Do I really need a license from the FCC
 

I just bought two Uniden GMRS 2-way radios for $20. I plan to use
them while shopping in the mall and while out playing paintball. Do I
really need to get an $80 5-year license from the FCC? What does the
license protect against? Its not like I'm given my own frequency.

Thanks for your help

"Dolemite" wrote in message
om...
I just bought two Uniden GMRS 2-way radios for $20. I plan to use
them while shopping in the mall and while out playing paintball. Do I
really need to get an $80 5-year license from the FCC? What does the
license protect against? Its not like I'm given my own frequency.

Thanks for your help

Allowing you to buy a radio that requires a license, but not requiring you
to have or buy the license before purchase makes as much sense as selling
high powered amplifiers to CBers without requiring them to show evidence
that the buyer is licensed for its use, or at least willing to sign a
statement that they understand they must have a license before using the
amplifier on the air. (The statement should have the buyer's address as
well, and list the penalties for illegal use.) It's almost like the
government doesn't care, isn't it? And such laws come from the same group
that raids the funds put away for social security and generates deficit
budgets. Does the FCC care about the license? Probably only if they get a
complaint about how you are using it. Anyone know what the fine might be??

ak

"King Zulu" wrote in message
news:rF9nd.115455$R05.113527@attbi_s53...

"Dolemite" wrote in message
om...
I just bought two Uniden GMRS 2-way radios for $20. I plan to use
them while shopping in the mall and while out playing paintball. Do I
really need to get an $80 5-year license from the FCC? What does the
license protect against? Its not like I'm given my own frequency.

Thanks for your help

Allowing you to buy a radio that requires a license, but not requiring you
to have or buy the license before purchase makes as much sense as selling
high powered amplifiers to CBers without requiring them to show evidence
that the buyer is licensed for its use, or at least willing to sign a
statement that they understand they must have a license before using the
amplifier on the air. (The statement should have the buyer's address as
well, and list the penalties for illegal use.) It's almost like the
government doesn't care, isn't it? And such laws come from the same group
that raids the funds put away for social security and generates deficit
budgets. Does the FCC care about the license? Probably only if they get a
complaint about how you are using it. Anyone know what the fine might be??


Unlicensed operation can be fined as much as $10,000. So $80 for five years
is a pretty cheap to insure that one doesn't get fined for unlicensed
operation.

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:06:13 -0800, Dolemite wrote:

I just bought two Uniden GMRS 2-way radios for $20. I plan to use them
while shopping in the mall and while out playing paintball. Do I really
need to get an $80 5-year license from the FCC? What does the license
protect against?


A $7 to $10,000 fine. Just get the license.

Thanks alot for everyone's responses. I just had the handsets
delivered yesterday. Am I missing something here? Why would someone
complain about me using a hand held radio on occassion for brief
periods of time? Its not like I'm broadcasting a pirate radio station
or purposly messing with other communications. Are there accounts of
the FCC going after private users for consumer products? My
intension is to use the radios while out camping or playing paintball,
maybe if I get lost in the mall so my girlfriend can guide me through
it.

I was on the FCC website already (was going to swallow the $80) and
realized all I had to do was send a check for the license. There's
not testing or training involved. Again, it doesn't make sense for
paying for an $80 license for a $20 product. Will having the license
teach me anything new about how to use the product? It seems more
like an added tax on a purchased product than ensuring users know how
to properly use the product.

Again, thank you for everyone's responses.

Tom Randy wrote in message ...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:06:13 -0800, Dolemite wrote:

I just bought two Uniden GMRS 2-way radios for $20. I plan to use them
while shopping in the mall and while out playing paintball. Do I really
need to get an $80 5-year license from the FCC? What does the license
protect against?


A $7 to $10,000 fine. Just get the license.

It would be better to return the GMRS radios and get FRS radios instead. No
license is required for the latter.

It doesn't make sense to risk a $10,000 fine. The FCC usually issues the
max fine allowed not the min. And yes they do go after people for violating
the regs even for consumer goods.

For GMRS, the license is merely a money raising scheme for the government.
It has nothing to do with technical expertise. But then since one is not
allowed to modify the radios in anyway or connect them to other products, no
technical expertise is required.


"Dolemite" wrote in message
om...
Thanks alot for everyone's responses. I just had the handsets
delivered yesterday. Am I missing something here? Why would someone
complain about me using a hand held radio on occassion for brief
periods of time? Its not like I'm broadcasting a pirate radio station
or purposly messing with other communications. Are there accounts of
the FCC going after private users for consumer products? My
intension is to use the radios while out camping or playing paintball,
maybe if I get lost in the mall so my girlfriend can guide me through
it.

I was on the FCC website already (was going to swallow the $80) and
realized all I had to do was send a check for the license. There's
not testing or training involved. Again, it doesn't make sense for
paying for an $80 license for a $20 product. Will having the license
teach me anything new about how to use the product? It seems more
like an added tax on a purchased product than ensuring users know how
to properly use the product.

Again, thank you for everyone's responses.

Tom Randy wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:06:13 -0800, Dolemite wrote:

I just bought two Uniden GMRS 2-way radios for $20. I plan to use
them
while shopping in the mall and while out playing paintball. Do I
really
need to get an $80 5-year license from the FCC? What does the license
protect against?


A $7 to $10,000 fine. Just get the license.

In a nutshell -- using a radio to transmit on a band that requires a
license -- is against the law.

You can rationalize and complain all day long -- but the above fact is the
bottom line.

Lots of laws "make no sense" but laws are laws -- break them and suffer
possible consequences.

Will you get caught -- maybe -- maybe not -- why take the chance ?

Keep in mind that those that paid for a license will take a dim view of
those who don't -- may even turn you in.

That is a given on the Ham bands, we are very protective of the privileges.
I suspect the GMRS folks are also.

Perhaps investigate alternatives

1. CB Radio -- no license
2. FRS Radio -- no license

My wife and kids and I use FRS radios all the time -- Shopping Malls,
Disneyland, camping etc. And FRS radios are very inexpensive.

Yes they have a limited range -- so if you want broader coverage -- get a
Ham license.

I can talk thru a repeater to ranges over 50 miles on VHF/UHF with hundreds
of frequencies and also world wide on HF

Ham tickets are easy --See URL:
http://www.arrl.org/hamradio.html

--
The Anon Keyboard
I doubt, therefore I might be



"Dolemite" wrote in message
om...
Thanks alot for everyone's responses. I just had the handsets
delivered yesterday. Am I missing something here? Why would someone
complain about me using a hand held radio on occassion for brief
periods of time? Its not like I'm broadcasting a pirate radio station
or purposly messing with other communications. Are there accounts of
the FCC going after private users for consumer products? My
intension is to use the radios while out camping or playing paintball,
maybe if I get lost in the mall so my girlfriend can guide me through
it.

I was on the FCC website already (was going to swallow the $80) and
realized all I had to do was send a check for the license. There's
not testing or training involved. Again, it doesn't make sense for
paying for an $80 license for a $20 product. Will having the license
teach me anything new about how to use the product? It seems more
like an added tax on a purchased product than ensuring users know how
to properly use the product.

Again, thank you for everyone's responses.

Tom Randy wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:06:13 -0800, Dolemite wrote:

I just bought two Uniden GMRS 2-way radios for $20. I plan to use them
while shopping in the mall and while out playing paintball. Do I
really
need to get an $80 5-year license from the FCC? What does the license
protect against?


A $7 to $10,000 fine. Just get the license.

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:12:37 -0800, Dolemite wrote:

Thanks alot for everyone's responses. I just had the handsets delivered
yesterday. Am I missing something here? Why would someone complain about
me using a hand held radio on occassion for brief periods of time? Its
not like I'm broadcasting a pirate radio station or purposly messing with
other communications. Are there accounts of the FCC going after private
users for consumer products? My intension is to use the radios while out
camping or playing paintball, maybe if I get lost in the mall so my
girlfriend can guide me through it.

I was on the FCC website already (was going to swallow the $80) and
realized all I had to do was send a check for the license. There's not
testing or training involved. Again, it doesn't make sense for paying for
an $80 license for a $20 product. Will having the license teach me
anything new about how to use the product? It seems more like an added
tax on a purchased product than ensuring users know how to properly use
the product.

Again, thank you for everyone's responses.

Tom Randy wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:06:13 -0800, Dolemite wrote:

I just bought two Uniden GMRS 2-way radios for $20. I plan to use
them while shopping in the mall and while out playing paintball. Do I
really need to get an $80 5-year license from the FCC? What does the
license protect against?


A $7 to $10,000 fine. Just get the license.


Look into FRS radio then. No license required.

On 2004-11-24, Dolemite wrote:
Thanks alot for everyone's responses. I just had the handsets
delivered yesterday. Am I missing something here? Why would someone
complain about me using a hand held radio on occassion for brief
periods of time? Its not like I'm broadcasting a pirate radio station
or purposly messing with other communications. Are there accounts of
the FCC going after private users for consumer products? My
intension is to use the radios while out camping or playing paintball,
maybe if I get lost in the mall so my girlfriend can guide me through
it.

If you are using a GMRS radio without a license, you are intentionally
interfering with other communications -- the legally licensed users of the
band. Remember GMRS frequencies are shared, so the licensed users have a
right to complain, and the FCC can go after you. If you want license free,
use FRS, MURS or cell phones.



I was on the FCC website already (was going to swallow the $80) and
realized all I had to do was send a check for the license. There's
not testing or training involved. Again, it doesn't make sense for
paying for an $80 license for a $20 product. Will having the license
teach me anything new about how to use the product? It seems more
like an added tax on a purchased product than ensuring users know how
to properly use the product.



Yes -- a $80 license for a $20 radio does seem a bit steep, but if you
realize that in the fairly recent past, these radios were not in the $20-$30
range, but more like $200+ each and more likely to be used my small
businesses than individuals, the fee sort of makes sense. As it stands now,
it is more of a money maker for the FCC, rather than a tax.



--
Alex / AB2RC
Linux is user friendly. However, it isn't idiot friendly.

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in
:

It would be better to return the GMRS radios and get FRS radios
instead. No license is required for the latter.

It doesn't make sense to risk a $10,000 fine. The FCC usually issues
the max fine allowed not the min. And yes they do go after people for
violating the regs even for consumer goods.

For GMRS, the license is merely a money raising scheme for the
government. It has nothing to do with technical expertise. But then
since one is not allowed to modify the radios in anyway or connect them
to other products, no technical expertise is required.


"Dolemite" wrote in message
om...
Thanks alot for everyone's responses. I just had the handsets
delivered yesterday. Am I missing something here? Why would someone
complain about me using a hand held radio on occassion for brief
periods of time? Its not like I'm broadcasting a pirate radio station
or purposly messing with other communications. Are there accounts of
the FCC going after private users for consumer products? My
intension is to use the radios while out camping or playing paintball,
maybe if I get lost in the mall so my girlfriend can guide me through
it.

I was on the FCC website already (was going to swallow the $80) and
realized all I had to do was send a check for the license. There's
not testing or training involved. Again, it doesn't make sense for
paying for an $80 license for a $20 product. Will having the license
teach me anything new about how to use the product? It seems more
like an added tax on a purchased product than ensuring users know how
to properly use the product.

Again, thank you for everyone's responses.

Tom Randy wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:06:13 -0800, Dolemite wrote:

I just bought two Uniden GMRS 2-way radios for $20. I plan to use
them while shopping in the mall and while out playing paintball.
Do I really need to get an $80 5-year license from the FCC? What
does the license protect against?


A $7 to $10,000 fine. Just get the license.



GMRS and FRS rules are something of a mess, IMHO.

You have to understand that the GMRS licence actually allows you to use a
higher powered mobile transceiver, but only on two channels that you
designate. There are actually repeaters on a lot of these channels, but
unlike in the amateur service, they are 'closed' and you have to pay to use
them (in ham radio in the US a repeater can either be 'closed' to outside
users or can raise money by membership of an association, but never both,
whereas in GMRS it is invariably both).

GMRS was later expanded so that the licence included the use of lower power
handhelds on 'interstitial' channels, i.e. channels that are half way
inbetween each of the repeater channels.

Then FRS was introduced at still a lower level of power on the GMRS
interstitial channels.

What has happened since is that stores are selling GMRS handhelds alonside
the FRS ones. This is either because they are lacking in scruples, or
because they are ignorant. Since a GMRS handheld works on all the FRS
channels but at higher power, the temptation to get one instead is rather
high.

The licence for GMRS is not just for the handhelds, but also for the
mobiles which run more power and can use repeaters, albeit at further cost.
AFAIK, the mobiles and the handhelds in GMRS can't even communicate with
oneanother as they don't use the same channels, which apears to be totally
SNAFU to me.

I am not a GMRS user, and there may be some errors in what I said above,
but I think that is substantially how it is. BTW, GMRS was originally part
of CB!

On 26 Nov 2004 04:53:05 GMT, Alun wrote:

You have to understand that the GMRS licence actually allows you to use a
higher powered mobile transceiver, but only on two channels that you
designate.

Not any more. The GMRS license now permits operation on any GMRS
channel, with restrictions only on specified channels above "Line A"
which is roughly 150 miles south of the Canadian border. Stations
above Line A which were licensed on those channels under the old
"2-channel" rule can continue to operate on them.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

Subject: Do I really need a license from the FCC
From: "Alex"
Date: 11/26/2004 7:19 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"Phil Kane" wrote in message
. net...
On 26 Nov 2004 04:53:05 GMT, Alun wrote:

Not any more. The GMRS license now permits operation on any GMRS
channel, with restrictions only on specified channels above "Line A"
which is roughly 150 miles south of the Canadian border. Stations
above Line A which were licensed on those channels under the old
"2-channel" rule can continue to operate on them.

Bull****. That is not true at all.

Dear anonymous pateral parent fornicating scumbag,

Wrong. It IS true.

Steve, K4YZ

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:19:10 -0500, Alex wrote:

Not any more. The GMRS license now permits operation on any GMRS
channel, with restrictions only on specified channels above "Line A"
which is roughly 150 miles south of the Canadian border. Stations
above Line A which were licensed on those channels under the old
"2-channel" rule can continue to operate on them.


Bull****. That is not true at all.

I quote from a GMRS license (KAE8605) issued (renewed) in June 2002:

Waivers/Conditions:

Effective 2/16/99 the GMRS rules have been amended and you may
operate on any of the primary or interstitial channels shown in
section 95.29. Exception: Licensees who operate north of Line
A and east of Line C may not operate on channels 462.650 MHz,
467.650 MHz, 462.700 MHz and 467 MHz unless your previous license
authorized such operations.

Read "Da Roolz" before running "Da Mout'..."

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote


Dear anonymous pateral parent fornicating scumbag,


Happy Thankgiving to you and your family too.

With fondest kind wishes,

de Hans, K0HB/4ID

(Dolemite) wrote in message . com...
I just bought two Uniden GMRS 2-way radios for $20.

Then it is a GMRS/FRS integral-antenna hybrid - not a "real GMRS
radio".

I plan to use
them while shopping in the mall and while out playing paintball. Do I
really need to get an $80 5-year license from the FCC?

If you don't use them on the 8 GMRS-only freqs, then no, you DON'T
NEED A LICENSE! Use them on the 14 FRS freqs, when Tx power is
limited to 500mW.

What does the
license protect against?

Look - it was a GIMMICK instituted by the radio manufacturers to allow
them to advertise their FRS radios as having more range (a few more
milliwatts of Tx power), and more channels (8). There is NO VALUE
ADDED in the gimmick, you get virtually no better range, and the extra
8 channels aren't worth the $80.

Its not like I'm given my own frequency.

Thanks for your help

- Stewart
For info on MURS - the BETTER license-free Public Radio Service:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MURS-OPEN

On 26 Nov 2004 19:02:39 GMT, Alun wrote:

The stores, however, market GMRS handelds as FRS handhelds with more range,
with the minor detail about needing a licence in the smallest possible
print.

That's how the MURS - non-licensed VHF low-power radios - came
about. They were originally license-required Business Radio
channels but E.F. Johnson and Motorola wholesaled their overrun
but under-selling "el cheapo" handhelds out to Costco and Wal-Mart
(remember the "color dot" and "jobcomm" radios ?) and the rest is
history.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

Subject: Do I really need a license from the FCC
From: "KØHB"
Date: 11/26/2004 4:02 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: et



"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote


Dear anonymous paternal parent fornicating scumbag,


Happy Thankgiving to you and your family too.

Gee...sorry, Hans...If I'd known it was you, I wuddn't have called you
"anonymous".

Steve, K4YZ

I would be surprised if Phil were to make an error on this kind of thing.

So, if I now have it right, a GMRS licencee can use all the FRS channels
(aka GMRS interstitial channels) plus the additional GMRS channels between
each pair of FRS channels, can use mobiles with more power than the GMRS
handhelds, and can use GMRS repeaters if they belong to them as paid up
members. IOW, they can do much more than a GMRS handheld provides.

The stores, however, market GMRS handelds as FRS handhelds with more range,
with the minor detail about needing a licence in the smallest possible
print.

That's exactly how they got me to buy these damn handsets. It allows
2 mile range on FRS channels and 6 miles range on GMRS.

I guess I'm most confused about how the FCC intends on policing these
airwaves. Do they record everychannel and maintain a massive
database? Or must I be caught using it with the handset designated on
the GMRS network.

Honestly, I the gov't were to supply me with a manuel, or some form of
education on getting more (proper) use out of the handset, I would not
complain about getting the license.

Again, I really want to thank everyone for their responses. Much
appreciated.

--alexis

Interesting FCC actions against unlicensed operators at URL:

http://www.arrl.org/news/enforcement...2003/0823.html

After reading it, I wonder what YOUR answer would be now to the Header
Question ??


--
ruido de icógnito

Thanks for the great site reference Ruido. After looking at the
letters I noticed a few things:

1 - all enforcement letters come in response to complaints made by
people who were affected by deliberate tampering and/or repeated
threats.

2 - The letters were in response to licensed operators, or those with a
license application pending.

3 - The FCC is a funny entity. I think for the first time ever, I
agree with Howard Stern. They offer $80 licenses for $20 products; no
training, no personalized frequency, no benefit included, except being
duped into paying a cleverly masked tax. If restricted use for these
frequencies is really an issue, the FCC should first approach the
manufactures of these products and ensure that proper visibility for
the license requirement is included on the packaging.

4 - I do not fall under any of the pretenses described on that page
that would qualify for enforcement by the FCC. My $20 handset will be
used on channels 8 - 13, which are approved for use without a license.
My intended use will clearly be within the 2 mile radius of the FRM
frequency.

Noise From Afar wrote:
Interesting FCC actions against unlicensed operators at URL:

http://www.arrl.org/news/enforcement...2003/0823.html

After reading it, I wonder what YOUR answer would be now to the
Header=20
Question ??
=20
=20
--=20
ruido de ic=F3gnito

Dear Alexis,
The FCC bases its investigations on repeated reciept of complaints against any
station, licensed or not. As I understand the FRS/GMRS band, GMRS licensed
users have primary band privledges where FRS limited to 500mW share certain
channels. If you really want to get into radio as a hobby investigate how to
get your ham radio license and you'll see there's a world of difference between
GMRS and Amateurs...anyway have fun.
N2PZK
Howie