(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...
(William) wrote in message . com...


Len gets told that he is off topic when he posts about radio related
(but not necessarily amateur radio) topics. So he beats you guys over
the head calling attention to all of your own off topic postings.
Then you say Len has a double standard.

Hi!

You guys are less than truthful. A lot less.

Another ineffective redirection.

No redirection. My comment was germane to Jim's statement. That you
chose to clip Jim's statement is to your downfall.

Best of Luck nextime!

Subject: Designed And Built By PROFESSIONALS....
From: (William)
Date: 10/31/2004 9:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: Designed And Built By PROFESSIONALS....
From: (William)
Date: 10/31/2004 7:53 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:

There's no reasoning with emotional belief systems...such as the
PCTA's insistence that all who come after must jump through the
same hoops they had to when younger.

You have a point. There is no reasoning with emotional belief systems.
Take a guy who believes that those tested in amateur radio are "jumping
through hoops" or that the testing elements given today are the same as
those in years past. How would you deal with such a guy?

True enough. The Volunteer Examiners are giving Farnsworth exams
rather than the FCC/Part 97 specified Morse Code exams.

There is no such thing as a "Farnsworth exam".

Volunteer examiners will tell you otherwise.

And supposedly being a VE, you should know that.

I am a VE and I've never administered a "Farnsworth" examination.

They do not exist.

The FCC is required to ensure that all exams and exam materials used
in
the conduct of exams on their behalf are appropriate.

The FCC is required to ensure that what they enforce on Howard Stern
is also enforced on Oprah.

I suppose there was a point to this...?!?!

I said before the restructuring and I'll say it again, "What I fear
most about restructuring is a lack of enforcement, and what I fear
most about maintaining the status quo is a lack of enforcement."

Amateur Radio is now in it's 30th year of a lack of enforcement.

How would you know?

You've not been a licensed Amateur that long.

And Amateur Radio haas not had a lack of enforcement...they've had a lack
of ADEQUATE enforcement.

To the best of my knowledge,

Well there you go. You're basing your opinion upon your own limited
knowledge.

I dare say MY "limits" are far more expansive than yours. As a matter of
fact, I KNOW they are!

not a single exam in service today has been
identified by the FCC as being inappropriate or not in confomance with FCC
requirements, nor has the FCC ever directed the removal from service of any
Morse Code exam as unacceptable.

Nor would they. It is Morse Code that is specified in Part 97.
You're going to have to try a little harder to unseat my informed
opinion.

What "informed opinion"...???

You are talking about a "Farnsworth" exam which does not exist.

That's pretty STUPID, Brain, but then that's nothing new from you.

There's very little of ANYthing you've engaged in this forum that
indicates that you are "informed" at all...

Steve, K4YZ

Yeh, sure. Whatever.

Yeah..."Whatever"...

Steve, K4YZ

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

The Volunteer Examiners are giving Farnsworth exams
rather than the FCC/Part 97 specified Morse Code exams.

Farnsworth exams? I don't believe I've ever heard of any candidate for
an amateur radio license taking such an exam.

Farnsworth spacing is one way of sending Morse Code. It's been around for
decades and has been recognized by FCC and the ITU as meeting all the
requirements for the Morse Code test.

IOW, Farnsworth spacing is a subset of the set of ways to send Morse Code. So,
by definition, all Farnsworth-spaced Morse Code *is* Morse code, even though
all Morse Code is not Farnsworth-spaced.

73 de Jim, N2EY.

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: Designed And Built By PROFESSIONALS....
From: (William)
Date: 10/31/2004 9:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: Designed And Built By PROFESSIONALS....
From: (William)
Date: 10/31/2004 7:53 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:

There's no reasoning with emotional belief systems...such as the
PCTA's insistence that all who come after must jump through the
same hoops they had to when younger.

You have a point. There is no reasoning with emotional belief systems.
Take a guy who believes that those tested in amateur radio are "jumping
through hoops" or that the testing elements given today are the same as
those in years past. How would you deal with such a guy?

True enough. The Volunteer Examiners are giving Farnsworth exams
rather than the FCC/Part 97 specified Morse Code exams.

There is no such thing as a "Farnsworth exam".

Volunteer examiners will tell you otherwise.

And supposedly being a VE, you should know that.

I am a VE and I've never administered a "Farnsworth" examination.

They do not exist.

Here's a hint: it's the default exam. The examinee must ask for the
real Morse Exam if they want to comply with Part 97.

The FCC is required to ensure that all exams and exam materials used
in
the conduct of exams on their behalf are appropriate.

The FCC is required to ensure that what they enforce on Howard Stern
is also enforced on Oprah.

I suppose there was a point to this...?!?!

Jim said it, too. Certainly he had a point.

I said before the restructuring and I'll say it again, "What I fear
most about restructuring is a lack of enforcement, and what I fear
most about maintaining the status quo is a lack of enforcement."

Amateur Radio is now in it's 30th year of a lack of enforcement.

How would you know?

You've not been a licensed Amateur that long.

And Amateur Radio haas not had a lack of enforcement...they've had a lack
of ADEQUATE enforcement.

Hmmmm? I wonder what I meant by "lack?"

To the best of my knowledge,

Well there you go. You're basing your opinion upon your own limited
knowledge.

I dare say MY "limits" are far more expansive than yours. As a matter of
fact, I KNOW they are!

They may be. But if you didn't pay attention during your exposure,
then your knowledge and opinions will be found lacking.

not a single exam in service today has been
identified by the FCC as being inappropriate or not in confomance with FCC
requirements, nor has the FCC ever directed the removal from service of any
Morse Code exam as unacceptable.

Nor would they. It is Morse Code that is specified in Part 97.
You're going to have to try a little harder to unseat my informed
opinion.

What "informed opinion"...???

You are talking about a "Farnsworth" exam which does not exist.

Then why would the ARRL and then the NCVEC make an announcement that
henceforth all of their default code exams would be Farnsworth? That
you could still take the real Morse exam if you knew to ask for it?

That's pretty STUPID, Brain, but then that's nothing new from you.

There's very little of ANYthing you've engaged in this forum that
indicates that you are "informed" at all...

That shows just how uninformed you are.

Steve, K4YZ

Yeh, sure. Whatever.

Yeah..."Whatever"...

Steve, K4YZ

Ditto.

In article ,
(William) writes:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:

There's no reasoning with emotional belief systems...such as the
PCTA's insistence that all who come after must jump through the
same hoops they had to when younger.

You have a point. There is no reasoning with emotional belief systems.
Take a guy who believes that those tested in amateur radio are "jumping
through hoops" or that the testing elements given today are the same as
those in years past. How would you deal with such a guy?

True enough. The Volunteer Examiners are giving Farnsworth exams
rather than the FCC/Part 97 specified Morse Code exams.

The FCC still hasn't updated its regulations on U.S. amateur radio
(Part 97, Title 47 C.F.R) in regards to test element 1 on morse
code. The referenced CCIR document has been superseded by
the ITU. Neither is there a specific definition of "word rate" that is
clear and unambiguous.

A past FCC "decision" was the tacit "approval" of VECs to allow
Farnsworth spacing in testing, yet that has never been officially
approved (except by the ARRL, the other "officiating" body in U.S.
amateur radio) nor does it appear in any regulation errata or other
corrections. The appearance (on the surface) is that Farnsworth
spacing is "legal" simply because the FCC hasn't bothered to
correct its own regulations for over a dozen years.

"Dave" handles his emotional belief system in the barbarian's
way - either Believe in Him and His or be subject to all kinds of
heckling, cat-calling, personal insults, and the like. It is "Dave's"
Way or the highway. "Dave" is Boss. Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: Designed And Built By PROFESSIONALS....
From: (William)
Date: 10/31/2004 7:53 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:

There's no reasoning with emotional belief systems...such as the
PCTA's insistence that all who come after must jump through the
same hoops they had to when younger.

You have a point. There is no reasoning with emotional belief systems.
Take a guy who believes that those tested in amateur radio are "jumping
through hoops" or that the testing elements given today are the same as
those in years past. How would you deal with such a guy?

True enough. The Volunteer Examiners are giving Farnsworth exams
rather than the FCC/Part 97 specified Morse Code exams.

There is no such thing as a "Farnsworth exam".

Volunteer examiners will tell you otherwise.

"Steve" says he's a VE and he's OK. :-)

And supposedly being a VE, you should know that.

Whatever "Steve" does is OK. Under "Steve Rulez."

The FCC is required to ensure that all exams and exam materials used in
the conduct of exams on their behalf are appropriate.

The FCC is required to ensure that what they enforce on Howard Stern
is also enforced on Oprah.

According to "Steve," the FCC pays a lot of attention to what a bunch
of radio hobbyists do in the service of their country...

In reality there is a difference story...but the fantasylanders don't
want to tarnish the patina of their embellishments.

I said before the restructuring and I'll say it again, "What I fear
most about restructuring is a lack of enforcement, and what I fear
most about maintaining the status quo is a lack of enforcement."

Amateur Radio is now in it's 30th year of a lack of enforcement.

Actually, longer. CB (on HF) became legal 46 years ago...NO
code test then to get on HF, not even a single test to take.

After a few years the "licensure" (token callsign on completion
of application) was removed.

To the best of my knowledge,

Well there you go. You're basing your opinion upon your own limited
knowledge.

True enough. But, "Steve" has LICENSURE and is "fully authorized"
to operate (radiating RF) within the boundaries of amateur radio
regulations. That's enough to make him imagine anything that he
wants is real, legal, and the Absolute Truth. [I still say it is all due
to some post-traumatic stress problem, perhaps from those "seven
hostile actions"]

not a single exam in service today has been
identified by the FCC as being inappropriate or not in confomance with FCC
requirements, nor has the FCC ever directed the removal from service of any
Morse Code exam as unacceptable.

Nor would they. It is Morse Code that is specified in Part 97.
You're going to have to try a little harder to unseat my informed
opinion.

The FCC still hasn't fully qualified its own definition of International
Morse Code in Part 97, Title 47 C.F.R. Neither do they fully
and unambiguously define telegraphy "word rate."

However, "Steve" imagines he is still Boss NCO of the unit and
gives Orders as if everyone else were the recruits in the "corps."
As if...

Steve, K4YZ

Yeh, sure. Whatever.

Opus' Mayor Bill (the Cat) has the last word..."Pbthththth..." :-)

Subject: Designed And Built By PROFESSIONALS....
From: (William)
Date: 11/3/2004 1:45 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

I am a VE and I've never administered a "Farnsworth" examination.

They do not exist.

Here's a hint: it's the default exam. The examinee must ask for the
real Morse Exam if they want to comply with Part 97.

There is no such thing as a Farnsworth exam.

And Amateur Radio haas not had a lack of enforcement...they've had a
lack
of ADEQUATE enforcement.

Hmmmm? I wonder what I meant by "lack?"

Your original statement was worded in such a way as to insinuate that
there'd been NO enforcement.

That was not tue.

MORE enforcement was what was needed then...And still true today.

To the best of my knowledge,

Well there you go. You're basing your opinion upon your own limited
knowledge.

I dare say MY "limits" are far more expansive than yours. As a matter
of
fact, I KNOW they are!

They may be. But if you didn't pay attention during your exposure,
then your knowledge and opinions will be found lacking.

So far, nothing you've been able to "bring up" has exceeded my skills,
knowledge or experience, Brain.

What "informed opinion"...???

You are talking about a "Farnsworth" exam which does not exist.

Then why would the ARRL and then the NCVEC make an announcement that
henceforth all of their default code exams would be Farnsworth? That
you could still take the real Morse exam if you knew to ask for it?

That's pretty STUPID, Brain, but then that's nothing new from you.

There's very little of ANYthing you've engaged in this forum that
indicates that you are "informed" at all...

That shows just how uninformed you are.

Not as of this moment.

You still are an idiot and you are still making unfounded and irrational
assertions.

Steve, K4YZ

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: Designed And Built By PROFESSIONALS....
From: (William)
Date: 10/31/2004 7:53 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:

There's no reasoning with emotional belief systems...such as the
PCTA's insistence that all who come after must jump through the
same hoops they had to when younger.

You have a point. There is no reasoning with emotional belief systems.
Take a guy who believes that those tested in amateur radio are "jumping
through hoops" or that the testing elements given today are the same as
those in years past. How would you deal with such a guy?

True enough. The Volunteer Examiners are giving Farnsworth exams
rather than the FCC/Part 97 specified Morse Code exams.

There is no such thing as a "Farnsworth exam".

Volunteer examiners will tell you otherwise.

"Steve" says he's a VE and he's OK. :-)

And supposedly being a VE, you should know that.

Whatever "Steve" does is OK. Under "Steve Rulez."

The FCC is required to ensure that all exams and exam materials used in
the conduct of exams on their behalf are appropriate.

The FCC is required to ensure that what they enforce on Howard Stern
is also enforced on Oprah.

According to "Steve," the FCC pays a lot of attention to what a bunch
of radio hobbyists do in the service of their country...

In reality there is a difference story...but the fantasylanders don't
want to tarnish the patina of their embellishments.

I said before the restructuring and I'll say it again, "What I fear
most about restructuring is a lack of enforcement, and what I fear
most about maintaining the status quo is a lack of enforcement."

Amateur Radio is now in it's 30th year of a lack of enforcement.

Actually, longer. CB (on HF) became legal 46 years ago...NO
code test then to get on HF, not even a single test to take.

After a few years the "licensure" (token callsign on completion
of application) was removed.

To the best of my knowledge,

Well there you go. You're basing your opinion upon your own limited
knowledge.

True enough. But, "Steve" has LICENSURE and is "fully authorized"
to operate (radiating RF) within the boundaries of amateur radio
regulations. That's enough to make him imagine anything that he
wants is real, legal, and the Absolute Truth. [I still say it is all due
to some post-traumatic stress problem, perhaps from those "seven
hostile actions"]

not a single exam in service today has been
identified by the FCC as being inappropriate or not in confomance with FCC
requirements, nor has the FCC ever directed the removal from service of any
Morse Code exam as unacceptable.

Nor would they. It is Morse Code that is specified in Part 97.
You're going to have to try a little harder to unseat my informed
opinion.

The FCC still hasn't fully qualified its own definition of International
Morse Code in Part 97, Title 47 C.F.R. Neither do they fully
and unambiguously define telegraphy "word rate."

However, "Steve" imagines he is still Boss NCO of the unit and
gives Orders as if everyone else were the recruits in the "corps."
As if...

Steve, K4YZ

Yeh, sure. Whatever.

Opus' Mayor Bill (the Cat) has the last word..."Pbthththth..." :-)



Steve has an incredibly uninformed knowledge bank wrt Volunteer
Examining. Luckily for the ARS, he is busy being a volunteer for
numerous other organizations.

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , Robert Casey
writes:


Well, except to some who wish to turn this newsgroup into
a quasi-private Chat Room involving their own desires and
preferences..and to have them damn all others for not thinking
and feeling as they do. [yourself excluded]

That's a pretty good summation of what *you* want from this newsgroup,
Len.
After all, you're the one telling other people to "shut the hell up"..

I've thought that Lenover21 wanted to be the moderator in here. He
claims otherwise.

It's how he acts that makes the claims ring hollow. Perhaps it's time to
repost the "feldwebel" classic...

Saw him in a movie. Sittin atop an A-Bomb. Oooop! He jarred it
loose.

"Dr. Strangelove." :-)

No, that's not how it happened in the movie.

Yeah, like a (mximum) 200 pound male can "jar loose" 4000
pounds of bomb (approximate weight of a special weapons of the
time) from its shackles designed to take many g of force. :-)

Tsk. These guys go to the movies and think that all the FICTION
they see is the TRVTH and nothing but... :-)

Ya never saw it, didja?

The relevant question is "Steel chassis or Aluminum chassis?"

Depends on the application.

"Greenlee punch or Nibbler?"

Such relevant questions.

From two nonbuilders...

Actually, it would be. Jimmie say he build with "recycled parts"
and his "rig" didn't cost him more than $100.

That's true.

Now anyone considering any sort of metal work for radios had
better have $ome money since an average aluminum chassis
from Bud Industries, LMB-Heeger, or Hammond Manufacturing
(good folks in Canada) is going to cost about $30...and that isn't
including a bottom cover plate.
Metal cabinets are Out Of Sight.
Check any catalog, paper or on-line, Allied, Newark, DigiKey,
Mouser, even Ocean State Electronics.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk.

Your imagination is limited to what you see in the catalogs of new parts.

Some alloys of aluminum are sort of malleable. 2024 is somewhat
that way but don't bend it too much. 6061 is NOT. One can't take
a chunk of ordinary aluminum and hammer it flat to fill in the holes
(using "recycled" i.e., previously-used), then bend/brake it back to
some new shape.

Why would anyone go through all that?

That means BUYING chassis somewhere...or
snaffling ("swipe") them.

You mean steal? I don't do that.

Do you have a guilty conscience, Len?

At early 1990 prices, that average
chassis alluded to before would cost about $25. So, for six chassis
in the photograph that would be a total of about $150.

Except they weren't bought new out of catalogs. Which drastically reduces the
price paid.

The excuse to be given will be that he "bought it at a flea market"
or some hamvention for "a very low price." :-)

How is that an "excuse", Len? It's the truth, in some cases. In others,
chassis, panels and other parts were recycled from other sources.

For example, the transmitter section is built in the case from a BC-191/375
tuning unit, with a new panel made from a piece of sheet aluminum. Total cost
about $2.

Whatever the story is, it will have the usual embellishments, the
brags of greatness, the usual suspects. :-)

You mean like the guy who claimed to have handled X million messages per month
24/7 at a military radio station, but didn't bother to mention the 700+ other
personnel there at the time?

Or the guy who claims to have operated from T5 but cannot recall what bands,
modes, radios, or antennas were used?

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(William) writes:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:

There's no reasoning with emotional belief systems...such as the
PCTA's insistence that all who come after must jump through the
same hoops they had to when younger.

You have a point. There is no reasoning with emotional belief systems.
Take a guy who believes that those tested in amateur radio are "jumping
through hoops" or that the testing elements given today are the same as
those in years past. How would you deal with such a guy?

True enough. The Volunteer Examiners are giving Farnsworth exams
rather than the FCC/Part 97 specified Morse Code exams.

The FCC still hasn't updated its regulations on U.S. amateur radio
(Part 97, Title 47 C.F.R) in regards to test element 1 on morse
code. The referenced CCIR document has been superseded by
the ITU. Neither is there a specific definition of "word rate" that is
clear and unambiguous.

A past FCC "decision" was the tacit "approval" of VECs to allow
Farnsworth spacing in testing, yet that has never been officially
approved (except by the ARRL, the other "officiating" body in U.S.
amateur radio) nor does it appear in any regulation errata or other
corrections. The appearance (on the surface) is that Farnsworth
spacing is "legal" simply because the FCC hasn't bothered to
correct its own regulations for over a dozen years.

"Dave" handles his emotional belief system in the barbarian's
way - either Believe in Him and His or be subject to all kinds of
heckling, cat-calling, personal insults, and the like. It is "Dave's"
Way or the highway. "Dave" is Boss. Quod Erat Demonstrandum.



It is a sad state of affairs the the organization that specifies a
Morse Code Exam cannot define Morse Code. Usurpers of regulatory
authority took it upon themselves up the reduced 5 WPM rate to a
healthy 13-15 WPM rate in defiance of Part 97.