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In article , Dave Heil Mother Superior adjust
her robes and preaches by writing: Len Over 21 wrote: In article , (Stevie Stalker, Exxtra Ethnic Cleanser, swallowed his Fleet Kit and barfed up the following shortie) : Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPM From: (William) Date: 7/19/2004 6:04 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: Won't matter. When Len hits 20 years in the amateur service, these guys will have 50. Len will still be "wet behind the ears." The license just doesn't matter with these guys - it's merely their excuse to act like idiots. More excuses. Yes, more excuses for the olde-tyme hamme raddio licensees to vent their personal frustrations by finding faults (that done exist) in others who have far more experience than they do in radio. Not just "more experience" but "far more experience". Far FAR more! Centuries! Millennia! Billions! Right now I've got 51 years of HF radio "experience." That's longer than you or many others have existed. shrug And when you were in your twenties, thirties, forties and fifties there existed on the planet those with far more HF radio experience than you. Fantastic! Mother Superior is RIGHT again! The light shining from your brilliance is blinding... After your passing from this mortal plane, others will catch up with your experience or surpass it. Your experience will have stopped cold and theirs will go on. Most of those folks will exist after you have ceased to exist. That's just the way life works. Ah, but the Olde Wuns, the Olde-Tyme Hamatuers will LIVE FOREVER! They will never cease! They are Immortal! Legends! You've gotten all tangled up. Only when in the company of Immortal Superior beings such as yourself. No mortal can survie the onslaught of the Superiors! There's no Blessed and Sacred or any of those other things. No? I'm disappointed. The Church of St. Hiram doesn't exist? There are those with amateur radio licenses and there are those without. Far more without than with. Sorry, Mother Superior, but that IS true. [put away your ruler, no spanking of knuckles...] You've declared an interest. In ALL radio. Worked at it. Changed majors to become an engineer. Did it. Retired successfully. You've posted here for about nine years. That long? Oh, my, it has seemed an eternity... :-) You've not taken a single step toward obtaining an amateur radio license. "Not a single step?" Tsk, tsk. I've walked into an HRO store. Two of them, in fact. Bought a nice Icom R-70 in the first one. Paid cash. Oh, yes. I forgot! Ordinary mortals aren't ALLOWED to speak their mind in here if they don't have that blessed amateur license! Forgive me, Mother Superior. Well, Old Master, the cannon fodder, Armed Militia, paint-by-numbers stuff just marks you as a crackpot non-participant in amateur radio with a newsgroup fetish. "Cannon fodder?" I was in Signal Corps in the Army, not Artillery. "Armed militia?" I've seen militiamen in here but all seem to be mental paraplegics. "Paint-by-numbers?" Never did that. I'm also a professional illustrator. Don't need them. "Crackpot?" I've never done any ceramics but have seen it done. Some pots did get cracked. Sort of like the posters in here. "Old Master?" Nope. Can't take that title at all. It would cause you all sorts of grief and charges of Title-Stealing! :-) Say hello to the other gods on Mt. Olympus for me. Have fun looking down on mortals in the Summer Olympics. :-) LHA / WMD |
In article , Dave Heil
writes: Len Over 21 wrote: In article , Robert Casey writes: Len, just get the damm license. Just for the purpose of settling a very few newsgrope irregulars who are irritated by controversy? :-) No, Len, to satisfy your several decades of self-declared interest in amateur radio and to be able to hold your head up after your "Extra right out of the box" boast. I've had an interest in ALL radio for half a century. Worked in lots of different radio services during that time. Guess that isn't the same as the oh-so-very-different amateur radio. You must think amateur radio works by different physics principles than all other radio? Riiiiiight. Amateur radio is special, very different, not at all like all other radio, much more superior, much more noble, glorious, etc., etc., etc. Don't just read about it, Len. Experience it first hand. Too difficult for ordinary people. Amateur radio is so much MORE than all other radio and no ordinary person can measure up to your superiority and tenure in amateur radio. Nossir. Trying to be as superior as yourself is a non-starter. Can't be done. If you want an HF amateur license, it is considered important. You could always tackle a code free ticket though. I don't have any interest on getting an HF AMATEUR license. I've been on HF, both in the military and commercial radio field. I've been on HF without any amateur license earlier this year, all very legal. I've never had to learn or use any manual telegraphy in 51 years of actual communicating on HF. Then again, you've never held an amateur radio license. Right! Wow, Heil, you are sure so superior! Amazing. Morse code skill is an anachronism. Sure it is, Leonard. So is AM. So is SSB. So is baudot RTTY. Morse code was first used in 1844. No "AM" then, no "SSB," no "baudot RTTY." :-) I haven't used "baudot RTTY" or even "Baudot TTY" in decades. Old stuff. It's been 8-level ASCII TTY coding for over three decades, olde tymer. 100 WPM equivalent sustained throughput on those old electromagnetic TTY machines...much faster with electronic terminals. Morse code is 160 years old this year. Well before radio was ever demonstrated as a communicaitons mediium. It was once very useful but no longer. It's use is now relegated to helping self-important, superior amateurs denigrate those who don't care for slow, manual on-off keying anachronistic communication modes. Only amateurs use it with any regularity and then those are only a few amateurs, a minority. Only a few amateurs using morse? You're as wrong about that as you were about Fessenden. Okay, big superior one, give us the EXACT number of morse users on the amateur ranks. USING morse regularly. Yes, we all know that you are as good as a hundred or even a thousand ordinary radio amateurs but that inflation is not allowed for the EXACT number. Prove your work. I did it and I'm no good at sort of "motor skill" kind of thing. Not a good reason for me to waste my time trying to re-enact the past. You have to get out more. Thousands and thousands of radio amateurs use morse in the present. ...and many more than "thousands and thousands of radio amateurs" are NOT using morse code. So? Then get on the air some. Been there, done that, from LF on up to microwaves. Not as a radio amateur, you haven't. Right again! Oh, frabjous joy, the SUPERIOR one shows how good he IS! :-) My friend Jack has a license and experience. You don't know Jack. [don't give up your day job...stand-up comedy is not your forte'] I went all through high school with John Hof. Nobody called him "Jack." :-) Ham radio works by different principles than all other radios. That's what I'm told. I don't believe them, but lots of hams do. Operating principles are not the sum total of amateur radio. Riiiiiiight!!!!! It is the mindset, the glory, the nobility, the imagination, and the fantasy of THE AMATEUR SERVICE! The few, the proud, the United States Amateur Corps! Be all that you can be...and more! Wear that superiority proudly...show others who's Boss around here! [all that for a hobby...] As far as morseodism is concerned, I'm an atheist. I don't worship at the Church of St. Hiram. Put away your collection plate and Him books. I get it. Because you don't find anything in which to believe, the rest of us aren't supposed to take part for fear of offending you. How very PC. Separate church and state, Mother Superior. "PC?" My Personal Computer works very well, thank you. No license needed to use it, certainly no morse code skill needed with it. It can reach around the world wherever there's an Internet connection without any worry about HF propagation conditions. But...you were talking "political correctness" weren't you? Of course. Everyone has to Believe your personal political correctness or be constantly damned as a heretic. No problem. You go ahead and act as superior as you've always done. :-) All us readers can expect nothing else. You ARE superior. LHA / WMD |
In article , Dave Heil
writes: Gotta love that "Weapons of Mass Distraction" sig. Incorrect. Weapon of MORSE Destruction. :-) Said so quite a while ago. Pamper up, old timer. Time for you to get regular. LHA / WMD |
In article , Mike Coslo
writes: Some time back, I proposed a three-class license structure here. One of the requirements was a year experience at each level. Boy did that catch flak! Was that before I came in? I would support that! Here's one version - note the date, and this wasn't the first incarnation: From: N2EY ) Subject: What SHOULD ham licenses test for? View: Complete Thread (212 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy Date: 2002-05-23 13:18:22 PST (some snippage) So the following license structure/test structure is suggested: 1) Three classes of license: Basic, Intermediate, Full (change the names if you don't like them) 2) HF/MF bands split into subbands by mode and split again by license class. Some bands may be split by mode only. ("Mode" meaning "narrow/CW/digital" vs. "wide/analog phone-image/digital" 3) "Basic" license test is simple 20-25 question exam on regs, procedures, and safety. Very little technical and RF exposure stuff. Main objective is to keep Basics out of trouble. Basics get 100-150 watts on HF/MF and 25 watts or so on VHF/UHF (power level determined by RF exposure limits). Modes are CW, analog voice, PSK31 and many of the other common data modes like packet. Basics cannot be VEs, control ops for repeaters, or club trustees. Basics get most VHF/UHF and about half of HF/MF spectrum. Basic is meant as the entry level. Easy to get, lots of privs, yet there's still a reason to upgrade. 4) "Intermediate" license test is more complex 50-60 question exam on regs, procedures, safety and technical stuff. Intermediates get 300-400 watts on all bands, all modes. Intermediates can be VEs after qualification (see below), control ops for repeaters, and club trustees. Intermediates get all VHF/UHF and about three quarters (or more) of HF/MF spectrum. Intermediate requires at least one year experience as a Basic. 5) "Full" license test is quite complex 100-120 question exam on regs, procedures, safety and technical stuff. Mostly technical, with some regs to cover expanded privs. Fulls get all privileges, modes, bands, etc. except that Fulls can be VEs only after qualification (see below). Full license requires at least one year (preferably two years) as an Intermediate. 6) All licenses are 10 year and fully renewable/modifiable. 7) Basics have six-character calls, Intermediates have five- or six-character calls, and Fulls have four-, five-, or six-character calls. Nobody has to give up an existing callsign. 8) There is a separate 30-35 question test for VE qualification, open to Intermediates and Fulls, which allows them to be VEs. Existing VEs are grandfathered. 9) Existing Novices become Basics, existing Techs, Tech Pluses, Generals and Advanceds become Intermediates, and existing Extras become Fulls. 10) Experience requirement is not waived for existing hams to upgrade, but their time in existing classes counts. End result is a system that is easy to get into (Basic is envisioned as a 21st century version of the Novice) and has reasonable but meaningful steps to reach full privileges. Testing matches the privs granted. Power levels are set about one S-unit apart. Current hams would be allowed to use the existing power levels so nobody loses privileges. There are only three license classes and four written tests, so FCC doesn't have more work. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
In article et, "Bill Sohl"
writes: Where I don't see any need for time in grade is between the entry level (i.e. beginner) and the intermediate (e.g. General). Why not? Perhaps that's why you got such major flak. I think there were other reasons.... 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes: Some time back, I proposed a three-class license structure here. One of the requirements was a year experience at each level. Boy did that catch flak! Was that before I came in? I would support that! Here's one version - note the date, and this wasn't the first incarnation: From: N2EY ) Subject: What SHOULD ham licenses test for? View: Complete Thread (212 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy Date: 2002-05-23 13:18:22 PST (some snippage) So the following license structure/test structure is suggested: 1) Three classes of license: Basic, Intermediate, Full (change the names if you don't like them) 2) HF/MF bands split into subbands by mode and split again by license class. Some bands may be split by mode only. ("Mode" meaning "narrow/CW/digital" vs. "wide/analog phone-image/digital" 3) "Basic" license test is simple 20-25 question exam on regs, procedures, and safety. Very little technical and RF exposure stuff. Main objective is to keep Basics out of trouble. Basics get 100-150 watts on HF/MF and 25 watts or so on VHF/UHF (power level determined by RF exposure limits). Modes are CW, analog voice, PSK31 and many of the other common data modes like packet. Basics cannot be VEs, control ops for repeaters, or club trustees. Basics get most VHF/UHF and about half of HF/MF spectrum. Basic is meant as the entry level. Easy to get, lots of privs, yet there's still a reason to upgrade. 4) "Intermediate" license test is more complex 50-60 question exam on regs, procedures, safety and technical stuff. Intermediates get 300-400 watts on all bands, all modes. Intermediates can be VEs after qualification (see below), control ops for repeaters, and club trustees. Intermediates get all VHF/UHF and about three quarters (or more) of HF/MF spectrum. Intermediate requires at least one year experience as a Basic. 5) "Full" license test is quite complex 100-120 question exam on regs, procedures, safety and technical stuff. Mostly technical, with some regs to cover expanded privs. Fulls get all privileges, modes, bands, etc. except that Fulls can be VEs only after qualification (see below). Full license requires at least one year (preferably two years) as an Intermediate. 6) All licenses are 10 year and fully renewable/modifiable. 7) Basics have six-character calls, Intermediates have five- or six-character calls, and Fulls have four-, five-, or six-character calls. Nobody has to give up an existing callsign. 8) There is a separate 30-35 question test for VE qualification, open to Intermediates and Fulls, which allows them to be VEs. Existing VEs are grandfathered. 9) Existing Novices become Basics, existing Techs, Tech Pluses, Generals and Advanceds become Intermediates, and existing Extras become Fulls. 10) Experience requirement is not waived for existing hams to upgrade, but their time in existing classes counts. End result is a system that is easy to get into (Basic is envisioned as a 21st century version of the Novice) and has reasonable but meaningful steps to reach full privileges. Testing matches the privs granted. Power levels are set about one S-unit apart. Current hams would be allowed to use the existing power levels so nobody loses privileges. There are only three license classes and four written tests, so FCC doesn't have more work. All sounds good to me, Jim. I don't see any show stoppers or anything dum. - mike KB3EIA - |
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Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Dave Heil Mother Superior adjust her robes and preaches by writing: Len Over 21 wrote: In article , (Stevie Stalker, Exxtra Ethnic Cleanser, swallowed his Fleet Kit and barfed up the following shortie) : Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPM From: (William) Date: 7/19/2004 6:04 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: Right now I've got 51 years of HF radio "experience." That's longer than you or many others have existed. shrug And when you were in your twenties, thirties, forties and fifties there existed on the planet those with far more HF radio experience than you. Fantastic! Mother Superior is RIGHT again! Don't be surprised, Leonard. It happens frequently. The light shining from your brilliance is blinding... For a man who finds it blinding now, you seemed to have a little difficulty with the concept earlier. After your passing from this mortal plane, others will catch up with your experience or surpass it. Your experience will have stopped cold and theirs will go on. Most of those folks will exist after you have ceased to exist. That's just the way life works. Ah, but the Olde Wuns, the Olde-Tyme Hamatuers will LIVE FOREVER! They will never cease! They are Immortal! Legends! Oh? Is this is the part where you drift off course into your California Crackpot personna? You've gotten all tangled up. Only when in the company of Immortal Superior beings such as yourself. No mortal can survie the onslaught of the Superiors! What in the world are you babbling now? Is this more of the "You're a god/You're no god" skit? There's no Blessed and Sacred or any of those other things. No? I'm disappointed. The Church of St. Hiram doesn't exist? Don't you know? You're the person who began using the term. There are those with amateur radio licenses and there are those without. Far more without than with. Yep, and you're one of those. Sorry, Mother Superior, but that IS true. [put away your ruler, no spanking of knuckles...] You'll get no disagreement from me. Most of 'em don't feel the need to plague an amateur radio newsgroup. You've declared an interest. In ALL radio. That's incorrect. It is either that your memory has slipped a cog or else it is an outright falsehood. Worked at it. Changed majors to become an engineer. Did it. Retired successfully. Bully for you. What is all of that to amateur radio? You've posted here for about nine years. That long? Oh, my, it has seemed an eternity... :-) You should be on the reading end of your stuff. It seems longer than an eternity. You've not taken a single step toward obtaining an amateur radio license. "Not a single step?" Tsk, tsk. Tsk, tsk indeed. Not a single step. Nuttin', nada, zilch, zed, zip. I've walked into an HRO store. Two of them, in fact. You can't buy an amateur radio license. Bought a nice Icom R-70 in the first one. Paid cash. Congrats! You're an SWL. Oh, yes. I forgot! Ordinary mortals aren't ALLOWED to speak their mind in here if they don't have that blessed amateur license! You've spoken your mind. Your ideas have, in general, been found wanting. Forgive me, Mother Superior. Well, Old Master, the cannon fodder, Armed Militia, paint-by-numbers stuff just marks you as a crackpot non-participant in amateur radio with a newsgroup fetish. "Cannon fodder?" I was in Signal Corps in the Army, not Artillery. You brought up the term. "Armed militia?" I've seen militiamen in here but all seem to be mental paraplegics. You brought up the term. "Paint-by-numbers?" Never did that. I'm also a professional illustrator. Don't need them. You brought up the term. "Crackpot?" I brought up that term. It suits you. I've never done any ceramics but have seen it done. sorta like your experience in the world of amateur radio, huh? Some pots did get cracked. Sort of like the posters in here. Don't be too hard on yourself, old shard. "Old Master?" Nope. Can't take that title at all. It would cause you all sorts of grief and charges of Title-Stealing! :-) You brought that one up as well. Say hello to the other gods on Mt. Olympus for me. Have fun looking down on mortals in the Summer Olympics. :-) Still mixed up on that god/no god stuff? I won't look down on athletes participating in the Olympic games, much as licensed radio amateurs are participants in amateur radio. Been to the U.S. Olympic team's newsgroup? Maybe you can advise them on how best to regulate things. You could be a sort of self-appointed advocate for somebody-or-other. Dave K8MN |
Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Dave Heil writes: Gotta love that "Weapons of Mass Distraction" sig. Incorrect. Weapon of MORSE Destruction. :-) If that is the case, aren't you embarrassed at being seen as a puny and ineffective weapon? Dave K8MN |
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