"licensed ham" who cannot operate unsupervised. Bad idea, I say.



Control freaks are big on supervision and rank and being in charge.
People who propose the freedom to take sole responsibility for their own
actions scare the bejeebers out of them.



How long does it take a new ham to get the basics of operating
down anyway? A few hours of operating? Once he has a rig, antenna
and such set up. When I got my HF privrledes when I got my
"extra lite", I spent a lot of time listening to QSOs to try to figure
out the methods used. Then started responding to CQs and such.
One problem I find is that I can never remember the other guy's
callsign... But if it's a contester I just listen to subsequent
QSOs he has to get his call for the log. I don't compete myself.

Having a supervised only license is more brearucratic hassle than
that met learning how to operate anyway.

"Robert Casey" wrote


Having a supervised only license is more brearucratic hassle than
that met learning how to operate anyway.


Hi Bob,

I feel that the idea of a "Here, Kid, let me hold your hand and show you
how to be a ham" license would send absolutely the wrong message to new
ham 'wannabes'.

Hard-wired into the bedrock DNA of the Amateur Radio service is the
notion of experimentation, inovation, and "let's try and see if this
works". The old Novice license, with it's elementary easy examination,
and it's attitude of "Hey, kid, welcome to Amateur Radio --- now build a
station and let's see what you can do with it" appealed to this trait.
We should lobby like hell for a return to such a license, including the
non-renewable nature of it, rather than some
"store-bought-only-equipment-supervised-operation" license which would,
IMNSHO, carve the very heart and soul out of the attraction of a ham
license to the adventuresome tinker/experimenter mindset that we
desparately need to attract.

Quite frankly, anyone who was attracted to such a structured supervised
license environment doesn't belong in *MY* Amateur Radio service.
(Watch LHA spin up his rotors over that comment!)

73, de Hans, K0HB

In article , "KØHB"
writes:

"Robert Casey" wrote

Having a supervised only license is more brearucratic hassle than
that met learning how to operate anyway.

Hi Bob,

I feel that the idea of a "Here, Kid, let me hold your hand and show you
how to be a ham" license would send absolutely the wrong message to new
ham 'wannabes'.

Hard-wired into the bedrock DNA of the Amateur Radio service is the
notion of experimentation, inovation, and "let's try and see if this
works". The old Novice license, with it's elementary easy examination,
and it's attitude of "Hey, kid, welcome to Amateur Radio --- now build a
station and let's see what you can do with it" appealed to this trait.

Exactly. Particularly with young people.

We should lobby like hell for a return to such a license, including the
non-renewable nature of it, rather than some
"store-bought-only-equipment-supervised-operation" license which would,
IMNSHO, carve the very heart and soul out of the attraction of a ham
license to the adventuresome tinker/experimenter mindset that we
desparately need to attract.

While I disagree with the nonrenewable thing, all the rest is dead-on target.

Quite frankly, anyone who was attracted to such a structured supervised
license environment doesn't belong in *MY* Amateur Radio service.

Nor mine!

(Watch LHA spin up his rotors over that comment!)

You mean the non-ham who suggested an age requirement of 14 years to FCC,
and who stated he has always had trouble integrating young people into
what he considers an adult activity?

Perhaps he would agree with you about the undesirability of a student license.
After all, who would mentor *him*?

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: Another D-H* NCVEC proposal
From: "KØHB"
Date: 8/14/2004 8:08 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"Robert Casey" wrote


Having a supervised only license is more brearucratic hassle than
that met learning how to operate anyway.


Hi Bob,

I feel that the idea of a "Here, Kid, let me hold your hand and show you
how to be a ham" license would send absolutely the wrong message to new
ham 'wannabes'.

Hans, where's the "wrong message" about offering a program that provides a
structured training program for those that want it?

We ALREADY have a "wrong message" out there that says 'No one wants to
help me and I have so many questions to ask..."

A program that identified qualified "mentor stations" and "training clubs"
would directly couple these folks with people who want to help and have the
knowledge and skills to help.

Quite frankly, anyone who was attracted to such a structured supervised
license environment doesn't belong in *MY* Amateur Radio service.
(Watch LHA spin up his rotors over that comment!)

So as far as Hans Brakob is concerned, anyone who WANTS some sort of
training to help them, they can get lost.

THAT sends a message, for sure.

I am sure most of us already know what the message is.

Steve, K4YZ

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote


A program that identified qualified "mentor stations" and "training
clubs"
would directly couple these folks with people who want to help and
have the
knowledge and skills to help.


Perhaps it escaped your notice, but such a nationwide program already
exists, without big-government establishing a "supervised only, store
bought rigs only" operator class.

At their web site ARRL lists all their affiliated clubs, including
services those clubs offer such as organized training programs, club
stations, etc.

They also have established a four-level mentoring program which include
ARRL Club Mentor, ARRL Mentor, Interactive Mentor and Special Interest
Mentor.

The ARRL Club Mentor will involve the participation of ARRL-affiliated
clubs in close cooperation with ARRL Headquarters staff. Affiliated
clubs will be encouraged to actively participate in this program to
"mainstream" more people, licensed and otherwise, into Amateur Radio.
The club mentor program also has the additional benefit of potentially
increasing a club's membership as well.

The ARRL Mentor program will work through ARRL Headquarters. An ARRL
mentor is a person with an interest in mentoring--or "Elmering"--new
licensees who may or may not be members of an ARRL-affiliated club. ARRL
Headquarters staff will support these mentors, who must be ARRL members.

The Interactive Mentor is intended to aid enterprising new hams via the
ARRL Web site by providing answers to basic questions and through chat
rooms, where discourse between new hams and mentors would help new hams
to get on the air.

The Special Interest Mentor is intended to match people with interests
in advanced, specialized areas of Amateur Radio technology with mentors
who are experienced in these technologies.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Subject: Another D-H* NCVEC proposal
From: "KØHB"
Date: 8/15/2004 10:47 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: k.net


"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote


A program that identified qualified "mentor stations" and "training
clubs"
would directly couple these folks with people who want to help and
have the
knowledge and skills to help.


Perhaps it escaped your notice, but such a nationwide program already
exists, without big-government establishing a "supervised only, store
bought rigs only" operator class.

Perhaps it escaped YOUR notice, Hans, but that is not what I suggested.

I know that askling you to go back and read what I have written and
respond accordingly would be beneath you, so we'll just let that part go.

At their web site ARRL lists all their affiliated clubs, including
services those clubs offer such as organized training programs, club
stations, etc.

They also have established a four-level mentoring program which include
ARRL Club Mentor, ARRL Mentor, Interactive Mentor and Special Interest
Mentor.

The ARRL Club Mentor will involve the participation of ARRL-affiliated
clubs in close cooperation with ARRL Headquarters staff. Affiliated
clubs will be encouraged to actively participate in this program to
"mainstream" more people, licensed and otherwise, into Amateur Radio.
The club mentor program also has the additional benefit of potentially
increasing a club's membership as well.

The ARRL Mentor program will work through ARRL Headquarters. An ARRL
mentor is a person with an interest in mentoring--or "Elmering"--new
licensees who may or may not be members of an ARRL-affiliated club. ARRL
Headquarters staff will support these mentors, who must be ARRL members.

The Interactive Mentor is intended to aid enterprising new hams via the
ARRL Web site by providing answers to basic questions and through chat
rooms, where discourse between new hams and mentors would help new hams
to get on the air.

The Special Interest Mentor is intended to match people with interests
in advanced, specialized areas of Amateur Radio technology with mentors
who are experienced in these technologies.

Thanks for your input.

Steve, K4YZ

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote


So as far as Hans Brakob is concerned, anyone who WANTS some sort of
training to help them, they can get lost.


Pure fantasy, Steve. I have 'Elmered' dozens of new hams (and continue
to), am affiliated with the MNYARC ( http://www.mnyarc.org/ ), am an
ARRL registered instructor, a Handi-Hams volunteer, and am a contributor
to the Ham-Elmer yahoogroup, just for a few examples of my contributions
to the volunteer training of new hams.

But I don't support (in fact I vehemently oppose) the notion of
"supervised operations only" ham radio license. If that makes me a "bad
person" in your eyes, then I guess I'll just have to live with the
horrible stigma of your disapproval. Why does that not bother me?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Subject: Another D-H* NCVEC proposal
From: "KØHB"
Date: 8/15/2004 10:58 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: k.net


"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote


So as far as Hans Brakob is concerned, anyone who WANTS some sort of
training to help them, they can get lost.


Pure fantasy, Steve.

Would it be too much to ask to ask you to please get your stories
straight, Hans...?!?!

In the post that I responded to, you specifically stated that anyone who
WANTED a structured, mentored systems was not welcome in "(YOUR)" Amateur Radio
Service.

have 'Elmered' dozens of new hams (and continue
to), am affiliated with the MNYARC ( http://www.mnyarc.org/ ), am an
ARRL registered instructor, a Handi-Hams volunteer, and am a contributor
to the Ham-Elmer yahoogroup, just for a few examples of my contributions
to the volunteer training of new hams.

Hoooray for Hans.

I've mentored folks too. This is just one other suggestion on how it
might be done.

But I don't support (in fact I vehemently oppose) the notion of
"supervised operations only" ham radio license. If that makes me a "bad
person" in your eyes, then I guess I'll just have to live with the
horrible stigma of your disapproval. Why does that not bother me?

It's not about "(my) eyes", Hans...It's about what YOU said.



QUOTE:

Subject: Another D-H* NCVEC proposal
From: "KØHB"
Date: 8/14/2004 8:08 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Quite frankly, anyone who was attracted to such a structured supervised
license environment doesn't belong in *MY* Amateur Radio service.

UNQUOTE.

Verbatim, Hans. You said it...anyone can follow the thread.

So...Anyone who didn't/doesn't "do it" the way YOU did is unwelcome.

It really is THAT simple.

Steve, K4YZ

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote


Hans, where's the "wrong message" about offering a program that
provides a
structured training program for those that want it?


Nothing wrong with that at all. ARRL and hundreds of clubs across the
country offer "structured training programs".

What IS wrong with your proposed program is the notion of "you can't
operate with this license unless you're supervised".

Our beloved ham radio service has thrived over the years because a
fundamental feature of its charter (97.1) is the encouragement of
independent tinkering and just plain "I wonder if this would work"
experimentation. It'd be a very stagnant and uninteresting place if
that individual exhuberace were replaced with supervisors who taught
only the "right way to be a ham".

If you want "structured", join MARS or CAP, where structure is important
and very desireable for uniform and consistent styles of operation. Let
amateur radio remain vibrant, free-spirited, and willing to try a lot of
"crazy crap" just to see if it works if for no other reason. That's how
many of our contributions to SOTA came about, not by "supervision".

73, de Hans, K0HB

I feel that the idea of a "Here, Kid, let me hold your hand and show you
how to be a ham" license would send absolutely the wrong message to new
ham 'wannabes'.


Hans, where's the "wrong message" about offering a program that provides a
structured training program for those that want it?


Those who want it can find Elmers today. But I wouldn't want to make
it a required path. Kids run into many requirements as it is, like
being required to study some foriegn language selected by someone else,
or history classes that are little more than preparation for Jepordy
or trivial presuit games.