bb wrote:

Steve says, """Lennie has a twisted sense of what "service" means."""

I'm not so sure about that.

"""In his mind, one brief tour in the Army was all the "service" one
need do."""

To be fair, it is far, far, far more than what the vast majority give.
They don't mind taking Pell Grants, guaranteed student loans, etc, and
complaining about the rising costs of education, but to put someone
else before themselves, "Forget it!" Then want their degree, their
401k, and to hell with anyone else or delaying their education for 4
years.


Well, I worked for 2 years at a defense contractor on
flight simulators for training air force pilots after
graduating college. Does that count?.....

Bob, sounds like a huge sacrifice having to put up with AF pilots.

bb wrote:
Bob, sounds like a huge sacrifice having to put up with AF pilots.


I didn't have to make *that* sacrifice. So I guess I
got off with easy duty..... Other people dealt with
the pilots, I just designed the equipment.

:-)

Subject: Mode/Band Use in 1961
From: robert casey
Date: 12/21/2004 3:28 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: et

bb wrote:

Steve says, """Lennie has a twisted sense of what "service" means."""

I'm not so sure about that.

"""In his mind, one brief tour in the Army was all the "service" one
need do."""

To be fair, it is far, far, far more than what the vast majority give.
They don't mind taking Pell Grants, guaranteed student loans, etc, and
complaining about the rising costs of education, but to put someone
else before themselves, "Forget it!" Then want their degree, their
401k, and to hell with anyone else or delaying their education for 4
years.


Well, I worked for 2 years at a defense contractor on
flight simulators for training air force pilots after
graduating college. Does that count?.....

I say it does!

73

Steve, K4YZ

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article . net, robert casey
writes:

No, *all* activity on radio was legal. Anything not specifically
outlawed is legal.

Yes and no. The LAW defines what is legal and what is illegal.
Without the LAW specifically covering it, it is neither legal nor
illegal.

I dunno what country you live in, Leonard. Here in the United States,
anything not forbidden by law is generally legal. As a case in point,
my maternal grandmother was fourteen in 1914. Her father was a
well-to-do local farmer. He bought her an automobile which she drove
all over this county and neighboring counties. In 1914, West Virginia
did not require licensing of automobile drivers. My grandmother's
driving was absolutely
legal.

Here's another. There is no zoning outside of municipalities here.
Since I've owned this property, I've put up two radio towers, a 16 x 30'
heated barn and a sauna building. They are all absolutely legal. No
one can tell me to take them down and no permits were required.

It appears that you know as little about what is legal as you do of
amateur radio.

The radio regulations came later.

Of course. 1912. But the implication of the "1961 Poll" is rather
obvious to tout CW (on-off keying). Especially considering the
source of that posting.

1961 was 43 years ago. Times change. Technology changes.

The times do change. I wasn't a radio amateur in 1961. I was a radio
amateur just two years later. Some things don't change much. You
weren't a radio amateur in 1961. You aren't a radio amateur now.

There was NO personal computer in 1961 except for a few with
lots and lots of money. Very few.

"Personal computers"? You're telling us that there were a very few PC's
in 1961? Unless you've redefined the term, I don't think so.

In 2003 one family in five in the
USA had some kind of Internet access...that makes it roughly
60 million folks a year ago. One out of three USA citizens has a
cell phone subscription now, or roughly 100 million of those.

So in 2003, four out of five families had no Internet access.

We can mumble all sorts of things about the PAST, but that is just
mumbling, having little relevance to the present and future.

It is evident that you have mumbled all sorts of things about the PAST.
You've mumbled some of 'em dozens of times. I take it that those things
have no relevance to the present and future.



Dave

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4YZ) writes:

I will agree it's more like "many", but not "vast majority"...Maybe it's
just the circles I run in, but MOST of the people I know are involved in SOME
form of community service, whether it's CAP, Amateur Radio groups, Red Cross,
EMS squads, etc. Church community action groups are a dime a dozen in this
area.

And for every person visibly involved, there are usually several who work
behind the scenes, or who are involved by contributions of money, supplies, or
facilities.

I think every able bodied (and that is far more liberal these
days,
all things considered...) should be REQUIRED to put in 2 years of mandatory
public service...

I don't think *anyone* should be *required* to serve in any capacity. That's
involuntary servitude AFAIC.

OTOH, there should be *opportunities* to serve that include nonmilitary
options.

If they choose the Armed Forces, fine...but imagine the
possibilites if we could focus some of that energy into the homeless issue,
enviromental problems, etc...

I agree 100%. Such service opportunities could be tied to funding higher
education, similar to veteran's benefits. Ideally, people in any service
capacity could earn credits and training that would permit them to pay for
almost any degree they are smart enough to earn.

There's a lot more to "service" than boot camp
and cammo green!

Well said!

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: Mode/Band Use in 1961
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 12/26/2004 8:41 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4YZ) writes:

I will agree it's more like "many", but not "vast majority"...Maybe it's
just the circles I run in, but MOST of the people I know are involved in
SOME
form of community service, whether it's CAP, Amateur Radio groups, Red
Cross,
EMS squads, etc. Church community action groups are a dime a dozen in this
area.

And for every person visibly involved, there are usually several who work
behind the scenes, or who are involved by contributions of money, supplies,
or
facilities.

I think every able bodied (and that is far more liberal these
days,
all things considered...) should be REQUIRED to put in 2 years of mandatory
public service...

I don't think *anyone* should be *required* to serve in any capacity. That's
involuntary servitude AFAIC.

Jim...Ain't it a kick in the butt that one of the most liberal societies in
the world, specifically Switzerland, has mandatory MILITARY training for all
able bodied men, yet no one considers it "involuntary servitude"...?!?!

OTOH, there should be *opportunities* to serve that include nonmilitary
options.

As I said....

If they choose the Armed Forces, fine...but imagine the
possibilites if we could focus some of that energy into the homeless issue,
enviromental problems, etc...

I agree 100%. Such service opportunities could be tied to funding higher
education, similar to veteran's benefits. Ideally, people in any service
capacity could earn credits and training that would permit them to pay for
almost any degree they are smart enough to earn.

There's a lot more to "service" than boot camp
and cammo green!

Well said!

Thanks.

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4YZ) writes:

I think every able bodied (and that is far more liberal these
days,
all things considered...) should be REQUIRED to put in 2 years of mandatory
public service...

I don't think *anyone* should be *required* to serve in any capacity. That's
involuntary servitude AFAIC.

Jim...Ain't it a kick in the butt that one of the most liberal societies
in
the world, specifically Switzerland, has mandatory MILITARY training for all
able bodied men, yet no one considers it "involuntary servitude"...?!?!

Interesting observation, but consider this:

- Is Switzerland really "one of the most liberal societies in the world"? I've
known a Swiss expatriate or two, and the reason given for leaving was that the
place was highly *conservative*. That's just hearsay, of course, and I've never
been there, but the clear impression I was given was that it was a place where
everybody was expected to behave in accordance with very strict and narrow
customs and traditions.

- If they're so liberal, why are only men required to serve?

- When was the last time anybody in their military actually had to fight? Do
they belong to NATO? How many have been KIA in the last, say, 50 years?

- Somebody does call it involuntary servitude: Me.

OTOH, there should be *opportunities* to serve that include nonmilitary
options.

As I said....

If they choose the Armed Forces, fine...but imagine the
possibilites if we could focus some of that energy into the homeless issue,
enviromental problems, etc...

I agree 100%. Such service opportunities could be tied to funding higher
education, similar to veteran's benefits. Ideally, people in any service
capacity could earn credits and training that would permit them to pay for
almost any degree they are smart enough to earn.

As long as they're voluntary.

There's a lot more to "service" than boot camp
and cammo green!

Well said!

Thanks.

You're welcome.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: Mode/Band Use in 1961
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 12/27/2004 6:30 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4YZ) writes:

I think every able bodied (and that is far more liberal these
days,
all things considered...) should be REQUIRED to put in 2 years of
mandatory
public service...

I don't think *anyone* should be *required* to serve in any capacity.
That's
involuntary servitude AFAIC.

Jim...Ain't it a kick in the butt that one of the most liberal societies
in
the world, specifically Switzerland, has mandatory MILITARY training for all
able bodied men, yet no one considers it "involuntary servitude"...?!?!

Interesting observation, but consider this:

- Is Switzerland really "one of the most liberal societies in the world"?
I've
known a Swiss expatriate or two, and the reason given for leaving was that
the
place was highly *conservative*. That's just hearsay, of course, and I've
never
been there, but the clear impression I was given was that it was a place
where
everybody was expected to behave in accordance with very strict and narrow
customs and traditions.

Ever hear of "Needle Park"...???

Steve, K4YZ

Steve Robeson K4YZ wrote:
Subject: Mode/Band Use in 1961
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 12/27/2004 6:30 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,

(Steve
Robeson K4YZ) writes:

I think every able bodied (and that is far more liberal these
days,
all things considered...) should be REQUIRED to put in 2 years of
mandatory
public service...

I don't think *anyone* should be *required* to serve in any
capacity.
That's
involuntary servitude AFAIC.

Jim...Ain't it a kick in the butt that one of the most liberal
societies
in
the world, specifically Switzerland, has mandatory MILITARY
training for all
able bodied men, yet no one considers it "involuntary
servitude"...?!?!

Interesting observation, but consider this:

- Is Switzerland really "one of the most liberal societies in the
world"?
I've
known a Swiss expatriate or two, and the reason given for leaving
was that
the
place was highly *conservative*. That's just hearsay, of course, and
I've
never
been there, but the clear impression I was given was that it was a
place
where
everybody was expected to behave in accordance with very strict and
narrow
customs and traditions.

Ever hear of "Needle Park"...???

No!

Where is it - in Switzerland?

I know that The Netherlands has very loose rules in certain districts
on things like recreational drugs, but I don't know about Switzerland.

--

I've been to Geneva plenty of times - Geneva New York, that is....
73 de Jim, N2EY