In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"
writes:


Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You are
entitled.

Incorrect. Brian Burke

N0IMD

was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code test.

"continually try to put those who are against the morse code test"? Put them
where?

Those "PCTA extras"

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't necessarily
unique.

persist in claiming turf on who should
direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all
federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an
amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are
somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism.

Where, specifically, has this been claimed? By whom?

Perhaps you and N0IMD have very thin skins...;-)

PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and
are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup.

Really? You're the only person here I've seen tell another to "shut the hell
up".

You imply your own superiority in all things here ;-) ;-)

You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person
walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same benefits
from the United States as a person who has served in the military.

You're also entitled to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Or that the
earth is flat.

Or that your lifelong avoidance of Morse Code has some relevance to amateur
radio policy.

You are off on your own fantasy there.

Naw, Len, she hit the nail really square.

Brian Burke served in the
USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and
specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we are
both proud of serving our country.

As you should be. Others feel the same way about *their* military service, too.


But is the military the only way a citizen can serve our country? Or are there
other ways? Does it have to be "overseas"?

What has grown into this overlong thread is a bunch of NON-
servers who imply that they are "superior" in all respects to those
of us who served but who are not favoring any morse code test for
U.S. amateur radio licenses. Further, those same NON-servers
imply/claim that Their knowledge of the military and government
is "superior" to Brian and myself.

"Superior in all respects"? Who has claimed that? Where have they claimed it?

Seems to me you just take any opposition to your opinions as an insult.

It gets worse when an ex-serviceman (a PCTA extra)

Who?

brags of
his "seven hostile actions" yet cannot identify their where or
when,

N0IMD won't give any details about his /T5 operation, yet you
accept it as fact. "Leo" won't even identify himself, but you have
no qualms that his claims are valid.

Yet you question a fellow serviceman's military experience. Odd.

AND has NO claimed experience in any specific radio
communications, AND falsely accuses others of "dishonoring"
their military unit members.

Maybe he's just pulling your leg, Len. ;-)

You know, the way you "pull his leg" by calling him "nursie", "murine" and many
other names, and referring to him in the wrong gender.

That individual has NO displayed
knowledge of military radio communications, networks, or
regulations thereof (see the specious claim that "MARS
IS amateur radio" instead of the Department of Defense).

Is he entitled to that opinion, Len? Or are only opinions you agree with
allowed to exist?

On top of that this individual continually uses Yiddish pejoratives
as personal insults despite having no knowledge of Yiddish nor
of central European languages.

Perhaps he's just using sarcasm to make a point, Len ;-) ;-)

Did you know that Colin Powell is fluent in Yiddish? It's a fact.

Len, you go on and on about Morse Code and Morse Code tests even though
you have no demonstrated practical knowledge of either. ;-) ;-) ;-)

You are
entitled to believe that we don't all, in some form or other, contribute to
the integrity, continuance, and strength of the United States--some of us by
just damned getting up out of bed every morning and going to some dorky job
where a damned good portion of our income goes to supporting the military,
and the government, and the "other" people (you know...those who are not
worthy)...

Little sarcasm there, in case you missed it, Len. But Kim got it right - again.

Well, you claim, solely by birthright, that you are "entitled" to MORE
than those of us who spent years in the military, serving our country
the best way we could? All because you did NOT serve yourself?

More? Where do you get that, Len? Kim just is saying that everyone contributes.
Don't you agree?

Or don't "non-servers" count for anything at all? Perhaps you would like to
call them "unpersons".

That's a remarkable claim of "citizenship" which you wear. It is not
an article that I wish to put on at any time.

I see. You think some citizens are more equal than others. Oink, oink ;-) ;-)
;-)

W4NTI served our country in Southeast Asia. In the military, during a war. Yet
you threatened him with your "ounces of pressure" post.

K8MN served our country in Southeast Asia. In the military, during a war. He
also had a long career serving our country in the State Department. Yet you
repeatedly insult him because of his last name, denied his knowledge of State
Department communications, and have told him to "shut the hell up" in your
classic "feldwebel" post.

KH6O served our country in the Coast Guard. ( I don't know if he's still
active-duty). Yet you don't consider maritime communications on the largest
ocean of the planet to be "big time radio". He's also a teacher at the
university level. Yet you repeatedly insult him and his service, most clearly
in the your classic "sphincter" post.

There's a lot more...

About the only thing that can be said about the extreme polarization
in here is that the PCTA extras must certainly believe they are so
damned "superior" in radio BECAUSE they took and passed a
civilian amateur radio morse code test.

They're superior to you in Morse Code skill, Len. And in amateur radio
experience. The rest of the difference is a matter of opinion. I'm superior to
you in many ways. You are superior to me in some other ways (tapdancing around
the facts, for example).

Deal with it, pink boy ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

However, you've shown that no matter what military service, education,
employment or other accomplishment someone has, you'll make fun of them and
their accomplishments if they dare to disagree with you. You'll even say they
are lying about the accomplishments, without any evidence.

Of course you're not a stickler for evidence anyway, as shown by your demanding
an age limit of 14 years for amateur radio licenses, without any evidence that
the licensing of young people causes problems. And without any demonstrated
practical experience with young people ("teeners", you call them?)

So there's no point in anyone mentioning their education, military/government
service, employment, etc., around you, because you'll just insult it and say
it's inferior.

Yes, that's the ticket.
Moresemen are always "superior." They say so all the time.

"Moresemen"? You mean "Morris men"?

All
others must bow down to them. They are royalty.

Or maybe they're using sarcasm and leg-pulling on you, Len. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Can't you deal with a little strong opposition? ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

But, they are still AMATEURS in radio. Try to remember that.

And you're not one of them. Your Extra is still in its box.

Even when those PCTA extras expound on socio-political issues
that don't even come close to U.S. amateur radio or its policy,
they remain superior and aloof to all NCTA.

Tug, tug! ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Here's a clue, Len: You're not the newsgroup moderator.

So, yeah. I asked. And, I should have known better...

Quite true.

But, you have aligned yourself with the PCTA extra mob in here.
As a friendly suggestion, wear some armor next time and the
severity of newsgroup wounds won't cause so much apparent
psychological trauma.

Somehow I think Kim's a bit tougher than you are, Len. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-)

Oh, btw - your buddy Mike Deignan is *against* code testing. At least that's
what he told FCC back in 1999.

On 14 Jan 2005 11:30:40 GMT, PAMNO (N2EY) wrote:

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"
writes:

snip

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't necessarily
unique.

Such as you do with Kim's, which I see has been (as always) removed
from this thread......

People who live in glass houses.....

remainder of blather snipped

73, Leo

Leo wrote:
On 14 Jan 2005 11:30:40 GMT, PAMNO (N2EY) wrote:

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"
writes:

snip

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't
necessarily
unique.

Such as you do with Kim's, which I see has been (as always) removed
from this thread......

Nope:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...c?dmode=source

People who live in glass houses.....

See the post above.

73 de Jim, N2EY

On 14 Jan 2005 04:53:33 -0800, wrote:


Leo wrote:
On 14 Jan 2005 11:30:40 GMT, PAMNO (N2EY) wrote:

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"
writes:

snip

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't
necessarily
unique.

Such as you do with Kim's, which I see has been (as always) removed
from this thread......

Nope:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...c?dmode=source

People who live in glass houses.....

See the post above.

My apologies - you are correct, it's there!

73 de Jim, N2EY

73, Leo

Leo wrote:
On 14 Jan 2005 04:53:33 -0800, wrote:


Leo wrote:
On 14 Jan 2005 11:30:40 GMT, PAMNO (N2EY) wrote:

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

In article ,
"Kim"
writes:

snip

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names
aren't
necessarily
unique.

Such as you do with Kim's, which I see has been (as always)
removed
from this thread......

Nope:


http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...c?dmode=source

People who live in glass houses.....

See the post above.

My apologies - you are correct, it's there!

Spoken like a gentleman, sir!

No problem, Leo. Kim's call appears only once or twice in that long
post. Easy to miss.
73 de Jim, N2EY



73 de Jim, N2EY

73, Leo

N2EY wrote:
In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:


In article , "Kim"
writes:



Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You are
entitled.

Incorrect. Brian Burke


N0IMD


was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code test.


"continually try to put those who are against the morse code test"? Put them
where?

Those "PCTA extras"


Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't necessarily
unique.

Much easier to not put a name or face on the evil "PCTA Extras". Makes
it a lot easier to demonize them. Fact is, of the Extras in here who are
PCTA, there are a lot of different personalities, from abrasive to mild
mannered.

One cannot stereotype a spectrum easily.



persist in claiming turf on who should
direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all
federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an
amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are
somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism.


Where, specifically, has this been claimed? By whom?

Perhaps you and N0IMD have very thin skins...;-)

PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and
are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup.


Really? You're the only person here I've seen tell another to "shut the hell
up".


Let us not forget the recent offers for one poster to engage in
fornication with himself, and for another to stick something up his "I/O
port". All in response to civil posts.



You imply your own superiority in all things here ;-) ;-)


You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person
walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same benefits

from the United States as a person who has served in the military.


You're also entitled to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Or that the
earth is flat.

Or that your lifelong avoidance of Morse Code has some relevance to amateur
radio policy.


You are off on your own fantasy there.


Naw, Len, she hit the nail really square.


Brian Burke served in the
USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and
specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we are
both proud of serving our country.


As you should be. Others feel the same way about *their* military service, too.


But is the military the only way a citizen can serve our country? Or are there
other ways? Does it have to be "overseas"?

There are other, direct ways of doing this.


What has grown into this overlong thread is a bunch of NON-
servers who imply that they are "superior" in all respects to those
of us who served but who are not favoring any morse code test for
U.S. amateur radio licenses. Further, those same NON-servers
imply/claim that Their knowledge of the military and government
is "superior" to Brian and myself.


"Superior in all respects"? Who has claimed that? Where have they claimed it?

Seems to me you just take any opposition to your opinions as an insult.


It gets worse when an ex-serviceman (a PCTA extra)


Who?


brags of
his "seven hostile actions" yet cannot identify their where or
when,


BTW, except in the case of a dishonorable discharge, there are no
ex-Marines. just ones who are retired or not on active duty.



N0IMD won't give any details about his /T5 operation, yet you
accept it as fact. "Leo" won't even identify himself, but you have
no qualms that his claims are valid.



Yet you question a fellow serviceman's military experience. Odd.


Depends on which side of the Morse code issue they are on. In fact,
considering the number of insults hurled at various people who have done
Military service and happen to be PCTA, I would have to conclude that
Len does *not*' show respect for military service.


AND has NO claimed experience in any specific radio
communications, AND falsely accuses others of "dishonoring"
their military unit members.


Maybe he's just pulling your leg, Len. ;-)

You know, the way you "pull his leg" by calling him "nursie", "murine" and many
other names, and referring to him in the wrong gender.


That individual has NO displayed
knowledge of military radio communications, networks, or
regulations thereof (see the specious claim that "MARS
IS amateur radio" instead of the Department of Defense).


Is he entitled to that opinion, Len? Or are only opinions you agree with
allowed to exist?

We all know that answer.


On top of that this individual continually uses Yiddish pejoratives
as personal insults despite having no knowledge of Yiddish nor
of central European languages.


Perhaps he's just using sarcasm to make a point, Len ;-) ;-)

Did you know that Colin Powell is fluent in Yiddish? It's a fact.

Len, you go on and on about Morse Code and Morse Code tests even though
you have no demonstrated practical knowledge of either. ;-) ;-) ;-)


As in all things, lack of experience makes it easier to form a strong
opinion.


You are
entitled to believe that we don't all, in some form or other, contribute to
the integrity, continuance, and strength of the United States--some of us by
just damned getting up out of bed every morning and going to some dorky job
where a damned good portion of our income goes to supporting the military,
and the government, and the "other" people (you know...those who are not
worthy)...


Little sarcasm there, in case you missed it, Len. But Kim got it right - again.

Well, you claim, solely by birthright, that you are "entitled" to MORE
than those of us who spent years in the military, serving our country
the best way we could? All because you did NOT serve yourself?


More? Where do you get that, Len? Kim just is saying that everyone contributes.
Don't you agree?

Or don't "non-servers" count for anything at all? Perhaps you would like to
call them "unpersons".

That's a remarkable claim of "citizenship" which you wear. It is not
an article that I wish to put on at any time.


I see. You think some citizens are more equal than others. Oink, oink ;-) ;-)
;-)

W4NTI served our country in Southeast Asia. In the military, during a war. Yet
you threatened him with your "ounces of pressure" post.

K8MN served our country in Southeast Asia. In the military, during a war. He
also had a long career serving our country in the State Department. Yet you
repeatedly insult him because of his last name, denied his knowledge of State
Department communications, and have told him to "shut the hell up" in your
classic "feldwebel" post.

KH6O served our country in the Coast Guard. ( I don't know if he's still
active-duty). Yet you don't consider maritime communications on the largest
ocean of the planet to be "big time radio". He's also a teacher at the
university level. Yet you repeatedly insult him and his service, most clearly
in the your classic "sphincter" post.

Speaking of the Coast Guard, I wonder how much guts it takes to go out
in one of those rollers and spend a little quality time upside down,
while trying to rescue someone. That has to be an *intense* Sphincter
pucker moment!

There's a lot more...

About the only thing that can be said about the extreme polarization
in here is that the PCTA extras must certainly believe they are so
damned "superior" in radio BECAUSE they took and passed a
civilian amateur radio morse code test.


They're superior to you in Morse Code skill, Len. And in amateur radio
experience. The rest of the difference is a matter of opinion. I'm superior to
you in many ways. You are superior to me in some other ways (tapdancing around
the facts, for example).

Deal with it, pink boy ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

However, you've shown that no matter what military service, education,
employment or other accomplishment someone has, you'll make fun of them and
their accomplishments if they dare to disagree with you. You'll even say they
are lying about the accomplishments, without any evidence.

Of course you're not a stickler for evidence anyway, as shown by your demanding
an age limit of 14 years for amateur radio licenses, without any evidence that
the licensing of young people causes problems. And without any demonstrated
practical experience with young people ("teeners", you call them?)

So there's no point in anyone mentioning their education, military/government
service, employment, etc., around you, because you'll just insult it and say
it's inferior.


Yes, that's the ticket.
Moresemen are always "superior." They say so all the time.


"Moresemen"? You mean "Morris men"?


All
others must bow down to them. They are royalty.


Or maybe they're using sarcasm and leg-pulling on you, Len. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Can't you deal with a little strong opposition? ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

I think we already knew that. If a person shows no ability to engage in
debate without remaining civil, then they can't handle any opposition at
all.


But, they are still AMATEURS in radio. Try to remember that.


And you're not one of them. Your Extra is still in its box.

Even when those PCTA extras expound on socio-political issues
that don't even come close to U.S. amateur radio or its policy,
they remain superior and aloof to all NCTA.


Tug, tug! ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Here's a clue, Len: You're not the newsgroup moderator.


So, yeah. I asked. And, I should have known better...


Quite true.


But, you have aligned yourself with the PCTA extra mob in here.
As a friendly suggestion, wear some armor next time and the
severity of newsgroup wounds won't cause so much apparent
psychological trauma.


Somehow I think Kim's a bit tougher than you are, Len. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-)

psychological trauma?


Oh, btw - your buddy Mike Deignan is *against* code testing. At least that's
what he told FCC back in 1999.



- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
N2EY wrote:
In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"
writes:

Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument
initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You
are
entitled.
Incorrect. Brian Burke

N0IMD

was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code test.

"continually try to put those who are against the morse code test"?
Put them
where?

Those "PCTA extras"

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't
necessarily
unique.

Much easier to not put a name or face on the evil "PCTA Extras".
Makes
it a lot easier to demonize them.

Very true, Mike.

But I think Len just doesn't like to use our callsigns.

Fact is, of the Extras in here who are
PCTA, there are a lot of different personalities, from abrasive to
mild
mannered.

Same goes for NCTAs.

For example, I've had many detailed discussions with K2UNK, yet there's
never a harsh word, even though we're poles apart on most amateur radio
policy issues. Heck, K2UNK is a *director* of NCI!

One cannot stereotype a spectrum easily.

That's why Len denies there is a spectrum. All are blamed for what
someone
supposedly did decades ago.

persist in claiming turf on who should
direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all
federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an
amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are
somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism.

Where, specifically, has this been claimed? By whom?

Perhaps you and N0IMD have very thin skins...;-)

PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and
are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup.

Really? You're the only person here I've seen tell another to "shut
the hell
up".

Let us not forget the recent offers for one poster to engage in
fornication with himself,

That was me. And it wasn't an offer, it was a command. ;-)

and for another to stick something up his "I/O
port". All in response to civil posts.

For Len, "civil" equals "agrees with Len". All else is uncivil.

You imply your own superiority in all things here ;-) ;-)

You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person
walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same
benefits
from the United States as a person who has served in the military.

You're also entitled to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Or
that the
earth is flat.

Or that your lifelong avoidance of Morse Code has some relevance to
amateur
radio policy.

You are off on your own fantasy there.

Naw, Len, she hit the nail really square.

Brian Burke served in the
USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and
specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we
are
both proud of serving our country.

As you should be. Others feel the same way about *their* military
service, too.

But is the military the only way a citizen can serve our country?
Or are there
other ways? Does it have to be "overseas"?

There are other, direct ways of doing this.

What about indirect ways?

What has grown into this overlong thread is a bunch of NON-
servers who imply that they are "superior" in all respects to
those
of us who served but who are not favoring any morse code test for
U.S. amateur radio licenses. Further, those same NON-servers
imply/claim that Their knowledge of the military and government
is "superior" to Brian and myself.

"Superior in all respects"? Who has claimed that? Where have they
claimed it?

Seems to me you just take any opposition to your opinions as an
insult.

It gets worse when an ex-serviceman (a PCTA extra)

Who?

brags of
his "seven hostile actions" yet cannot identify their where or
when,

BTW, except in the case of a dishonorable discharge, there are no
ex-Marines. just ones who are retired or not on active duty.

I've heard that.

N0IMD won't give any details about his /T5 operation, yet you
accept it as fact. "Leo" won't even identify himself, but you have
no qualms that his claims are valid.

Yet you question a fellow serviceman's military experience. Odd.

Depends on which side of the Morse code issue they are on.

Exactly. Like education, employment, and other accomplishments, they
drop out of the equation.

In fact,
considering the number of insults hurled at various people who have
done
Military service and happen to be PCTA, I would have to conclude that

Len does *not*' show respect for military service.

Unless the person is NCTA. And sometimes not even then.

AND has NO claimed experience in any specific radio
communications,

This is not true. The person being described here, if it's K4YZ,
has lots of "claimed experience in specific radio communications".
For example, I've worked him on 40 meters.

AND falsely accuses others of "dishonoring"
their military unit members.

Maybe he's just pulling your leg, Len. ;-)

You know, the way you "pull his leg" by calling him "nursie",
"murine" and many
other names, and referring to him in the wrong gender.

That individual has NO displayed
knowledge of military radio communications, networks, or
regulations thereof (see the specious claim that "MARS
IS amateur radio" instead of the Department of Defense).

Is he entitled to that opinion, Len? Or are only opinions you agree
with
allowed to exist?

We all know that answer.

Will Len answer that simple question with a direct answer?

On top of that this individual continually uses Yiddish
pejoratives
as personal insults despite having no knowledge of Yiddish nor
of central European languages.

Perhaps he's just using sarcasm to make a point, Len ;-) ;-)

Did you know that Colin Powell is fluent in Yiddish? It's a fact.

Len, you go on and on about Morse Code and Morse Code tests even
though
you have no demonstrated practical knowledge of either. ;-) ;-) ;-)

As in all things, lack of experience makes it easier to form a strong

opinion.

Like whether people under 14 are capable of being responsible amateur
radio
operators.

You are
entitled to believe that we don't all, in some form or other,
contribute to
the integrity, continuance, and strength of the United
States--some of us by
just damned getting up out of bed every morning and going to some
dorky job
where a damned good portion of our income goes to supporting the
military,
and the government, and the "other" people (you know...those who
are not
worthy)...

Little sarcasm there, in case you missed it, Len. But Kim got it
right - again.

Well, you claim, solely by birthright, that you are "entitled" to
MORE
than those of us who spent years in the military, serving our
country
the best way we could? All because you did NOT serve yourself?

More? Where do you get that, Len? Kim just is saying that everyone
contributes.
Don't you agree?

Or don't "non-servers" count for anything at all? Perhaps you would
like to
call them "unpersons".

That's a remarkable claim of "citizenship" which you wear. It is
not
an article that I wish to put on at any time.

I see. You think some citizens are more equal than others. Oink,
oink ;-) ;-)
;-)

W4NTI served our country in Southeast Asia. In the military, during
a war. Yet
you threatened him with your "ounces of pressure" post.

K8MN served our country in Southeast Asia. In the military, during
a war. He
also had a long career serving our country in the State Department.
Yet you
repeatedly insult him because of his last name, denied his
knowledge of State
Department communications, and have told him to "shut the hell up"
in your
classic "feldwebel" post.

Of the people named in this post, K8MN has probably the most experience
in military and government service. Yet Len shows no respect for him.

I recall a series of postings some years back where K8MN described
using Morse Code to "synchronize" (as in coordinate) RTTY operations
for the State Department - as a State Department staffer. Len simply
refused to accept that such things were done in the time frame K8MN
describes. Never mind that K8MN was there and Len wasn't.

KH6O served our country in the Coast Guard. ( I don't know if he's
still
active-duty). Yet you don't consider maritime communications on the
largest
ocean of the planet to be "big time radio". He's also a teacher at
the
university level. Yet you repeatedly insult him and his service,
most clearly
in the your classic "sphincter" post.

Speaking of the Coast Guard, I wonder how much guts it takes to go
out
in one of those rollers and spend a little quality time upside down,
while trying to rescue someone. That has to be an *intense* Sphincter

pucker moment!

One of my favorite images of the USCG shows a stormy coastline in the
Pacific Northwest. Vessels of all descriptions are heading for the
harbor as fast as they can - except for the USCG ones, which are headed
out into the storm the others are fleeing.

Kinda says it all.

Mike, if you haven't read KH6O's writings about his experiences, do a
search and have yourself a treat.

There's a lot more...

About the only thing that can be said about the extreme
polarization
in here is that the PCTA extras must certainly believe they are
so
damned "superior" in radio BECAUSE they took and passed a
civilian amateur radio morse code test.

They're superior to you in Morse Code skill, Len. And in amateur
radio
experience. The rest of the difference is a matter of opinion. I'm
superior to
you in many ways. You are superior to me in some other ways
(tapdancing around
the facts, for example).

Deal with it, pink boy ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

However, you've shown that no matter what military service,
education,
employment or other accomplishment someone has, you'll make fun of
them and
their accomplishments if they dare to disagree with you. You'll
even say they
are lying about the accomplishments, without any evidence.

Of course you're not a stickler for evidence anyway, as shown by
your demanding
an age limit of 14 years for amateur radio licenses, without any
evidence that
the licensing of young people causes problems. And without any
demonstrated
practical experience with young people ("teeners", you call them?)

So there's no point in anyone mentioning their education,
military/government
service, employment, etc., around you, because you'll just insult
it and say
it's inferior.

Yes, that's the ticket.
Moresemen are always "superior." They say so all the time.

"Moresemen"? You mean "Morris men"?

All
others must bow down to them. They are royalty.

Or maybe they're using sarcasm and leg-pulling on you, Len. ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-)

Can't you deal with a little strong opposition? ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

I think we already knew that. If a person shows no ability to engage
in
debate without remaining civil, then they can't handle any opposition
at
all.

Actually, Len doesn't even try to engage in debate here. That's why I
don't take him seriously.

But, they are still AMATEURS in radio. Try to remember that.

And you're not one of them. Your Extra is still in its box.

Even when those PCTA extras expound on socio-political issues
that don't even come close to U.S. amateur radio or its policy,
they remain superior and aloof to all NCTA.

Tug, tug! ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Here's a clue, Len: You're not the newsgroup moderator.

So, yeah. I asked. And, I should have known better...

Quite true.

But, you have aligned yourself with the PCTA extra mob in here.
As a friendly suggestion, wear some armor next time and the
severity of newsgroup wounds won't cause so much apparent
psychological trauma.

Somehow I think Kim's a bit tougher than you are, Len. ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-)

psychological trauma?

I guess Len is traumatized whenever someone disagrees with him....;0 ;0


Oh, btw - your buddy Mike Deignan is *against* code testing. At
least that's
what he told FCC back in 1999.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,



(Len Over 21) writes:


In article , "Kim"
writes:


Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument
initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You
are entitled.

Incorrect. Brian Burke

N0IMD


was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code test.


"continually try to put those who are against the morse code test"?

Put them where?


Those "PCTA extras"


Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't

necessarily

unique.


Much easier to not put a name or face on the evil "PCTA Extras".
Makes it a lot easier to demonize them.


Very true, Mike.

But I think Len just doesn't like to use our callsigns.

Because I'm a PCTA Extra,(KB3EIA) and so are you,(N2EY) and so is
Dave,(K8MN) and Steve,(K4YZ) and Dan (W4NTI).

Now if THAT isn't a diverse group, I don't know what is. TRying to put
us all in one "Olde tyme Hammes" group is doomed to failure.




Fact is, of the Extras in here who are
PCTA, there are a lot of different personalities, from abrasive to
mild mannered.


Same goes for NCTAs.

For example, I've had many detailed discussions with K2UNK, yet there's
never a harsh word, even though we're poles apart on most amateur radio
policy issues. Heck, K2UNK is a *director* of NCI!

Yes, same here, although I believe I got him pretty irratated a few
times. THat's okay, because I'm an irratating person some times! 8^)


One cannot stereotype a spectrum easily.


That's why Len denies there is a spectrum. All are blamed for what
someone supposedly did decades ago.

Perhaps there was some sort of prenatal terror induced by a Ham?

persist in claiming turf on who should
direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all
federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an
amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are
somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism.


Where, specifically, has this been claimed? By whom?


Perhaps you and N0IMD have very thin skins...;-)


PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and
are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup.


Really? You're the only person here I've seen tell another to "shut
the hell up".


Let us not forget the recent offers for one poster to engage in
fornication with himself,


That was me. And it wasn't an offer, it was a command. ;-)

Isn't it okay to refuse an immoral command?? hehe ;^)

and for another to stick something up his "I/O
port". All in response to civil posts.


For Len, "civil" equals "agrees with Len". All else is uncivil.

My lack of civility must be distressing indeed.

You imply your own superiority in all things here ;-) ;-)

You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person
walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same
benefits
from the United States as a person who has served in the military.


You're also entitled to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Or
that the earth is flat.


Or that your lifelong avoidance of Morse Code has some relevance to
amateur radio policy.


You are off on your own fantasy there.


Naw, Len, she hit the nail really square.


Brian Burke served in the
USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and
specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we
are both proud of serving our country.


As you should be. Others feel the same way about *their* military
service, too.

But is the military the only way a citizen can serve our country?

Or are there other ways? Does it have to be "overseas"?


There are other, direct ways of doing this.

What about indirect ways?

Sure, but I'm surprised that these good folk can't figure out other
direct ways that are not specifically serving in the military.

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,



(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"
writes:

Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument
initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You
are entitled.

Incorrect. Brian Burke

N0IMD

was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code test.

"continually try to put those who are against the morse code test"?
Put them where?

Ever notice how Len avoids direct questions?

Those "PCTA extras"

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't
necessarily unique.

Much easier to not put a name or face on the evil "PCTA Extras".
Makes it a lot easier to demonize them.

Very true, Mike.

But I think Len just doesn't like to use our callsigns.

Because I'm a PCTA Extra,(KB3EIA) and so are you,(N2EY) and so is
Dave,(K8MN) and Steve,(K4YZ) and Dan (W4NTI).

And Brian, W3RV. Plus many others, some departed.

Now if THAT isn't a diverse group, I don't know what is. TRying to put
us all in one "Olde tyme Hammes" group is doomed to failure.

Nonetheless, Len tries to.

Fact is, of the Extras in here who are
PCTA, there are a lot of different personalities, from abrasive to
mild mannered.

Same goes for NCTAs.

For example, I've had many detailed discussions with K2UNK, yet there's
never a harsh word, even though we're poles apart on most amateur radio
policy issues. Heck, K2UNK is a *director* of NCI!

Yes, same here, although I believe I got him pretty irratated a few
times. THat's okay, because I'm an irratating person some times! 8^)

Yet even when irritated, I cannot recall K2UNK ever calling people names or
turning a difference of opinion into a personal attack. The closest thing to it
was when we were discussing highway speed limits and Bill referred to "safety
Nazis" as one source of the 55 mph rule. And IIRC he apologized for that,
later.

One cannot stereotype a spectrum easily.

That's why Len denies there is a spectrum. All are blamed for what
someone supposedly did decades ago.

Perhaps there was some sort of prenatal terror induced by a Ham?

Could be. Len appears to have been bested in a debate by KH2D, and so now takes
out his vengenance on all who resemble KH2D in any way that's significant to
Len.

persist in claiming turf on who should
direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all
federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an
amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are
somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism.

Where, specifically, has this been claimed? By whom?

Perhaps you and N0IMD have very thin skins...;-)

PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and
are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup.

Really? You're the only person here I've seen tell another to "shut
the hell up".

Let us not forget the recent offers for one poster to engage in
fornication with himself,

That was me. And it wasn't an offer, it was a command. ;-)

Isn't it okay to refuse an immoral command?? hehe ;^)

How would I know? I'm supposedly a "nonserver", remember?

and for another to stick something up his "I/O
port". All in response to civil posts.

For Len, "civil" equals "agrees with Len". All else is uncivil.

Let us not forget the post where Len made fun of a Coast Guard
radio operator (the classic "sphincter post").

Also, there's the classic where Len talksed about W4NTI "filling the sight
target" and how it would only take "ounces of pressure"...

My lack of civility must be distressing indeed.

?? You're arguably the most civil poster here, Mike.

You imply your own superiority in all things here ;-) ;-)

You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person
walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same
benefits
from the United States as a person who has served in the military.

You're also entitled to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Or
that the earth is flat.

Or that your lifelong avoidance of Morse Code has some relevance to
amateur radio policy.

You are off on your own fantasy there.

Naw, Len, she hit the nail really square.

Kim and I disagree on many things. But every so often she really nails
one point or another. Like the one above.

Brian Burke served in the
USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and
specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we
are both proud of serving our country.

As you should be. Others feel the same way about *their* military
service, too.

But is the military the only way a citizen can serve our country?

Or are there other ways? Does it have to be "overseas"?

There are other, direct ways of doing this.

What about indirect ways?

Sure, but I'm surprised that these good folk can't figure out other
direct ways that are not specifically serving in the military.

To do so would be to admit that someone like me is right about something.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


wrote:


Mike Coslo wrote:


N2EY wrote:


In article ,




(Len Over 21) writes:



In article , "Kim"
writes:



Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument
initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You
are entitled.


Incorrect. Brian Burke



N0IMD


was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code test.



"continually try to put those who are against the morse code test"?
Put them where?


Ever notice how Len avoids direct questions?


Those "PCTA extras"



Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't
necessarily unique.


Much easier to not put a name or face on the evil "PCTA Extras".
Makes it a lot easier to demonize them.


Very true, Mike.



But I think Len just doesn't like to use our callsigns.


Because I'm a PCTA Extra,(KB3EIA) and so are you,(N2EY) and so is
Dave,(K8MN) and Steve,(K4YZ) and Dan (W4NTI).


And Brian, W3RV. Plus many others, some departed.

Oh yes, and each addition makes it harder to group us as one "type".


Now if THAT isn't a diverse group, I don't know what is. TRying to put
us all in one "Olde tyme Hammes" group is doomed to failure.


Nonetheless, Len tries to.


Fact is, of the Extras in here who are
PCTA, there are a lot of different personalities, from abrasive to
mild mannered.


Same goes for NCTAs.


For example, I've had many detailed discussions with K2UNK, yet there's
never a harsh word, even though we're poles apart on most amateur radio
policy issues. Heck, K2UNK is a *director* of NCI!


Yes, same here, although I believe I got him pretty irratated a few
times. THat's okay, because I'm an irratating person some times! 8^)


Yet even when irritated, I cannot recall K2UNK ever calling people names or
turning a difference of opinion into a personal attack. The closest thing to it
was when we were discussing highway speed limits and Bill referred to "safety
Nazis" as one source of the 55 mph rule. And IIRC he apologized for that,
later.


One cannot stereotype a spectrum easily.



That's why Len denies there is a spectrum. All are blamed for what
someone supposedly did decades ago.


Perhaps there was some sort of prenatal terror induced by a Ham?


Could be. Len appears to have been bested in a debate by KH2D, and so now takes
out his vengenance on all who resemble KH2D in any way that's significant to
Len.


persist in claiming turf on who should
direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all
federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an
amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are
somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism.



Where, specifically, has this been claimed? By whom?



Perhaps you and N0IMD have very thin skins...;-)



PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and
are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup.


Really? You're the only person here I've seen tell another to "shut
the hell up".



Let us not forget the recent offers for one poster to engage in
fornication with himself,



That was me. And it wasn't an offer, it was a command. ;-)


Isn't it okay to refuse an immoral command?? hehe ;^)


How would I know? I'm supposedly a "nonserver", remember?


and for another to stick something up his "I/O
port". All in response to civil posts.



For Len, "civil" equals "agrees with Len". All else is uncivil.


Let us not forget the post where Len made fun of a Coast Guard
radio operator (the classic "sphincter post").

Also, there's the classic where Len talksed about W4NTI "filling the sight
target" and how it would only take "ounces of pressure"...


My lack of civility must be distressing indeed.


?? You're arguably the most civil poster here, Mike.

And occasionally, that can be incredibly irritating to some people! ;^)


You imply your own superiority in all things here ;-) ;-)


You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person
walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same
benefits

from the United States as a person who has served in the military.


You're also entitled to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Or
that the earth is flat.


Or that your lifelong avoidance of Morse Code has some relevance to
amateur radio policy.


You are off on your own fantasy there.


Naw, Len, she hit the nail really square.


Kim and I disagree on many things. But every so often she really nails
one point or another. Like the one above.

Of course she is correct in this case. The "service" argument is too
often thrown out as a way to stifle discussion. No one wants to look
like they don't support our servicemen and women, so more often than
not, the person just shuts up rather than risk the "unpatriotic" moniker
about to be thrust on them.


Brian Burke served in the
USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and
specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we
are both proud of serving our country.



As you should be. Others feel the same way about *their* military
service, too.


But is the military the only way a citizen can serve our country?



Or are there other ways? Does it have to be "overseas"?


There are other, direct ways of doing this.


What about indirect ways?


Sure, but I'm surprised that these good folk can't figure out other
direct ways that are not specifically serving in the military.

To do so would be to admit that someone like me is right about something.

Ahh, but you are.

- Mike KB3EIA -