|
Tsk. Poor frustrated Avenging Angle. I was transmitting RF on HF, VHF, UHF, and microwaves in the 1950s. Again in the 1960s, then in the 1970s (including LF and VLF), and in the 1980s and 1990s. Earlier this year (which includes the 2000s) I was talking on HF from a sailboat. I've done it in the military, in civilian life, for the U.S. government and for private business (a little of which includes my partner- ship in a private business), and with local utilities...not to mention on land, in the air, and on water. Not a single second of "operating" time...Just another Uncle Sam Green radio mechanic. "Logs" are only required by lumber companies. The only non-amateur "logging" required is in radio broadcasting (which I've been doing for WREX-TV, WMCW, WRRR) and (formerly) for certain communications conducted by corporations (RCA EAS Division). Those have been duly noted on the back of my First Class Radio- Telephone (Commercial) Radio Operator License and signed off by the Chief Engineers or responsible Staff Engineer...and witnessed by an FCC Field Office when the License was up for renewal. Thus Len should have enough smarts to handle the amateur writtens, up to extra. And spend a few weeks to learn 5wpm code, and he could get the ham license. Otherwise he's an amateur troll... :-) Amateur radio is basically a HOBBY activity, engaged in for personal pleasure and not for pecuniary compensation. As such it is NOT any sort of "life saving" or "emergency" radio service. It, like most any other human activity, CAN be used in emergencies but the Basis and Purpose as outlined in Part 97.1 Definitions does NOT establish itself as either an "emergency service" nor as some kind of vital radio communications activity needed by the nation. Really. Emergency comms is listed as one of several reasons the FCC does ham radio licenses and allocates the bandwidth for us. No all hams will have working equipment in a regional disaster, but some will. And ham radio doesn't require infrastructure (like cell phones do) to work. Power? A car that survived will provide 12V power, which most rigs are designed to run off of. And you also need hams outside the disaster area to talk to. |
"robert casey" wrote in message
ink.net... : : Thus Len should have enough smarts to...... : Otherwise he's an amateur troll... : : : I'm forced to disagree with the 'amateur' adjective. |
Indeed. Len is being paid by the contra-ARRL subversives. And he has
nothing to do with the counter-sniper-subversive-counter-sniper-sniper operations that the ARRL field DXCC checkers are conducting. You'll know them by their yellow magnetic ribbons stuck to their trunks. Meanwhile, Jimmy Carter is planning a counter-desert offensive defense to test automotive oil additives for the info-mercials that take over all of the freqs adjacent to the PBS freqs on the public airwaves. Gives Jim something to do between his anti-American postings. |
In article . net, robert casey
writes: I was transmitting RF on HF, VHF, UHF, and microwaves in the 1950s. Again in the 1960s, then in the 1970s (including LF and VLF), and in the 1980s and 1990s. Earlier this year (which includes the 2000s) I was talking on HF from a sailboat. I've done it in the military, in civilian life, for the U.S. government and for private business (a little of which includes my partner- ship in a private business), and with local utilities...not to mention on land, in the air, and on water. Not a single second of "operating" time...Just another Uncle Sam Green radio mechanic. "Logs" are only required by lumber companies. The only non-amateur "logging" required is in radio broadcasting (which I've been doing for WREX-TV, WMCW, WRRR) and (formerly) for certain communications conducted by corporations (RCA EAS Division). Those have been duly noted on the back of my First Class Radio- Telephone (Commercial) Radio Operator License and signed off by the Chief Engineers or responsible Staff Engineer...and witnessed by an FCC Field Office when the License was up for renewal. Thus Len should have enough smarts to handle the amateur writtens, up to extra. And spend a few weeks to learn 5wpm code, and he could get the ham license. Otherwise he's an amateur troll... :-) Everyone seems to be of the fixed mindset (imaginary department) that I am desiring to obtain an amateur radio license. Not true. My continuing advocacy is simply the removal of the morse code test requirement for any FCC-issued radio operator license. Since removal or retention of that morse code test element falls under the radio amateur POLICY subject matter, I am here for such advocacy...as well as in other venues. Nearly all individual correspondents in here are heavily focussed on their own personal experiences and viewpoints (as well as emphasizing their own alleged "expertise," aka bragging points). They have difficulty in the concept of debate on a SUBJECT rather than personality fights involving denigrating personalities who don't agree with them. Debating a SUBJECT rather than the personalities of the debaters should not normally be difficult. Unfortunately, the rather extreme polarization of individuals with thin emotional skins tends to destroy debates, rendering them to mere personality fights that are all too common in here. I am not shy on expressing displeasure at the countless personal attacks posted here in "response" from polarized individuals who abhor anyone with opinions differing from theirs. As a semi- professional writer in addition to being a professional electronics design engineer (of some experience in radio communications of many kinds), my replies to such biased, personally-insulting individuals is a rather easy task. Such provides a bit of personal "entertainment" as well; if I abhor anything it is the rigid mindset of the extremely polarized self-righteous individuals who cannot tolerate (ever) any opinion other than their own. :-) Well over two decades ago I became an advocate of elimination of the morse code test for a license. Not for myself, despite how "strange" that may appear to nearly everyone else. It is a SUBJECT which can stand on its own. That's not so among what seems to be the majority of radio amateurs in here. :-) By all the millions of words posted by all, especially those long-time licensees of the morse persuasion, there is NO debate. All shall continue for newcomers as it did for those old-timers when they entered amateur radio long ago. Those same individuals want to squelch debate fully off and misdirect all message content with perjorative postings on personalities of their "opponents." They have an imaginary territorial imperative that must be protected at all costs. An example of the misdirection into personal pejoratives are nearly all the postings of "K4YZ" in here. Case in point: My description of the operations of the then-3rd-largest Army radio station in ACAN a half century ago. I did that to illustrate the "plain, simple fact" that the U.S. military did NOT plan on using morse code mode for fixed, point-to-point long-distance message handling back a half century ago. Such messaging made up the overwhelming bulk of military "traffic" worldwide at those times...as it does now. But now such "traffic" is found on DSN terminals which rarely use any HF radio for network linking. "K4YZ" lacked such military radio communications experience, despite serving considerably longer than I did. He was ignorant of military communications history and even modern small-unit radio communications of today. He tried to misdirect my statements as personal bragging, trying to lie about military occupation specialty, and a host of other ugly statements, all of which was a number of lies originated by him. Not even close to debate, just a lot of meaningless personal insults from him. Amateur radio is basically a HOBBY activity, engaged in for personal pleasure and not for pecuniary compensation. As such it is NOT any sort of "life saving" or "emergency" radio service. It, like most any other human activity, CAN be used in emergencies but the Basis and Purpose as outlined in Part 97.1 Definitions does NOT establish itself as either an "emergency service" nor as some kind of vital radio communications activity needed by the nation. Really. Emergency comms is listed as one of several reasons the FCC does ham radio licenses and allocates the bandwidth for us. The FCC does not allocate bandwidth for "emergency comms" in amateur radio other than the Alaskan emergency frequency. FCC allocates several frequencies and bands intended solely for emergency use, nearly all in coordination with international radio communication agreements. Those are not in "ham bands." The five definitions of amateur radio activities in Part 97, Title 47 C.F.R., are simple and most extremely general in subject. You can read into those anything you want but let's face the facts that most radio service part definitions are general in nature and almost always politically motivated. "Political" in that they provide some kind of baseline for disputes and competition with other radio services as well as in the curious patois of the legal profession. Now for "emergency comms," a look into Parts 1 and 2 of Title 47 C.F.R. (as well as repetition of mention in other Parts) will reveal that there is NO prohibition against anyone using any frequency or any mode to perform REAL emergency communications. Self- styled "radio cops" will come unglued at that, I suppose, but then they were never properly glued down to begin with... Did the majority of amateur radio hobbyists get into ham radio BECAUSE of the "emergency comms" ability? I doubt it. Acronym ARS doesn't stand for "Amergency Radio Service." Can amateur radio be used for emergency communications? Of course. It has been used that way in the past. However, there are many bands and frequencies other than ham radio ones allocated for that purpose and there are hundreds of thousands of radios already used by Public Safety Radio Services expressly for such emergency and protective use. No all hams will have working equipment in a regional disaster, but some will. And ham radio doesn't require infrastructure (like cell phones do) to work. Careful. That is starting to drift off into the usual emotional fantasy wish-fulfillment kind of thing that so many do. Think a moment. Police agencies, fire departments, medical installations do not have direct tie-ins with amateur radio. Neither do utility companies, transport industries, contractor businesses and all other entities which are DIRECTLY affected with emergencies. Military and National Guard units have a nebulous tie-in through MARS, but MARS frequencies are just outside ham bands. The military has adequate communications means on its own and can cope with large local and regional emergency aid. Yes, all those agencies can be contacted by telephone...but the telephone is part of the existing non-amateur infrastructure. :-) There are several solutions already practiced by all those agencies. The Greater Los Angeles area has had a working Disaster center for a decade, already proven in several local emergencies (including the Northridge Earthquake). That ties in ALL local government agencies who regularly practice drilling and checking out of disaster-coping plans; that assumes that SOME of the infrastructure already survives (including the telephone system with its cell sites). The state of California has the ECS, Emergency Communications System, and the ECS will accept any system, any person as a volunteer. Since California has already experienced a tsunami nearly destroying a northern seacoast town, planning and drilling includes such disasters in addition to the wildfires and earthquakes. The federal government has SHARES (for "shared resources") which makes use of roughly a thousand federal HF stations nationwide as well as around the world. Of those groupings and of many other local, regional emergency groupings, the ARE an infrastructure. In order for local amateur radio operators and equipment to be effective, they must operate WITH that infrastructure, that existing organization. They must learn to integrate with dozens of existing local and regional agencies who all have their own non-amateur radio equipment. The "infrastructure" fails? No. It is there and survives. Yes, that infrastructure can be altered by a disaster but it is far more adaptable and robust than individual radio amateur hobbyists. Hams have to learn and accept working with other agencies, not to day-dream about being some lone hero saving the whatever. A car that survived will provide 12V power, which most rigs are designed to run off of. And you also need hams outside the disaster area to talk to. Okay, lets consider a REAL emergency, such as a tsunami hitting a coastal community. Some of the first communications out of that area is an initial damage assessment, medical aid, requests for earth-moving equipment, transportation of various kinds, perhaps requests for food supplies (there could be other things). "Health and welfare" messages of a personal nature are LOW on the priority list. Can any ham inside or outside an emergency area handle all the various items contained in that initial messaging with any ease AND accuracy? Probably not. The existing agencies want communications that are accurate, clear, that will get through NOW. Initial emergency aid requests are immediate. Lives may be at stake in that immediacy. That wouldn't be some kind of Field Day contest in a local park outing kind of thing. Medical workers IN an emergency area will want to talk to medical workers outside of the area, directly to avoid any mistakes in requests for supplies or other medical aid. They can talk "medical." If there is earth-moving equipment needed to push back damage, those specialists will want to talk outside to other specialists. They can talk "bulldozer." And so forth, for all other occupations that would be of aid. Individual hams wouldn't have the knowledge to effect clear, error-free communications with ease for everything that is needed. Those that DO have the knowledge must be able to communicate directly with their counterparts outside of the area. Those could use their OWN radios and radio networks. Those exist. Amateur radio isn't the only radio resource and there is no guarantee that it would survive better than other radio services' equipment. The reverse is more likely true. The scenario of the lone ham hero saving the village is wonderful, emotionally-stirring fiction, but it remains fiction. Real emergencies aren't fictitious. They need aid agencies who can work together, plan together, drill together, and keep on practicing. |
Okay, lets consider a REAL emergency, such as a tsunami hitting a coastal community. Some of the first communications out of that area is an initial damage assessment, medical aid, requests for earth-moving equipment, transportation of various kinds, perhaps requests for food supplies (there could be other things). "Health and welfare" messages of a personal nature are LOW on the priority list. Yes, and hams can handle that low priority stuff to offload the more important communications links. "I took care of the mundane boring stuff so the heroes could save the lives"... Can any ham inside or outside an emergency area handle all the various items contained in that initial messaging with any ease AND accuracy? Probably not. Medical workers IN an emergency area will want to talk to medical workers outside of the area, directly to avoid any mistakes in requests for supplies or other medical aid. They can talk "medical." If such came up, the ham would give the doctor the mic and let him talk directly. To another doctor at another ham shack using the mic there. THis doesn't happen very often. and thinking about it much borders on fantasy. But the FCC says do whatever helps in an emergency. And so forth, for all other occupations that would be of aid. Individual hams wouldn't have the knowledge to effect clear, error-free communications with ease for everything that is needed. Nothing says that the ham is the only one allowed to use the microphone or operate the radio. Usually the ham should be around to help if something breaks, as "control operator" but he need not be a control freak. Those that DO have the knowledge must be able to communicate directly with their counterparts outside of the area. Those could use their OWN radios and radio networks. Those exist. Amateur radio isn't the only radio resource and there is no guarantee that it would survive better than other radio services' equipment. The reverse is more likely true. True, but sometimes at random the ham radio survives and the others don't. Not real often, but why forbid it? The scenario of the lone ham hero saving the village is wonderful, emotionally-stirring fiction, but it remains fiction. Real emergencies aren't fictitious. It doesn't happen that often, and when it did it's mostly an initial call for help. In which case the aid agencies come to the rescue and take over. They need aid agencies who can work together, plan together, drill together, and keep on practicing. |
Lenof21 wrote:
In article . net, robert casey writes: Thus Len should have enough smarts to handle the amateur writtens, up to extra. And spend a few weeks to learn 5wpm code, and he could get the ham license. Otherwise he's an amateur troll... :-) Everyone seems to be of the fixed mindset (imaginary department) that I am desiring to obtain an amateur radio license. Not true. Your story changes from month-to-month and year-to-year. Sometimes you have no interest in obtaining an amateur radio license. At other times you've indicated a decades-long interest in amateur radio. It can't be both ways. My continuing advocacy is simply the removal of the morse code test requirement for any FCC-issued radio operator license. There aren't many services for which a morse exam is required, are there? Has anyone requested your services as an advocate? Since removal or retention of that morse code test element falls under the radio amateur POLICY subject matter, I am here for such advocacy...as well as in other venues. Nearly all individual correspondents in here are heavily focussed on their own personal experiences and viewpoints (as well as emphasizing their own alleged "expertise," aka bragging points). They have difficulty in the concept of debate on a SUBJECT rather than personality fights involving denigrating personalities who don't agree with them. What I've seen from you, Leonard, is that your focus is based upon your personal experiences and viewpoints. You seem to emphasize your own alleged "expertise" (aka bragging points). You have difficulty debating rather than engaging in the denigration of those who don't agree with you. Maybe you're thin-skinned. Debating a SUBJECT rather than the personalities of the debaters should not normally be difficult. Unfortunately, the rather extreme polarization of individuals with thin emotional skins tends to destroy debates, rendering them to mere personality fights that are all too common in here. What's an "emotional skin"? I am not shy on expressing displeasure at the countless personal attacks posted here in "response" from polarized individuals who abhor anyone with opinions differing from theirs. No, you seem always to have strewn rose petals in the path of those whose opinion differs from yours. :-) As a semi- professional writer in addition to being a professional electronics design engineer (of some experience in radio communications of many kinds)... Is this some of your "alleged expertise"? ...my replies to such biased, personally-insulting individuals is a rather easy task. You don't make it look easy. Such provides a bit of personal "entertainment" as well... I find your attempts entertaining, Leonard. ...if I abhor anything it is the rigid mindset of the extremely polarized self-righteous individuals who cannot tolerate (ever) any opinion other than their own. :-) Have you ever expressed tolerance for the code testing opinions of those who do not agree with you? :-) Well over two decades ago I became an advocate of elimination of the morse code test for a license. The world loves an uninvolved, self-appointed advocate. Not for myself, despite how "strange" that may appear to nearly everyone else. ....and there is near unanimity that it appears strange for you to be advocating change in something in which you are uninvolved. It is a SUBJECT which can stand on its own. Then why, pray tell, does it need assistance from you? That's not so among what seems to be the majority of radio amateurs in here. :-) By all the millions of words posted by all, especially those long-time licensees of the morse persuasion, there is NO debate. All shall continue for newcomers as it did for those old-timers when they entered amateur radio long ago. That is simply false. When most of us passed the Extra exam, the code exam speed was 20 wpm. Now the speed is 5 wpm. The old entry level exam speed was 5 wpm. There is currently an entry level exam with no morse exam. Those same individuals want to squelch debate fully off and misdirect all message content with perjorative postings on personalities of their "opponents." They have an imaginary territorial imperative that must be protected at all costs. ....and you've never, ever made pejorative (not perjorative) postings on personalities, eh Leonard? An example of the misdirection into personal pejoratives are nearly all the postings of "K4YZ" in here. Case in point: My description of the operations of the then-3rd-largest Army radio station in ACAN a half century ago. I did that to illustrate the "plain, simple fact" that the U.S. military did NOT plan on using morse code mode for fixed, point-to-point long-distance message handling back a half century ago. Such messaging made up the overwhelming bulk of military "traffic" worldwide at those times...as it does now. But now such "traffic" is found on DSN terminals which rarely use any HF radio for network linking. That's all misdirection. Radio amateurs aren't part of the Army, nor do they handle bulk message traffic. What has any of that to do with amateur radio? "K4YZ" lacked such military radio communications experience, despite serving considerably longer than I did. He was ignorant of military communications history and even modern small-unit radio communications of today. What has any of that to do with amateur radio? He tried to misdirect my statements as personal bragging, trying to lie about military occupation specialty, and a host of other ugly statements, all of which was a number of lies originated by him. Not even close to debate, just a lot of meaningless personal insults from him. He tried to misdirect your misdirecting statements about what the Army did a half-century ago? To set the record straight, Steve just insulted you? You never insulted him, his jobs, his military service? Emergency comms is listed as one of several reasons the FCC does ham radio licenses and allocates the bandwidth for us. The FCC does not allocate bandwidth for "emergency comms" in amateur radio other than the Alaskan emergency frequency. You're wrong, though I'm not surprised. The FCC has allocated specific frequencies for hurricane traffic or other emergencies any number of times. In 1983, the Commission authorized specific stations to conduct communications between an amateur station on Grenada and both State Department the U.S. military on 14.351 MHz outside the 20m amateur band. I was one of 'em. No all hams will have working equipment in a regional disaster, but some will. And ham radio doesn't require infrastructure (like cell phones do) to work. Careful. That is starting to drift off into the usual emotional fantasy wish-fulfillment kind of thing that so many do. Think a moment. Police agencies, fire departments, medical installations do not have direct tie-ins with amateur radio. Neither do utility companies, transport industries, contractor businesses and all other entities which are DIRECTLY affected with emergencies. Military and National Guard units have a nebulous tie-in through MARS, but MARS frequencies are just outside ham bands. The military has adequate communications means on its own and can cope with large local and regional emergency aid. Yes, all those agencies can be contacted by telephone...but the telephone is part of the existing non-amateur infrastructure. :-) :-) indeed. The Marshall County WV ARES comm van is equipped with amateur radio and county police/fire/medical/SAR radio equipment. ARES members have been trained in the use of the equipment and have been authorized to use it. The ARES group is funded by the county and is counted upon by the county. Dave K8MN |
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:10:33 GMT, robert casey wrote:
Can any ham inside or outside an emergency area handle all the various items contained in that initial messaging with any ease AND accuracy? Probably not. Medical workers IN an emergency area will want to talk to medical workers outside of the area, directly to avoid any mistakes in requests for supplies or other medical aid. They can talk "medical." If such came up, the ham would give the doctor the mic and let him talk directly. To another doctor at another ham shack using the mic there. THis doesn't happen very often. and thinking about it much borders on fantasy. But the FCC says do whatever helps in an emergency. We do that ROUTINELY in our quarterly hospital communication drills, where all intra- and inter-hospital communications (800 MHz systems) go down for an hour and the only comms are via ham radio (locally 2-m voice, 2-m packet, and 3/4-m SSTV). JACO (or whatever the acronym is - the hospital accreditation agency) now requires all hospitals to have backup communications by ham radio installed in the EOC or the ER or both (we have it in both) with licensed personnel on call, either on staff or volunteers, as a condition of continuing accreditation- at least here in the Pacific Northwest. My "regular" volunteer assignment is as the voice operator for the inter-hospital net at the local (major) Med Center and we have facilities for having medical personnel talk "medical" to other medical personnel. Most of the traffic, though, is status info - reports of beds occupied/available, resources needed, etc. Anything of a record nature goes by packet. Graphics go by SSTV. We've had two "live" events where the hospital was taken off the electric grid because of maintenance on the latter, and we stood standby watch for two 8-hour shifts. Fortunately nothing adverse happened, but we were ready and able to take over on a minute's notice. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon |
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 22:56:30 GMT, Dave Heil wrote:
Police agencies, fire departments, medical installations do not have direct tie-ins with amateur radio. Neither do utility companies, transport industries, contractor businesses and all other entities which are DIRECTLY affected with emergencies. Strange. These are all "served agencies" of our ARES/RACES operation here in Washington County (suburban Portland). Why are they "served agencies" with installed equipment and assigned operators if they have no tie-in with us? Military and National Guard units have a nebulous tie-in through MARS, but MARS frequencies are just outside ham bands. The military has adequate communications means on its own and can cope with large local and regional emergency aid. Yes, all those agencies can be contacted by telephone...but the telephone is part of the existing non-amateur infrastructure. :-) :-) indeed. The Marshall County WV ARES comm van is equipped with amateur radio and county police/fire/medical/SAR radio equipment. ARES members have been trained in the use of the equipment and have been authorized to use it. The ARES group is funded by the county and is counted upon by the county. Similarly here in WashCo. Plus we are trained and authorized to handle the served agencies' overflow traffic on our ham facilities in the event that RACES is activated. Amazing what someone who is not involved in the day-to-day nitty gritty of amateur emergency communication training and operations would want us to believe. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon |
robert casey wrote:
Okay, lets consider a REAL emergency, such as a tsunami hitting a coastal community. Some of the first communications out of that area is an initial damage assessment, medical aid, requests for earth-moving equipment, transportation of various kinds, perhaps requests for food supplies (there could be other things). "Health and welfare" messages of a personal nature are LOW on the priority list. Yes, and hams can handle that low priority stuff to offload the more important communications links. "I took care of the mundane boring stuff so the heroes could save the lives"... Perhaps we should ask the people who are on the ends of that health and welfare, low priority comms how low of priority those are? Like "Hello Mother and father, I am alive and healthy, but in need of a new passport." How important is that? On the global scale, not to much, but critically important to the people involved.... - Mike KB3EIA - |
On the emergency vehicle runs into the evacuating town of Valmeyer
Illinois, during the 93' Mississippi flood, a ham accompanied each run because EMS radio communications wouldn't cover the area below the bluffs. But the amateur could communicate from below the bluffs up to a repeater on the opposite bank of the river in Missouri, and the ham at the dispatch could relay messages. BTW, the town didn't make it. But how often do you have a 500yr flood? (rhetorical question - K8MN need not apply). bb |
But how often do you have a 500yr flood? (rhetorical question - K8MN need not apply). Seems about once every 20 years..... |
robert casey wrote:
Yes, and hams can handle that low priority stuff to offload the more important communications links. "I took care of the mundane boring stuff so the heroes could save the lives"... Our last hurricane (1992) was a direct hit upon the island of Kauai. All normal comms between Kauai County and the rest of the state were wiped out. The ONLY comms between the governor here in Honolulu and the mayor of Kauai was via amateur radio. Not only H&W traffic was passed, but more importantly, safety of life traffic, too. Amateur radio is part of each county's emergency plan to the point where ham stations are set up in each police and fire station. Licensing exams are given regularly to police and firemen. Also, every hospital has a station. The state thinks so highly of amateur radio that our statewide repeater system rides on the state-owned microwave backbone which connects each county (island). So, when normal communications go down, all the counties (islands) of state are neatly tied together via ham radio. Jeff KH6O -- Chief Petty Officer, U.S. Coast Guard Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System |
Jeffrey Herman wrote:
robert casey wrote: Yes, and hams can handle that low priority stuff to offload the more important communications links. "I took care of the mundane boring stuff so the heroes could save the lives"... Our last hurricane (1992) was a direct hit upon the island of Kauai. All normal comms between Kauai County and the rest of the state were wiped out. The ONLY comms between the governor here in Honolulu and the mayor of Kauai was via amateur radio. Not only H&W traffic was passed, but more importantly, safety of life traffic, too. Amateur radio is part of each county's emergency plan to the point where ham stations are set up in each police and fire station. Licensing exams are given regularly to police and firemen. Also, every hospital has a station. The state thinks so highly of amateur radio that our statewide repeater system rides on the state-owned microwave backbone which connects each county (island). So, when normal communications go down, all the counties (islands) of state are neatly tied together via ham radio. And yet that seems so hard for some peope to grasp. - Mike KB3EIA - |
But how often do you have a 500yr flood? (rhetorical question -
K8MN need not apply). Seems about once every 20 years..... That's just the confidence interval. |
Jeff, so all of the Coast Guard comms were wiped out, too?
|
In article , Mike Coslo
writes: Jeffrey Herman wrote: robert casey wrote: Yes, and hams can handle that low priority stuff to offload the more important communications links. "I took care of the mundane boring stuff so the heroes could save the lives"... Our last hurricane (1992) was a direct hit upon the island of Kauai. All normal comms between Kauai County and the rest of the state were wiped out. The ONLY comms between the governor here in Honolulu and the mayor of Kauai was via amateur radio. Not only H&W traffic was passed, but more importantly, safety of life traffic, too. Amateur radio is part of each county's emergency plan to the point where ham stations are set up in each police and fire station. Licensing exams are given regularly to police and firemen. Also, every hospital has a station. The state thinks so highly of amateur radio that our statewide repeater system rides on the state-owned microwave backbone which connects each county (island). So, when normal communications go down, all the counties (islands) of state are neatly tied together via ham radio. And yet that seems so hard for some peope to grasp. Tsk. Some grasp at straws. Especially the strawmen. First of all, a search fails to turn up ANY evidence that "all normal comms" were disabled on any island of Hawaii in 1992. Note: That search includes the words 'normal communications.' Searching on the Hawaii state government web information turns up thousands of interesting bits of information on Hawaii, its police and fire departments (some quite detailed, nice photos, etc.), laws in process, various agencies, school system, and so forth. So much so that it became unproductive to check out each search hit to verify the items of Lecturer Herman's statements. There is NO mention found that "policemen and firemen" are all given examinations IN amateur radio nor that amateur radio equipment is set up in each police and fire station. If that were so widespread as claimed, then each department would have featured that on their web pages, included it in law proceeding remarks/comments, and so forth. There's nothing from the Administration side of Hawaii government to indicate that happening. Not all hospitals are available on the web but the statement that "ALL hospitals have ham stations" is a bit over the top. I'm open to some evidence other than the usual RACES propaganda to verify any of this "university lecturer's" claims. The state of Hawaii is not a small one; it is important, a focus point for our Asian neighbors in the Pacific. Hawaii is generally considered "remote" by mainlanders and therefore those who wish to embellish a few truths seem to think they can get away with it, of not being checked out. Like some other fraternal order propaganda, telling folks what they want to hear will dissuade them from finding out it it is truth or not. The state of Hawaii has an Interstate Highway System. It is fudging the truth a bit to claim one can drive that system to any other state...without another means to span part of the Pacific Ocean. I would suppose that a junior college instructor could call themselves a "part of the University of Hawaii system" and that they "lecture on mathematics" if they hold classes under that instructor. But, the same "mathematics lecturer" (on the scale of Roger Penrose?) once claimed that the ARRL Amateur's Handbook was on a "bestseller" listing in the USA...and the American Bookseller's Association (ABA) couldn't verify that at all. :-) Folks, we are getting into a huge embellishment project here with all these straw structures. In other venues it would be called LYING. In here it is apparently an Orwellian kind of Newspeak. |
Len Over 21 wrote: Folks, we are getting into a huge embellishment project here with all these straw structures. In other venues it would be called LYING. In here it is apparently an Orwellian kind of Newspeak. The ONLY thing "Orwellian" here is the idea that YOU represent any kind of honest, trustworthy or otherwise reputable point of view. There's a LIAR here, alright, and it's Leonard H. Anderson. His mistruths and deceit are well documented in Google. I'll give you this, Lennie...For a putz that routinely "embellished" his Army "career" with the sacrifices made by soldiers who died 3 years before you were ever inducted, you certainly have some huge cajones accusing others of "embellishment". Face it, Lennie...As long as you continue to lie, deceive and misrepresent the facts, you will have your nose rubbed in your misdeeds in this forum. You are not honest. You are not trustworthy. And THAT'S a fact. Steve, K4YZ |
Len Over 21 wrote:
The state of Hawaii has an Interstate Highway System. It is fudging the truth a bit to claim one can drive that system to any other state...without another means to span part of the Pacific Ocean. It's paid for with federal funds, thus it's part of the federal interstate highway system. It's no different from Interstate 405 in California: It begins in LA and ends in San Diego -- it never leaves the state yet it's yet it's still an "interstate." I would suppose that a junior college instructor could call themselves a "part of the University of Hawaii system" and that they "lecture on mathematics" if they hold classes under that instructor. The semester begin tomorrow -- I'll be teaching a calculus class at the university campus (which is not a "junior college"), 8:30-9:20 MWF, Keller Hall room 403. The class is full but I'll let you register, if you think you can handle the class. But, the same "mathematics lecturer" (on the scale of Roger Penrose?) once claimed that the ARRL Amateur's Handbook was on a "bestseller" listing in the USA...and the American Bookseller's Association (ABA) couldn't verify that at all. :-) Go back and read my complete post, paying attention to the phrase "...technical best seller." Folks, we are getting into a huge embellishment project here with all these straw structures. In other venues it would be called LYING. In here it is apparently an Orwellian kind of Newspeak. Accusing me of lying? Are you sure you want to commit libel? No 73 for you, Jeff KH6O -- Chief Petty Officer, U.S. Coast Guard Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System |
Len Over 21 wrote:
First of all, a search fails to turn up ANY evidence that "all normal comms" were disabled on any island of Hawaii in 1992. Note: That search includes the words 'normal communications.' What the heck are you searching? Try something like "Oahu Civil Defense RACES hurricane Iniki." Do you need your hand held, too? Not all hospitals are available on the web but the statement that "ALL hospitals have ham stations" is a bit over the top. Over the top of what? It's called the Health Comm Network, a subcommittee of the Emergency Preparedness Committee, Healthcare Association of Hawaii. The net connects Oahu Civil Defense, Blood Bank of Hawaii, Castle Hospital, Kaiser Hospital, Kapiolani Hospital, Kuakini Hospital, Pali Momi Hospital, Queen's Hospital, St. Francis-Liliha Hospital, St. Francis-West Hospital, and Shriner's Hospital. I'm open to some evidence other than the usual RACES propaganda to verify any of this "university lecturer's" claims. The state of Hawaii is not a small one; it is important, a focus point "...focal point..." for our Asian neighbors in the Pacific. Hawaii is generally considered "remote" by mainlanders and therefore those who wish to embellish a few truths seem to think they can get away with it, of not being checked out. Like some other fraternal order propaganda, telling folks what they want to hear will dissuade them from finding out it it is truth or not. Whatever. Do a Google search on "disaster radio in hawaii" to learn all the good things amateurs do over here. Still no 73 for you, Jeff KH6O -- Chief Petty Officer, U.S. Coast Guard Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System |
"Jeffrey Herman" wrote in message ... : : Accusing me of lying? Are you sure you want to commit libel? : According to Funk et Wagnall's, something about "grossly unflattering utterance". OK I can commit that. Watch this. JEFFREY IS AN IDIOT! Now all the idiots will sue me for libel. Barnabus Grumwitch Overbyte sends |
In article , (Jeffrey Herman)
writes: It's paid for with federal funds, thus it's part of the federal interstate highway system. It's no different from Interstate 405 in California: It begins in LA and ends in San Diego -- it never leaves the state yet it's yet it's still an "interstate." Ooooo...going to lecture me about my local geography? :-) Try Interstate FIVE as an illustration...begins at the Canadian border goes all the way south through Washington, Oregon, California, ends at the Mexican border. Over a kilomile long, takes two days to drive at lawful speeds. Been there, done that, many times. Gee, if I wanted a LECTURE on highways, I'd go to the AAA website of my local auto club office...they give out free maps to us members. The semester begin tomorrow -- I'll be teaching a calculus class at the university campus (which is not a "junior college"), 8:30-9:20 MWF, Keller Hall room 403. The class is full but I'll let you register, if you think you can handle the class. Oh, wow.... (a big Ben Stein "wowwww....") So awfully nice of you, Mr. Petty Chief Ossifer. I'll just go on down to the nearest ATM, withdraw a few thousand, cross the I-5 over to Bob Hope Airport and fly over to the Islands...JUST...for the "pleasure" of hearing you "lecture" on The Calculus! Oh frabjous joy... Go back and read my complete post, paying attention to the phrase "...technical best seller." Go for it! "TECHNICAL" best seller! What year? And who was the compiler of that gem of information? [was it a bookstore in Newington?] You might try the ABA or some other book industry associations first to verify some nonsense claim. Or take off your blinders. Whichever is easiest. I've only been USING technical books since 1960 and my first job assignment as an electronics engineer responsible for new design. The Green Bible, the Blue Bible, Millman & Taub, Henney, Petersen and Weldon, Floyd Gardner, lots of names which are very familiar in my small 30+ foot total length personal bookshelf right above the immediate computer desk here. Since I already write for money and know several authors (who work at that full time) plus book store owners-managers, I have some acquaintenceship with the professional book associations. Now, if you wish to LECTURE me on "best sellers" of anything, I will invite you to pass gas on a shuttle flight ("go take a flying fart") between islands. === I think you ought to get back to verifying the claim that the Islands have ham stations at every police and fire station...or whatever you wrote. [if you also "lecture" in English, somebody rated you wrong] You might remind the state government to update their web pages to show those gems of information...or is that "sensitive" info for certain people's eyes only? :-) Riiiight...I can just see a Billion-dollar tourist industry "relying" on ham radio in Times of Troubles to keep their many lines of communications going during all those natural disasters that beset the Islands all the time. Riiiight...and there's no military on the Islands other than the USCG...not even the USARPAC with their Army callsign ADA. :-) Accusing me of lying? Are you sure you want to commit libel? Accuse a MATHEMATICS LECTURER of lying? Heavens no! Let's just say you don' know no bettah, blalah. :-) I wouldn't do such terrible things to a kind soul who got a Rhode Island ham his own "FCC mailing address" in Hawaii. By the way, how is Mike Deignan? Still busy with all those "ham clubs" he had callsigns for? Don't take any wooden pineapples... |
Mike Coslo wrote: Like "Hello Mother and father, I am alive and healthy, but in need of a new passport." - Mike KB3EIA - I'm sure the State Department will send one right over, on Mom and Dad's say so. |
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Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , (Jeffrey Herman) writes: It's paid for with federal funds, thus it's part of the federal interstate highway system. It's no different from Interstate 405 in California: It begins in LA and ends in San Diego -- it never leaves the state yet it's yet it's still an "interstate." Ooooo...going to lecture me about my local geography? :-) Well, you didn't seem to know about how how things worked. Try Interstate FIVE as an illustration...begins at the Canadian border goes all the way south through Washington, Oregon, California, ends at the Mexican border. Over a kilomile long, takes two days to drive at lawful speeds. Been there, done that, many times. The point was about a part of the Interstate highway system which never leaves a particular state. Gee, if I wanted a LECTURE on highways, I'd go to the AAA website of my local auto club office...they give out free maps to us members. You don't want to get one; you want to give one. Go for it! "TECHNICAL" best seller! What year? And who was the compiler of that gem of information? [was it a bookstore in Newington?] You might try the ABA or some other book industry associations first to verify some nonsense claim. Or take off your blinders. Whichever is easiest. Do you have any information to the contrary, Leonard, or are you just blowing smoke? I've only been USING technical books since 1960 and my first job assignment as an electronics engineer responsible for new design. To quote you, "Why must you always live in the past"? The Green Bible, the Blue Bible, Millman & Taub, Henney, Petersen and Weldon, Floyd Gardner, lots of names which are very familiar in my small 30+ foot total length personal bookshelf right above the immediate computer desk here. Since I already write for money and know several authors (who work at that full time) plus book store owners-managers, I have some acquaintenceship with the professional book associations. Now, if you wish to LECTURE me on "best sellers" of anything, I will invite you to pass gas on a shuttle flight ("go take a flying fart") between islands. So because you have a shelf full of books and since you've written for money, Jeffrey's claim can't possibly be true. Does that sum it up? I am happy to hear that you have a personal bookshelf though. Dave K8MN |
"Dave Heil" wrote in message
... Len Over 21 wrote: In article , (Jeffrey Herman) writes: It's paid for with federal funds, thus it's part of the federal interstate highway system. It's no different from Interstate 405 in California: It begins in LA and ends in San Diego -- it never leaves the state yet it's yet it's still an "interstate." Ooooo...going to lecture me about my local geography? :-) Well, you didn't seem to know about how how things worked. I think there's a difference in highways; as in "intrastate" and "interstate." I believe it's intrastate if it stays inside the boundary of a state and "interstate" if it goes outside the boundary of a state. Kim W5TIT |
I think there's a difference in highways; as in "intrastate" and "interstate." I believe it's intrastate if it stays inside the boundary of a state and "interstate" if it goes outside the boundary of a state. Kim W5TIT It's more to do with who funded the construction of what highway. The Interstates were federally funded (about 90%, 10% by the state that whatever interstate highway is in). Before the Interstates were built, long distance driving was a real PITA. That the Dept of Defense partially funded the Interstates so they would be able to get convoys of troops and stuff to somewhere. Intersections with local roads were designed so if a bridge was bombed, traffic could still get thru (go on the off ramp and then across the local road and back on on the on ramp). Railroads worked well in WWII, but our mainland for the most part wasn't bombed. Take out a railroad bridge and things get bottled up for a while. |
Jeffrey Herman wrote:
Len Over 21 wrote: The state of Hawaii has an Interstate Highway System. It is fudging the truth a bit to claim one can drive that system to any other state...without another means to span part of the Pacific Ocean. It's paid for with federal funds, thus it's part of the federal interstate highway system. It's no different from Interstate 405 in California: It begins in LA and ends in San Diego -- it never leaves the state yet it's yet it's still an "interstate." 3 digit numbered Interstate highways are usually short spurs and circle routes. Built to bypass cities drivers are not looking to stop in, or to connect to other Interstate or local highways. The numbering pattern is NXX, where XX is the number of a long Interstate highway, and N to give each spur or circle its own name inside the same state. Circles usually get even numbered Ns, and spurs odd numbered Ns. Also odd numbered XX Interstates usually run north/south, and even numbered XX Interstates east/west. They put the low numbered XX Interstates in the southwest, as the Northeast had the low numbered old US route roads (cuts down on user confusion). AFAIK, there's no Interstate 666, Bible Belters would think it was the "Highway to hell" ;-) Or an Interstate 13.... |
The semester begin tomorrow -- I'll be teaching a calculus class at the university campus (which is not a "junior college"), 8:30-9:20 MWF, Keller Hall room 403. The class is full but I'll let you register, if you think you can handle the class. Oh Calculus. I enjoyed it so much I took it twice! :-) Oh I learned enough to do exam problems to pass, but I can't say that I actually learned anything enough to actually use it to solve a real world problem. I once could do (intergral)(csc x^3)/(tan^2 x^4 +1) dx but what would you use that on? Oh and proofs. What a waste of time proofs were. And you never had to do any on tests. I must have missed the day of class where they taught how to do proofs and how to read them. And why you should care. It seemed to be just so much BS, as the only real proof of something is what gets a right answer on a test. |
"robert casey" wrote in message ink.net... : AFAIK, there's no Interstate 666, Bible Belters would think it was : the "Highway to hell" ;-) Our here we have US-666 coming up across the reservation out of Gallup and heading out into Utah somewhere. Deadly stretch south of the NM border and indeed probably is the "highway to hell" for many of its intoxicated user-victims. M.A.N. -- "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it." - Voltaire |
Kim wrote:
"Dave Heil" wrote in message ... Len Over 21 wrote: In article , (Jeffrey Herman) writes: It's paid for with federal funds, thus it's part of the federal interstate highway system. It's no different from Interstate 405 in California: It begins in LA and ends in San Diego -- it never leaves the state yet it's yet it's still an "interstate." Ooooo...going to lecture me about my local geography? :-) Well, you didn't seem to know about how how things worked. I think there's a difference in highways; as in "intrastate" and "interstate." I believe it's intrastate if it stays inside the boundary of a state and "interstate" if it goes outside the boundary of a state. That's nice, Kim. I don't know of anything called the "Intrastate Highway System". If it has a red, white and blue sign with I-something, I can assure you that it isn't part of the "Intrastate". Dave K8MN |
robert casey wrote: Before the Interstates were built, long distance driving was a real PITA. So I've been told. That the Dept of Defense partially funded the Interstates so they would be able to get convoys of troops and stuff to somewhere. Intersections with local roads were designed so if a bridge was bombed, traffic could still get thru (go on the off ramp and then across the local road and back on on the on ramp). Whole bunch of factors involved, like the Autobahns in Germany and the success of toll roads like the Pennsylvania Turnpike. Eisenhower was a big proponent of the interstate highway system. There was also the concerted effort of the automakers, oil and rubber companies, and even the concrete industry to get more Americans to own and drive cars and trucks. They went so far as to intentionally buy up and destroy transit systems (such as the Pacific Electric in the Los Angeles area) so that people would drive cars. Railroads worked well in WWII, but our mainland for the most part wasn't bombed. Take out a railroad bridge and things get bottled up for a while. Bombing bridges, particularly narrow ones like most RR spans, is singularly difficult without special weapons. Highway bridges are at least as vulnerable as RR bridges to such attacks. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Mel A. Nomah wrote: "robert casey" wrote in message ink.net... : AFAIK, there's no Interstate 666, Bible Belters would think it was : the "Highway to hell" ;-) Our here we have US-666 coming up across the reservation out of Gallup and heading out into Utah somewhere. Deadly stretch south of the NM border and indeed probably is the "highway to hell" for many of its intoxicated user-victims. M.A.N. I always enjoy driving on State Hwy 73. |
"Dave Heil" wrote in message
... Kim wrote: "Dave Heil" wrote in message ... Len Over 21 wrote: In article , (Jeffrey Herman) writes: It's paid for with federal funds, thus it's part of the federal interstate highway system. It's no different from Interstate 405 in California: It begins in LA and ends in San Diego -- it never leaves the state yet it's yet it's still an "interstate." Ooooo...going to lecture me about my local geography? :-) Well, you didn't seem to know about how how things worked. I think there's a difference in highways; as in "intrastate" and "interstate." I believe it's intrastate if it stays inside the boundary of a state and "interstate" if it goes outside the boundary of a state. That's nice, Kim. I don't know of anything called the "Intrastate Highway System". If it has a red, white and blue sign with I-something, I can assure you that it isn't part of the "Intrastate". Dave K8MN Y'know, Dave, you're one sorry-assed *******. I post something to be just making an observation and you, oh...well, never mind. I've never seen you post anything unless it involves being a smartass. Take a look at the other posts...such as the one from Robert Casey. But then, it'd probably bore you, since he's being informative and conducting a nice excahnge in communication. Kim W5TIT |
Kim wrote: "Dave Heil" wrote in message ... Kim wrote: "Dave Heil" wrote in message ... Len Over 21 wrote: In article , (Jeffrey Herman) writes: It's paid for with federal funds, thus it's part of the federal interstate highway system. It's no different from Interstate 405 in California: It begins in LA and ends in San Diego -- it never leaves the state yet it's yet it's still an "interstate." Ooooo...going to lecture me about my local geography? :-) Well, you didn't seem to know about how how things worked. I think there's a difference in highways; as in "intrastate" and "interstate." I believe it's intrastate if it stays inside the boundary of a state and "interstate" if it goes outside the boundary of a state. That's nice, Kim. I don't know of anything called the "Intrastate Highway System". If it has a red, white and blue sign with I-something, I can assure you that it isn't part of the "Intrastate". Dave K8MN Y'know, Dave, you're one sorry-assed *******. I'll bet you say that to all the fellows. Don't think your sweet talking will win me over. I post something to be just making an observation and you... ....pointed out that there is no "Intrastate". oh...well, never mind. I've never seen you post anything unless it involves being a smartass. Take a look at the other posts...such as the one from Robert Casey. But then, it'd probably bore you, since he's being informative and conducting a nice excahnge in communication. Do you have additional information about the "Intrastate" Highway System? Dave K8MN |
Len Over 21 wrote:
I think you ought to get back to verifying the claim that the Islands have ham stations at every police and fire station...or whatever you wrote. You're on your own now. I mentioned that our Oahu hospitals had amateur stations manned by licensed hospital staff. But because of your inability to use a search engine you doubted those stations existed. I verified the fact by providing a site for you, which you apparently devoured: You might remind the state government to update their web pages ....but instead of saying "Thanks, Jeff; you were correct and I was wrong again," you hide your error by resorting to sarcasm: [if you also "lecture" in English, somebody rated you wrong] Always the same thing -- you're proved wrong but instead of admitting your error you play the attack again. One wonders how many times you've been divorced; I can't imagine that any woman would remain with you for long. Jeff KH6O -- Chief Petty Officer, U.S. Coast Guard Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System |
Kim wrote: Y'know, Dave, you're one sorry-assed *******. I post something to be just making an observation and you, oh...well, never mind. I've never seen you post anything unless it involves being a smartass. Take a look at the other posts...such as the one from Robert Casey. But then, it'd probably bore you, since he's being informative and conducting a nice excahnge in communication. Kim W5TIT Kim, he's not like that on the air. Maybe Dave should go back to giving out signal reports. |
"Dave Heil" wrote in message
... Do you have additional information about the "Intrastate" Highway System? Dave K8MN Depends on which "Intrastate" Highway you're speaking of, "Dave": http://www.co.palm-beach.fl.us/mpo/p...eds%20plan.pdf will get you some information on the Florida Intrastate Highway system; http://www.rtpnet.org/ncatr/htf_summary.html mentions something for North Carolina; If you'll take a look at fourth bullet on http://www.goodtimber.net/directions.html, they actually WARN of not getting confused between the INTRAstate and the INTERstate; In the second paragraph of SB 1166 on http://www.calcog.org/_private/SB%201166.htm, the last line mentions their INTERstate and INTRAstate highway system; I am sure there's more to the search at http://www.altavista.com/web/results...te&kgs=1&kls=0, but I don't have time to satisfy your curiosity. No, I don't tell all the fellas they're sorry-assed *******s. Only the sorry-assed *******s. So far, you are in a minority of...let me count...oh, yeah, ONE. Kim W5TIT |
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com... Kim wrote: Y'know, Dave, you're one sorry-assed *******. I post something to be just making an observation and you, oh...well, never mind. I've never seen you post anything unless it involves being a smartass. Take a look at the other posts...such as the one from Robert Casey. But then, it'd probably bore you, since he's being informative and conducting a nice excahnge in communication. Kim W5TIT Kim, he's not like that on the air. Maybe Dave should go back to giving out signal reports. Well, he'd need to learn the difference between an interstate and an intrastate first... Kim W5TIT |
Kim wrote:
"Dave Heil" wrote in message ... Do you have additional information about the "Intrastate" Highway System? Dave K8MN Depends on which "Intrastate" Highway you're speaking of, "Dave": http://www.co.palm-beach.fl.us/mpo/p...eds%20plan.pdf will get you some information on the Florida Intrastate Highway system; http://www.rtpnet.org/ncatr/htf_summary.html mentions something for North Carolina; If you'll take a look at fourth bullet on http://www.goodtimber.net/directions.html, they actually WARN of not getting confused between the INTRAstate and the INTERstate; In the second paragraph of SB 1166 on http://www.calcog.org/_private/SB%201166.htm, the last line mentions their INTERstate and INTRAstate highway system; I am sure there's more to the search at http://www.altavista.com/web/results...te&kgs=1&kls=0, but I don't have time to satisfy your curiosity. I know. You don't even have enough time to read the posts. Allow me to reinsert a statement I made to you the other day: "If it has a red, white and blue sign with I-something, I can assure you that it isn't part of the 'Intrastate'." Intrastate highways weren't under discussion (except by you). No, I don't tell all the fellas they're sorry-assed *******s. Only the sorry-assed *******s. So far, you are in a minority of...let me count...oh, yeah, ONE. Oh, I've read the nice things you've said to various folks here over the years. W4NTI and Larry Roll have been on your hit parade for ages. You don't have to play like I'm someone special. By the way, aren't you, Alec Baldwin and Clint Eastwood all supposed to be gone? Dave K8MN |
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