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#1
December 31st 04, 01:11 AM
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bb wrote:
N2EY says, "I'm not a VE, so I don't know how much it actually costs to conduct a session. But it seems to me..." Lessee. Doesn't serve his country in the armed forces. Doesn't serve his country as a paid "volunteer examiner." He must serve in other ways. But he always has an opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, Brian. We wouldn't have anywhere near as much fun if we could only give opinions on what we have personal experience in! 8^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
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#2
December 31st 04, 11:19 PM
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Mike said: """Everyone is entitled to an opinion, Brian.""" Reeaally??? """We wouldn't have anywhere near as much fun if we could only give opinions on what we have personal experience in! 8^)""" Then lotsa people on RRAP owe Len Anderson an apology. When I see those apologies, I'll stop pointing out that "true blue" Jim has never served his country in any capacity, yet has availed himself to the finest education and standard of living in a system where the freedom to do so were paid for with the blood of other people's sons. Happy New Year. |
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#3
January 1st 05, 02:48 AM
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"bb" wrote in message
oups.com... Mike said: """Everyone is entitled to an opinion, Brian.""" Reeaally??? """We wouldn't have anywhere near as much fun if we could only give opinions on what we have personal experience in! 8^)""" Then lotsa people on RRAP owe Len Anderson an apology. When I see those apologies, I'll stop pointing out that "true blue" Jim has never served his country in any capacity, yet has availed himself to the finest education and standard of living in a system where the freedom to do so were paid for with the blood of other people's sons. Happy New Year. So...wait just a minute. Are you saying that anyone who does not serve his country in any capacity (you'd have to define in any capacity, by the way) is not supposed to live in the United States? Because, in the United States we--regardless of *military* service to the country or not--DO avail ourselves of whatever is available, be that a good education, a good job, a good doctor, a good teacher, a good whatever. That the freedoms we enjoy are here, because of the military service of others, is greatly appreciated by most--there are those that are just plain idiots (and Jim is not one of them). And, to read your comment above without having paid attention to this thread, seems to say that anyone who doesn't meet your standards of service should just roll up and die? Surely I am mistaken in my interpretation of your comment, above. Kim W5TIT |
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#4
January 1st 05, 04:53 AM
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Kim wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... Mike said: """Everyone is entitled to an opinion, Brian.""" Reeaally??? """We wouldn't have anywhere near as much fun if we could only give opinions on what we have personal experience in! 8^)""" Then lotsa people on RRAP owe Len Anderson an apology. When I see those apologies, I'll stop pointing out that "true blue" Jim has never served his country in any capacity, yet has availed himself to the finest education and standard of living in a system where the freedom to do so were paid for with the blood of other people's sons. Happy New Year. So...wait just a minute. Are you saying that anyone who does not serve his country in any capacity (you'd have to define in any capacity, by the way) is not supposed to live in the United States? ***That isn't what I said, but do you argue that I'm not entitled to my own opinion?*** Because, in the United States Is Kim going to tell ---me--- about America??? Please allow me to assume the position. we--regardless of *military* service to the country or not--DO avail ourselves of whatever is available, be that a good education, a good job, a good doctor, a good teacher, a good whatever. Indeed many do. They take and they take, good whatever. Good everythig!!! Do you count yourself among those??? That the freedoms we enjoy are here, because of the military service of others, is greatly appreciated by most-- Huge, huge appreciations. Yellow magnet ribbons and all.... there are those that are just plain idiots (and Jim is not one of them). Why do you say that Jim is not? As a matteer of fact, I think Jim IS one of the idiots. And, to read your comment above without having paid attention to this thread, seems to say that anyone who doesn't meet your standards of service should just roll up and die? If you like you can read it that way. But that is not what I meant. Meanwhile, Len, who has served is supposed to roll up and die. Why is that??? Surely I am mistaken in my interpretation of your comment, above. Kim W5TIT To be -perfectly- clear, I think Jim is a welfare freeloader to avail hisself to the freedom to go to USA engineering schools, to avail hisself to a career in engineering, and then to comment on how bad life in America is without ***ever*** having done a Goddamned thing to risk even a split fingernail, all the while putting down Len Anderson who has contributed more to America than a single Jim/N2EY fingernail. Kim, you did ask. bb |
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#5
January 1st 05, 08:46 PM
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Because, in the United States Is Kim going to tell ---me--- about America??? Please allow me to assume the position. "Thank you sir, may I have another?!" |
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#6
January 2nd 05, 05:59 PM
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"bb" wrote in message
oups.com... Kim wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... Mike said: """Everyone is entitled to an opinion, Brian.""" Reeaally??? """We wouldn't have anywhere near as much fun if we could only give opinions on what we have personal experience in! 8^)""" Then lotsa people on RRAP owe Len Anderson an apology. When I see those apologies, I'll stop pointing out that "true blue" Jim has never served his country in any capacity, yet has availed himself to the finest education and standard of living in a system where the freedom to do so were paid for with the blood of other people's sons. Happy New Year. So...wait just a minute. Are you saying that anyone who does not serve his country in any capacity (you'd have to define in any capacity, by the way) is not supposed to live in the United States? ***That isn't what I said, but do you argue that I'm not entitled to my own opinion?*** Anyone is entitled to their opinion, and I deny no one that. However, in general, one cannot expect to express things without discourse on them. So, if you are taking offense that I would seek clarification for what you are saying, then to add or disagree with it--then you're offense is duly noted. Because, in the United States Is Kim going to tell ---me--- about America??? Please allow me to assume the position. You really do seem rather argumentative. And, in my opinion (may Kim tell you about Kim, even?) to assume an argumentative (if not rather childish) position (or, perhaps that is not what you meant by "position") leads me to believe that this reply-post is an exercise in futility. we--regardless of *military* service to the country or not--DO avail ourselves of whatever is available, be that a good education, a good job, a good doctor, a good teacher, a good whatever. Indeed many do. They take and they take, good whatever. Good everythig!!! Do you count yourself among those??? What in the world do you mean, "among those"? I seek good everything and anything. What do you want me to do? Strive to be a failure?! Your question is startling. That the freedoms we enjoy are here, because of the military service of others, is greatly appreciated by most-- Huge, huge appreciations. Yellow magnet ribbons and all.... Is your comment somewhat resentful of the ribbons, moreover the sentiment to support our troops?! Again, your startling. there are those that are just plain idiots (and Jim is not one of them). Why do you say that Jim is not? Oh, wait. Let me communicate back to you the same way you communicated to me: are you saying I am not entitled to my opinion? Hey, you opened that friggin' door, now close it. As a matteer of fact, I think Jim IS one of the idiots. Oh, and here, let me demonstrate how much more human I am capable of being than you: You are entitled to your opinion about Jim--or anyone else. BUT, I do not share your opinion. And, to read your comment above without having paid attention to this thread, seems to say that anyone who doesn't meet your standards of service should just roll up and die? If you like you can read it that way. Well, I don't "like" to think that anyone would believe like that. There are those who serve their nation through military means, there are those that support them in any and every way they can; there are those who remain here at home and help their families; there are those who go to their jobs every day to keep the inner-workings (and the reason for living in such a wonderful country, by the way) moving; there are those who serve their nation politically; and, then, there are those who sponge off any opportunity, until it all dries up. For anyone to have a scholarship in this country, they had to meet criteria--set forth by the governing body of that scholarship. For anyone to have availed themselves of any oppportunity to get as top-notch an education, or as top-notch an opportunity, as they could possibly get is for them to have participated in their own destiny, rather than letting things just happen to them. I don't think you're capable of understanding where it is I would go with this...so I'll not bother. But that is not what I meant. Meanwhile, Len, who has served is supposed to roll up and die. Why is that??? Surely I am mistaken in my interpretation of your comment, above. Kim W5TIT To be -perfectly- clear, I think Jim is a welfare freeloader to avail hisself to the freedom to go to USA engineering schools, to avail hisself to a career in engineering, and then to comment on how bad life in America is without ***ever*** having done a Goddamned thing to risk even a split fingernail, You know what? Screw your ever-loving split fingernail theory. You are one of those who seem (and note I've said "seem") to be of the opinion that only those who have served in the United States military are entitled to all the benefits of HAVING BEEN BORN in the USA. You see? That's all it takes for entitlement he being born in the USA, or becoming a US citizen (although, and here's a drift to another thread for you--if you can handle it: there are those who are NOT from this country who come over here with their little weenie green cards, suck up what they can from the United States, send it back home, and then go back home themselves...or go on to becoming a US citizen but are pretty darned slinky folks...in my opinion). all the while putting down Len Anderson who has contributed more to America than a single Jim/N2EY fingernail. Kim, you did ask. bb Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument initially that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled. You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same benefits from the United States as a person who has served in the military. You are entitled to believe that we don't all, in some form or other, contribute to the integrity, continuance, and strength of the United States--some of us by just damned getting up out of bed every morning and going to some dorky job where a damned good portion of our income goes to supporting the military, and the government, and the "other" people (you know...those who are not worthy)... So, yeah. I asked. And, I should have known better... Kim W5TIT |
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#7
January 5th 05, 12:17 AM
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Kim wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... Kim wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... Mike said: """Everyone is entitled to an opinion, Brian.""" Reeaally??? """We wouldn't have anywhere near as much fun if we could only give opinions on what we have personal experience in! 8^)""" Then lotsa people on RRAP owe Len Anderson an apology. I think Len owes many more apologies to other rrappers than he is owed.... When I see those apologies, I'll stop pointing out that "true blue" Jim Would that be me? has never served his country in any capacity, Not in *any* capacity? Obviously that's false. yet has availed himself to the finest education and standard of living in a system where the freedom to do so were paid for with the blood of other people's sons. Happy New Year. Can't be referring to me. "Finest education and standard of living"? So...wait just a minute. Are you saying that anyone who does not serve his country in any capacity (you'd have to define in any capacity, by the way)is not supposed to live in the United States? ***That isn't what I said, but do you argue that I'm not entitled to my own opinion?*** Anyone is entitled to their opinion, and I deny no one that. However, in general, one cannot expect to express things without discourse on them. So, if you are taking offense that I would seek clarification for what you are saying, then to add or disagree with it--then you're offense is duly noted. Well said, Kim, but also consider this: An opinion can be based on facts, or it can be based on falsehoods. It can be developed by sound reasoning, or by faulty logic. Also, the term "serve his country in any capacity" has to be defined clearly. Does it mean only uniformed military service? That would leave out a lot of people like police, firefighters, EMS. Because, in the United States Is Kim going to tell ---me--- about America??? Please allow me to assume the position. You really do seem rather argumentative. And, in my opinion (may Kim tell you about Kim, even?) to assume an argumentative (if not rather childish) position (or, perhaps that is not what you meant by "position") leads me to believe that this reply-post is an exercise in futility. Depends on your purpose, Kim. If you expect to convince "William" that he is mistaken about some things, it's probably futile. OTOH, if you want to point out his errors, express your own opinion and some facts, it's not futile at all. we--regardless of *military* service to the country or not--DO avail ourselves of whatever is available, be that a good education, a good job, a good doctor, a good teacher, a good whatever. Indeed many do. They take and they take, good whatever. Good everythig!!! Do you count yourself among those??? What in the world do you mean, "among those"? I seek good everything and anything. What do you want me to do? Strive to be a failure?! Your question is startling. There's a big difference in simply taking and paying one's way. That the freedoms we enjoy are here, because of the military service of others, is greatly appreciated by most-- Huge, huge appreciations. Yellow magnet ribbons and all.... Is your comment somewhat resentful of the ribbons, moreover the sentiment to support our troops?! Again, your startling. It should also be remembered that while military service is appreciated and praiseworthy, our country and its freedoms, wealth and way of life are not due solely to military service or military actions. Although firefighters are important, they don't build houses - they only protect them. there are those that are just plain idiots (and Jim is not one of them). If you mean me, you have my thanks, Kim. Why do you say that Jim is not? Oh, wait. Let me communicate back to you the same way you communicated to me: are you saying I am not entitled to my opinion? Hey, you opened that friggin' door, now close it. As a matteer of fact, I think Jim IS one of the idiots. Why? Oh, and here, let me demonstrate how much more human I am capable of being than you: You are entitled to your opinion about Jim--or anyone else. BUT, I do not share your opinion. And, to read your comment above without having paid attention to this thread, seems to say that anyone who doesn't meet your standards of service should just roll up and die? If you like you can read it that way. Well, I don't "like" to think that anyone would believe like that. There are those who serve their nation through military means, there are those that support them in any and every way they can; there are those who remain here at home and help their families; there are those who go to their jobs every day to keep the inner-workings (and the reason for living in such a wonderful country, by the way) moving; there are those who serve their nation politically; and, then, there are those who sponge off any opportunity, until it all dries up. Very well said, Kim. I agree 100%. For anyone to have a scholarship in this country, they had to meet criteria--set forth by the governing body of that scholarship. For anyone to have availed themselves of any oppportunity to get as top-notch an education, or as top-notch an opportunity, as they could possibly get is for them to have participated in their own destiny, rather than letting things just happen to them. I don't think you're capable of understanding where it is I would go with this...so I'll not bother. Well, I have some experience with scholarships, so let me add this: The scholarships I had for undergraduate education were based on academic achievement alone, as was my admission to the university I attended. I also had National Direct Student Loans, all of which were paid back on-time, with interest. I also worked full-time during school breaks and part-time during the school year (if you can call 35+ hours/wk "part time") in order to pay for things not covered by scholarship or loan. Graduate education funding came from two sources: my pocket and my employer, who would reimburse some of the cost of tuition *after* the course was successfully completed. Taking one graduate course at a time, the reimbursement worked out to about 40% of the tuition. Books, fees and other costs were on me. But that is not what I meant. Meanwhile, Len, who has served is supposed to roll up and die. When has anyone told Len to do that? It is Len who has told people here to "shut up", said their days are numbered, etc. Why is that??? Surely I am mistaken in my interpretation of your comment, above. Kim W5TIT To be -perfectly- clear, I think Jim is a welfare freeloader to avail hisself to the freedom to go to USA engineering schools, to avail hisself to a career in engineering, and then to comment on how bad life in America is without ***ever*** having done a Goddamned thing to risk even a split fingernail, Can't be talking about me, then. You know what? Screw your ever-loving split fingernail theory. You are one of those who seem (and note I've said "seem") to be of the opinion that only those who have served in the United States military are entitled to all the benefits of HAVING BEEN BORN in the USA. You see? That's all it takes for entitlement he being born in the USA, or becoming a US citizen (although, and here's a drift to another thread for you--if you can handle it: there are those who are NOT from this country who come over here with their little weenie green cards, suck up what they can from the United States, send it back home, and then go back home themselves...or go on to becoming a US citizen but are pretty darned slinky folks...in my opinion). Should only those with military service be allowed to express opinions? go to engineering school? vote? express opinions? all the while putting down Len Anderson who has contributed more to America than a single Jim/N2EY fingernail. How does anyone know what our relative contributions "to America" really are? Is uniformed military service the only thing that counts? Does it make everything Len writes here somehow OK? Kim, you did ask. bb Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument initially that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled. You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same benefits from the United States as a person who has served in the military. You are entitled to believe that we don't all, in some form or other, contribute to the integrity, continuance, and strength of the United States--some of us by just damned getting up out of bed every morning and going to some dorky job where a damned good portion of our income goes to supporting the military, and the government, and the "other" people (you know...those who are not worthy)... It seems a lot of us are "not worthy". What about police, firefighters, EMS and other people who have no military service? Or doctors, nurses, and other health-care people who risk infection from incurable diseases on the job? Or plain ol' working people, with no military service, who do dangerous but essential things to keep the lights on, the water flowing, etc.? The wires on the poles didn't put themselves up there, and when there's a problem, the workers don't get to wait for a nice day to fix them. So, yeah. I asked. And, I should have known better... Kim W5TIT I'll sum it up this way: Each and every person makes some sort of contribution to a community/society, and is also a burden of some sort too. Some people give more than they take, others take more than they give. To judge someone, you need to know the sum total of what they give and take, not just one item. The person calling others "welfare freeloaders" doesn't know what he's writing about. His opinion is not based on facts, and was developed with faulty logic. Of course he's entitled to any opinion he wants. Just as people are entitled to believe that the earth is flat and/or less than 7000 years old. Or that the moon landings were staged. Or any of many other things that are simply not true. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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#8
January 13th 05, 09:48 PM
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In article , "Kim"
writes: Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument initially that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled. Incorrect. Brian Burke was specifically talking about those in here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who continually try to put those who are against the morse code test. Those "PCTA extras" persist in claiming turf on who should direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism. PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup. You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same benefits from the United States as a person who has served in the military. You are off on your own fantasy there. Brian Burke served in the USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we are both proud of serving our country. What has grown into this overlong thread is a bunch of NON- servers who imply that they are "superior" in all respects to those of us who served but who are not favoring any morse code test for U.S. amateur radio licenses. Further, those same NON-servers imply/claim that Their knowledge of the military and government is "superior" to Brian and myself. It gets worse when an ex-serviceman (a PCTA extra) brags of his "seven hostile actions" yet cannot identify their where or when, AND has NO claimed experience in any specific radio communications, AND falsely accuses others of "dishonoring" their military unit members. That individual has NO displayed knowledge of military radio communications, networks, or regulations thereof (see the specious claim that "MARS IS amateur radio" instead of the Department of Defense). On top of that this individual continually uses Yiddish pejoratives as personal insults despite having no knowledge of Yiddish nor of central European languages. You are entitled to believe that we don't all, in some form or other, contribute to the integrity, continuance, and strength of the United States--some of us by just damned getting up out of bed every morning and going to some dorky job where a damned good portion of our income goes to supporting the military, and the government, and the "other" people (you know...those who are not worthy)... Well, you claim, solely by birthright, that you are "entitled" to MORE than those of us who spent years in the military, serving our country the best way we could? All because you did NOT serve yourself? That's a remarkable claim of "citizenship" which you wear. It is not an article that I wish to put on at any time. About the only thing that can be said about the extreme polarization in here is that the PCTA extras must certainly believe they are so damned "superior" in radio BECAUSE they took and passed a civilian amateur radio morse code test. Yes, that's the ticket. Moresemen are always "superior." They say so all the time. All others must bow down to them. They are royalty. But, they are still AMATEURS in radio. Try to remember that. Even when those PCTA extras expound on socio-political issues that don't even come close to U.S. amateur radio or its policy, they remain superior and aloof to all NCTA. So, yeah. I asked. And, I should have known better... Quite true. But, you have aligned yourself with the PCTA extra mob in here. As a friendly suggestion, wear some armor next time and the severity of newsgroup wounds won't cause so much apparent psychological trauma. |
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#9
January 14th 05, 12:30 PM
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#10
January 9th 05, 12:40 AM
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In article .com, "bb"
writes: Kim wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... Mike said: """Everyone is entitled to an opinion, Brian.""" Reeaally??? """We wouldn't have anywhere near as much fun if we could only give opinions on what we have personal experience in! 8^)""" Then lotsa people on RRAP owe Len Anderson an apology. When I see those apologies, I'll stop pointing out that "true blue" Jim has never served his country in any capacity, yet has availed himself to the finest education and standard of living in a system where the freedom to do so were paid for with the blood of other people's sons. Happy New Year. So...wait just a minute. Are you saying that anyone who does not serve his country in any capacity (you'd have to define in any capacity, by the way) is not supposed to live in the United States? ***That isn't what I said, but do you argue that I'm not entitled to my own opinion?*** Because, in the United States Is Kim going to tell ---me--- about America??? Yes, she are and has... :-) Please allow me to assume the position. That quaint service phrase may be lost on all the civilians... we--regardless of *military* service to the country or not--DO avail ourselves of whatever is available, be that a good education, a good job, a good doctor, a good teacher, a good whatever. Indeed many do. They take and they take, good whatever. Good everythig!!! Do you count yourself among those??? That the freedoms we enjoy are here, because of the military service of others, is greatly appreciated by most-- Huge, huge appreciations. Yellow magnet ribbons and all.... there are those that are just plain idiots (and Jim is not one of them). Why do you say that Jim is not? As a matteer of fact, I think Jim IS one of the idiots. Nah. Prolly has a good IQ and all that, but along the way he got mentally sidetracked on things in reality. He gots "turf disease," wherein hanging out daily in some group, being portentiously and pretensiously veddy correct in everything he say makes him a "guru"...well, at least in his own eyes. Inside, he gots a mean streak wherever someone don't think super-highly of his opinions...which are many and varied about nearly everything. And, to read your comment above without having paid attention to this thread, seems to say that anyone who doesn't meet your standards of service should just roll up and die? If you like you can read it that way. But that is not what I meant. Meanwhile, Len, who has served is supposed to roll up and die. The correct "supposeds" are "have a stroke" or "have a heart attack." The first one was wished by a claimed "health professional." Must have been one of those who took a hypocrite's oath instead of a Hippocratic one. Why is that??? Simple reason: In this venue, anyone who doesn't love, honor, and cherish morse code testing, can just go off and die. :-) Surely I am mistaken in my interpretation of your comment, above. Kim W5TIT To be -perfectly- clear, I think Jim is a welfare freeloader to avail hisself to the freedom to go to USA engineering schools, to avail hisself to a career in engineering, and then to comment on how bad life in America is without ***ever*** having done a Goddamned thing to risk even a split fingernail, all the while putting down Len Anderson who has contributed more to America than a single Jim/N2EY fingernail. Kim, you did ask. That may be a bit rough, but it is cutting close. Folkses who is full o' themselves are most especially Very Important Peoples that should never ever be harmed, lest such harm hurt their divine, noble, righteous thoughts within. Their country owes THEM a living and they need do nothing for it other than act anal-retentively lawful...and superior to others not as "gifted" as they be. You have to understand something of their motivations to see where they are coming from (mostly the fantasies of their own imaginations). If you served with the USAF in some distant land, they think that you HAD to ask the FCC for legal counsel FIRST before operating any radio there... and then they get ****ed at you for obeying your real orders from the USAF instead of them. shrug Those fine superiors in here are all, naturally, morsemen tested at high rates code cognition before the federal government. They are superior supermen and anything they say is the Absolute Truth. No one else can deny that Absolute lest they be buried in a veritable avalanche of smug superiorness of hate mail. They will LIE, cheat, maybe even steal, but whatever they do is Terribly Correct, Righteous. They are the PCTA extras. That should say it all. |
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