Lenof21 wrote:

All licensees are perfectly legal to continue operating in their grace
period.

Nope. Wrong. You are mistaken. Once an amateur's license expires,
he or she *cannot* legally operate until the is renewed.

To quote FCC rules:

"97.21(b) A person whose amateur station license grant has expired
may apply to the FCC for renewal of the license grant for another term
during a 2 year filing grace period. The application must be received
t the address specified above prior to the end of the grace period.
Unless and until the license grant is renewed, no privileges in this Part
are conferred."

Last sentence says it all: "Unless and until the license grant is renewed,
no privileges in this Part are conferred."

This isn't some fine point of the rules that's subject to interpretation.
FCC amateur licenses have 10 year terms, and if a license is allowed
to expire, the licensee *cannot* legally operate until the license is renewed.

Do you agree or disagree, Len?

There is no necessity (nor sense) to eliminate those in the
grace period from those in the normal 10-year license period from
any class totals.

Sure there is - their licenses are expired and they cannot operate.

If you want to include expired-but-in-the-grace-period licensees in
the totals, go right ahead. But be sure to indicate that you are doing
so, unless *you* want to "massage" the numbers.

The numbers I post twice each month are the totals of *unexpired*
licenses held by *individuals*. That's clear (to people who can
understand plain English) in every one of my post of license totals.
Nothing "massaged" about them.

To repeat, the allegation that there is a "big drop" in Technician
Class numbers is WRONG. Raw data doesn't show that.

What "raw data" have you examined, Len?

"hamdata.com" isn't "raw data".

Have you downloaded the FCC database? Processed it yourself?
Or do you simply take the numbers from a trusted website, same as
I do?

Implying that the allegation still exists is merely compounding the wrongness.

Who made such an allegation, Len?

The sum of *unexpired* Technicians and Technician Pluses *has* declined since
May of 2000.

Jim, N2EY

On 08 Jan 2005 21:31:53 GMT, N2EY wrote:

Lenof21 wrote:

All licensees are perfectly legal to continue operating in their grace
period.

Nope. Wrong. You are mistaken. Once an amateur's license expires,
he or she *cannot* legally operate until the is renewed.

Unless the renewal has been applied for before expiration. Then,
the license privileges continue until the FCC acts upon the application.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 15:36:59 -0800 (PST), "Phil Kane"
wrote:

On 08 Jan 2005 21:31:53 GMT, N2EY wrote:

Lenof21 wrote:

All licensees are perfectly legal to continue operating in their grace
period.

Nope. Wrong. You are mistaken. Once an amateur's license expires,
he or she *cannot* legally operate until the is renewed.

Unless the renewal has been applied for before expiration. Then,
the license privileges continue until the FCC acts upon the application.

Oh oh. An exception to the rule rears its ugly head.....

How could the J & M tag team possibly miss that one?

73, Leo.

Leo wrote:
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 15:36:59 -0800 (PST), "Phil Kane"
wrote:


On 08 Jan 2005 21:31:53 GMT, N2EY wrote:


Lenof21 wrote:


All licensees are perfectly legal to continue operating in their grace
period.

Nope. Wrong. You are mistaken. Once an amateur's license expires,
he or she *cannot* legally operate until the is renewed.

Unless the renewal has been applied for before expiration. Then,
the license privileges continue until the FCC acts upon the application.


Oh oh. An exception to the rule rears its ugly head.....


The exception that proves the rule, Leo.

Certainly such a procedure would be necessary, as there is a finite
period that it takes the FCC to grant the renewed license, and a finite
period of time that it takes to get to them. So a person that renews
their license on the last day will always go beyond the deadline,
especially if they mail their renewal in.

How could the J & M tag team possibly miss that one?

On the other hand, if the person waits one day *after* the license
expires, it is a different story, eh?


- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Leo
writes:

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 15:36:59 -0800 (PST), "Phil Kane"
wrote:

On 08 Jan 2005 21:31:53 GMT, N2EY wrote:

Lenof21 wrote:

All licensees are perfectly legal to continue operating in their grace
period.

Nope. Wrong. You are mistaken. Once an amateur's license expires,
he or she *cannot* legally operate until the is renewed.

Unless the renewal has been applied for before expiration. Then,
the license privileges continue until the FCC acts upon the application.

Oh oh. An exception to the rule rears its ugly head.....

How could the J & M tag team possibly miss that one?

Happy New Year, Leo...

Sure enough, the PCTA extras in here disregard the subject in order
to lambaste (and generally make nasty to) any NCTA about anything.
:-)

Doesn't matter if the NCTA are right or wrong (deliberately so in the
case suddenly become front-page news of sorts)...all NCTA are
targets of opportunity to be DISCREDITED by any means possible.

The "tag team" seems to think that all hams are always active on-
the-air as good "service personnel" (or something) during their valid
license period. Never mind that there are absences from the "service"
for many different reasons. The "grace period" insures that such
absence will not allow any licensee to lose their (apparently) so precious
tribal identification of a call sign. The call sign is "who we are" to
quote
one licensee in here some years ago. That would be especially true
for the Vanity calls. Licensees POSSESS their calls and those become
very, very personal.

In the USA I might even suggest that the FDA (Food and Drug
Administration) step in and help the FCC literally brand the granted
call sign on the physical person of the licensee, perhaps by a tatoo.
That might complete the process of the New Identity within the Tribe.
[why not? the FDA here certifies real hams ... :-) ]

The "new identity" is important since it bestows a rank/status/privilege
down here in a land without royals, no fancy titles or whatever. For
example, a Rhode Islander could, under older rules, suddenly become
a "resident" of Hawaii without even leaving the mainland. The arranger
of that was able to retitle hisself from junior college math teacher to
"mathematics lecturer in the university system." Neither one "did
anything wrong" according to them. But, a whole bunch of very phony
"radio club" calls got tossed in the dumpster by the FCC not too long
ago. Another fantasylander thought he had much more clout in the real
world than the U.S. aremed forces when he admonished another about
"permission to operate a radio" from Somalia when that individual served
in the military there. Yet another fantasylander keeps on bragging about
his military record ("seven hostile actions" without ever saying where or
when) and then trying to tear down others' real military records. Tsk.
Then we have the classic knowitall who never served at all making like
he knows more than Janes about USSR air power just because a real
veteran slipped up once in a message. There's still another "serviceman"
of the amateur corps who dines with aircraft carrier captains and looks
down his nose at those who've done real military HF communications
much more than he will have done in his lifetime. It's quite a collection!

Note: All those wonderful braggarts are PCTA extra. They can say
anything, write anything, do anything in here and are absolved from ANY
criticism. Should they be taken to task, the task-taker is soundly
objected to with endearing personal perjoratives having little to do with
the subject.

It's a plain simple fact that all NCTA in here are always wrong, no matter
what they write on anything. No one who is of the NCTA persuasion
should bother debating the subject in here. The matter is closed and all
NCTA are forever wrong, incorrect, and probably have underarm odor.

:-)

Lenof21 wrote:

In article , Leo
writes:


On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 15:36:59 -0800 (PST), "Phil Kane"
wrote:


On 08 Jan 2005 21:31:53 GMT, N2EY wrote:


Lenof21 wrote:


All licensees are perfectly legal to continue operating in their grace
period.

Nope. Wrong. You are mistaken. Once an amateur's license expires,
he or she *cannot* legally operate until the is renewed.

Unless the renewal has been applied for before expiration. Then,
the license privileges continue until the FCC acts upon the application.

Oh oh. An exception to the rule rears its ugly head.....

How could the J & M tag team possibly miss that one?


Happy New Year, Leo...

Sure enough, the PCTA extras in here disregard the subject in order
to lambaste (and generally make nasty to) any NCTA about anything.
:-)

Is disagreement with you making nasty to you?

Is pointing out a mistake making nasty to you?


Doesn't matter if the NCTA are right or wrong (deliberately so in the
case suddenly become front-page news of sorts)...all NCTA are
targets of opportunity to be DISCREDITED by any means possible.

hmm, sounds like a conspiracy...... 8^)

The "tag team" seems to think that all hams are always active on-
the-air as good "service personnel" (or something) during their valid
license period.

Who said that? I have a post in answer to you that would indicate that
I definitely do *not* think that way.


Never mind that there are absences from the "service"
for many different reasons. The "grace period" insures that such
absence will not allow any licensee to lose their (apparently) so precious
tribal identification of a call sign. The call sign is "who we are" to
quote
one licensee in here some years ago. That would be especially true
for the Vanity calls. Licensees POSSESS their calls and those become
very, very personal.

In the USA I might even suggest that the FDA (Food and Drug
Administration) step in and help the FCC literally brand the granted
call sign on the physical person of the licensee, perhaps by a tatoo.
That might complete the process of the New Identity within the Tribe.
[why not? the FDA here certifies real hams ... :-) ]

The "new identity" is important since it bestows a rank/status/privilege
down here in a land without royals, no fancy titles or whatever. For
example, a Rhode Islander could, under older rules, suddenly become
a "resident" of Hawaii without even leaving the mainland. The arranger
of that was able to retitle hisself from junior college math teacher to
"mathematics lecturer in the university system." Neither one "did
anything wrong" according to them. But, a whole bunch of very phony
"radio club" calls got tossed in the dumpster by the FCC not too long
ago. Another fantasylander thought he had much more clout in the real
world than the U.S. aremed forces when he admonished another about
"permission to operate a radio" from Somalia when that individual served
in the military there. Yet another fantasylander keeps on bragging about
his military record ("seven hostile actions" without ever saying where or
when) and then trying to tear down others' real military records. Tsk.
Then we have the classic knowitall who never served at all making like
he knows more than Janes about USSR air power just because a real
veteran slipped up once in a message. There's still another "serviceman"
of the amateur corps who dines with aircraft carrier captains and looks
down his nose at those who've done real military HF communications
much more than he will have done in his lifetime. It's quite a collection!

Note: All those wonderful braggarts are PCTA extra. They can say
anything, write anything, do anything in here and are absolved from ANY
criticism. Should they be taken to task, the task-taker is soundly
objected to with endearing personal perjoratives having little to do with
the subject.

It's a plain simple fact that all NCTA in here are always wrong, no matter
what they write on anything. No one who is of the NCTA persuasion
should bother debating the subject in here. The matter is closed and all
NCTA are forever wrong, incorrect, and probably have underarm odor.

Interesting post. It doe not negate the fact that you have been wrong
on several occasions. We all are at times. But it isn't "all NCTA's, or
even NCTNA's. But that is okay. No damage done.

You post indicates that you are pretty upset about this. Don't be mad
at yourself. Being wrong on a matter just means that the next time you
won't be.

Chin up! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Lenof21 wrote:

It's a plain simple fact that all NCTA in here are always wrong, no
matter
what they write on anything. No one who is of the NCTA persuasion
should bother debating the subject in here. The matter is closed and all
NCTA are forever wrong, incorrect, and probably have underarm odor.

Interesting post. It doe not negate the fact that you have been wrong
on several occasions.

ALL such occasions, Mikey. :-)

It's a plain simple fact. :-)

We all are at times.

Never if you are a PCTA!

PCTA are Keepers of the Flame (and of flame wars against NCTA).

PCTA are the Only sources of TRVTH in hamme raddio.

They keep on telling each other that...and being to believe it. Tsk.


You post indicates that you are pretty upset about this.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHhahahahahahahah

It's a plain simple fact...your posting indicates you are trying to mask
someone else's comment or applying some weird salesman oil that
you think will calm waters or you are just so damn dumb you can't
understand sarcasm when it's served up to you on gleaming silver.
I'll bet on the latter.

Everything went about 50K feet over your head.

You might research "401 alarm" a bit and understand. But, QST
didn't print anything about it so I doubt you would know it. It would
be allied with the code word "wildfire." Perhaps even "agricultural
station." :-)

at yourself. Being wrong on a matter just means that the next time you
won't be.

Silly boy, trying reverse sarcasm doesn't work either.

The plain simple fact is that I - or any NCTA - can post ANYTHING,
whether right, wrong, or off the wall, and the plain simple factotum
in here will go into a prissy negative critique, perhaps even a prolonged
hissy-fit of superiority. :-)

That's the plain simple facts of content of THIS newsgroup.

"Discussion" is out. Personal denigration is IN. For a prime-cut
example, see the Avenging Angle's posting this same morning.
That paragon of perpetual personal pejoratives whacked off more
of his PR charisma for the PCTA cause...and you LIKE that...

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Lenof21 wrote:


Sure enough, the PCTA extras in here disregard the subject in order
to lambaste (and generally make nasty to) any NCTA about anything.
:-)

Is disagreement with you making nasty to you?

Is pointing out a mistake making nasty to you?

Apparently, *any* disagreement with Len is
interpreted as "making nasty" by him.

Doesn't matter if the NCTA are right or wrong (deliberately so in the
case suddenly become front-page news of sorts)...all NCTA are
targets of opportunity to be DISCREDITED by any means possible.

hmm, sounds like a conspiracy...... 8^)

Can *all* amateurs with expired-but-in-the-grace-period
operate an amateur station *legally*?

The "tag team" seems to think that all hams are always active on-
the-air as good "service personnel" (or something) during their valid
license period.

Who said that? I have a post in answer to you that would indicate that
I definitely do *not* think that way.

Nor I. In fact, I gave several reasons why a ham might not renew in the
90 day window.

Never mind that there are absences from the "service"
for many different reasons. The "grace period" insures that such
absence will not allow any licensee to lose their (apparently) so
precious
tribal identification of a call sign. The call sign is "who we are" to
quote
one licensee in here some years ago. That would be especially true
for the Vanity calls. Licensees POSSESS their calls and those become
very, very personal.

Is that a bad thing?

In the USA I might even suggest that the FDA (Food and Drug
Administration) step in and help the FCC literally brand the granted
call sign on the physical person of the licensee, perhaps by a tatoo.
That might complete the process of the New Identity within the Tribe.
[why not? the FDA here certifies real hams ... :-) ]

Now who's "making nasty"?

The "new identity" is important since it bestows a rank/status/privilege
down here in a land without royals, no fancy titles or whatever.

What land is that?

For
example, a Rhode Islander could, under older rules, suddenly become
a "resident" of Hawaii without even leaving the mainland.

What relevance does that have to amateurs with expired licenses and
their operating privileges?

The arranger
of that was able to retitle hisself from junior college math teacher to
"mathematics lecturer in the university system."

Was that true or not?

Neither one "did
anything wrong" according to them. But, a whole bunch of very phony
"radio club" calls got tossed in the dumpster by the FCC not too long
ago.

And what relevance does that have to amateurs with expired licenses and
their operating privileges?

Another fantasylander thought he had much more clout in the real
world than the U.S. aremed forces when he admonished another about
"permission to operate a radio" from Somalia when that individual served
in the military there.

And what relevance does that have to amateurs with expired licenses and
their operating privileges?

Yet another fantasylander keeps on bragging
about
his military record ("seven hostile actions" without ever saying where
or
when) and then trying to tear down others' real military records. Tsk.

The problem is?

Then we have the classic knowitall who never served at all making like
he knows more than Janes about USSR air power just because a real
veteran slipped up once in a message.

Hmm...

Does that mean a civilian must never correct a mistake made by a military
veteran? If so, why not?

There's still another
"serviceman"
of the amateur corps who dines with aircraft carrier captains and looks
down his nose at those who've done real military HF communications
much more than he will have done in his lifetime.

It sounds like no one can measure up to Len's standards of what
a person must be to point out his mistakes.

It's quite a collection!

Note: All those wonderful braggarts are PCTA extra.

I think Len is mistaken about that.

They can say
anything, write anything, do anything in here and are absolved from ANY
criticism.

By whom?

Should they be taken to task, the task-taker is soundly
objected to with endearing personal perjoratives having little to do
with the subject.

Does this include phrases like

'shut the hell up, you little USMC feldwebel'?

Do any of the above people have names?
Amateur radio callsigns?

Is there some reason Len cannot bring himself to call people
by their names or calls?

It's a plain simple fact that all NCTA in here are always wrong, no
matter
what they write on anything.

That's clearly untrue.

No one who is of the NCTA persuasion
should bother debating the subject in here. The matter is closed and
all
NCTA are forever wrong, incorrect, and probably have underarm odor.

More nonsense from Len.

Interesting post. It doe not negate the fact that you have been wrong
on several occasions. We all are at times. But it isn't "all NCTA's, or
even NCTNA's. But that is okay. No damage done.

You post indicates that you are pretty upset about this. Don't be mad
at yourself. Being wrong on a matter just means that the next time you
won't be.

Chin up! 8^)

Good advice, Mike. But it seems that Len simply cannot tolerate
having his mistakes pointed out.

73 de Jim, N2EY

On 09 Jan 2005 04:51:35 GMT, (Lenof21) wrote:

In article , Leo
writes:

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 15:36:59 -0800 (PST), "Phil Kane"
wrote:

On 08 Jan 2005 21:31:53 GMT, N2EY wrote:

Lenof21 wrote:

All licensees are perfectly legal to continue operating in their grace
period.

Nope. Wrong. You are mistaken. Once an amateur's license expires,
he or she *cannot* legally operate until the is renewed.

Unless the renewal has been applied for before expiration. Then,
the license privileges continue until the FCC acts upon the application.

Oh oh. An exception to the rule rears its ugly head.....

How could the J & M tag team possibly miss that one?

Happy New Year, Leo...

Thanks - you too, Len!

Sure enough, the PCTA extras in here disregard the subject in order
to lambaste (and generally make nasty to) any NCTA about anything.
:-)

Some even enter a batch of posts on a variety of subjects, apparently
hoping to get sonething on the hook.......what's the word for that
again...?


Doesn't matter if the NCTA are right or wrong (deliberately so in the
case suddenly become front-page news of sorts)...all NCTA are
targets of opportunity to be DISCREDITED by any means possible.

The "tag team" seems to think that all hams are always active on-
the-air as good "service personnel" (or something) during their valid
license period. Never mind that there are absences from the "service"
for many different reasons. The "grace period" insures that such
absence will not allow any licensee to lose their (apparently) so precious
tribal identification of a call sign. The call sign is "who we are" to
quote
one licensee in here some years ago. That would be especially true
for the Vanity calls. Licensees POSSESS their calls and those become
very, very personal.

That's true even more so up here in the (currently) frozen North -
licenses and call signs are issued to Canadian hams for life, no
renewal required. The call sign is protected for a year after you SK,
to allow a family member to qualify and acquire it.

No bureaucracy, no renewals, no paperwork, no grace period required -
unless you break the law and lose it, or move to a new province (the
call sign doesn't follow you around the country like they do in the
States), you'll expire long before it does


In the USA I might even suggest that the FDA (Food and Drug
Administration) step in and help the FCC literally brand the granted
call sign on the physical person of the licensee, perhaps by a tatoo.
That might complete the process of the New Identity within the Tribe.
[why not? the FDA here certifies real hams ... :-) ]

A good application for the microchip, perhaps - technology proven in
the Veterinary world for quite a few years now....?


The "new identity" is important since it bestows a rank/status/privilege
down here in a land without royals, no fancy titles or whatever. For
example, a Rhode Islander could, under older rules, suddenly become
a "resident" of Hawaii without even leaving the mainland. The arranger
of that was able to retitle hisself from junior college math teacher to
"mathematics lecturer in the university system." Neither one "did
anything wrong" according to them. But, a whole bunch of very phony
"radio club" calls got tossed in the dumpster by the FCC not too long
ago. Another fantasylander thought he had much more clout in the real
world than the U.S. aremed forces when he admonished another about
"permission to operate a radio" from Somalia when that individual served
in the military there. Yet another fantasylander keeps on bragging about
his military record ("seven hostile actions" without ever saying where or
when) and then trying to tear down others' real military records. Tsk.
Then we have the classic knowitall who never served at all making like
he knows more than Janes about USSR air power just because a real
veteran slipped up once in a message. There's still another "serviceman"
of the amateur corps who dines with aircraft carrier captains and looks
down his nose at those who've done real military HF communications
much more than he will have done in his lifetime. It's quite a collection!

It sure is.....engineers who have problems with basic math,
thinly-veiled trolls looking to provoke fights.....

It's a wonderful microcosm in here indeed. Of what, specifically, I'm
not quite sure!


Note: All those wonderful braggarts are PCTA extra. They can say
anything, write anything, do anything in here and are absolved from ANY
criticism. Should they be taken to task, the task-taker is soundly
objected to with endearing personal perjoratives having little to do with
the subject.

Ipso facto, with a few exceptions - there are several OMs here who are
quite civil, knowledgeable and conversational, and do not possess the
NetNanny gene.....


It's a plain simple fact that all NCTA in here are always wrong, no matter
what they write on anything. No one who is of the NCTA persuasion
should bother debating the subject in here. The matter is closed and all
NCTA are forever wrong, incorrect, and probably have underarm odor.

......and skinned knuckles!

Note that it isn't always a PCTA / NCTA thing, though - we've seen
recent battles between folks of a similar stripe, simply because they
disagree on some arcane point. These disputes are just as vitriolic,
nasty and profane as any of the 'standard' ones here in the group!

But, after all, what's more important than Always Being Right About
Everything?


:-)



73, Leo

Leo wrote:

On 09 Jan 2005 04:51:35 GMT, (Lenof21) wrote:


In article , Leo
writes:


On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 15:36:59 -0800 (PST), "Phil Kane"
wrote:


On 08 Jan 2005 21:31:53 GMT, N2EY wrote:


Lenof21 wrote:


All licensees are perfectly legal to continue operating in their grace
period.

Nope. Wrong. You are mistaken. Once an amateur's license expires,
he or she *cannot* legally operate until the is renewed.

Unless the renewal has been applied for before expiration. Then,
the license privileges continue until the FCC acts upon the application.

Oh oh. An exception to the rule rears its ugly head.....

How could the J & M tag team possibly miss that one?

Happy New Year, Leo...


Thanks - you too, Len!

Sure enough, the PCTA extras in here disregard the subject in order
to lambaste (and generally make nasty to) any NCTA about anything.
:-)


Some even enter a batch of posts on a variety of subjects, apparently
hoping to get sonething on the hook.......what's the word for that
again...?

To imagine anyone on Usenet would do that. 8^)



Doesn't matter if the NCTA are right or wrong (deliberately so in the
case suddenly become front-page news of sorts)...all NCTA are
targets of opportunity to be DISCREDITED by any means possible.

The "tag team" seems to think that all hams are always active on-
the-air as good "service personnel" (or something) during their valid
license period. Never mind that there are absences from the "service"
for many different reasons. The "grace period" insures that such
absence will not allow any licensee to lose their (apparently) so precious
tribal identification of a call sign. The call sign is "who we are" to
quote
one licensee in here some years ago. That would be especially true
for the Vanity calls. Licensees POSSESS their calls and those become
very, very personal.


That's true even more so up here in the (currently) frozen North -
licenses and call signs are issued to Canadian hams for life, no
renewal required. The call sign is protected for a year after you SK,
to allow a family member to qualify and acquire it.

That is a good way to do it.

No bureaucracy, no renewals, no paperwork, no grace period required -
unless you break the law and lose it, or move to a new province (the
call sign doesn't follow you around the country like they do in the
States), you'll expire long before it does


And in the end it is just a different system, some parts a lot better,
like lifetime license, and some parts worse, such as the mandatory
callsign by district (though some will prefer that)


In the USA I might even suggest that the FDA (Food and Drug
Administration) step in and help the FCC literally brand the granted
call sign on the physical person of the licensee, perhaps by a tatoo.
That might complete the process of the New Identity within the Tribe.
[why not? the FDA here certifies real hams ... :-) ]


A good application for the microchip, perhaps - technology proven in
the Veterinary world for quite a few years now....?


The "new identity" is important since it bestows a rank/status/privilege
down here in a land without royals, no fancy titles or whatever. For
example, a Rhode Islander could, under older rules, suddenly become
a "resident" of Hawaii without even leaving the mainland. The arranger
of that was able to retitle hisself from junior college math teacher to
"mathematics lecturer in the university system." Neither one "did
anything wrong" according to them. But, a whole bunch of very phony
"radio club" calls got tossed in the dumpster by the FCC not too long
ago. Another fantasylander thought he had much more clout in the real
world than the U.S. aremed forces when he admonished another about
"permission to operate a radio" from Somalia when that individual served
in the military there. Yet another fantasylander keeps on bragging about
his military record ("seven hostile actions" without ever saying where or
when) and then trying to tear down others' real military records. Tsk.
Then we have the classic knowitall who never served at all making like
he knows more than Janes about USSR air power just because a real
veteran slipped up once in a message. There's still another "serviceman"
of the amateur corps who dines with aircraft carrier captains and looks
down his nose at those who've done real military HF communications
much more than he will have done in his lifetime. It's quite a collection!


It sure is.....engineers who have problems with basic math,
thinly-veiled trolls looking to provoke fights.....

Yeah, there are all kinds in here..........

It's a wonderful microcosm in here indeed. Of what, specifically, I'm
not quite sure!

Some people used to call me MicroCosm........ 8^)


Note: All those wonderful braggarts are PCTA extra. They can say
anything, write anything, do anything in here and are absolved from ANY
criticism. Should they be taken to task, the task-taker is soundly
objected to with endearing personal perjoratives having little to do with
the subject.


Ipso facto, with a few exceptions - there are several OMs here who are
quite civil, knowledgeable and conversational, and do not possess the
NetNanny gene.....


It's a plain simple fact that all NCTA in here are always wrong, no matter
what they write on anything. No one who is of the NCTA persuasion
should bother debating the subject in here. The matter is closed and all
NCTA are forever wrong, incorrect, and probably have underarm odor.


.....and skinned knuckles!

Here's a challenge, Leo, if you're up to it.

Name the PCTA's in here (active) that have called NCTA's by such names.
I'll give you a start:

Steve is pretty famous for name calling.

And since this subthread turned into a Mike and Jim "tag-team" thing,
where do our names show up in that list? When have I called anyone a
nasty name? I don't think Jim ever has either.

note: I will admit the one time I called Len "Lennie". No insult was
intended, but he didn't like it, so I stopped.




Note that it isn't always a PCTA / NCTA thing, though - we've seen
recent battles between folks of a similar stripe, simply because they
disagree on some arcane point. These disputes are just as vitriolic,
nasty and profane as any of the 'standard' ones here in the group!

Agreed. So it is more about personalities than PCTA/NCTA/NCTNA in my
estimation.


But, after all, what's more important than Always Being Right About
Everything?

Most of the time, if I think I am wrong about something, I'm not likely
to argue about it. YMMV! 8^)


It is pretty much a voluntary thing to post in this group. I don't know
of anyone that is required by law or employment to be here. If people
are thin skinned, they might want to examine why they hang out in such a
rough neighborhood. Otherwise, make a mistake, note it, and get on with
life.

- Mike KB3EIA -