure. You may need to be operating while ill from something or be putting your life at serious risk at the time. You may be up for several days without sleep. You may be injured. Heck, even the person you are trying to communicate with may only have a CW rig. So you can't even begin to simulate truly accurate emergency condx. You can't simulate all of them by any means, but FD simulates some of them. I wasn't saying that we can simulate all but I do think we should be simulating in more realistic locations. That is provided that we can get permission to set up there, as it is not actually during an emergency. Under most real emergency circumstances, some emergency personell is going to tell you to go to a certain place, and operate a certain transciever. You won't set up a tent or put together a station or anything. Maybe. Or it might go the other way - you may be asked to go to a certain location and bring everything you need along. The purpose of FD is to in large prt get peopl simply *thinking* about emergency ops, and *doing* some simulated ops. Bingo! Dunno where tha hyper accurate emergency scenario that I hear about came from. Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director decides the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far outwieghs any other aspect of field day. The trick is to balance all the different aspects. Here's a scenario for ya: Months in advance, everyone who wants to participate is required to fill out a form listing what equipment, time, and skills they can volunteer for FD. Everyone is responsible for keeping their FD forms updated of changes (equipment /schedule changes, license upgrades, etc.) The forms are collected and the FD committee of no more than 3 people puts together a Field Day master plan. 48-72 hours before FD, everyone who is signed up gets their "sealed orders" which detail where they are to go, what they are expected to bring with them and what they are expected to do for FD. It could be as simple as "show up at X on or before time T and operate station S" or as complex as "head the team running station S, bring a this list of equipment..." Included could be things bringing like foul-weather gear even though the forecast is perfect. You don't have to wear it but you have to have it with you. Could also simulate equipment breakdowns and unavailability - although that sort of thing often happens anyway. Except for the FD committee, nobody knows what they're going to be doing until shortly before FD. To more realistically simulate, some very good resources (rigs, antennas, generators, etc.) might be left completely unused while less than perfect substitutes are pressed into service. You'd probably love a Field Day like that, Ryan. Would be a great learning experience for all. But I can guarantee you that more than half (probably more than 3/4) of the FD regulars in your club would walk away if the club tried such a plan cold turkey. Actually, with a little bit of fine tuning, I believe that would be even better than my idea. My idea was that we WILL know which weekend, but the location won't be announced till either that morning OR the night before, and we have to adapt. And that location being decided (where possible) by the county EC/RO. Actually in our specific case, we hold a regular net on Thursdays, so that would be the best I would imagine...... Best way to control where the site is is to become an EC. The you can do as YOUR philosophical desires dictate. Are you willing to do that? And if you are, how will you deal with the inevitable disputes that will arise? Remember, these folks are all volunteers, bringing their own equipment with them. Related item. I was in a club years ago where I was in charge of our biggest fund raiser. Some of the club members didn't like how I was doing things (specifically, my methods required some work) But we made a LOT of money for a small club. So they led a revolt against me, supported by the club prez of refusing to help me or work for me. My only option that didn't make me look like an idiot was to resign from my position and chairmanship and the club. I was ironically the Vice president. The result? Remember how they thought that my working demands were too much? I wanted 4 hours of work per year per club member. You said the big bad C word - commitment. Well, no one wanted to work even after they got ride of the ******* - me, so they ended up hiring three people to do my job (keeping in mind, I did it for nuttin'), subbed out the most lucrative part of the job, and now make absolutely no money on a fund raiser that was bringing in a lot of money every year. They are actually in money trouble now. Smart people weren't they? bwaahaahaa - great story, Mike. Point is, be good to the volunteers, and if you don't like what they are doing, do better. Most of all, understand that FD is very different things to very different people. 73 de Jim, N2EY Ryan KC8PMX |
"William" wrote in message om... "Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ... "Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message ... Subject: Field Day Plans? From: "Ryan, KC8PMX" Date: 6/24/2004 11:20 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: Will be running KC8PMX on 50Mhz-450Mhz bands. I was thinking a shorter call would help, but I ran those phonetics thru my mind a couple times, and "PAPA MIKE X-RAY" seems to me to be rather prominent. It's not too bad, although I wished I would have gotten a different call when originally assigned. I might purposefully go for the vanity call of K8KEA, just to be a pain in the ass because our club call is W8KEA. hi hi Can't we all just get along? Well, I guess I have never been a conformist, or one to be a "bump on the log" type as I see so many are..... LOL I just hate my suffix.... never liked it from the start, but never gotten around to changing it either through vanity call process or simple reassignment through the pool. Decided to run on my own as a matter of passive resistance to the local club's field day planner. Field day is supposed to be an emergency preparedness scenario, and there is nothing close to that from what I see of the plans locally here. How's that, Ryan...??? Too much of the picnic-in-the-park thing? No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing by the school that is). Let me guess. He's an Extra? Nope, but license class has nothing to do with it..... Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency simulation. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we set up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications. Yes there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know when our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond and deal with it as best as we can. Should be points for real emergency locations rather than setting up at KOA. Well, we can speculate as to "where" a potential emergency will happen till the cows come home. The issue I had at hand was merely the choice of location.... its SO buried from the general public, the PR value was not worth a damn for our FD. In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that to be desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that emergency would occur....... Hmmmm. Yeah.... its not like you can plan for when your house will burn down or you get into a bad wreck, or whatever. :) Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director decides the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far outwieghs any other aspect of field day. Elevate this idea to ARRL. County EC selects operating locations. Keeps secret. Makes the assignment 2 hours before test starts. The only glitch I could see there, is obviously for counties without an EC. Someone else would have to be qualified to choose then...... Not sure who, but I am sure someone could figure that one out. Extra points, of course. If that plan is followed, of course. :) Ryan KC8PMX |
"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ...
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , Mike Coslo writes: But you guys have training sessions, right? Twice a month as required by law, and also sometimes more than that. Well, there you go. For a lot of hams, Field Day is their only and/or first training. You can't simulate all of them by any means, but FD simulates some of them. I wasn't saying that we can simulate all but I do think we should be simulating in more realistic locations. That is provided that we can get permission to set up there, as it is not actually during an emergency. The question is, what constitutes a "realistic" location? Depending on the type of emergency, all sorts of sites are realistic. For example, look at the search for shuttle parts. People were spread out over a large area, and needed communications over relatively short paths but in many directions - in rural areas, mostly. One of the biggest challenges of FD has become finding a site. Consider what we want to do: - Make noise all night long - Put wires and tubing high in the air during a time of year when thunderstorms are common - Pound things into the ground, set up tents, cook food, etc. - Be away from noise generators like power lines. Plus there's the whole liability question... Here's a scenario for ya: Months in advance, everyone who wants to participate is required to fill out a form listing what equipment, time, and skills they can volunteer for FD. Everyone is responsible for keeping their FD forms updated of changes (equipment /schedule changes, license upgrades, etc.) The forms are collected and the FD committee of no more than 3 people puts together a Field Day master plan. 48-72 hours before FD, everyone who is signed up gets their "sealed orders" which detail where they are to go, what they are expected to bring with them and what they are expected to do for FD. It could be as simple as "show up at X on or before time T and operate station S" or as complex as "head the team running station S, bring a this list of equipment..." Included could be things bringing like foul-weather gear even though the forecast is perfect. You don't have to wear it but you have to have it with you. Could also simulate equipment breakdowns and unavailability - although that sort of thing often happens anyway. Except for the FD committee, nobody knows what they're going to be doing until shortly before FD. To more realistically simulate, some very good resources (rigs, antennas, generators, etc.) might be left completely unused while less than perfect substitutes are pressed into service. You'd probably love a Field Day like that, Ryan. Would be a great learning experience for all. But I can guarantee you that more than half (probably more than 3/4) of the FD regulars in your club would walk away if the club tried such a plan cold turkey. Actually, with a little bit of fine tuning, I believe that would be even better than my idea. Thanks! My idea was that we WILL know which weekend, but the location won't be announced till either that morning OR the night before, and we have to adapt. That's in my idea too. The date would be about the only thing known in advance outside of the planning committee. And that location being decided (where possible) by the county EC/RO. Actually in our specific case, we hold a regular net on Thursdays, so that would be the best I would imagine...... There ya go. And the committee could toss in all sorts of surprises: Somebody brings a nice new rig, makes 100 contacts, and then a committee person suddenly slaps a red post-it on the thing. Which means it's busted and cannot be used for X hours. Team has to improvise another rig and get back on the air ASAP. Or maybe the announcement is made on Thursday night that *all* antennas have to be homebrewed at the site, starting no earlier than 24 hours before FD. Bring all the coax, wire, rope, connectors, line, insulators, tubing and PVC you want, but everything in the antennas has to be built from-scratch. As I said before, if you drop something like this on most people cold-turkey they'll rebel or simply vote with their feet. But if they're brought to it gradually... 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote in message m... "Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ... "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , Mike Coslo writes: But you guys have training sessions, right? Twice a month as required by law, and also sometimes more than that. Well, there you go. For a lot of hams, Field Day is their only and/or first training. You can't simulate all of them by any means, but FD simulates some of them. I wasn't saying that we can simulate all but I do think we should be simulating in more realistic locations. That is provided that we can get permission to set up there, as it is not actually during an emergency. The question is, what constitutes a "realistic" location? Depending on the type of emergency, all sorts of sites are realistic. For example, look at the search for shuttle parts. People were spread out over a large area, and needed communications over relatively short paths but in many directions - in rural areas, mostly. One of the biggest challenges of FD has become finding a site. Consider what we want to do: - Make noise all night long - Put wires and tubing high in the air during a time of year when thunderstorms are common - Pound things into the ground, set up tents, cook food, etc. - Be away from noise generators like power lines. Plus there's the whole liability question... Here's a scenario for ya: Months in advance, everyone who wants to participate is required to fill out a form listing what equipment, time, and skills they can volunteer for FD. Everyone is responsible for keeping their FD forms updated of changes (equipment /schedule changes, license upgrades, etc.) The forms are collected and the FD committee of no more than 3 people puts together a Field Day master plan. 48-72 hours before FD, everyone who is signed up gets their "sealed orders" which detail where they are to go, what they are expected to bring with them and what they are expected to do for FD. It could be as simple as "show up at X on or before time T and operate station S" or as complex as "head the team running station S, bring a this list of equipment..." Included could be things bringing like foul-weather gear even though the forecast is perfect. You don't have to wear it but you have to have it with you. Could also simulate equipment breakdowns and unavailability - although that sort of thing often happens anyway. Except for the FD committee, nobody knows what they're going to be doing until shortly before FD. To more realistically simulate, some very good resources (rigs, antennas, generators, etc.) might be left completely unused while less than perfect substitutes are pressed into service. You'd probably love a Field Day like that, Ryan. Would be a great learning experience for all. But I can guarantee you that more than half (probably more than 3/4) of the FD regulars in your club would walk away if the club tried such a plan cold turkey. Actually, with a little bit of fine tuning, I believe that would be even better than my idea. Thanks! My idea was that we WILL know which weekend, but the location won't be announced till either that morning OR the night before, and we have to adapt. That's in my idea too. The date would be about the only thing known in advance outside of the planning committee. And that location being decided (where possible) by the county EC/RO. Actually in our specific case, we hold a regular net on Thursdays, so that would be the best I would imagine...... There ya go. And the committee could toss in all sorts of surprises: Somebody brings a nice new rig, makes 100 contacts, and then a committee person suddenly slaps a red post-it on the thing. Which means it's busted and cannot be used for X hours. Team has to improvise another rig and get back on the air ASAP. Or maybe the announcement is made on Thursday night that *all* antennas have to be homebrewed at the site, starting no earlier than 24 hours before FD. Bring all the coax, wire, rope, connectors, line, insulators, tubing and PVC you want, but everything in the antennas has to be built from-scratch. As I said before, if you drop something like this on most people cold-turkey they'll rebel or simply vote with their feet. But if they're brought to it gradually... 73 de Jim, N2EY True, as it stands right now, it looks like the group is gonna splinter off into two distinct groups. So, probably next year you guys can work 2 different Midland County, Michigan stations. The "old school" group will do things their way, and the "new school" group can do things their own way too.... Almost sounds like a second club overall forming for this county instead of just the one. Ryan KC8PMX |
"N2EY" wrote in message m... "Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ... "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , Mike Coslo writes: But you guys have training sessions, right? Twice a month as required by law, and also sometimes more than that. Well, there you go. For a lot of hams, Field Day is their only and/or first training. You can't simulate all of them by any means, but FD simulates some of them. I wasn't saying that we can simulate all but I do think we should be simulating in more realistic locations. That is provided that we can get permission to set up there, as it is not actually during an emergency. The question is, what constitutes a "realistic" location? Depending on the type of emergency, all sorts of sites are realistic. For example, look at the search for shuttle parts. People were spread out over a large area, and needed communications over relatively short paths but in many directions - in rural areas, mostly. One of the biggest challenges of FD has become finding a site. Consider what we want to do: - Make noise all night long - Put wires and tubing high in the air during a time of year when thunderstorms are common - Pound things into the ground, set up tents, cook food, etc. - Be away from noise generators like power lines. Plus there's the whole liability question... I agree with ya on the liability issue.... There is a clear difference between gaining access in a true emergency versus gaining access to a property for an alleged "training exersize." In a real emergency, especially one involved under that marshall law concept, you could be placed anywhere the command structure wants you to set up, regardless of property owner's permission or not. I do have to base the next line or two by stating it to be relating to where I live locally, but I beleive that logically we as ARES/RACES would most likely be set up in or at places like county/city owned properties/buildings, quite possibly hospitals, law enforcement/fire/ems buildings, the red cross etc. Logic would dictate to me that as a reasonable guess as to where we personally would most likely set up in a real emergency. (as one larger group OR as individual smaller stations) Ryan KC8PMX |
In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX"
writes: it looks like the group is gonna splinter off into two distinct groups. Happens all the time. Some "clubs" exist solely to put on Field Day. So, probably next year you guys can work 2 different Midland County, Michigan stations. More points for me. That's a good thing. The "old school" group will do things their way, and the "new school" group can do things their own way too.... Almost sounds like a second club overall forming for this county instead of just the one. Better than fighting. And often both groups learn something in the process! 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX" writes: it looks like the group is gonna splinter off into two distinct groups. Happens all the time. Some "clubs" exist solely to put on Field Day. So, probably next year you guys can work 2 different Midland County, Michigan stations. More points for me. That's a good thing. The "old school" group will do things their way, and the "new school" group can do things their own way too.... Almost sounds like a second club overall forming for this county instead of just the one. Better than fighting. And often both groups learn something in the process! 73 de Jim, N2EY Unfortunately, many times the club sizes drop below "critical mass" and both end up folding. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX"
writes: I agree with ya on the liability issue.... There is a clear difference between gaining access in a true emergency versus gaining access to a property for an alleged "training exersize." In a real emergency, especially one involved under that marshall law concept, you could be placed anywhere the command structure wants you to set up, regardless of property owner's permission or not. Yep. The problem of getting a site varies all over the place. In some areas all you need do is ask. In others there's all sorts of paperwork. A club with active ARES folks obvioulsy has an edge over one that doesn't, but even that connection is no guarantee. There's also the very real factor of do you go for visibility, convenience or radio performance in a site? (Rare are the sites that combine all three). I do have to base the next line or two by stating it to be relating to where I live locally, but I beleive that logically we as ARES/RACES would most likely be set up in or at places like county/city owned properties/buildings, quite possibly hospitals, law enforcement/fire/ems buildings, the red cross etc. Logic would dictate to me that as a reasonable guess as to where we personally would most likely set up in a real emergency. (as one larger group OR as individual smaller stations) Even then, it's subject to wide variation depending on the nature of the emergency. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes: Unfortunately, many times the club sizes drop below "critical mass" and both end up folding. Yes, that does happen. However, FD can be done at any level, from a one-person show to massive multi-multi operation with dozens of transmitters on the air and hundreds of people involved. The appropriately-callsigned N1FD operation is one example of the latter. Last year I did a low-intensity solo effort - 1B-1 battery. Still made over 2400 points. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message ...
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX" writes: it looks like the group is gonna splinter off into two distinct groups. Happens all the time. Some "clubs" exist solely to put on Field Day. So, probably next year you guys can work 2 different Midland County, Michigan stations. More points for me. That's a good thing. The "old school" group will do things their way, and the "new school" group can do things their own way too.... Almost sounds like a second club overall forming for this county instead of just the one. Better than fighting. And often both groups learn something in the process! 73 de Jim, N2EY Unfortunately, many times the club sizes drop below "critical mass" and both end up folding. Oddly we have the reverse scenario here. Four clubs pool their resources and put together a single joint FD operation. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv |
(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , (Steve Robeson K4CAP) writes: Well, well...Brain manages an idea that doesn't insult anyone and actually has some merit. Put THIS day on the calendar! Snarl, nursie, snarl. Nursie manages to sneer insults at others with ideas. Good boy. Sic 'em. He still dunno what IS is, and he still can't spell name right. Nursie have problem playing well with others. He demand all others think like him. Not think like nursie? Bad. Do ethnic cleansing, using scrub brush of nastygrams, mean dissing and cussing. Probby fell off monkey bar when kid and hit his shoulder. Big not grow on top an call it head. Nursie wanna commit all who not think like him. Nursie think he sane. Probably not. Old fruitcake. Think he Chairman Mao. Run his tank over people. One day all people say "Enuf." Not yet day. Other PCTA not yet embarassed enuf by his antic. Soon. Not good PR for hum raddio. Nursie not learn what means phrase "let it be." He poster boy for sumptin. Hamateur Radio not want him. Temper fry... Indeed. |
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "Dee D. Flint" writes: Unfortunately, many times the club sizes drop below "critical mass" and both end up folding. Yes, that does happen. However, FD can be done at any level, from a one-person show to massive multi-multi operation with dozens of transmitters on the air and hundreds of people involved. The appropriately-callsigned N1FD operation is one example of the latter. Last year I did a low-intensity solo effort - 1B-1 battery. Still made over 2400 points. 73 de Jim, N2EY That's basically what I was trying to get at. People can do FD on their own or with a club but it may be better NOT to split off as a separate club. We have some members who do FD on their own in our club or they belong to more than one club already and do FD with them. But they do not go form yet another club. I think doing different things year to year is good. Our club tried different antennas this year for example. Next year I and the OM my try going on our own just for variety simply to see what two people can do. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Brian Kelly" wrote in message m... "Dee D. Flint" wrote in message ... [snip] Unfortunately, many times the club sizes drop below "critical mass" and both end up folding. Oddly we have the reverse scenario here. Four clubs pool their resources and put together a single joint FD operation. That's an excellent idea too as learning to coordinate such an effort is valuable training. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
In article ,
(William) writes: (Len Over 21) wrote in message ... In article , (Steve Robeson K4CAP) writes: Well, well...Brain manages an idea that doesn't insult anyone and actually has some merit. Put THIS day on the calendar! Snarl, nursie, snarl. Nursie manages to sneer insults at others with ideas. Good boy. Sic 'em. He still dunno what IS is, and he still can't spell name right. A closet DEMOCRAT pretending to be a repub... :-) Nursie have problem playing well with others. He demand all others think like him. Not think like nursie? Bad. Do ethnic cleansing, using scrub brush of nastygrams, mean dissing and cussing. Probby fell off monkey bar when kid and hit his shoulder. Big not grow on top an call it head. Must have been in a kibbutz...where he learned Yiddish swear words from mittle european immigrant kids. :-) Nursie wanna commit all who not think like him. Nursie think he sane. Probably not. Old fruitcake. Think he Chairman Mao. Run his tank over people. One day all people say "Enuf." Not yet day. Other PCTA not yet embarassed enuf by his antic. Soon. Hmmm...the thoughts of THIS chairman won't fill a book...more like half a page. Not good PR for hum raddio. Nursie not learn what means phrase "let it be." He poster boy for sumptin. Hamateur Radio not want him. He want SERVICE belong to. Have uniforms, pretty medals and insignia, stand in ranks, march to drumbeat. Hup, hup, hup... Temper fry... Indeed. Have a good 4th! Len |
(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , (William) writes: (Len Over 21) wrote in message ... In article , (Steve Robeson K4CAP) writes: Well, well...Brain manages an idea that doesn't insult anyone and actually has some merit. Put THIS day on the calendar! Snarl, nursie, snarl. Nursie manages to sneer insults at others with ideas. Good boy. Sic 'em. He still dunno what IS is, and he still can't spell name right. A closet DEMOCRAT pretending to be a repub... :-) Lotsa Dems aroun dese days. Some ack like Yell Yell Marine. Nursie have problem playing well with others. He demand all others think like him. Not think like nursie? Bad. Do ethnic cleansing, using scrub brush of nastygrams, mean dissing and cussing. Probby fell off monkey bar when kid and hit his shoulder. Big not grow on top an call it head. Must have been in a kibbutz...where he learned Yiddish swear words from mittle european immigrant kids. :-) Poor little kid. All them mean peeples swearing at him. Nursie wanna commit all who not think like him. Nursie think he sane. Probably not. Old fruitcake. Think he Chairman Mao. Run his tank over people. One day all people say "Enuf." Not yet day. Other PCTA not yet embarassed enuf by his antic. Soon. Hmmm...the thoughts of THIS chairman won't fill a book...more like half a page. Add his photo in that puffy flight suit, put in a fold, and call it a brochure. Not good PR for hum raddio. Nursie not learn what means phrase "let it be." He poster boy for sumptin. Hamateur Radio not want him. He want SERVICE belong to. Have uniforms, pretty medals and insignia, stand in ranks, march to drumbeat. Hup, hup, hup... Salvation Army looking for a few good whatever he is. Temper fry... Indeed. Have a good 4th! The best! |
Subject: Field Day Plans?
From: (William) Date: 7/3/2004 8:03 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: He still dunno what IS is, and he still can't spell name right. Probby fell off monkey bar when kid and hit his shoulder. Big not grow on top an call it head. Think he Chairman Mao. Run his tank over people. One day all people say "Enuf." Not yet day. Other PCTA not yet embarassed enuf by his antic. Soon. He poster boy for sumptin. Hamateur Radio not want him. Indeed. I am sure there wasa a message in here, but it seems the author is having a relapse to toddler years. Too bad for him. Steve, K4YZ |
In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes: People can do FD on their own or with a club but it may be better NOT to split off as a separate club. We have some members who do FD on their own in our club or they belong to more than one club already and do FD with them. But they do not go form yet another club. Ah - now I see. Evenutally you have a lot of little clubs, none of which have critical mass to do anyhting serious. I think doing different things year to year is good. Our club tried different antennas this year for example. Next year I and the OM my try going on our own just for variety simply to see what two people can do. A lot depends on what goals are defined and resources available. For max points, it's important to be ready to go on right at 2 PM (1 PM your time?) and run all through the 24 hours with no breaks. Which usually means starting setup before Saturday morning and going all night. OTOH, sometimes FD can be a shakedown for bigger things. Like trying out an antenna "in the field" before committing all the work needed by a permanent home installation. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "Dee D. Flint" writes: People can do FD on their own or with a club but it may be better NOT to split off as a separate club. We have some members who do FD on their own in our club or they belong to more than one club already and do FD with them. But they do not go form yet another club. Ah - now I see. Evenutally you have a lot of little clubs, none of which have critical mass to do anyhting serious. Precisely! I think doing different things year to year is good. Our club tried different antennas this year for example. Next year I and the OM my try going on our own just for variety simply to see what two people can do. A lot depends on what goals are defined and resources available. For max points, it's important to be ready to go on right at 2 PM (1 PM your time?) and run all through the 24 hours with no breaks. Which usually means starting setup before Saturday morning and going all night. I'm in the Eastern time zone. With just I and the OM running (if we go that route), we will set our goals so that we will NOT try to run 24 hours. Neither one of us fairs all that well on lack of sleep. OTOH, sometimes FD can be a shakedown for bigger things. Like trying out an antenna "in the field" before committing all the work needed by a permanent home installation. 73 de Jim, N2EY Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:22 PM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RadioBanter.com