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Steve Robeson K4CAP September 19th 04 01:49 PM

Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 9/18/2004 9:01 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,

(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:


That's what get's his goat. The really sad thing is that Lennie COULD
be
in that same boat...but just hasn't got the guts to be anything other than
what
he is now...bitter and angry.


What makes you think Len is bitter or angry? I don't see that at all.


I can reccomend a good opthamologist, Jim!

73

Steve, K4YZ






William September 19th 04 02:04 PM

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

Now EPA to PAC on 40 may not be DX to some, but back then it was the first
Hawaiian I'd ever heard on that band. He was way down in the noise and all I
had was the Type 6's 100 watts and the dipole. He was working 6's and 7's, and
my calls went unanswered. I tried moving up a little and down a little - no
soap. But he was soon working 8's and 9's, so maybe there was a chance.


I really enjoyed my first PAC, I know what you mean.


My first was Easter Island from Omaha area. SB-101 and dipole. They
were working west coast. I listened and called for over an hour when
they came back to me.

I enjoyed those, Jim. Note that some of our best memories have a certain
amount of frustration built into them.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Yep

Brian Kelly September 19th 04 02:26 PM

(William) wrote in message . com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...

I sold the fixed-up Viking 2 and VFO a year or two later, and moved away from
that QTH in 1999. Someday I'll get back on 160.

I have lots more...

73 de Jim, N2EY


Ask Brian/W3RV about his inverted "L." It's meant for absolutely
every situation and every band. You just can't miss with his antenna.
There's no reason to stay off of 160.


No Burke, wrong again as usual. I very recently stated that it worked
just ducky 3-15 Mhz didn't I Putzlet? I did not claim it worked on 1.8
Mhz.

Any number of times, mostly for your benefit, I've stated that the
thing was a 135 foot OAL end fed wire without a radial system. Which
is to say that the only way it could work even half decenly would be
if it's feedpoint impedance was some high R+jX value which would
minimize it's ground losses given it's lack of a decent radial system.
I had kids in the yard, I couldn't do radials. So no, I didn't even
try it on 160, I knew better, on 160 it would have been a dummy load
because it would have been only a quarter wave long. Not that I would
expect you to understand why one does not feed the end of a
quarter-wave wire when there are kids in the yard...But on 80 and 40
it cooked because it was hot-fed. R+jX = some nice big vector sum you
see.

No, of course you don't see it, silly me.

Now Burke, once more what's the story on the sked to show off the
end-fed wire you supposedly have eh? Or is it in the same category as
your T5 operation?

Date/time/freq pse?

w3rv

Brian Kelly September 19th 04 02:57 PM

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian Kelly wrote:

(William) wrote in message . com...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...





bb


That was really astute Burke, good shot.


Actually, I thought it was one of his more rational posts.


Absolutely, he ought to continue in this mode.

By the way, you're a lot closer to him than I am, how often have you
heard him on the air with his end-fed wire antenna?


Dave K8MN


w3rv

Dave Heil September 19th 04 04:13 PM

Brian Kelly wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian Kelly wrote:

(William) wrote in message . com...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...





bb

That was really astute Burke, good shot.


Actually, I thought it was one of his more rational posts.


Absolutely, he ought to continue in this mode.

By the way, you're a lot closer to him than I am, how often have you
heard him on the air with his end-fed wire antenna?


I'm a little over two hours away by car. I've never heard him but then
again, he may stick to the higher bands and be running low power.

Dave K8MN

William September 19th 04 08:15 PM

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

Time/date/freq pse?

You forgot "mode?"

QSL?


Don't hold yer breath

73 de Jim, N2EY


Please do.

N2EY September 19th 04 09:24 PM

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,

(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:


Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo

Date: 9/17/2004 8:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:


Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo

Date: 9/16/2004 6:49 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


That's what get's his goat. The really sad thing is that Lennie COULD
be in that same boat...but just hasn't got the guts to be anything other

than
what he is now...bitter and angry.


What makes you think Len is bitter or angry? I don't see that at all.


Hard to say, Jim. I don't think posts such as his come from a sense
of being in harmony with the world, tho'!


Len wants to change amateur radio's regs. Len isn't a ham but has
proclaimed a decades long interest in amateur radio. Len has posted
here for years yet he hasn't done anything about actually obtaining an
amateur license. Len says he doesn't want an amateur license.


All true. Now - has Len ever said he wanted to make amateur radio better?

He takes swipes at the ARRL, hams who would like to see morse continue,
hams who use morse and hams who prefer morse to other modes. He
ridicules the traditions of amateur radio. He belittles the activities
of hams who participate in emergency communications and traffic
handling.


Think about why someone would behave like that.

I think he wants that ham ticket but I think he'd rather die than (I
love this now famous line) "jump through hoops" to obtain one. If that
is his wish, I'm sure he'll have it his way.


I don't think Len wants a ham license at all.

Yeah, I think Leonard's world is empty. He doesn't achieve the respect
here which he feels is his due as a former PROFESSIONAL.


Perhaps.

Or maybe he gets a form of pleasure from behaving the way he does here.

Haven't you known people who got great pleasure ruining others' fun? People who
could take *any* activity and tell you it was bad for you, ruined the
environment/economy/society etc., and was a waste of time?

You've probably been blessed, as I have, to know people of all ages who are
full of life, enthusiasm and joy. These people give off positive energy -
they're just plain fun to be around, even when there's hard work to be done.

Then there are folks who are just the opposite. They're full of criticism,
anger, nastiness and tearing-down of others. Sometimes they try to mask it with
"humor", but the mask doesn't always work. They give off negative energy.

Which would you rather be around?

Think of this: Suppose we all were in the same area, and wanted to do a Field
Day effort. Who would you rather have as leader, given only these choices:
Mike, Steve, Brian or Len?

---

I recall a series on "This Old House" some years back where the project
involved building a new timber-frame structure. The actual timer framing was
done by a team of workers led by a master timber framer. Most of the workers
were amateurs who had *paid* to be there, learning something about the art and
being part of the experience.

Now in case you didn't know, timber framing is a very old craft. Modern timber
framing is a mixture of very old and very new techniques. For example, the
plans are CADD generated and the timbers come from a modern sawmill. But the
finish cuts are all done by hand, with very sharp chisels that are in the
personal care of each worker. Modern comealongs and slings are used, but the
real work of timber frame erection is done by manual labor.

The team of timber framers worked for a week to cut all the joints and assemble
all the bents. On Raising Day, everyone involved in the project worked from
dawn-till-done, and the whole frame was raised before the sun went down. And a
small evergreen tree was lashed to the top of the last bent, a tradition that
is still honored by ironworkers raising skyscrapers.

The point of this long story is that the master framer led his team with pure
positive energy. Everyone involved wanted to be there, amateur and professional
alike, and it wasn't just a job but an experience.

Now of course somebody will point out that modern methods could cut the timber
frames in a fraction of the time, and the whole thing put up by a small crew
with a crane. But it wouldn't be the same, would it?

For all his toil in presenting his long, increasingly eccentric
material, he has won over a single ardent admirer, "William". I'm sure
he's proud.


The question is - proud of what?

73 de Jim, N2EY




N2EY September 19th 04 09:24 PM

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

William wrote:
(Quitefine) wrote in message

...

In article ,
(Blackguard) writes:


You worry overmuch about Quitefine's and Blackguard's identity!


We find it interesting
the anonymity of some
[such as 'Leo'] is respected,
while that of others is not.


Double standard?


No. I'm not the least bit worried about about your identity. Makes
no real difference. However, the reaction of the PCTA, specifically
Steve/K4YZ/K4CAP, to any anonymous post that disagrees with him is a
call to arms, and usually results in a "cowardly scum" accusation.


So WHAT, Brian? Steve is Pro code test, so you decide everyone who is
pro code test is like Steve?


BINGO!

Len does the same thing. All PCTA hams bear responsibility for what any PCTA
ham does. But that rule only applies to PCTA folks.

If Steve has a problem with anonymous posters, so what?

I'm certainly not going to condemn every anonymous poster no matter if
they disagree with me or not. I won't condemn Blackguard or Quitefine or
Leo or any of them.


It ain't my fight, and you'll not be able to make it my fight. I may
occasionally have something to say if one of them makes a particularly
offensive post, but none of them have.

Which is the most offensive thing of all....;-)

You are taking two different things here, notably the fact that some of
us don't condemn anonymous posters, and furthermore, we also don't
condemn anonymous posters that may agree with us, and expecting
something that just isn't human nature. Now when the anonymous poster
disagrees with us, its more likely that a person will say something
negative about the anonymous poster, but that doesn't mean we all have to.


All true but it makes no difference.


You can post as Billybeeper all day as far as I am concerned. Leo is
civil, and I have no problem with that.


Agreed!

73 de Jim, N2EY

Mike Coslo September 20th 04 12:58 AM

N2EY wrote:
In article , Dave Heil
writes:


Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:


In article ,


(Steve

Robeson K4CAP) writes:



Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo

Date: 9/17/2004 8:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:



Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:



Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo

Date: 9/16/2004 6:49 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


That's what get's his goat. The really sad thing is that Lennie COULD
be in that same boat...but just hasn't got the guts to be anything other


than

what he is now...bitter and angry.



What makes you think Len is bitter or angry? I don't see that at all.




Hard to say, Jim. I don't think posts such as his come from a sense
of being in harmony with the world, tho'!


Len wants to change amateur radio's regs. Len isn't a ham but has
proclaimed a decades long interest in amateur radio. Len has posted
here for years yet he hasn't done anything about actually obtaining an
amateur license. Len says he doesn't want an amateur license.



All true. Now - has Len ever said he wanted to make amateur radio better?


Well, when you put it that way - no he hasn't.

He takes swipes at the ARRL, hams who would like to see morse continue,
hams who use morse and hams who prefer morse to other modes. He
ridicules the traditions of amateur radio. He belittles the activities
of hams who participate in emergency communications and traffic
handling.



Think about why someone would behave like that.

I think he wants that ham ticket but I think he'd rather die than (I
love this now famous line) "jump through hoops" to obtain one. If that
is his wish, I'm sure he'll have it his way.



I don't think Len wants a ham license at all.


Agreed 100 percent.


Yeah, I think Leonard's world is empty. He doesn't achieve the respect
here which he feels is his due as a former PROFESSIONAL.



Perhaps.

Or maybe he gets a form of pleasure from behaving the way he does here.

Haven't you known people who got great pleasure ruining others' fun? People who
could take *any* activity and tell you it was bad for you, ruined the
environment/economy/society etc., and was a waste of time?

You've probably been blessed, as I have, to know people of all ages who are
full of life, enthusiasm and joy. These people give off positive energy -
they're just plain fun to be around, even when there's hard work to be done.

Then there are folks who are just the opposite. They're full of criticism,
anger, nastiness and tearing-down of others. Sometimes they try to mask it with
"humor", but the mask doesn't always work. They give off negative energy.




Which would you rather be around?

Think of this: Suppose we all were in the same area, and wanted to do a Field
Day effort. Who would you rather have as leader, given only these choices:
Mike, Steve, Brian or Len?



I recall a series on "This Old House" some years back where the project
involved building a new timber-frame structure. The actual timer framing was
done by a team of workers led by a master timber framer. Most of the workers
were amateurs who had *paid* to be there, learning something about the art and
being part of the experience.

Now in case you didn't know, timber framing is a very old craft. Modern timber
framing is a mixture of very old and very new techniques. For example, the
plans are CADD generated and the timbers come from a modern sawmill. But the
finish cuts are all done by hand, with very sharp chisels that are in the
personal care of each worker. Modern comealongs and slings are used, but the
real work of timber frame erection is done by manual labor.

The team of timber framers worked for a week to cut all the joints and assemble
all the bents. On Raising Day, everyone involved in the project worked from
dawn-till-done, and the whole frame was raised before the sun went down. And a
small evergreen tree was lashed to the top of the last bent, a tradition that
is still honored by ironworkers raising skyscrapers.


So *that's" what that is about! Never know where you are going to learn
something.

The point of this long story is that the master framer led his team with pure
positive energy. Everyone involved wanted to be there, amateur and professional
alike, and it wasn't just a job but an experience.

Now of course somebody will point out that modern methods could cut the timber
frames in a fraction of the time, and the whole thing put up by a small crew
with a crane. But it wouldn't be the same, would it?


It is the joy of the shared task. Not all that many people know about
it, or don't know that they *do* know it, but it is available to all. A
lot of engineers know about it, and certainly soldiers that do the
fighting know a version of it. Portions of it can be awfully difficult,
but there is the moment when you stand back, and you think "WOW, look
what WE did!" Beats beer served by Hiedi Klum... sometimes! ;^)

I enjoy the shared labor a lot. For some reason there are people that
don't like me because of that. Perhaps your above mentioned description,
fits... 8^)

For all his toil in presenting his long, increasingly eccentric
material, he has won over a single ardent admirer, "William". I'm sure
he's proud.



The question is - proud of what?


Darned if I know...

- Mike KB3EIA -


Mike Coslo September 20th 04 01:22 AM

Dave Heil wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:


In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:



Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo

Date: 9/17/2004 8:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:


Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo

Date: 9/16/2004 6:49 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:



That's what get's his goat. The really sad thing is that Lennie COULD
be in that same boat...but just hasn't got the guts to be anything other than
what he is now...bitter and angry.


What makes you think Len is bitter or angry? I don't see that at all.


Hard to say, Jim. I don't think posts such as his come from a sense of
being in harmony with the world, tho'!



Len wants to change amateur radio's regs. Len isn't a ham but has
proclaimed a decades long interest in amateur radio. Len has posted
here for years yet he hasn't done anything about actually obtaining an
amateur license. Len says he doesn't want an amateur license.

He takes swipes at the ARRL, hams who would like to see morse continue,
hams who use morse and hams who prefer morse to other modes. He
ridicules the traditions of amateur radio. He belittles the activities
of hams who participate in emergency communications and traffic
handling.


I think he keeps the Morse code debate going in here. All the PCTA's I
know in this group certainly WANT the test to continue, and they usually
have a strong opinion about what Morse means. But if it goes, they plan
on going on. Wonder what he'll do then?

And as for emergency comms, I was listening to the hurricane net while
Ivan was going through Grenada. The net control was dealing with a
person on a boat that lost it's engine, and was being tossed around. A
lot of information was being passed around, from info about how the
storm was abating, to some general help info - since the net op had some
boating in hurricane experience, to general Moral support. A whole lot
of things came together to help the people on that boat. I suspect they
might have a little better opinion of Ham radio than our antagonist. And
this is just one thing that will never get mentioned anywhere outside of
this forum, no doubt. How many other little dramas go on in emergencies
involving Ham radio?

- Mike KB3EIA -


N2EY September 20th 04 02:32 AM

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Now - has Len ever said he wanted to make amateur radio better?

Well, when you put it that way - no he hasn't.


Ayup.

He takes swipes at the ARRL, hams who would like to see morse continue,
hams who use morse and hams who prefer morse to other modes. He
ridicules the traditions of amateur radio. He belittles the activities
of hams who participate in emergency communications and traffic
handling.


Think about why someone would behave like that.


I think he wants that ham ticket but I think he'd rather die than (I
love this now famous line) "jump through hoops" to obtain one. If that
is his wish, I'm sure he'll have it his way.


I don't think Len wants a ham license at all.


Agreed 100 percent.


Now put all that together and see what conclusion comes out about what Len
*really* wants.

Yeah, I think Leonard's world is empty. He doesn't achieve the respect
here which he feels is his due as a former PROFESSIONAL.


Perhaps.


Or maybe he gets a form of pleasure from behaving the way he does here.


Haven't you known people who got great pleasure ruining others' fun? People
who
could take *any* activity and tell you it was bad for you, ruined the
environment/economy/society etc., and was a waste of time?


You've probably been blessed, as I have, to know people of all ages who are
full of life, enthusiasm and joy. These people give off positive energy -
they're just plain fun to be around, even when there's hard work to be
done.


Then there are folks who are just the opposite. They're full of criticism,
anger, nastiness and tearing-down of others. Sometimes they try to mask it
with
"humor", but the mask doesn't always work. They give off negative energy.


Which would you rather be around?


Hmmm?

And let me add: which would you rather *be*?

Think of this: Suppose we all were in the same area, and wanted to do a
Field
Day effort. Who would you rather have as leader, given only these choices:
Mike, Steve, Brian or Len?


One guess who'd I'd pick for the leader out of those four.

I recall a series on "This Old House" some years back where the project
involved building a new timber-frame structure. The actual timer framing
was
done by a team of workers led by a master timber framer. Most of the
workers
were amateurs who had *paid* to be there, learning something about the art
and being part of the experience.


Now in case you didn't know, timber framing is a very old craft. Modern
timber
framing is a mixture of very old and very new techniques. For example, the
plans are CADD generated and the timbers come from a modern sawmill. But
the
finish cuts are all done by hand, with very sharp chisels that are in the
personal care of each worker. Modern comealongs and slings are used, but
the
real work of timber frame erection is done by manual labor.


btw, they measure-twice-cut-once on everything. And the joints are made with
tolerances no more than 1/32". Never mind that such precision isn't really
necessary structurally and that nobody will see most of the joints up close,
they do it that way because they can, and because it's about care and
craftsmanship, not just tossing up another McMansion.

The team of timber framers worked for a week to cut all the joints and
assemble
all the bents. On Raising Day, everyone involved in the project worked from
dawn-till-done, and the whole frame was raised before the sun went down.
And a
small evergreen tree was lashed to the top of the last bent, a tradition
that is still honored by ironworkers raising skyscrapers.


So *that's" what that is about! Never know where you are going to learn
something.

I don't know how the tradition originated, but it continues to this day.
Perhaps it is a way of acknowledging that living trees gave us the wood to
build the structure. Perhaps it is a symbol of new life, in a new shelter.

Whatever it is, it's a tradition that lives on, despite there being no
structural reason for it.

The point of this long story is that the master framer led his team with
pure
positive energy. Everyone involved wanted to be there, amateur and
professional alike, and it wasn't just a job but an experience.


Now of course somebody will point out that modern methods could cut the
timber
frames in a fraction of the time, and the whole thing put up by a small
crew
with a crane. But it wouldn't be the same, would it?


It is the joy of the shared task.


That's part of it.

Not all that many people know about
it, or don't know that they *do* know it, but it is available to all.


Yes.

But it cannot be bought - it must be earned.

A
lot of engineers know about it, and certainly soldiers that do the
fighting know a version of it. Portions of it can be awfully difficult,
but there is the moment when you stand back, and you think "WOW, look
what WE did!"


Been there, done that. Why do you think my rigs are homebrew?

Beats beer served by Hiedi Klum... sometimes! ;^)


How about if Ms. Klum serves the beer after the last beam is in place? Best of
both worlds!

I enjoy the shared labor a lot.


Me too.

There's another part of it, too: By doing something like that timber-frame, the
workers were connecting with something much bigger than simply cutting some
wood. They became part of a tradition that goes back centuries and yet
continues today. Each worker could sign work they'd done, leaving a part of
themselves with at the site.

They created a home for real people - a family that the workers got to know,
because the family was right there working with them. They became a community
for the time they were there.

The master framer gave a wonderful speech at the beginning of Raising Day. On
that project, they were actually replacing a 150+year-old timber frame
structure that had to come down because of rot in the old wood. He spoke of how
the timber framers of that time had worked, and how the structure had long
outlived those who built it. He noted that the new structure could hopefully
last as long or longer. Most of all, he connected the past, present and future.

For some reason there are people that
don't like me because of that.


Me too!

Perhaps it is because we remind them of things that cannot be bought, nor
acquired easily, yet which are much more worthwhile than those things which
can.

Perhaps it is the fact that, no matter what can be done theoretically, real
things get done because real people actually do them.

Consider the last time you did some sort of project yourself from start to
finish, or with a closely knit team. Compare it with simply paying somebody to
do it for you. Is it the same thing? Why or why not?

Perhaps your above mentioned description,
fits... 8^)


I think so.

For all his toil in presenting his long, increasingly eccentric
material, he has won over a single ardent admirer, "William". I'm sure
he's proud.


The question is - proud of what?


Darned if I know...


And there's two more pieces to the puzzle:

Everyone who worked on that timber frame could walk away proud of what they'd
done. Yet they need not brag about it - all anyone need do is look at the
house. It stands as a testimony to their work, skill, spirit and community.

There is also a big difference between those who imagine, create and build, and
those who hate and destroy. The destroyer needs the creator desperately, but
the creator does not need the destroyer at all. Those who attacked the WTC and
Pentagon on that terrible day in September 2001 could not build the airplanes
or the buildings - they could only destroy them.

Which would you rather be around? And which would you rather be?

73 de Jim, N2EY



Quitefine September 20th 04 06:54 AM

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Quitefine) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Blackguard) writes:

You worry overmuch about Quitefine's and Blackguard's identity!


We find it interesting
the anonymity of some
[such as 'Leo'] is respected,
while that of others is not.

Double standard?


No.


Yes, it is.

I'm not the least bit worried about about your identity.


It is not about worry.

Makes
no real difference.


Agreed.

However, the reaction of the PCTA, specifically
Steve/K4YZ/K4CAP, to any anonymous post that disagrees with him is a
call to arms, and usually results in a "cowardly scum" accusation.


You write as if the actions of
one are the actions of all. They
are not.

Consider the reaction of
Lenover21 to any anonymous
post that disagrees with him.
It is predictable with a high
degree of confidence that he
will respond with insults and name calling.

Would you consider his responses
to be the same as all 'NCTA' people?

Or are they just his?

For that matter,
consider the reaction of
Lenover21 to any
post that disagrees with him.

Yet you tolerate and condone
Len's behaviour.


Perhaps I am Mike Coslo. Perhaps I am Jim Miccolis. Maybe I am both!


Or neither.

Or perhaps Blackguard is but
one of us.


Perhaps. I do think it's funny, though.


Then we have fulfilled
part of our goal.

I will impart some wisdom to you. You may not know this.
You hate my so-called anonymity not because I don't have courage of my
convictions but because it is no fun for you to hurl insults at that
which you cannot identify. It is fun for you to hurl insults at named
people.


The plain truth!


Would you beel better if I called you "gutless scum?"


No.

Well, maybe you
would but that's not my style.


Nor ours.

Say something bad about the Morse Code
exam, and you'll get plenty of it.


From whom?

Say something good about
the Morse Code exam, or
the Morse Code itself, and
you'll get plenty of it too.

You need people like Steve badly.

But with Quitefine and Blackguard, you must discuss ideas!
Or you can do as you are doing.
You can complain that we aren't real.


We are real.
Who we are is not important.
What we have to say is.
Which bothers some people.


I complain only that you receive preferential treatment for anonymii.


From whom?

It is merely my way of making another point with respect to the PCTA
Double Standard.


You attribute the behaviour of
one, to all. That is illogical.

That is important enough to point out again and again.


Yet you ignore similar behaviour
by Lenover21 and yourself.

PAH! Whining.

as once was
and always shall be
I am
Blackguard Vox Deus

Thank you for sharing
your wisdom.


I'm still thinking about pulling a Cecil. Life is much more pleasant
on the QuiteDarkguard side.

Do you not have the guts
to call us by our names, Brian?


Brian Kelly September 20th 04 12:07 PM

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

(William) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...

I sold the fixed-up Viking 2 and VFO a year or two later, and moved away

from
that QTH in 1999. Someday I'll get back on 160.

I have lots more...

73 de Jim, N2EY

Ask Brian/W3RV about his inverted "L." It's meant for absolutely
every situation and every band. You just can't miss with his antenna.
There's no reason to stay off of 160.


W3RV has helped me with many antenna projects. He has expertise ranging from
large Yagis to simple wire antennas.

The implementation of practical HF antennas for amateur radio is about 95%
mechanical engineering and 5% electrical engineering.


I don't think it's that big an imbalance but I agree in principle, the
physical design and execution aspects of antenna apparatus within ham
radio do tend to fall more into M.E. country than they do into E.E.
country.

But of course to get anyone's help, it pays to ask in a nice way and actually
listen to/read the information provided.

Time/date/freq pse?

You forgot "mode?"


When I launched the challenge somewhere around here a couple days ago
I stated that it would be most convenient for me to latch up with
Weenie Willy on 20 or 40 ssb. I knew there was no point to even
thinking about a CW contact. "Do not feed the animals" . . . 'druther
let him make an ass of himself again with his only mode.

QSL?


Don't hold yer breath


Believe me I haven't.

73 de Jim, N2EY


b.

Mike Coslo September 20th 04 04:58 PM


"Jeff, you've never been under Incoming, have you? While
trying to get return artillery support on a radio while your
ears, your whole body is numbed by HE infall on your
position? Most folks in that position don't wet their
pants...every sphincter tightens up, ears go deaf, eyes
close tight, and every breath may be the last."

--Len Anderson, 2000



Hey guys, just as a general question, how many sphincters does a human
have anyhow? I thought there was just one....


- Mike KB3EIA -


N2EY September 20th 04 05:40 PM

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

It is the joy of the shared task.


That's part of it.


Here's another part that didn't get into the previous post:

In modern industrial society, most of us don't produce "something"
that is lasting and tangible. As in "I built that!" Most people's jobs
are as part of a much larger team, where they perform a specific
limited function.

Of course some people (like us engineers) do get to say "We/I built
that", or in the case of EMT/health care people "We/I saved that
person's life/health/delivered that baby" etc. But most of modern life
is highly specialized and regulated, or limited by time/space/money
considerations. Heck, Americans aren't even cooking as much as they
used to (more and more meals are either eaten in restaurants, are
take-out, or are precooked heat-em-ups).

So it's understandable that many people are attracted to nonvocational
activities where they "do for themselves". Mike's hockey team may
never play at the level of the NHL or even the minor-league pro hockey
teams - but that isn't the point. Veggies grown in a home garden, or
fish you catch yourself may cost more than just buying them in the
supermarket, when you take into account all the costs - but that isn't
the point either.

And even an elaborate ham station may not meet what some people call
"professional standards" - but that isn't the point at all.

So when someone compares what we hams do to what "professionals" do,
or says we are "stuck in the past" or "using 1930s standards" - they
really don't get the point at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Len Over 21 September 20th 04 11:23 PM

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:


You forgot "mode?"


When I launched the challenge somewhere around here a couple days ago
I stated that it would be most convenient for me to latch up with
Weenie Willy on 20 or 40 ssb. I knew there was no point to even
thinking about a CW contact. "Do not feed the animals" . . . 'druther
let him make an ass of himself again with his only mode.

QSL?


Don't hold yer breath


Believe me I haven't.



Tsk. All that "civil discourse" wasted. Hi hi.

Nice to see another anti-demonstration of the radio amateur's
"inherent good will."



Len Over 21 September 20th 04 11:23 PM

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,

(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:


Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo

Date: 9/17/2004 8:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:



Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:



Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo

Date: 9/16/2004 6:49 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:



Len Over 21 wrote:




Tsk, tsk. You want a meeting with charts and graphs and an
experienced presenter to show you examples of the infamous
Double Standard?!?!?



hmm, maybe. *Your answer* is what needs explaining. If I don't

care
about your mode, nor Steve's mode of expression, and you two are on
opposite sides of the discussion, I need an explanation of why that
means that I have a double standard.



Tsk. Still need an "explanation?"



Not a good reply, Coslo.



Nor a good explanation.




Lennie doesn't HAVE a "Double Standard" that he can use as an
example,
Mike. That's why he dodged answering your post.




Nope, I took the summer off to rest a torn meniscus. Takes

longer to
heal as time marches on.



Who filled in under your name in here "all summer?"



What are you talking about?



You'll have to forgive Lennie...If you posted even once in that time
period, he assumes that you anxiously devoured each and ever word he
wrote as
if there were no other nourishment to be had.




Or you may be smoking some "good stuff" that Bob Casey said I
was... :-)



nahh. nothing stronger than the occasional beer for me.



3.2 stuff? :-)



You smoke beer? How is that done? :-)



So. you deliberately misunderstand me to serve as the content of your
replies? noted! 8^)




Of course. "The Dodge" (not the automobile). A typical Lenniesque
diversion from having to acknowledge a comment which might embarrass


him.


Tsk. You should get a subscription to Psychology Today and
fill yourself in on what "relationships" are.



It is okay. This happens all over Netnews. Don't let it bother you too
much.




This is where Lennie gets most of his "education"...Periodicals that
his
wife subscribed to...Of course he'd have everyone here believe that it

was
HIS education that carried the day.



If you know all this Steve, why bother with Len at all?


Here's the question Steve. I think I know the answer already, but let's
check it out.



As long as Lenover21 continues to post in his present style, I assume
that you are happy to post in retort to him. Yes?



If you'll take careful notice, Mike, with rare exception over the last
few
months, I rare reply directly to anything he says. Most of it (like the

last
couple with you here) have been as a result of someone else's posts echoing
him.



I'm pretty convinced that even though there are times you find him
exasperating, it doesn't upset you to make the posts?

What would upset me even more is letting a bully go unchallenged.



A bully? Len only has as much power as you give him. Proof of the saying

"He
who angers me, controls me. " Len works jard to anger you, so you'll come

off
the handle, call him names, etc.

Note how upset he gets when people *don't* react in kind. Note how he's

trying
to get mild-mannered Mike Coslo worked up so that Mike will reply in kind.

But Mr. Coslo doesn't work that way. I suspect his time on the ice is one
reason. (One trick in hockey is to do something when the ref isn't looking

that
elicits a violent reaction when the ref *is* looking. Result: Penalty box

and
your team is down a player for several minutes. Games are won and lost that
way. So Mike stays cool and collected.


Amateur Radio is something that has enrichened my life and has been a
Godsend on more than one occassion.



Same for me. I think my background in ham radio got me into engineering

school
and into a successful EE career. Introduced me to a lot of good friends.

Showed
me a world many folks don't even know exists.

Why should Len's words bother me?


To allow a creep like Anderscum to trash it unabated would be
unthinkable.



His words have only as much power as you give them. Calling him "Anderscum"
simply lowers you to his level. Can't you see that's what he wants?


It isn't. But it IS the non-answer expected.

PCTA just don't have much validity in their reasons of keeping
the code test in regulations.

They are all into the fantasy of "brotherhood" in the "fraternity."

And of "service to their country" by engaging in a hobby...

ESPECIALLY when he is so blatantly wrong on so many occassions.



Then point out the errors without the name calling.


Absolutely. Show ALL NCTA the "Error of their Ways!"

Hi hi.

Everything about removing the morse code test is an "Error"
as well as Heresy and an Abomination to the Ham Gods.

I also believe that for good or bad, you enjoy it to a certain extent.

Only that it lends some balance to his mistruthfulness and deceit.



When you call him "Lennie" and "anderscum" and go off on his wife or

whatever,
it undermines *your* credibility. Which is just what he wants.


Tsk. Not what "I" want.

PCTA are NEVER "wrong." Never.

Anything said against them is an "error." Hi hi.


No. good guess, but that was an exchange he had with Bessie Braddock, a


House of Commons member from Liverpool.


UK regulations came into the thread?

Tsk. Nice misdirection, but still misdirection.

Lennie did one active duty tour in the Army. Good for him.

But I know people who have made far greater contributions to the United
States who never left thier home state than Lennie ever hoped to "passing

1.2
million messages at ADA in 1953".


Len and over 700 other military personnel there at the time...


Jimmie wasn't there. Jimmie wasn't ever in ANY military.

But Jimmie Knows The Truth about Everything and won't hesitate
to call any NCTA "in Error."

Kellie was never in any military.

Kellies also "knows truth."

That's what get's his goat. The really sad thing is that Lennie COULD
be in that same boat...but just hasn't got the guts to be anything other

than
what he is now...bitter and angry.



What makes you think Len is bitter or angry? I don't see that at all.


Hard to say, Jim. I don't think posts such as his come from a sense of
being in harmony with the world, tho'!


"In harmony with the world?"

Is the ARRL now expounding some kind of New Age thing for all hams?

Tsk, tsk. The "world" is that of the morsemen's fantasizing of yesterday.

If you want some real fantasy with buck attached, check into Paul
Crouch's TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network). Paul Crouch started
out as a licensed radio amateur...parlayed radio into nearly a billion-
dollar asset "religious" organization with laying on of green hands
to all his "ministry."

Crouch's rationality for greed and avarice is "God's Word."

TBN's "ministry" gives the flock God's Word and the flock give their
money to TBN and Crouch.

There's a religious parallel there. Like all hams of today MUST follow
the Old Teachings...as if they were the Word of God (which they
aren't). If you worship hobbies that way, you can call all non-believers
(in the old teachings of hamme) as "out of harmony" (crazy in a
supposedly civilized way).

Continue to support the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society. It's your
"harmony."



Len Over 21 September 20th 04 11:23 PM

In article ,
(William) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo

Date: 9/17/2004 8:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:


Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo

Date: 9/16/2004 6:49 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


Len Over 21 wrote:


Tsk, tsk. You want a meeting with charts and graphs and an
experienced presenter to show you examples of the infamous
Double Standard?!?!?


hmm, maybe. *Your answer* is what needs explaining. If I don't

care
about your mode, nor Steve's mode of expression, and you two are on
opposite sides of the discussion, I need an explanation of why that
means that I have a double standard.


Tsk. Still need an "explanation?"


Not a good reply, Coslo.


Nor a good explanation.


Lennie doesn't HAVE a "Double Standard" that he can use as an
example,
Mike. That's why he dodged answering your post.


Nope, I took the summer off to rest a torn meniscus. Takes

longer to

heal as time marches on.


Who filled in under your name in here "all summer?"


What are you talking about?


You'll have to forgive Lennie...If you posted even once in that

time
period, he assumes that you anxiously devoured each and ever word he
wrote as
if there were no other nourishment to be had.


Or you may be smoking some "good stuff" that Bob Casey said I
was... :-)


nahh. nothing stronger than the occasional beer for me.


3.2 stuff? :-)


You smoke beer? How is that done? :-)


So. you deliberately misunderstand me to serve as the content

of your
replies? noted! 8^)


Of course. "The Dodge" (not the automobile). A typical

Lenniesque
diversion from having to acknowledge a comment which might embarrass

him.

Tsk. You should get a subscription to Psychology Today and
fill yourself in on what "relationships" are.


It is okay. This happens all over Netnews. Don't let it bother

you too

much.


This is where Lennie gets most of his "education"...Periodicals

that
his
wife subscribed to...Of course he'd have everyone here believe that it

was
HIS education that carried the day.


If you know all this Steve, why bother with Len at all?


Because Steve lies, and Steve has a mission, and Steve is nuts.

Like the guy in the movie, Acropolis Now, he was lying on his back in
a hoe house, the ceiling fan started to look like a rotary wing
propellor, then he says, "I asked for a mission, and for my sins, they
gave me one."

No "hi, hi" on that one.


Apt mental picture. Easy to visualize.

Here's the question Steve. I think I know the answer already, but let's
check it out.


As long as Lenover21 continues to post in his present style, I assume
that you are happy to post in retort to him. Yes?


%#$%&**@!!!

You actually asked such a question???


Jimmie's wife hasn't been threatened. His tires haven't been slashed.

If you'll take careful notice, Mike, with rare exception over the last
few
months, I rare reply directly to anything he says. Most of it (like the

last
couple with you here) have been as a result of someone else's posts

echoing
him.


I'm pretty convinced that even though there are times you find him
exasperating, it doesn't upset you to make the posts?

What would upset me even more is letting a bully go unchallenged.


A bully? Len only has as much power as you give him. Proof of the saying

"He
who angers me, controls me. " Len works jard to anger you, so you'll come

off
the handle, call him names, etc.


Works EVERY time!


Heh.

I'll have to rest from all that "jard work." Hi hi.

[have to recharge my ham mower...]

Jimmie no make Errors like "blatant typos." So Jimmie must be talkin
'bout Jard Work.

Note how upset he gets when people *don't* react in kind. Note how he's

trying
to get mild-mannered Mike Coslo worked up so that Mike will reply in kind.


Poor Mike. Supports Steve. Get's blasted.

Whatsa nice guy to do? "Steve's not such a bad sort, I mean he never
called me But Mr. Coslo doesn't work that way. I suspect his time on the
ice is one
reason. (One trick in hockey is to do something when the ref isn't looking

that
elicits a violent reaction when the ref *is* looking. Result: Penalty box

and
your team is down a player for several minutes. Games are won and lost that
way. So Mike stays cool and collected.


And plays dirty?


"Winning is EVERYTHING!"

yawn

Excuse me...to avoid "errors" I should have written jawn.


Amateur Radio is something that has enrichened my life and has been a
Godsend on more than one occassion.


Same for me. I think my background in ham radio got me into engineering

school
and into a successful EE career.


Holey Moley! You're a real engineer? Got any land surveying under
your belt?


I don't think so. Too much IVY in the collitch.

Introduced me to a lot of good friends. Showed
me a world many folks don't even know exists.

Why should Len's words bother me?


So much so that you kill file him? Can't imagine it!


"You can't handle the truth!" - Col. Jessup.

To allow a creep like Anderscum to trash it unabated would be
unthinkable.


His words have only as much power as you give them. Calling him "Anderscum"
simply lowers you to his level.


Absolutely. And Jim's "Dr. Fill" persona isn't nearly enough to work
on Steve's psychophenomenon.


It all started in an oprah...for doc fill. :-)

Can't you see that's what he wants?


Everyone but Steve sees it!!!


Not what I want.

Poor nursie can't handle the return fire.

Doesn't that clue you in the least???

Sorry Han's, Steve IS Controlled by Len!

Hi, hi!


"I control the vertical, I control the horizontal" - intro to old SF TV
show.

ESPECIALLY when he is so blatantly wrong on so many occassions.


Then point out the errors without the name calling.


In-friggin-possible!!!


Tsk. "blatant errors." Hi hi.

Well, to the religious nuts, anything against morse code IS heresy
and an abomination to ham gods.

I also believe that for good or bad, you enjoy it to a certain extent.

Only that it lends some balance to his mistruthfulness and deceit.


When you call him "Lennie" and "anderscum" and go off on his wife or

whatever,
it undermines *your* credibility. Which is just what he wants.


Hellooooooooo?????????

Steve's just lucky that Len doesn't pick up the phone!!!


Actually, I did. Answered a wrong number.

Not actually a wrong number. Was a telemarketer. Telemarketer
was on the "do not call" list.

They got reported to the FCC for violating the telephone spam rules.

So you guys have a relationship. It's a pretty strange one, made easier
by Netnews, but this sort of thing has existed for a long time. It's the
old Winston Churchhill/Lady Astor thing. They traded barbs with each
other, and I have to believe they enjoyed it.


Was it Lady Astor who said to Sir Winston:

"My good sir, I do believe you are drunk!"

"Yes, m'lady, I am. And you are quite ugly. But tomorrow I will be

sober...."

That was mean. And Steve is crazy. Tomorrow, Steve will still be
crazy, Lady Astor will still be ugly, and Len will still be laughing
at you guys.


Ho ho! :-)

Sir Winston just might have a headache.

Why Lenover21 resists my suggestions that this is what is going on is
beyond me. It is no insult, its just how things go sometimes.


He resists them because admitting them would spoil his game.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"


If you can. Hi, hi!


The only thing that seems to count is regular attendance at the
Church of St. Hiram and the regular morse mass every morning.

He resists a lot. Common sense. Civility. Friendship. He'd rather
you slap him around a bit than shake his hand.


Of course. Now think what his real purpose could be. Here's a hint: It's

not
about making amateur radio better or advancing it


(hint: nor is yours)


Gosh. A long time ago I stated that all I was advocating was a removal
of the morse code test from a license test.

Lots of the Believers in here didn't believe that.

Lot's wife, too...

Tsk. I should have posted the Bans on the doorway of the Church
of St. Hiram. [something like old Marty L. did long ago]

The mighty macho morsemen might have believed that. Hi hi.

Lennie loves to berate othrs for "assuming", "rank and priviledge",
and
swears he does NOT berate others for thier services regardless.


thier?


"Their" "sevices to 'thier' country" by virtue of engaging in a hobby.

Hard to beat rationalizations like that.

That's been misproven repeatedly. Just google up the famous "sphincters

post",
where he berated and denigrated a US Coast Guard radio operator for his
recollections of his duties at NPM.


The guy who sold out his PO box to Deignan the callsign collector?

Now there's someone who contributes to the state of the art.


Real good example of modern-day ham "ethics" and "nobility."

That's how he got to be a "lecturer in mathematics at a university"
(just another teacher in a junior college).

Gotta be careful. Said seller is one of the nabobs with the 'Net and
has some "authority" on this newsgroup along with Paul Schleck.

I do not have now, and I never did have any military rank. That needs
to be clear. But there are more ways than that of serving your country.


Some ways are more meaningful than others.

Agreed 100%


10 - 50%


Zero.

Absolutely.

Lennie did one active duty tour in the Army. Good for him.


More than Kelly did.


More than Jimmie did.

But I know people who have made far greater contributions to the

United
States who never left thier home state than Lennie ever hoped to "passing

1.2
million messages at ADA in 1953".


Name them and "thier" deeds.


ADA did about 220 thousand messages a month in 1955. Anyone
can estimate what one shift's responsibility was.

We didn't sit around cross-checking messages like a QSL Bureau.
We just sent and received them, working 24/7 regardless of what
the cashew-cruncher said. Duty was done.

Only about 300 of the Battalion were actively involved in ADA
operations, the rest in other Signal tasks at Far East Command
Headquarters. The photographic services company helped earn
the Battalions' Presidential Unit Citation (we got two of those).
[nursie didn't approve either citation...probably because of not
being born yet...hi hi]

But...*my* serving there was not the point. The real POINT was
that the U.S. military did NOT use "CW" for the majority of
messaging necessary to maintain a worldwide military. The U.S.
military of 50 years ago relied on teleprinter to do that. Teleprinter
was fast, reliable, as close to error-free as possible, and could
work without interruptions (save to change paper, tape, ribbons).

Manual morse telegraphy was still used by the USN and USCG of
50 years ago, but on shipboard. Those were relatively small
stations. USN networks of fixed-point to fixed-point were still relying
on teleprinter for the mass of necessary messaging...and for the
on-line encryption and decryption of sensitive material, something
they pioneered more than 60 years ago.

Olde-tyme hammes chafe at such reality. They have no real
comeback but instead misdirect to their own "ranks and statuses"
(if they had any) and old, old myths of morse to justify morse
testing for hobbyists of today. Those that can do neither come
out with personal insults at those pointing out reality of the past
or thinly-disguised insults they claim as "civil."


I see a broken down Marine, who tragically lost a child, now extremely
bitter and angry.

I see Kelly suggest I take my children to Somalia.

Is there any middle ground with you guys?


"Thier" way or the highway. Do code or die!

NO middle ground.

Obey the ARRL and the teachings of the Church of St. Hiram.

What makes you think Len is bitter or angry? I don't see that at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY


I'm just waitng for that one.


Heh...the last time I was "bitter" was during a visit to Angostura.

Hmmm...I'm a retired person with a comfortable income, living with
my wife (who was my high school sweetheart) in a nice house that
has long since been mortage-free. I have a nice workshop in the
center of the house (inside, not consigned to a cold/hot garage) and
have the time and money to play with radio-electronics. I've "proved"
myself in the military, then the workplace, don't have to have rank,
status, or some artificial privileges for a hobby radio activity.

"Bitter?" I doubt it. Old, yes. If one survives a long time on earth,
that is what one achieves. :-)

It IS fun to watch all the posturing and preening in here, though, all
the chest-pounding and pseudo-religious beliefs manifested. It IS
fun to poke some holes in that posturing, preening, and pounding.
Tsk. The posturers can't stand up straight on subjects but have to
resort to pejoratives on the "pokers." [their problem, not mine]

All that about a HOBBY. Tsk. Hi hi.



William September 21st 04 12:18 AM

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...

So when someone compares what we hams do to what "professionals" do,
or says we are "stuck in the past" or "using 1930s standards" - they
really don't get the point at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY


But, but, but...

amateur radio is supposed to have a reputation for innovation.

William September 21st 04 12:21 AM

(Quitefine) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(Quitefine) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Blackguard) writes:

You worry overmuch about Quitefine's and Blackguard's identity!

We find it interesting
the anonymity of some
[such as 'Leo'] is respected,
while that of others is not.

Double standard?


No.


Yes, it is.

I'm not the least bit worried about about your identity.


It is not about worry.

Makes
no real difference.


Agreed.

However, the reaction of the PCTA, specifically
Steve/K4YZ/K4CAP, to any anonymous post that disagrees with him is a
call to arms, and usually results in a "cowardly scum" accusation.


You write as if the actions of
one are the actions of all. They
are not.

Consider the reaction of
Lenover21 to any anonymous
post that disagrees with him.
It is predictable with a high
degree of confidence that he
will respond with insults and name calling.

Would you consider his responses
to be the same as all 'NCTA' people?

Or are they just his?

For that matter,
consider the reaction of
Lenover21 to any
post that disagrees with him.

Yet you tolerate and condone
Len's behaviour.


Perhaps I am Mike Coslo. Perhaps I am Jim Miccolis. Maybe I am both!

Or neither.

Or perhaps Blackguard is but
one of us.


Perhaps. I do think it's funny, though.


Then we have fulfilled
part of our goal.

I will impart some wisdom to you. You may not know this.
You hate my so-called anonymity not because I don't have courage of my
convictions but because it is no fun for you to hurl insults at that
which you cannot identify. It is fun for you to hurl insults at named
people.

The plain truth!


Would you beel better if I called you "gutless scum?"


No.

Well, maybe you
would but that's not my style.


Nor ours.

Say something bad about the Morse Code
exam, and you'll get plenty of it.


From whom?

Say something good about
the Morse Code exam, or
the Morse Code itself, and
you'll get plenty of it too.

You need people like Steve badly.

But with Quitefine and Blackguard, you must discuss ideas!
Or you can do as you are doing.
You can complain that we aren't real.

We are real.
Who we are is not important.
What we have to say is.
Which bothers some people.


I complain only that you receive preferential treatment for anonymii.


From whom?

It is merely my way of making another point with respect to the PCTA
Double Standard.


You attribute the behaviour of
one, to all. That is illogical.

That is important enough to point out again and again.


Yet you ignore similar behaviour
by Lenover21 and yourself.

PAH! Whining.

as once was
and always shall be
I am
Blackguard Vox Deus

Thank you for sharing
your wisdom.


I'm still thinking about pulling a Cecil. Life is much more pleasant
on the QuiteDarkguard side.

Do you not have the guts
to call us by our names, Brian?


I miss Darkguard. Can he come out and play?

William September 21st 04 12:23 AM

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
"Jeff, you've never been under Incoming, have you? While
trying to get return artillery support on a radio while your
ears, your whole body is numbed by HE infall on your
position? Most folks in that position don't wet their
pants...every sphincter tightens up, ears go deaf, eyes
close tight, and every breath may be the last."

--Len Anderson, 2000



Hey guys, just as a general question, how many sphincters does a human
have anyhow? I thought there was just one....


- Mike KB3EIA -


I think there's one at each end of the stomach, and one at the end of
the large intestine.

But I'm no nurse. Hey, there's another one.

Mike Coslo September 21st 04 03:09 AM

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:


In article ,


(Steve

Robeson K4CAP) writes:



Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo

Date: 9/17/2004 8:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:


Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo

Date: 9/16/2004 6:49 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


Len Over 21 wrote:




Tsk, tsk. You want a meeting with charts and graphs and an
experienced presenter to show you examples of the infamous
Double Standard?!?!?


hmm, maybe. *Your answer* is what needs explaining. If I don't


care

about your mode, nor Steve's mode of expression, and you two are on
opposite sides of the discussion, I need an explanation of why that
means that I have a double standard.


Tsk. Still need an "explanation?"


Not a good reply, Coslo.


Nor a good explanation.




Lennie doesn't HAVE a "Double Standard" that he can use as an
example,
Mike. That's why he dodged answering your post.




Nope, I took the summer off to rest a torn meniscus. Takes


longer to

heal as time marches on.


Who filled in under your name in here "all summer?"


What are you talking about?


You'll have to forgive Lennie...If you posted even once in that time
period, he assumes that you anxiously devoured each and ever word he
wrote as
if there were no other nourishment to be had.




Or you may be smoking some "good stuff" that Bob Casey said I
was... :-)


nahh. nothing stronger than the occasional beer for me.


3.2 stuff? :-)


You smoke beer? How is that done? :-)


So. you deliberately misunderstand me to serve as the content of your
replies? noted! 8^)




Of course. "The Dodge" (not the automobile). A typical Lenniesque
diversion from having to acknowledge a comment which might embarrass

him.



Tsk. You should get a subscription to Psychology Today and
fill yourself in on what "relationships" are.


It is okay. This happens all over Netnews. Don't let it bother you too
much.




This is where Lennie gets most of his "education"...Periodicals that
his
wife subscribed to...Of course he'd have everyone here believe that it


was

HIS education that carried the day.


If you know all this Steve, why bother with Len at all?



Here's the question Steve. I think I know the answer already, but let's
check it out.


As long as Lenover21 continues to post in his present style, I assume
that you are happy to post in retort to him. Yes?


If you'll take careful notice, Mike, with rare exception over the last
few
months, I rare reply directly to anything he says. Most of it (like the


last

couple with you here) have been as a result of someone else's posts echoing
him.


I'm pretty convinced that even though there are times you find him
exasperating, it doesn't upset you to make the posts?

What would upset me even more is letting a bully go unchallenged.


A bully? Len only has as much power as you give him. Proof of the saying


"He

who angers me, controls me. " Len works jard to anger you, so you'll come


off

the handle, call him names, etc.

Note how upset he gets when people *don't* react in kind. Note how he's


trying

to get mild-mannered Mike Coslo worked up so that Mike will reply in kind.

But Mr. Coslo doesn't work that way. I suspect his time on the ice is one
reason. (One trick in hockey is to do something when the ref isn't looking


that

elicits a violent reaction when the ref *is* looking. Result: Penalty box


and

your team is down a player for several minutes. Games are won and lost that
way. So Mike stays cool and collected.



Amateur Radio is something that has enrichened my life and has been a
Godsend on more than one occassion.


Same for me. I think my background in ham radio got me into engineering


school

and into a successful EE career. Introduced me to a lot of good friends.


Showed

me a world many folks don't even know exists.

Why should Len's words bother me?



To allow a creep like Anderscum to trash it unabated would be
unthinkable.


His words have only as much power as you give them. Calling him "Anderscum"
simply lowers you to his level. Can't you see that's what he wants?



It isn't. But it IS the non-answer expected.

PCTA just don't have much validity in their reasons of keeping
the code test in regulations.

They are all into the fantasy of "brotherhood" in the "fraternity."

And of "service to their country" by engaging in a hobby...





ESPECIALLY when he is so blatantly wrong on so many occassions.


Then point out the errors without the name calling.



Absolutely. Show ALL NCTA the "Error of their Ways!"

Hi hi.

Everything about removing the morse code test is an "Error"
as well as Heresy and an Abomination to the Ham Gods.


I also believe that for good or bad, you enjoy it to a certain extent.

Only that it lends some balance to his mistruthfulness and deceit.


When you call him "Lennie" and "anderscum" and go off on his wife or


whatever,

it undermines *your* credibility. Which is just what he wants.



Tsk. Not what "I" want.

PCTA are NEVER "wrong." Never.

Anything said against them is an "error." Hi hi.



No. good guess, but that was an exchange he had with Bessie Braddock, a
House of Commons member from Liverpool.



UK regulations came into the thread?


I'll start commenting from here, because this is the first part of the
post you are replying to that is from me, despite what it says at the top.

I didn't know that Winston Churchill had conversations with Bessie
Braddock about Ham regulations. You would think we would get more
publicity on that! 8^)

Tsk. Nice misdirection, but still misdirection.


Just a direction, noting else. If you want to talk about Churchill, I'd
be happy to. Quite a character!

Lennie did one active duty tour in the Army. Good for him.

But I know people who have made far greater contributions to the United
States who never left thier home state than Lennie ever hoped to "passing


1.2

million messages at ADA in 1953".

Len and over 700 other military personnel there at the time...



Jimmie wasn't there. Jimmie wasn't ever in ANY military.


I was never "in" any either. Is that a problem?

But Jimmie Knows The Truth about Everything and won't hesitate
to call any NCTA "in Error."


I've disagreed with him and he's admitted when he was wrong, or if not
wrong, when I've had a good point. He's also pointed out when he thinks
I'm wrong too.

Kellie was never in any military.


hmmm

Kellies also "knows truth."


Might be a conspiracy going here Lenover21!


That's what get's his goat. The really sad thing is that Lennie COULD
be in that same boat...but just hasn't got the guts to be anything other


than

what he is now...bitter and angry.


What makes you think Len is bitter or angry? I don't see that at all.


Hard to say, Jim. I don't think posts such as his come from a sense of
being in harmony with the world, tho'!



"In harmony with the world?"


In harmony with the world.

Is the ARRL now expounding some kind of New Age thing for all hams?


You could check out their website

Tsk, tsk. The "world" is that of the morsemen's fantasizing of yesterday.

If you want some real fantasy with buck attached, check into Paul
Crouch's TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network). Paul Crouch started
out as a licensed radio amateur...parlayed radio into nearly a billion-
dollar asset "religious" organization with laying on of green hands
to all his "ministry."


Good, a new story! I'm really getting bored with that Morse code stuff...

Crouch's rationality for greed and avarice is "God's Word."


TBN's "ministry" gives the flock God's Word and the flock give their
money to TBN and Crouch.


If there is a God, I bet s/he has a special reward for televangelists!

There's a religious parallel there. Like all hams of today MUST follow
the Old Teachings...as if they were the Word of God (which they
aren't). If you worship hobbies that way, you can call all non-believers
(in the old teachings of hamme) as "out of harmony" (crazy in a
supposedly civilized way).


Respectfully, I disagree. REspectfully I think you had to do a major
stretch for that analogy.


Continue to support the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society. It's your
"harmony."


I like my Harmony with onions, and maybe a bit of hot pepper, sautéed
with butter. Yuuummmmy! ;^)

But seriously, if you are happy this way, then its all good! 8^)

- mike KB3EIA -


Mike Coslo September 21st 04 03:13 AM

William wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...

So when someone compares what we hams do to what "professionals" do,
or says we are "stuck in the past" or "using 1930s standards" - they
really don't get the point at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY



But, but, but...

amateur radio is supposed to have a reputation for innovation.


It's all good, Brian! New and old can be appreciated and done at the
same time.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Len Over 21 September 21st 04 04:13 AM

In article ,
(William) writes:

Hey guys, just as a general question, how many sphincters does a human
have anyhow? I thought there was just one....

- Mike KB3EIA -


I think there's one at each end of the stomach, and one at the end of
the large intestine.

But I'm no nurse. Hey, there's another one.


Too subtle for this group, Brian. :-) :-) :-)



Len Over 21 September 21st 04 04:13 AM

In article ,
(William) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...

So when someone compares what we hams do to what "professionals" do,
or says we are "stuck in the past" or "using 1930s standards" - they
really don't get the point at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY


But, but, but...

amateur radio is supposed to have a reputation for innovation.


Perhaps they are "innovating" 1930s standards and practices using
semiconductors! :-)

...the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society rides again... hi hi.

beep, beep



N2EY September 21st 04 05:35 PM

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

(William) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message

...


Ask Brian/W3RV about his inverted "L." It's meant for absolutely
every situation and every band. You just can't miss with his antenna.


Note how Mr. Burke misremembers what was written, and distorts the
meaning.

There's no reason to stay off of 160.


W3RV has helped me with many antenna projects. He has expertise ranging from
large Yagis to simple wire antennas.


The implementation of practical HF antennas for amateur radio is about 95%
mechanical engineering and 5% electrical engineering.


I don't think it's that big an imbalance but I agree in principle, the
physical design and execution aspects of antenna apparatus within ham
radio do tend to fall more into M.E. country than they do into E.E.
country.


Point is, the main problems are mechanical. As in where does it go,
how do I attach it to the house, where do I get the components without
paying big bucks. All of which can be answered with some thought,
knolwedge and experience.

But of course to get anyone's help, it pays to ask in a nice way and
actually listen to/read the information provided.


Time/date/freq pse?


You forgot "mode?"


When I launched the challenge somewhere around here a couple days ago
I stated that it would be most convenient for me to latch up with
Weenie Willy on 20 or 40 ssb. I knew there was no point to even
thinking about a CW contact. "Do not feed the animals" . . . 'druther
let him make an ass of himself again with his only mode.


Always offer a choice.

QSL?


Don't hold yer breath


Believe me I haven't.

The point here is that, when directly asked, ol' Cecil made good. He
said he was an antenna guru and "CW expert" (yes, he said he was a "CW
expert") and that Morse was his "favorite fun mode". So when somebody
asked for a sked, he was there. No excuses or shaggy-dog stories, he
showed up with a good signal and worked everybody who could hear him.
Stand-up guy.

As predicted, Mr. Burke refuses your request, and tries to make it
look like you are the bad guy.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Len Over 21 September 22nd 04 04:21 AM

In article ,
(anonymous poster) writes:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,


(Brian Kelly) writes:

(William) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...


Ask Brian/W3RV about his inverted "L." It's meant for absolutely
every situation and every band. You just can't miss with his antenna.


Note how Mr. Burke misremembers what was written, and distorts the
meaning.


Tsk, tsk, tsk. "Mr. Burke" remembers the gist of the alleged
"conversation" very well...as did I...as did most readers. :-)

Notice how "Mr. Miccolis" misremembers and distorts all the
invective and general tuff-guy tawk used by "Mr. Kelly."

That, according to "Mr. Miccolis" must be "civil discourse." :-)

Like it or no, "Mr. Miccolis," there is bound to be some sarcastic
return to "Mr. Kelly's" more-so sarcastic commentary. Try to
understand that.

There's no reason to stay off of 160.


W3RV has helped me with many antenna projects. He has expertise ranging

from
large Yagis to simple wire antennas.


The implementation of practical HF antennas for amateur radio is about

95%
mechanical engineering and 5% electrical engineering.


I don't think it's that big an imbalance but I agree in principle, the
physical design and execution aspects of antenna apparatus within ham
radio do tend to fall more into M.E. country than they do into E.E.
country.


Point is, the main problems are mechanical. As in where does it go,
how do I attach it to the house, where do I get the components without
paying big bucks. All of which can be answered with some thought,
knolwedge and experience.


Acknowledged. However, that does not forgive "Mr. Kelly's"
blatant disregard of "civil discourse" by using denigrating and
insulting words used in a poor imitation of the Soprano's TV
show dialogue.

But of course to get anyone's help, it pays to ask in a nice way and
actually listen to/read the information provided.


Time/date/freq pse?


You forgot "mode?"


When I launched the challenge somewhere around here a couple days ago
I stated that it would be most convenient for me to latch up with
Weenie Willy on 20 or 40 ssb. I knew there was no point to even
thinking about a CW contact. "Do not feed the animals" . . . 'druther
let him make an ass of himself again with his only mode.


Always offer a choice.


Use of "Weenie Willy" and "do not feed the animals" is "civil
discourse?

Sorry, that's just the kind of dialogue demanded by the PCTA extras
who think they are the hots of radio. Not to mention all others being
just "drudges" in the words of the elitist aristocrats of hum radio.

QSL?

Don't hold yer breath


Believe me I haven't.

The point here is that, when directly asked, ol' Cecil made good. He
said he was an antenna guru and "CW expert" (yes, he said he was a "CW
expert") and that Morse was his "favorite fun mode". So when somebody
asked for a sked, he was there. No excuses or shaggy-dog stories, he
showed up with a good signal and worked everybody who could hear him.
Stand-up guy.


So, it didn't matter that others (3 years ago) might have had free-time
off scheduling problems?

Only the "stand-up guys" showed up? All others are "drudges" who
aren't worth anything and didn't show up?

My, my, aren't you condescending to earth people?

As predicted, Mr. Burke refuses your request, and tries to make it
look like you are the bad guy.


"Request?!?"

That was no "request." It was a simple school-yard challenge.
Kid stuff. Unseemly for anyone long into adulthood.

Apparently that's what the PCTA think is "right" for modern ham
radio - playing kiddie games of fighting challenges in the school
yard to "demonstrate their strength/superiority?"

Actually, "Mr. Miccolis" comments look more like some modern-
day "'Hood" puffery about "stand-up guys" who "make 'requests'".

As usual, all NCTA are depicted by the PCTA extras as lesser
human beings unfit to associate with Their Highnesses. yawn



Brian Kelly September 22nd 04 10:12 AM

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

(William) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message

...


Ask Brian/W3RV about his inverted "L." It's meant for absolutely
every situation and every band. You just can't miss with his antenna.


Note how Mr. Burke misremembers what was written, and distorts the
meaning.


Of course, that's the name of his game. Which is the only game Weenie
Willy can play.


There's no reason to stay off of 160.


W3RV has helped me with many antenna projects. He has expertise ranging from
large Yagis to simple wire antennas.


The implementation of practical HF antennas for amateur radio is about 95%
mechanical engineering and 5% electrical engineering.


I don't think it's that big an imbalance but I agree in principle, the
physical design and execution aspects of antenna apparatus within ham
radio do tend to fall more into M.E. country than they do into E.E.
country.


Point is, the main problems are mechanical. As in where does it go,
how do I attach it to the house, where do I get the components without
paying big bucks. All of which can be answered with some thought,
knolwedge and experience.


Wait a minnit here James, it does not take a BSME to do some
respectable "eyebolt engineering" at Home Depot in order to get a
lousy but reliable wire up. I have a ham acquaintance who is a CPA I
occasionally turn to for sources of weird/arcane/cheap parts, he's an
unbelievable walking cheap antenna parts encyclopedia. Wanna a $10
prop pitch motor? Yeah, he knows where one can be glomed.

In the field of ham antennas MEs don't really have much to offer until
it gets down to big yagis on big masts in big towers which cost big
bucks if they fail. I've done some pretty serious M.E.-type structural
analyses and optimization runs for a few locals who are into big-gun
antenna farms over the years and it's worked out well for all
involved. They usually don't compulsively jump outta bed at the first
light of dawn to see if their piles of steel and aluminum are on the
ground after some big blow moved thru the neighborhood during the
night if I did the numbers for them.

By far the biggest contributions to ham radio and electronics in
general mechanical engineers make are in the fields of component and
equipment hardware design and production methodologies and facilities.

But of course to get anyone's help, it pays to ask in a nice way and
actually listen to/read the information provided.


Time/date/freq pse?


You forgot "mode?"


When I launched the challenge somewhere around here a couple days ago
I stated that it would be most convenient for me to latch up with
Weenie Willy on 20 or 40 ssb. I knew there was no point to even
thinking about a CW contact. "Do not feed the animals" . . . 'druther
let him make an ass of himself again with his only mode.


Always offer a choice.


(a) What available choices did I miss?
(b) I offered him the choice of showing up or not. He didn't.


QSL?

Don't hold yer breath


Believe me I haven't.

The point here is that, when directly asked, ol' Cecil made good. He
said he was an antenna guru and "CW expert" (yes, he said he was a "CW
expert") and that Morse was his "favorite fun mode". So when somebody
asked for a sked, he was there. No excuses or shaggy-dog stories, he
showed up with a good signal and worked everybody who could hear him.
Stand-up guy.


Amen.

As predicted, Mr. Burke refuses your request, and tries to make it
look like you are the bad guy.


As if.

He actually blew it twice over. Fact is that that I don't have any 40
or 20 antennas up at the moment so if he'd agreed to work me on 40 or
20 ssb I would have had one helluva scramble on my hands in order to
get on freq on time.

Lordy lordy be, I'd just love to do a few rounds of Five Card Stud
with him .. !


73 de Jim, N2EY


w3rv

N2EY September 22nd 04 10:56 AM

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,


(Brian Kelly) writes:

(William) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...


Ask Brian/W3RV about his inverted "L." It's meant for absolutely
every situation and every band. You just can't miss with his

antenna.

Note how Mr. Burke misremembers what was written, and distorts the
meaning.


Of course, that's the name of his game. Which is the only game Weenie
Willy can play.


We could go to google and repost the old exchanges, which would clearly back up
what I'm saying. But why bother? He will just do it again.

There's no reason to stay off of 160.


W3RV has helped me with many antenna projects. He has expertise ranging

from
large Yagis to simple wire antennas.


The implementation of practical HF antennas for amateur radio is about

95%
mechanical engineering and 5% electrical engineering.

I don't think it's that big an imbalance but I agree in principle, the
physical design and execution aspects of antenna apparatus within ham
radio do tend to fall more into M.E. country than they do into E.E.
country.


Point is, the main problems are mechanical. As in where does it go,
how do I attach it to the house, where do I get the components without
paying big bucks. All of which can be answered with some thought,
knolwedge and experience.


Wait a minnit here James, it does not take a BSME to do some
respectable "eyebolt engineering" at Home Depot in order to get a
lousy but reliable wire up.


Of course! Nor does it take an EE to get an end-fed wire working. I was doing
it in grade school.

But of course to get anyone's help, it pays to ask in a nice way and
actually listen to/read the information provided.


Time/date/freq pse?


You forgot "mode?"


When I launched the challenge somewhere around here a couple days ago
I stated that it would be most convenient for me to latch up with
Weenie Willy on 20 or 40 ssb. I knew there was no point to even
thinking about a CW contact. "Do not feed the animals" . . . 'druther
let him make an ass of himself again with his only mode.


Always offer a choice.


(a) What available choices did I miss?


AM, FM, PSK-31...

(b) I offered him the choice of showing up or not. He didn't.


Actually, you offered him choice of time, date, frequency. He simply refused
the challenge. Which says it all. He's got plenty of time to post here but no
time for a 5 minute QSO at *his* choice of time and frequency.

QSL?

Don't hold yer breath

Believe me I haven't.

The point here is that, when directly asked, ol' Cecil made good. He
said he was an antenna guru and "CW expert" (yes, he said he was a "CW
expert") and that Morse was his "favorite fun mode". So when somebody
asked for a sked, he was there. No excuses or shaggy-dog stories, he
showed up with a good signal and worked everybody who could hear him.
Stand-up guy.


Amen.

As predicted, Mr. Burke refuses your request, and tries to make it
look like you are the bad guy.


As if.

He actually blew it twice over. Fact is that that I don't have any 40
or 20 antennas up at the moment so if he'd agreed to work me on 40 or
20 ssb I would have had one helluva scramble on my hands in order to
get on freq on time.


Just put up an end fed wire.

Or operate from here.

Lordy lordy be, I'd just love to do a few rounds of Five Card Stud
with him .. !


HAW!

73 de Jim, N2EY


William September 23rd 04 02:17 AM

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

(William) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message

...


Ask Brian/W3RV about his inverted "L." It's meant for absolutely
every situation and every band. You just can't miss with his antenna.


Note how Mr. Burke misremembers what was written, and distorts the
meaning.


What I remember: I had to accept Kelly's solution or hit the highway.

The meaning I took away from the exchange: Kelly's solution must be
universal for it to work in my situation, therefore, it can work in
your situation as well.

There's no reason to stay off of 160.


W3RV has helped me with many antenna projects. He has expertise ranging from
large Yagis to simple wire antennas.


The implementation of practical HF antennas for amateur radio is about 95%
mechanical engineering and 5% electrical engineering.


I don't think it's that big an imbalance but I agree in principle, the
physical design and execution aspects of antenna apparatus within ham
radio do tend to fall more into M.E. country than they do into E.E.
country.


Point is, the main problems are mechanical. As in where does it go,
how do I attach it to the house, where do I get the components without
paying big bucks. All of which can be answered with some thought,
knolwedge and experience.

But of course to get anyone's help, it pays to ask in a nice way and
actually listen to/read the information provided.


Time/date/freq pse?


You forgot "mode?"


When I launched the challenge somewhere around here a couple days ago
I stated that it would be most convenient for me to latch up with
Weenie Willy on 20 or 40 ssb. I knew there was no point to even
thinking about a CW contact. "Do not feed the animals" . . . 'druther
let him make an ass of himself again with his only mode.


Always offer a choice.


I made a different choice. See my reply elsewhere.

QSL?

Don't hold yer breath


Believe me I haven't.

The point here is that, when directly asked, ol' Cecil made good.


When directly asked, I also made good.

He
said he was an antenna guru and "CW expert" (yes, he said he was a "CW
expert") and that Morse was his "favorite fun mode".


I said that I wanted to build an antenna, that I am not a cw expert,
and that Morse is not my favorite mode.

So when somebody
asked for a sked, he was there.


And I said "No."

No excuses or shaggy-dog stories, he
showed up with a good signal and worked everybody who could hear him.


No excuses here, either.

Stand-up guy.


Thank you.

As predicted, Mr. Burke refuses your request,


Why would I accept it?

and tries to make it
look like you are the bad guy.


He can do that all by himself. You've been doing a pretty fair job of
it lately.

Len Over 21 September 23rd 04 04:47 AM

In article ,
(William) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,


(Brian Kelly) writes:

(William) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...


Ask Brian/W3RV about his inverted "L." It's meant for absolutely
every situation and every band. You just can't miss with his

antenna.

Note how Mr. Burke misremembers what was written, and distorts the
meaning.


What I remember: I had to accept Kelly's solution or hit the highway.


A reasonable take on the "challenge."

The meaning I took away from the exchange: Kelly's solution must be
universal for it to work in my situation, therefore, it can work in
your situation as well.


Whatever that "antenna guru" has done for himself is claimed to
work anywhere else if done by anyone else.

There's no reason to stay off of 160.


W3RV has helped me with many antenna projects. He has expertise ranging

from
large Yagis to simple wire antennas.


The implementation of practical HF antennas for amateur radio is about

95%
mechanical engineering and 5% electrical engineering.

I don't think it's that big an imbalance but I agree in principle, the
physical design and execution aspects of antenna apparatus within ham
radio do tend to fall more into M.E. country than they do into E.E.
country.


Point is, the main problems are mechanical. As in where does it go,
how do I attach it to the house, where do I get the components without
paying big bucks. All of which can be answered with some thought,
knolwedge and experience.

But of course to get anyone's help, it pays to ask in a nice way and
actually listen to/read the information provided.


Time/date/freq pse?


You forgot "mode?"


When I launched the challenge somewhere around here a couple days ago
I stated that it would be most convenient for me to latch up with
Weenie Willy on 20 or 40 ssb. I knew there was no point to even
thinking about a CW contact. "Do not feed the animals" . . . 'druther
let him make an ass of himself again with his only mode.


Always offer a choice.


I made a different choice. See my reply elsewhere.


Jimmie doesn't like your choice. [as if he would...yuck]

QSL?

Don't hold yer breath

Believe me I haven't.

The point here is that, when directly asked, ol' Cecil made good.


When directly asked, I also made good.


Jimmie thinks you MUST answer his challenge. Tsk.

He
said he was an antenna guru and "CW expert" (yes, he said he was a "CW
expert") and that Morse was his "favorite fun mode".


I said that I wanted to build an antenna, that I am not a cw expert,
and that Morse is not my favorite mode.


Jimmie doesn't understand that kind of answer.

Rule one in he If a PCTA extra "challenges" anyone, that
anyone must OBEY or be cast out with all untouchables.

So when somebody
asked for a sked, he was there.


And I said "No."


They cannot take a "No."

A No answer is a no-no.

No excuses or shaggy-dog stories, he
showed up with a good signal and worked everybody who could hear him.


No excuses here, either.


Jimmie still doesn't like it, expects all to be on the PCTA extra beck
and call.

Stand-up guy.


Thank you.


I don't think they like "stand-up" in here. That stuff is comedy.
The PCTA extras in here are very, very serious about their "work."
All are required to "work" them or they get unruly.

As predicted, Mr. Burke refuses your request,


Why would I accept it?


Jimmie still doesn't understand the "challenge" was really a command.

and tries to make it
look like you are the bad guy.


He can do that all by himself. You've been doing a pretty fair job of
it lately.


Agreed.



Steve Robeson, K4CAP September 23rd 04 10:24 AM

(William) wrote in message . com...
(N2EY) wrote in message . com...

The point here is that, when directly asked, ol' Cecil made good.


When directly asked, I also made good.


You've been "directly asked" to "make good" on countless issues
and have yet to come clean on a single one.

He
said he was an antenna guru and "CW expert" (yes, he said he was a "CW
expert") and that Morse was his "favorite fun mode".


I said that I wanted to build an antenna, that I am not a cw expert,
and that Morse is not my favorite mode.

So when somebody
asked for a sked, he was there.


And I said "No."


You said no because you're a coward. Or you lied about making
the antenna...Or both.

No excuses or shaggy-dog stories, he
showed up with a good signal and worked everybody who could hear him.


No excuses here, either.


Yeah..."no excuses"..."no answers"..."no reasons"..."no
validity"..."no facts"..."no common sense"...

Stand-up guy.


Thank you.


Just like you, Burke, to take an accolade for another and bestowe
it upon yourself. Kinda like Lennie's efforts to embellish his Army
record with the sacrifices of men who died three years before he was
in the Army.

As predicted, Mr. Burke refuses your request,


Why would I accept it?


To prove some of your own boasts of proficiency in operating?

I say you just can't do it. Not up to it and don't have the
skills.

and tries to make it
look like you are the bad guy.


He can do that all by himself. You've been doing a pretty fair job of
it lately.


But no where NEAR your level, Brian...Keep up the "good"
work...You are your own best "ambassador"...

Steve, K4YZ

William September 23rd 04 11:55 AM

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
. com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,


(Brian Kelly) writes:

(William) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...


Ask Brian/W3RV about his inverted "L." It's meant for absolutely
every situation and every band. You just can't miss with his

antenna.

Note how Mr. Burke misremembers what was written, and distorts the
meaning.


What I remember: I had to accept Kelly's solution or hit the highway.


A reasonable take on the "challenge."

The meaning I took away from the exchange: Kelly's solution must be
universal for it to work in my situation, therefore, it can work in
your situation as well.


Whatever that "antenna guru" has done for himself is claimed to
work anywhere else if done by anyone else.

There's no reason to stay off of 160.


W3RV has helped me with many antenna projects. He has expertise ranging

from
large Yagis to simple wire antennas.


The implementation of practical HF antennas for amateur radio is about

95%
mechanical engineering and 5% electrical engineering.

I don't think it's that big an imbalance but I agree in principle, the
physical design and execution aspects of antenna apparatus within ham
radio do tend to fall more into M.E. country than they do into E.E.
country.

Point is, the main problems are mechanical. As in where does it go,
how do I attach it to the house, where do I get the components without
paying big bucks. All of which can be answered with some thought,
knolwedge and experience.

But of course to get anyone's help, it pays to ask in a nice way and
actually listen to/read the information provided.


Time/date/freq pse?


You forgot "mode?"


When I launched the challenge somewhere around here a couple days ago
I stated that it would be most convenient for me to latch up with
Weenie Willy on 20 or 40 ssb. I knew there was no point to even
thinking about a CW contact. "Do not feed the animals" . . . 'druther
let him make an ass of himself again with his only mode.

Always offer a choice.


I made a different choice. See my reply elsewhere.


Jimmie doesn't like your choice. [as if he would...yuck]

QSL?

Don't hold yer breath

Believe me I haven't.

The point here is that, when directly asked, ol' Cecil made good.


When directly asked, I also made good.


Jimmie thinks you MUST answer his challenge. Tsk.

He
said he was an antenna guru and "CW expert" (yes, he said he was a "CW
expert") and that Morse was his "favorite fun mode".


I said that I wanted to build an antenna, that I am not a cw expert,
and that Morse is not my favorite mode.


Jimmie doesn't understand that kind of answer.

Rule one in he If a PCTA extra "challenges" anyone, that
anyone must OBEY or be cast out with all untouchables.

So when somebody
asked for a sked, he was there.


And I said "No."


They cannot take a "No."

A No answer is a no-no.

No excuses or shaggy-dog stories, he
showed up with a good signal and worked everybody who could hear him.


No excuses here, either.


Jimmie still doesn't like it, expects all to be on the PCTA extra beck
and call.

Stand-up guy.


Thank you.


I don't think they like "stand-up" in here. That stuff is comedy.
The PCTA extras in here are very, very serious about their "work."
All are required to "work" them or they get unruly.

As predicted, Mr. Burke refuses your request,


Why would I accept it?


Jimmie still doesn't understand the "challenge" was really a command.

and tries to make it
look like you are the bad guy.


He can do that all by himself. You've been doing a pretty fair job of
it lately.


Agreed.



The Cliff Notes version is that I'm not playing "thier" game.

Never have, never will.

Brian Kelly September 23rd 04 12:39 PM

(William) wrote in message . com...
(N2EY) wrote in message . com...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

(William) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...


Ask Brian/W3RV about his inverted "L." It's meant for absolutely
every situation and every band. You just can't miss with his antenna.


Note how Mr. Burke misremembers what was written, and distorts the
meaning.


What I remember: I had to accept Kelly's solution or hit the highway.

The meaning I took away from the exchange: Kelly's solution must be
universal for it to work in my situation, therefore, it can work in
your situation as well.

There's no reason to stay off of 160.


W3RV has helped me with many antenna projects. He has expertise ranging from
large Yagis to simple wire antennas.


The implementation of practical HF antennas for amateur radio is about 95%
mechanical engineering and 5% electrical engineering.

I don't think it's that big an imbalance but I agree in principle, the
physical design and execution aspects of antenna apparatus within ham
radio do tend to fall more into M.E. country than they do into E.E.
country.


Point is, the main problems are mechanical. As in where does it go,
how do I attach it to the house, where do I get the components without
paying big bucks. All of which can be answered with some thought,
knolwedge and experience.

But of course to get anyone's help, it pays to ask in a nice way and
actually listen to/read the information provided.


Time/date/freq pse?


You forgot "mode?"


When I launched the challenge somewhere around here a couple days ago
I stated that it would be most convenient for me to latch up with
Weenie Willy on 20 or 40 ssb. I knew there was no point to even
thinking about a CW contact. "Do not feed the animals" . . . 'druther
let him make an ass of himself again with his only mode.


Always offer a choice.


I made a different choice. See my reply elsewhere.

QSL?

Don't hold yer breath

Believe me I haven't.

The point here is that, when directly asked, ol' Cecil made good.


When directly asked, I also made good.

He
said he was an antenna guru and "CW expert" (yes, he said he was a "CW
expert") and that Morse was his "favorite fun mode".


I said that I wanted to build an antenna, that I am not a cw expert,
and that Morse is not my favorite mode.

So when somebody
asked for a sked, he was there.


And I said "No."

No excuses or shaggy-dog stories, he
showed up with a good signal and worked everybody who could hear him.


No excuses here, either.

Stand-up guy.


Thank you.

As predicted, Mr. Burke refuses your request,


Why would I accept it?

and tries to make it
look like you are the bad guy.


He can do that all by himself. You've been doing a pretty fair job of
it lately.


Wriggle, wriggle, squirm, squirm, post mindless circle-jerks with your
Control Unit from here to infinity but when it's all said and done
you've once again demonstrated that you're all keyboard and no RADIO.

:: YAWN ::

w3rv

William September 23rd 04 09:18 PM

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...
(William) wrote in message . com...
(N2EY) wrote in message . com...

The point here is that, when directly asked, ol' Cecil made good.


When directly asked, I also made good.


You've been "directly asked" to "make good" on countless issues
and have yet to come clean on a single one.


My positions WRT amateur radio policy are crystal clear.

That is why you attack me.

He
said he was an antenna guru and "CW expert" (yes, he said he was a "CW
expert") and that Morse was his "favorite fun mode".


I said that I wanted to build an antenna, that I am not a cw expert,
and that Morse is not my favorite mode.

So when somebody
asked for a sked, he was there.


And I said "No."


You said no because you're a coward. Or you lied about making
the antenna...Or both.


I have nothing to prove to you. Yesterday I had nothing to prove to
you. Tomorrow I will have nothing to prove to you.

I will not play your games.

No excuses or shaggy-dog stories, he
showed up with a good signal and worked everybody who could hear him.


No excuses here, either.


Yeah..."no excuses"..."no answers"..."no reasons"..."no
validity"..."no facts"..."no common sense"...


You attack me because my rationale is strong, and my will is strong.

Stand-up guy.


Thank you.


Just like you, Burke, to take an accolade for another and bestowe
it upon yourself.


I have a box full of real medals that were really awarded to me.

You have a box full of trinkets that you got at a garage sale.

Kinda like Lennie's efforts to embellish his Army
record with the sacrifices of men who died three years before he was
in the Army.


And you have been engaged in seven hostile actions!

As predicted, Mr. Burke refuses your request,


Why would I accept it?


To prove some of your own boasts of proficiency in operating?


I have nothing to prove to you. Go get a monkey to do your tricks.

I say you just can't do it. Not up to it and don't have the
skills.


And what you say matters?

and tries to make it
look like you are the bad guy.


He can do that all by himself. You've been doing a pretty fair job of
it lately.


But no where NEAR your level,


But you admit that he participates in it none-the-less.

Brian...Keep up the "good"
work...You are your own best "ambassador"...


Should I threaten bricks and slashes and terror?

You take the low road, I take the high road.

William September 23rd 04 09:20 PM

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...


Wriggle, wriggle, squirm, squirm, post mindless circle-jerks with your
Control Unit from here to infinity but when it's all said and done
you've once again demonstrated that you're all keyboard and no RADIO.

:: YAWN ::

w3rv


"Gets down to firmly
establishing the fact that, with a few obvious exceptions, perceptions
of the overall characters of RRAPers based only on what they post here
can't be taken seriously."

I can't take you seriously.

Len Over 21 September 24th 04 06:47 AM

In article ,
(William) writes:

The Cliff Notes version is that I'm not playing "thier" game.

Never have, never will.


Nor I...but it IS demanded that all capitulate to Them.

No capitulation and now you've been charged with spousal
abuse by we-all-know-who. And the other PCTA extras do
nothing about one who makes baseless charges. Tsk.



N2EY September 24th 04 12:16 PM

In article ,
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:

(William) wrote in message
.com...
(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...

The point here is that, when directly asked, ol' Cecil made good.


When directly asked, I also made good.


Now *that's* funny!

You've been "directly asked" to "make good" on countless issues
and have yet to come clean on a single one.


So why bother, Steve? You keep asking the same questions over and over. You're
not going to get a straight answer. So why bother?

Did you see my post about the "UP/URS-2"? Wanna bet that's a pretty close
approximation to what really happened?

He
said he was an antenna guru and "CW expert" (yes, he said he was a "CW
expert") and that Morse was his "favorite fun mode".


I said that I wanted to build an antenna, that I am not a cw expert,
and that Morse is not my favorite mode.

So when somebody
asked for a sked, he was there.


And I said "No."


You said no because you're a coward. Or you lied about making
the antenna...Or both.


So what?

No excuses or shaggy-dog stories, he
showed up with a good signal and worked everybody who could hear him.


No excuses here, either.


Yeah..."no excuses"..."no answers"..."no reasons"..."no
validity"..."no facts"..."no common sense"...

Why does all this still bother you, Steve?

Stand-up guy.


Thank you.


Just like you, Burke, to take an accolade for another and bestowe
it upon yourself. Kinda like Lennie's efforts to embellish his Army
record with the sacrifices of men who died three years before he was
in the Army.


As predicted, Mr. Burke refuses your request,


Why would I accept it?


To prove some of your own boasts of proficiency in operating?

I say you just can't do it. Not up to it and don't have the
skills.


Does it really matter?

and tries to make it
look like you are the bad guy.


He can do that all by himself. You've been doing a pretty fair job of
it lately.


See?

But no where NEAR your level, Brian...Keep up the "good"
work...You are your own best "ambassador"...

Then stop helping him, Steve...

73 de Jim, N2EY


Steve Robeson K4CAP September 24th 04 12:46 PM

Subject: Radio Stories
From: (William)
Date: 9/23/2004 3:18 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
.com...
(William) wrote in message
.com...
(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...

The point here is that, when directly asked, ol' Cecil made good.

When directly asked, I also made good.


You've been "directly asked" to "make good" on countless issues
and have yet to come clean on a single one.


My positions WRT amateur radio policy are crystal clear.

That is why you attack me.


I am not "attacking" you, Brian.

I challenge your assertions. You continue to make assertions of fact
about your experience and skills in Amateur Radio, yet never pony up any
validation of them.

He
said he was an antenna guru and "CW expert" (yes, he said he was a "CW
expert") and that Morse was his "favorite fun mode".

I said that I wanted to build an antenna, that I am not a cw expert,
and that Morse is not my favorite mode.

So when somebody
asked for a sked, he was there.

And I said "No."


You said no because you're a coward. Or you lied about making
the antenna...Or both.


I have nothing to prove to you. Yesterday I had nothing to prove to
you. Tomorrow I will have nothing to prove to you.

I will not play your games.


It's not my "games", Brian...They are yours.

You are the one making assertions of skill, knowledge and experience.

However there is NOTHING to validate any of it.

No excuses or shaggy-dog stories, he
showed up with a good signal and worked everybody who could hear him.

No excuses here, either.


Yeah..."no excuses"..."no answers"..."no reasons"..."no
validity"..."no facts"..."no common sense"...


You attack me because my rationale is strong, and my will is strong.


What "rationale"...?!?!

"I refuse to answer"...?!?!?

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

And "strong will"...?!?!

You conduct yourself politely and reasonably when Len's out-of-pocket, and
then when you "team up" with him, you parrot him down to the diminutives and
insults.

You have no will but to get Lennie's nod-of-approval.

You don't have enough say-so in your own behaviour as to decide which hand
you'll wipe with.

Stand-up guy.

Thank you.


Just like you, Burke, to take an accolade for another and bestowe
it upon yourself.


I have a box full of real medals that were really awarded to me.

You have a box full of trinkets that you got at a garage sale.


The difference, Brian, is that I ACKNOWLEDGE what I collect as opposed to
what I earned.

I have a "box full of real medals that were really awarded to me"
too...And I am NOT speaking of my CAP awards, all of which were also earned
too.

Kinda like Lennie's efforts to embellish his Army
record with the sacrifices of men who died three years before he was
in the Army.


And you have been engaged in seven hostile actions!


Yes, I was.

As predicted, Mr. Burke refuses your request,

Why would I accept it?


To prove some of your own boasts of proficiency in operating?


I have nothing to prove to you. Go get a monkey to do your tricks.


I don't need a monkey, Brian.

I say you just can't do it. Not up to it and don't have the
skills.


And what you say matters?


It obviously matters to you.

You're spending a lot of time ttrying to get out from under it.

and tries to make it
look like you are the bad guy.

He can do that all by himself. You've been doing a pretty fair job of
it lately.


But no where NEAR your level,


But you admit that he participates in it none-the-less.

Brian...Keep up the "good"
work...You are your own best "ambassador"...


Should I threaten bricks and slashes and terror?

You take the low road, I take the high road.


No, you don't.

You lie. You decieve. You dodge and hide.

You are welcomed to repost the item wherein you think I "threaten(ed)
bricks and slashes and terror".

The WHOLE post, Brian...IN CONTEXT.

Steve, K4YZ






Brian Kelly September 24th 04 02:42 PM

(William) wrote in message . com...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...


Wriggle, wriggle, squirm, squirm, post mindless circle-jerks with your
Control Unit from here to infinity but when it's all said and done
you've once again demonstrated that you're all keyboard and no RADIO.

:: YAWN ::

w3rv


"Gets down to firmly
establishing the fact that, with a few obvious exceptions, perceptions
of the overall characters of RRAPers based only on what they post here
can't be taken seriously."

I can't take you seriously.


Completely out of context as usual. Any port in a storm eh? Like I
said you can wriggle and you can squirm but in the end yer BS simply
doesn't flush Burke. As usual. Cecil, the two Jims, Hans, etc. "took
me seriously"back in 2001 and, well, you know the rest dontcha Burke?
Just can't hack it can ya Burke?

We'll just add your tall tales about your end-fed wire to the tall
tales about your T5 operation to your list of "accomplishements" and
and move along here.

w3rv


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