Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (William)
Date: 10/7/2004 3:34 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: Dave Heil
Date: 10/6/2004 10:46 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

William wrote:

If you missed it, then you must must be necrotic. If you support
it,
then you do so by your silence, as you do so many other topics on
RRAP. Schindler.

I note your silence on gay marriage. By your silence, you must
support
it.

I don't believe that it has been a topic of discussion.

See, you've been silent on it. You must condone it.

Are you making it one?

I can, if you like.

Brain was probably one of those folks who sat around mumbling "Why
doesn't
Anita Bryant keep here mouth shut...?!?!"

Why would I? I loved her orange juice song.

And now that he's hooked up with Lennie the Lame, I am sure the whole
thing hits just a lil bit closer to home!

Wait a minute. Are you back on the homosexual inuendo stuff?

There's no "innuendo", Brain.

You engage in one pattern of conduct when Lennie's not "around" for any
period of time.

When he "returns", your conduct changes to that of someone trying to
please him, as if a lover trying to satisfy thier mate.

It superceeds the "male bonding" framework.

The only thing I've been on the fence over was the renewal of my ARRL
membership when the ARRL was recommending a license structure that I
couldn't support. That was years ago.

I've been very clear on other topics.

...or so you seem to believe.

For sure...

Goofball can't remember what he wrote just 2 days prior, so it's of no
small wonder at some of the things he must "believe"...For example he
beleives
that some butter bar LT can give him permission to operate Amateur Radio
from
within the jurisdiciton of another country.

And so you prove yourself a liar again.

Hardly.

I DID prove that you had "forgotten" what YOU had stated only a couple
days previously. That's archived in YOUR post.

You have also stated in past correspondence that your commander gave you
"permission" to operate Amateur Radio from Somalia. If it was something othr
than a butter bar, I stand corrected, however you DID state it, Brain.

If it was other than an LT, I am in error, NOT lying.

Steve, K4YZ

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...

ME built a rig on a wooden base? You jest. Never in this world . . !
Aluminum or steel or forget it.

I've done it...

Point is, it was quick, inexpensive, easy and forgiving of errors

And when it's done it looks just like what it is, a POS.

Yep - Perfectly Ordered System.

.. . . puleeeeze . . . !

As you know I'm more than just a tad
familiar with those old surplus drives. They were designed *seven
decades* ago for use in high altitude high vibration combat
environments.

Which makes them perfect for ham rigs.

Where's the correlation? You operate the Southgate 7 at 25,000 feet
while pulling Gs and getting shot at do ya?

Usually on fixed freqs. None of which has anything to do
with ham gear particularly today's ham gear. They're miserably slow
tuning *kluges* by any realistic measure.

I *like* slow tuning. How fast did you set the dial on the '847 for FD? 5 kHz
per turn?

Since you're the Chief RRAP Tuning Rates guru and you didn't have a
problem with it one way or another during FD you should know right off
what it was. So you tell me. Hmmm? (here comes my second beef sammich
.. . )

Lookit all the "modern" HF rigs - they typically default to a tuning rate of
5-10 kHz/turn. I was doing that in my homebrew rigs 35 years ago.

.. . . . and . . . ?

The best Millen and National could do was a weenie 10:1. Miller came up with
that goofy 6:1/36:1 planetary that cost the earth and felt like mush.

I still have a couple very nice smooth reduction drives out that era
which would great for tuning a little DC rcvr. I wouldn't use 'em for
anything more than a small-bore app like that.

The Heath harmonic gear drives were really slick too.

A good BC-221, ARC-5 or LM cap will do the job better and for a lot less money
and grief. Real gear drive, low torque, nice dial, etc.

Was the S-line a "kluge"? Tuning rate was 20 kHz/turn, IIRC,

Is that a complaint or a compliment?

and took the ham
bands in 200 kHz chunks. Covering 80/40/20/15 took 10 bandswitch positions and
10 xtals. Plus going across certain points on the same band (say, 3590 to 3610
or 7195 to 7205) took a bandswitch move and running the dial almost end to end.

Real Hams have a cure for that. One xtal covers the usual 3.5-3.7
segment for CW contests and other xtal covers the 3.7-3.9 segment for
the phone contests. For the 40 phone contests ya listen with the
75S-3B and transmit with a 32S-3 equipped with a 7.1-7.3 xtal. Then
Drake came out with rigs which tuned 500 wide Khz segemnts per xtal
which completely eliminated the problem.

I'll take my surplus, thank you very much.

Did I ever thank you for getting all my surplus junk outta my life?

Oddly enough, ARC-5 prices keep going up but BC-221/LM prices are down.

Freq meters ain't radios.

OBTW - check out the prices on new rotary optical encoders of decent quality,
if you're thinking about a synthesized design.

Remember that you'll probably need one with a lot of slots/steps on the encoder
disk. For example, if you want to have a tuning rate of 10 kHz turn and want
the steps to be 100 Hz, you need a 100 slot/step-per-rev encoder. If you want
faster tuning rate without sacrificing resolution, you need *more* slots/steps.

I'd simply call yer buddies at Elecraft and pay the $69.13 for a K2
encoder then swipe the circuitry it uses out of their schematics and
have 10 Hz resolution. If I was anal enough I'd pick up an FT-847
shaft encoder instead and get 100 times better resolution than ya gat
out of the K2 display . . "Do not reinvent wheels".

How many junker BC-221s can I buy for the price of one good encoder?

At five bucks a pop you could get 13 of 'em. Imagine: 13 BC-221s all
to yourself James! Orgastic! Could you stand it?

You see what some folks pulled with those licenseless HTs down in Orange
County, FL?

Nope.

Coupla kids stole school HTs (dunno if they were green dot or yellow dot or
FRS/GMRS) and then said they were gonna blow up the school, shoot teachers,
etc. Both were over Len's 14 years of age limit. Both are in really deep stuff.

Sure, transmitting radios don't need licenses or training in proper use....

I'll pass on this one. Might stir up Sweetums again.

Junior year was a trip - 5 engineering courses and working 35-39
hours/week.

That's ugly.

No car, either. Thank you SEPTA....

PRR MU-54s: 14 minutes flat from Aldan to 30th St.

but...but...they're OLD technology!

Rattlers. Not that I had any choice in the matter. I assume that by
now you've caught up with the fact that the PRR went belly up at least
partially as a result of it's antiquated capital investements. Like a
gazillion MU-54s.

Here we go, I'm gonna hold yer feet to the fire on this one Micollis.
I'm gonna show up at your place with a .dxf of a random cross-section
on a CD and you find **all** of it's cross-sectional properties within
120 seconds or you pop for my Newtown Square Ale House wet roast beef
sammich.

All I do is email the problem to you and wait for the results. Then
Microstation does a format conversion....

You SLIME!

Serious spankage, huh?

I didn't say I could solve the problem, just that I could get the results!

I'll buy the RB without a bet.

. . . you got that right . . !

What's the beverage of choice with those sammiches?

Manhattens up with rocks on the side of course.

73 de Jim, N2EY

.....still missing the old Drexel Ale House in the Bond Shopping Center.......

SOB! Major culinary disaster. Mike's on 420 in Springfield near the
trolley station is still in the biz and they're pretty decent.

w3rv

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/5/2004 6:28 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

Why are you so focussed on all MUST have a ham license to
discuss anything in here?

Where did I say that?

Lennie's typo notwithstanding, you didn't.

I didn't think so....

Just one of Lennie's SOP's (Situationally Obnoxious Posting). Keeps
reciting the same unfounded, baseless rant over and over again.

Perhaps he *feels* that he's been told he can't post here without a license.
However, his enormous volume of output belies that feeling...

What Lennie HAS been told is that perhaps if he got an Amateur Radio
license and PARTICIPATED in Amateur Radio, he would actually understand it
and be able to discuss it from an INFORMED position.

Perhaps. But not likely to ever happen.

Anyone can discuss here. I have seen no postings where somebody has told
Len to
"shut up", even though he has told others to "shut the hell up".

It's that "anger" thing he keeps accusing me and others of. "Shut the
hell up" is a very angry, antagonistic way of trying to brow-beat another.

Perhaps it was intended to incite a similar response from K8MN...

Credibility is another issue.

Again...perhasp if he could actually discuss matters from an informed,
experienced positon...As it stands, he has zero-point-zero minutes of
practical Amateur Radio experience.

Perhaps.

The most pertinent question is:

Why is Len so interested in the requirements for a ham license, since:

A) He obviously doesn't want a license
B) He isn't involved in manufacturing equipment or other products for hams
C) He's not really involved in amateur radio in any way other than verbose
newsgroup postings and FCC comments.

So why is he so interested? It's as if I, a non-golfer, made a crusade out of
getting the greens fees for nonmembers at Pebble Beach reduced...

You've discussed. You just have no experience in amateur radio, no
stake in amateur radio and no credibility in amateur radio. You needn't
have an amateur radio license at all. Does that clear things up for you?

I don't think Len understands.

How can he?

He and Brain have thier respective heads up each others backsides so far
that neither can see a thing, and what they can hear is muffled and
distorted.

Why so nasty, Steve?

More tsk. My choice of residence location is NOT primarily
motivated by any slavering desire to erect a radio station of
any kind.

Great. It looks like you've got your wish.

Ahhhhhh! But he CAN report to us on the VHF navaids from LAX! Oh joy!

Some people are into that...

Of course any of us with more than a month or two's experience in
Amateur
Radio can attest to the fact that respectable signals can be radiated from
and received by antennas that no one can see.

Well, almost no one...

Having once resided in SoCal antenna controlled neighborhoods myself I
can
attest to the fact that a wire around the eaves and fed by a decent roller
tuner and worked against a good ground can work pretty well.

Not the issue, really.

To each his own. But from descriptions and mapquest, it appears that Len's
choice was a particularly poor one for HF radio operations.

My Cincinnati home was
somewhat motivated by a desire for a good radio location. My present
home was selected in large part by a desire for a great radio location
with few neighbors. In addition, I have dark skies, a view to die for
and quiet which city and suburban dwellers don't even notice they don't
have.

Some of us notice.

Last vacuum tube receiver I DESIGNED and built was in 1964-1965.

Did you do that at work or as a "hobby" project?

I'm still waiting for Lennie to regale us with what RF devices our lives
can't do without that he allegedly had a hand in creating.

Again, not the issue.

HF. Wasn't for listening to on-off keyed radiotelegraphy! [horrors!]

Description? Pictures? Performance?

None.

Just like his Padawamn Learner's T5 logs.

Then why get in a tizzy over it?

Terrible thing! NOT A LICENSED AMATEUR DESIGNING AND
BUILDING AN HF RADIO! Call out the radio police!

And how many HF receivers have you designed and built as a "hobby" in the
intervening ~40 years?

None. Last time he dared to venture a discussion on any kind of direct
participation in radio as a hobby, he had a(n) (alleged) ricebox lineup
including an ICOM R-70.

Well, there you have it.

When I asked Len for help in designing an HF station, all he could offer was
to
point me to the Digi-Key catalog. That explained a lot, actually, because it
told me that Len doesn't really know how to do home design and construction
of
radios. Nor how to be creative in the use of available components rather
than
just what's in the catalogs.

That's not a put-down, just a fact. While Len talks a lot of theory, and
what
he did as a "professional" way back when, home construction of HF receivers,
transmitters and transceivers just isn't his thing. Look at his articles in
'ham radio' - none of them are radio construction articles.

Lennie's "contribution" to radio was getting coffee for and staying out
of
the way of the REAL radio professionals as they did REAL engineering and
design work.

How do you know that, Steve?

Besides - it's not the issue.

73 de Jim, N2EY

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (William)
Date: 10/6/2004 8:42 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

Sounds like libel.

Only if it's not true.

Are you certain it's true?

I am more certain of the honesty and reliability of the person from who
I
obtained this information than I am of Lennie or you.

You evade the question.

Are you certain that it's true?

I evaded nothing.

You constantly evade the truth.

I stated that I trust my source more than I trust ANYthing you or Lennie
say.

I asked if you were certain that your accusations were true.

You tell my how you think this source is much more this and that than
another source. Twice. So, you continue to evade the question.

If I had asked you which is the largest of the Great Lakes, and you
told me that Lake Michigan is larger than Lake Ontario, you would not
have answered the question, "Which is the largest..."

Are you certain that your accusations are true?

nonsense snipped

Oh, nevermind. You're a habitual liar.

I am sure you wished it was true.

Actually, I wished it were not true.

Well you're in luck, because it's not. See...I "made your day" by making
one of your wishes come true~!

But it is true.

We'll discuss it at next Dayton...See you there, Brain!

Stay away from me.

Afraid of having to look someone in the eyes and THEN tell your tales,
Brain?

I think you're nuts, and not to be trusted.

Whether or not I'm at Dayton will be a mystery to you.

No it won't.

Yes, it will.

More a successful con-man than
"professional in radio"

I am gald you agree.

Wherever did you get that idea?

Why, through your SILENCE, Brain!

No "SILENCE." I said "sounds like libel."

Uh uh uhhhhhhhhh!

Brain trying to wiggle out again! BAD Brain! BAD ! ! !

Crazy Steve.

Again, you provide us with yet another example of not being able to
keep
your OWN stories straight, Brain.

The story is yours. I said it looked libelous.

Oh...I SEE!

YOU can quote, re-quote, and re-re-quote ONE SENTENCE that I made, OUT OF
THE CONTEXT of the whole post that it was made in, yet when its turned on you,
suddenly you want different rules applies, written or unwritten.

"Sorry Hans, MARS IS Amateur Radio!" in any context is simply
wrong.

I hold my agreement in abayence. Exactly what are you gualled about?

I think you meant "gaulled".

Sorry. I thought you meant "gald.".

Well...there you go trying to think again.

Your bad spelling leaves a lot of room for error.

We could start with your complete lack of character, your DOCUMENTED
pattern of lying and deceit, and we can wrap it up with your complete
failure
to validate even ONE example of your self-proclaimed "superior operator"
status.

Strange. The very same thing is said about you.

Oh?

By whom?

Lennie? Vipul? YOU...?!?!

I, on the other hand, AM in the logbooks of several RRAP'ers (mixed
modes), and am on the ARRL's DXCC (also mixed modes). Certainly no "superior
operator", but then (a) I never made so stupid an assertion, (b) at least
there is third party corroboration of what I have said and/or done, and (c)
K4YZ has appeared in the various Amateur related publications on occassion in
contest result columns, public service events, and as a group pariticpant in
various club activites since I acquired the call in 97. You may refer to any
of my previous callsigns before that.

Unless you can point out an example to the contrary, I've never seen YOUR
call (ANY of your calls) in ANY publication other than one of the callsign
servers.

And that's just what we know of you from THIS forum. I shudder to
think
what any deeper investigation might reveal.

You own several Yahoo groups...(SNIP)

Yes, I do.

"CAP_Communications" has 136 members. The topic should be self
explanatory as to it's purpose and application.

"ER-Nurses" has over 400, many in Western Europe, the United Kigdom,
Australia and New Zealand, in addition to the Canadian and US members. There
was one in Uruguay, however I think she moved back to Toronto.

"CitizenSoldiers" has over 50. It's a forum for veterans, members of
the Auxiliaries, and/or any of the lawful state defense forces.

This is rich.

You (and anyone else here) are welcome to join any of them if you have
some interest in any of them. The archives of each are open, BTW, and you're
free to browse.

Thank you. I think I will take you up on that.

....(UNSNIP)...and have been kicked off of at least one.

John K's group...THAT really hurt! Owie...Ooooie....

Now...what does my "ownership" of several discussion groups have to do
with YOUR patterns of lying and deceit...?!?! Still trying to figure out how
your "PuppetBoy" brain figured that they were somehow germane to the discussion
about your online conduct.

Steve, K4YZ

It is your on-line conduct that is questionable. I was not kicked off
of any Yahoo group - you were. Doesn't play well with others. One
day there may a special interest group, Swift-Kick Veterans Against
Steve/K4CAP.

You can keep it from happening by changing your bad behavio[u]r.

Hi, hi!

Best of Luck.

Dave Heil wrote:
William wrote:

Firstly, this isn't a "radio-related" newsgroup.

But it is.


No, it isn't. Read statement below:


It is an "amateur

radio-related" newsgroup.

Please try to keep up. Notice the second "R" in RRAP? Amateur radio
is radio related.


This is not a general interest radio newsgroup.

Whooaaaaa there! While you guys are arguing minutia, I just have to
note that William is taking an exact opposite argument than he does with
his "Sorry Hans, MARS IS Amateur Radio!" line. While in that case,
he takes Steve's statement and makes a *strict* interpretation in order
to make Steve appear wrong, in this case, when speaking of rrap, he uses
a *much* looser interpretation.

Loose interpretation is that rrap is a Radio group. (which I agree with)

Strict interpretation is that being an "Amateur Radio" newsgroup it
isn't strictly speaking a "radio only" newsgroup.

Just in case anyone is giving points out for consistency!

- Mike KB3EIA -

(William) wrote in message . com...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Kellie and Jimmie want "my scores from the last Field Day" as
one loaded "challenge." :-) Not all amateurs participate in
"Field Day" and no non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate
legally. An example of a NON-challenge, already-known answer
disguised as a sort-of (sort off, really) "civil discourse" question.

No non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate legally on Field Day? I'd
think you'd get one right once in a great while, Leonard. That response
would be wrong.

No, he's right, Dave.

FCC specifically defines the term "operate an amateur radio station". It means
to be the control oeprator, responsible for rules compliance. By definition,
only a licensed ham can do that. Others "participate in amateur radio". Len
cannot legally operate an amateur radio station, according to FCC. Nor can
Michael Powell, for that matter.

That's your interpetation of the rules and I consider it far too
literal James.

Literal interpretation not permissible.

I.E., morse code exams at 5 wpm vice anything else (Farnsworth) at
12-15wpm.

I.E., monetary compensation for making a transmission (repeater
owners).

Oh, well. So much for literalisms.

By any normal standards the individual punching the
buttons, doing the tuning and doing the communicating or in any
combination is defined as the operator.

Such as the "attendant" at a military communications switch?

The Op at Brandywine wouldn't have time for your illigitimate
complaints.

Everywhere, not just in ham
radio.

Everywhere? Even at military switches? Oh, my!

In the case of ham radio Part 97 requires that a licensed ham
has to be onsite, watching and listening if the operator does not have
a ham license.

It gets mightly lonely at those mountaintop repeater sites.

But all that is besides the point.

THAT I agree with!

Amateur regulations are besides the point?

Be sure to send that sentiment to Riley, and sign it, "Extra."

What matters most in amateur radio - or any
field of endeavor, really - is what is actually done, not what's theoretically
possible. That's the point of the story about my highschool friend who had lots
of great ideas (and lots of criticism) but no station of his own. The computer
folks have a word for it: Vaporware.

Firmware? Software controlled radios?

Is an Icom R-70 evil vaporware?

A beat-up Budbox is wholesome hardware?

I think your prejudice is showing.

Who do you have more respect for, Dave:

The person with a modest amateur station who is actually on the air making QSOs

or

The person who talks endlessly about "state of the art", "better modes and
modulations", "the future of amateur radio", "progress", etc., etc., yet who
isn't on the ham bands at all?

Windbags.

That's all quite easy to say if that person has amateur operating
priveleges. Plenty of Windbags in amatuer radio. One is attributed
with high status if they have passed a Morse Code exam. Woo Hoo!

The person without operating priveleges may yet own the best ideas and
concepts wrt HF radio. You choose to deny him or her the opportunity
advance amateur radio. Too bad for all of us because of your
inexcusable prejudice.

Meanwhile, you bootlegged as a kid. But its all "good." You're an
Extra now.


Asinine from to bottom. Do yourself a big favor Burke. GROW UP.

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...

As you know I'm more than just a tad
familiar with those old surplus drives. They were designed *seven
decades* ago for use in high altitude high vibration combat
environments.

Which makes them perfect for ham rigs.

Where's the correlation? You operate the Southgate 7 at 25,000 feet
while pulling Gs and getting shot at do ya?

They're solid, all-gears, and no slip and no backlash. Lube 'em up right and
they're very low torque, too.

Usually on fixed freqs. None of which has anything to do
with ham gear particularly today's ham gear. They're miserably slow
tuning *kluges* by any realistic measure.

I *like* slow tuning. How fast did you set the dial on the '847 for FD? 5
kHz per turn?

Since you're the Chief RRAP Tuning Rates guru and you didn't have a
problem with it one way or another during FD you should know right off
what it was. So you tell me. Hmmm? (here comes my second beef sammich
. . )

10 kHz per turn.

Lookit all the "modern" HF rigs - they typically default to a tuning rate
of
5-10 kHz/turn. I was doing that in my homebrew rigs 35 years ago.

. . . . and . . . ?

I wuz decades ahead of the curve. Nowadays, almost *every* rig allows you to do
5-10 kHz/turn. 35 years ago, only the Southgate Type 3 and a very few by other
manufacturers did.

The best Millen and National could do was a weenie 10:1. Miller came up
with
that goofy 6:1/36:1 planetary that cost the earth and felt like mush.

I still have a couple very nice smooth reduction drives out that era
which would great for tuning a little DC rcvr. I wouldn't use 'em for
anything more than a small-bore app like that.

Nor would I.

The Heath harmonic gear drives were really slick too.

What were they used in? You don't mean the SB series or the HW-100 or 101.

A good BC-221, ARC-5 or LM cap will do the job better and for a lot less
money and grief. Real gear drive, low torque, nice dial, etc.

Was the S-line a "kluge"? Tuning rate was 20 kHz/turn, IIRC,

Is that a complaint or a compliment?

A little of both

and took the ham
bands in 200 kHz chunks. Covering 80/40/20/15 took 10 bandswitch positions
and
10 xtals. Plus going across certain points on the same band (say, 3590 to
3610
or 7195 to 7205) took a bandswitch move and running the dial almost end to
end.

Real Hams have a cure for that. One xtal covers the usual 3.5-3.7
segment for CW contests and other xtal covers the 3.7-3.9 segment for
the phone contests. For the 40 phone contests ya listen with the
75S-3B and transmit with a 32S-3 equipped with a 7.1-7.3 xtal.

Right. You spend big bucks for an S-line, and the first step is to spend even
more to replace three of the stock xtals. Of course they weren't expensive
compared to the S line itself.

Then
Drake came out with rigs which tuned 500 wide Khz segemnts per xtal
which completely eliminated the problem.

Drake and Heath and everybody else...

I'll take my surplus, thank you very much.

Did I ever thank you for getting all my surplus junk outta my life?

Not yet...

Oddly enough, ARC-5 prices keep going up but BC-221/LM prices are down.

Freq meters ain't radios.

True.

OBTW - check out the prices on new rotary optical encoders of decent
quality, if you're thinking about a synthesized design.

Remember that you'll probably need one with a lot of slots/steps on the
encoder
disk. For example, if you want to have a tuning rate of 10 kHz turn and
want
the steps to be 100 Hz, you need a 100 slot/step-per-rev encoder. If you
want
faster tuning rate without sacrificing resolution, you need *more*
slots/steps.

I'd simply call yer buddies at Elecraft and pay the $69.13 for a K2
encoder then swipe the circuitry it uses out of their schematics and
have 10 Hz resolution.

You also have to write the code for the controller.

If I was anal enough I'd pick up an FT-847
shaft encoder instead and get 100 times better resolution than ya gat
out of the K2 display . . "Do not reinvent wheels".

Gotta do more than the encoder.

How many junker BC-221s can I buy for the price of one good encoder?

At five bucks a pop you could get 13 of 'em. Imagine: 13 BC-221s all
to yourself James! Orgastic! Could you stand it?

Heck, I'll build a whole receiver for that. With a little help from the stock
room...

You see what some folks pulled with those licenseless HTs down in Orange
County, FL?

Nope.

Coupla kids stole school HTs (dunno if they were green dot or yellow dot or
FRS/GMRS) and then said they were gonna blow up the school, shoot teachers,
etc. Both were over Len's 14 years of age limit. Both are in really deep
stuff.

Sure, transmitting radios don't need licenses or training in proper use....

I'll pass on this one. Might stir up Sweetums again.

So?

Junior year was a trip - 5 engineering courses and working 35-39
hours/week.

That's ugly.

No car, either. Thank you SEPTA....

PRR MU-54s: 14 minutes flat from Aldan to 30th St.

but...but...they're OLD technology!

Rattlers. Not that I had any choice in the matter.

They were pretty much gone by the 1970s.

I assume that by
now you've caught up with the fact that the PRR went belly up at least
partially as a result of it's antiquated capital investements. Like a
gazillion MU-54s.

Not really.

PRR was victim of three things:

1) Overregulation by the Feds. Fixed by the Staggers Act of 1980.

2) The interstate highway system

3) A merger with the N&W was refused, but a merger with the New York Central
happened. N&W and PRR were similar operations serving different markets; such a
merger would probably have succeeded. PRR/NYC were competitors who could not
have been much more different; their merger was a complete mess from the getgo.

Oddly enough, most of what used to be the PRR is now part of the Norfolk
Southern, which is the direct descendant of the N&W. And most of what used to
be the NYC is now part of CSX.

Here we go, I'm gonna hold yer feet to the fire on this one Micollis.
I'm gonna show up at your place with a .dxf of a random cross-section
on a CD and you find **all** of it's cross-sectional properties within
120 seconds or you pop for my Newtown Square Ale House wet roast beef
sammich.

All I do is email the problem to you and wait for the results. Then
Microstation does a format conversion....

You SLIME!

Serious spankage, huh?

I didn't say I could solve the problem, just that I could get the
results!

I'll buy the RB without a bet.

. . . you got that right . . !

What's the beverage of choice with those sammiches?

Manhattens up with rocks on the side of course.

I'm droolin...

73 de Jim, N2EY

.....still missing the old Drexel Ale House in the Bond Shopping
Center.......

SOB! Major culinary disaster. Mike's on 420 in Springfield near the
trolley station is still in the biz and they're pretty decent.

I know the place. We gotta go...

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/7/2004 6:33 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/5/2004 6:28 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

More tsk. My choice of residence location is NOT primarily
motivated by any slavering desire to erect a radio station of
any kind.

Great. It looks like you've got your wish.

Ahhhhhh! But he CAN report to us on the VHF navaids from LAX! Oh joy!

Some people are into that...

After thinking about it, it makes sense....The ATIS and AWOS systems
repeat the same thing over and over and over...Kinda like Lennie's posts.

I'm still waiting for Lennie to regale us with what RF devices our
lives
can't do without that he allegedly had a hand in creating.

Again, not the issue.

Sure it is, Jim!

Lennie has insisted that his "professional" career was far more productive
and useful than anything Amateurs do. I want to know WHAT it was he thinks he
did that is so useful? What is in my home or what do I use on a daily basis
that has HIS direct participation in that I can't do without?

Lennie's "contribution" to radio was getting coffee for and staying out
of
the way of the REAL radio professionals as they did REAL engineering and
design work.

How do you know that, Steve?

From the opinions of someone who knew him and worked in the same facility
as he.

Besides - it's not the issue.

It is as long as Lennie keeps trying to throw his "professional" weight
around. He claims he's a hotshot, but I know of at least one other TRUE
professional says otherwise.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 10/7/2004 9:13 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Dave Heil wrote:
William wrote:

Firstly, this isn't a "radio-related" newsgroup.

But it is.


No, it isn't. Read statement below:


It is an "amateur

radio-related" newsgroup.

Please try to keep up. Notice the second "R" in RRAP? Amateur radio
is radio related.


This is not a general interest radio newsgroup.

Whooaaaaa there! While you guys are arguing minutia, I just have to
note that William is taking an exact opposite argument than he does with
his "Sorry Hans, MARS IS Amateur Radio!" line. While in that case,
he takes Steve's statement and makes a *strict* interpretation in order
to make Steve appear wrong, in this case, when speaking of rrap, he uses
a *much* looser interpretation.

Loose interpretation is that rrap is a Radio group. (which I agree
with)

Strict interpretation is that being an "Amateur Radio" newsgroup it
isn't strictly speaking a "radio only" newsgroup.

Just in case anyone is giving points out for consistency!

You wouldn't expect Son of Lennie to follow his own "rules", would you,
Mike?

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (William)
Date: 10/7/2004 8:49 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

We'll discuss it at next Dayton...See you there, Brain!

Stay away from me.

Afraid of having to look someone in the eyes and THEN tell your tales,
Brain?

I think you're nuts, and not to be trusted.

No...I have embarrassed you and proven you to be the charlatan that you
are.

You lack the strength of conviction to sign your real name or Amateur call
to your postings here, and you certainly lack the strength of character to face
ANYone who challenges your sense of impropiety.

You're a coward in person or behind the keyboard.

Whether or not I'm at Dayton will be a mystery to you.

No it won't.

Yes, it will.

Nope. But you keep that thought in mind if it keeps you warm Brain...Just
keep saying to yourself "...he doesn't know I am here...he doesn't know I am
here...he doesn't know I am here..."

YOU can quote, re-quote, and re-re-quote ONE SENTENCE that I made,
OUT OF
THE CONTEXT of the whole post that it was made in, yet when its turned on
you,
suddenly you want different rules applies, written or unwritten.

"Sorry Hans, MARS IS Amateur Radio!" in any context is simply
wrong.

No, it's not.

I hold my agreement in abayence. Exactly what are you gualled about?

I think you meant "gaulled".

Sorry. I thought you meant "gald.".

Well...there you go trying to think again.

Your bad spelling leaves a lot of room for error.

No it doesn't. It leaves room for YOU to make excuses, but little room for
"error".

We could start with your complete lack of character, your
DOCUMENTED
pattern of lying and deceit, and we can wrap it up with your complete
failure
to validate even ONE example of your self-proclaimed "superior operator"
status.

Strange. The very same thing is said about you.

Oh?

By whom?

Lennie? Vipul? YOU...?!?!

I, on the other hand, AM in the logbooks of several RRAP'ers (mixed
modes), and am on the ARRL's DXCC (also mixed modes). Certainly no
"superior
operator", but then (a) I never made so stupid an assertion, (b) at least
there is third party corroboration of what I have said and/or done, and (c)
K4YZ has appeared in the various Amateur related publications on occassion
in
contest result columns, public service events, and as a group pariticpant
in
various club activites since I acquired the call in 97. You may refer to
any
of my previous callsigns before that.

Unless you can point out an example to the contrary, I've never seen
YOUR
call (ANY of your calls) in ANY publication other than one of the callsign
servers.

And that's just what we know of you from THIS forum. I shudder to
think
what any deeper investigation might reveal.

You own several Yahoo groups...(SNIP)

Yes, I do.

"CAP_Communications" has 136 members. The topic should be self
explanatory as to it's purpose and application.

"ER-Nurses" has over 400, many in Western Europe, the United Kigdom,
Australia and New Zealand, in addition to the Canadian and US members.
There
was one in Uruguay, however I think she moved back to Toronto.

"CitizenSoldiers" has over 50. It's a forum for veterans, members
of
the Auxiliaries, and/or any of the lawful state defense forces.

This is rich.

No, it's facts.

Anyone with the same Internet access that you or I enjoy can immediately
verify what I have stated above. And to narrow it down a bit for anyone who
cares, they can find my DXCC "enrollment" in the August 2000 listings.

And you still haven't explained how introducing any of my Yahoo!
discussion groups is germane to ANY discussion or argument here, Brain. What's
up with that?

You (and anyone else here) are welcome to join any of them if you
have
some interest in any of them. The archives of each are open, BTW, and
you're
free to browse.

Thank you. I think I will take you up on that.

Go right ahead.

....(UNSNIP)...and have been kicked off of at least one.

John K's group...THAT really hurt! Owie...Ooooie....

Now...what does my "ownership" of several discussion groups have to do
with YOUR patterns of lying and deceit...?!?! Still trying to figure out
how
your "PuppetBoy" brain figured that they were somehow germane to the
discussion
about your online conduct.

Steve, K4YZ

It is your on-line conduct that is questionable. I was not kicked off
of any Yahoo group - you were. Doesn't play well with others. One
day there may a special interest group, Swift-Kick Veterans Against
Steve/K4CAP.

You can keep it from happening by changing your bad behavio[u]r.

Hi, hi!

Best of Luck.

No luck needed, Brain.

John "kicked me off" of his Yahoo (then OneList) group for what went on in
THIS forum, not anything that was said or transpired there. That was his one
and only way of being "one up" on someone.

Do you think I should ask the State of Ohio to revoke your driver's
license just becasue you like to lie and make up storiews on RRAP...?!?!

You will be welcomed on any of my Yahoo! forums under the very same rules
that apply to any of the other subscribers to each...There's no flaming,
there's certainly no name calling, and the conversations, with extremely rare
exception, are directly relevent to the character of the group.

I know those three rules will be hard for you to tolerate, but consider it
nurturing.

Steve, K4YZ