Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:
In article . net, "KØHB"
writes:

I believe that ARRL is wasting our money
trying to be a political force,

I disagree, Hans. Without some political action, ham radio will simply be
legislated out of existence - eventually.

We haven't gotten everyhting we wanted in the BPL fight. Neither did the BPL
folks get everything *they* wanted.

and (MORE IMPORTANTLY) that I think that
the same money would be better spent on efforts which renewed the
Amateur Radio reputation for technical innovation.

Why can't there be money to do both?

More important:

What, exactly, should we hams be doing to renew that reputation?

Funny you should ask!

I have started to put together a "Near Space Science" group. I made
initial calls for interest a few months ago, and made my pitch at our
club meeting this week.

The response was excellent, both at the meeting and afterward in
private. At the moment it looks like we are going to make this happen.

EXCELLENT!

The likely scenario is that we will be working with local schools and
other interested parties as well as among fellow Hams to launch
experiments - both ARS and Educational - to the shores of space at
around 100,000 feet above the earth, and then return them safely.

I presume you're talking about high altitude balloons. 100,000 ft =
about 19 miles

This is a ripe field for experimentation and innovation. There are
groups that are already doing this, and I see many innovations to be
made, and improvements in technique that may be possible.

Let's see...radio, power, position reporting, remote control,
tracking, launch, recovery...

The efforts are a public relations windfall if they are done correctly.
It is a great way to get our name out in the community, both locally and
nationally.

Yep.

This can all be accomplished for a surprisingly low cost. It is also a
cross-interest project where people of many different interests and
disciplines can contribute. It isn't just Hams.

Agreed!

Outside of a gvt/university environment, Ham radio is the most
practical way to go.

Perhaps it could be done in cooperation with a university. A wide
range of talents are needed to make such a project actually happen.
For example: what permits are needed to legally launch a package
weighing, say, 10 pounds?

We have licenses, methods, and applicable
frequencies to use.

An important feature of the idea is that actually putting together a
project would involve a lot of ingenuity and adaptation. For example,
it occurs to me that it would be really neat to send aloft a GPS
receiver as part of the package, which would then transmit the
package's location to trackers below. Sample problem: how do we
interface a GPS receiver to the transmitter system to do that?

The end result might be called a "kluge" by some naysayers, but all
that really matters is gettting the job done.

Don't know if any of you folks in the PA and local area are interested
in getting involved, but if so, we can discuss it here or by private email.

Not to be a wet blanket, *but*...

Here in the Philly metro area and other similar places, the question
of coordination with air traffic control and the difficulties of
tracking and recovery may preclude such experiments *in this area*.
Still a good idea, though, and there may be nearby areas where such
launches would be practical.

So there you are Jim. A way to innovate, experiment, and have fun at
the same time. Also a great P.R. effort that gets our message out to the
public in a way that they can understand as a "hi-tech" endeavor.

I *like* it!

More important, it's exactly the sort of "PBI" thing Hans was talking
about.

And how about this:

In order to make tracking, telemetry, and recovery easier, the
instrument package could send periodic transmissions in Morse Code so
that no special ground equipment would be needed for many functions.
Any ham with a receiver for the band in question (and a little skill)
could listen for the package, collect data, and send in reports.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

N2EY wrote:

In article . net, "KØHB"
writes:



I believe that ARRL is wasting our money
trying to be a political force,



I disagree, Hans. Without some political action, ham radio will simply be
legislated out of existence - eventually.


We haven't gotten everyhting we wanted in the BPL fight. Neither did the BPL
folks get everything *they* wanted.



and (MORE IMPORTANTLY) that I think that
the same money would be better spent on efforts which renewed the
Amateur Radio reputation for technical innovation.



Why can't there be money to do both?



More important:



What, exactly, should we hams be doing to renew that reputation?


Funny you should ask!


I have started to put together a "Near Space Science" group. I made
initial calls for interest a few months ago, and made my pitch at our
club meeting this week.

The response was excellent, both at the meeting and afterward in
private. At the moment it looks like we are going to make this happen.


EXCELLENT!


The likely scenario is that we will be working with local schools and
other interested parties as well as among fellow Hams to launch
experiments - both ARS and Educational - to the shores of space at
around 100,000 feet above the earth, and then return them safely.


I presume you're talking about high altitude balloons. 100,000 ft =
about 19 miles

Yup.

This is a ripe field for experimentation and innovation. There are
groups that are already doing this, and I see many innovations to be
made, and improvements in technique that may be possible.


Let's see...radio, power, position reporting, remote control,
tracking, launch, recovery...

Indeed. I noted in a reply to Brian which I moved to a subthread, that
we are probably not going to be inventing as much as we used to, so it
is now time to innovate.


The efforts are a public relations windfall if they are done correctly.
It is a great way to get our name out in the community, both locally and
nationally.


Yep.


This can all be accomplished for a surprisingly low cost. It is also a
cross-interest project where people of many different interests and
disciplines can contribute. It isn't just Hams.


Agreed!


Outside of a gvt/university environment, Ham radio is the most
practical way to go.


Perhaps it could be done in cooperation with a university. A wide
range of talents are needed to make such a project actually happen.

Possibly. I would prefer to tap into talents of volunteers ( likely
from the University!! ;^) ) but a direct collaboration would prove a
little complex.


For example: what permits are needed to legally launch a package
weighing, say, 10 pounds?

Permits, no. But there are some definite rules you have to follow. If
you keep the payload at 6 pounds or below, the rules aren't too
daunting. Its more of a "let us know" thing.

We have licenses, methods, and applicable
frequencies to use.


An important feature of the idea is that actually putting together a
project would involve a lot of ingenuity and adaptation. For example,
it occurs to me that it would be really neat to send aloft a GPS
receiver as part of the package, which would then transmit the
package's location to trackers below. Sample problem: how do we
interface a GPS receiver to the transmitter system to do that?

Good thinking, Jim! Yup, that's what we would do. The GPS is interfaced
with a Packet radio, and the data sent to earth to be processed by computer.

One more use for a supposedly "dead" mode!



The end result might be called a "kluge" by some naysayers, but all
that really matters is gettting the job done.

Kluge? It is a integration of off the shelf components applied in a
novel way to achieve results that were very difficult even 10 years ago.

But yeah, some will call it a kluge!

Don't know if any of you folks in the PA and local area are interested
in getting involved, but if so, we can discuss it here or by private email.


Not to be a wet blanket, *but*...

Here in the Philly metro area and other similar places, the question
of coordination with air traffic control and the difficulties of
tracking and recovery may preclude such experiments *in this area*.
Still a good idea, though, and there may be nearby areas where such
launches would be practical.

Launches would likely be in Central PA, Just east of the Alleghenies.
Landings would be in the eastern part. We will try to keep it within a
hundred miles or so. One of the interesting parts of this is that the
payload won't be spending all that much time where it could present a
problem.


So there you are Jim. A way to innovate, experiment, and have fun at
the same time. Also a great P.R. effort that gets our message out to the
public in a way that they can understand as a "hi-tech" endeavor.


I *like* it!

More important, it's exactly the sort of "PBI" thing Hans was talking
about.

And how about this:

In order to make tracking, telemetry, and recovery easier, the
instrument package could send periodic transmissions in Morse Code so
that no special ground equipment would be needed for many functions.
Any ham with a receiver for the band in question (and a little skill)
could listen for the package, collect data, and send in reports.

That is certainly a part of the package. The location beacon transmits
to the hunters, and of course if the payload goes off course, having
local hams get a fix is a big help.

I want to get some HF experiments going on some of the flights. Not
sure exactly what yet.

BUt I can see this has you thinking!

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:
In article . net, "KØHB"
writes:

I believe that ARRL is wasting our money
trying to be a political force,

I disagree, Hans. Without some political action, ham radio will simply be
legislated out of existence - eventually.

We haven't gotten everyhting we wanted in the BPL fight. Neither did the BPL
folks get everything *they* wanted.

and (MORE IMPORTANTLY) that I think that
the same money would be better spent on efforts which renewed the
Amateur Radio reputation for technical innovation.

Why can't there be money to do both?

More important:

What, exactly, should we hams be doing to renew that reputation?

Funny you should ask!

I have started to put together a "Near Space Science" group. I made
initial calls for interest a few months ago, and made my pitch at our
club meeting this week.

The response was excellent, both at the meeting and afterward in
private. At the moment it looks like we are going to make this happen.

EXCELLENT!

The likely scenario is that we will be working with local schools and
other interested parties as well as among fellow Hams to launch
experiments - both ARS and Educational - to the shores of space at
around 100,000 feet above the earth, and then return them safely.

I presume you're talking about high altitude balloons. 100,000 ft =
about 19 miles

This is a ripe field for experimentation and innovation. There are
groups that are already doing this, and I see many innovations to be
made, and improvements in technique that may be possible.

Let's see...radio, power, position reporting, remote control,
tracking, launch, recovery...

The efforts are a public relations windfall if they are done correctly.
It is a great way to get our name out in the community, both locally and
nationally.

Yep.

This can all be accomplished for a surprisingly low cost. It is also a
cross-interest project where people of many different interests and
disciplines can contribute. It isn't just Hams.

Agreed!

Outside of a gvt/university environment, Ham radio is the most
practical way to go.

Perhaps it could be done in cooperation with a university. A wide
range of talents are needed to make such a project actually happen.
For example: what permits are needed to legally launch a package
weighing, say, 10 pounds?

We have licenses, methods, and applicable
frequencies to use.

An important feature of the idea is that actually putting together a
project would involve a lot of ingenuity and adaptation. For example,
it occurs to me that it would be really neat to send aloft a GPS
receiver as part of the package, which would then transmit the
package's location to trackers below. Sample problem: how do we
interface a GPS receiver to the transmitter system to do that?

The end result might be called a "kluge" by some naysayers, but all
that really matters is gettting the job done.

Don't know if any of you folks in the PA and local area are interested
in getting involved, but if so, we can discuss it here or by private email.

Not to be a wet blanket, *but*...

Here in the Philly metro area and other similar places, the question
of coordination with air traffic control . . .

No sweat, just call PHL tower on 118.50 and let 'em know yer about to
launch. They'll love it and you'll get to meet the FBI folk who serve
your neighborhood real quick . . .


and the difficulties of
tracking and recovery may preclude such experiments *in this area*.
Still a good idea, though, and there may be nearby areas where such
launches would be practical.

So there you are Jim. A way to innovate, experiment, and have fun at
the same time. Also a great P.R. effort that gets our message out to the
public in a way that they can understand as a "hi-tech" endeavor.

I *like* it!

More important, it's exactly the sort of "PBI" thing Hans was talking
about.

And how about this:

In order to make tracking, telemetry, and recovery easier, the
instrument package could send periodic transmissions in Morse Code so
that no special ground equipment would be needed for many functions.
Any ham with a receiver for the band in question (and a little skill)
could listen for the package, collect data, and send in reports.

Then what?


73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv