Morse key/keyer question (OT)
 

Hey all,

I'm having an situation with my Keyer/Key setup.

Every once in a while, I'll get a double when I shouldn't. It's usually
on the dit side.

The key is a home-brew Iambic. The radio is an IC-745. THe contacts have
been cleaned, to no avail.

Anyone have a similar situation or know if this may have been an issue
with the 745? I'm going to try a few experiments, but any help is
appreciated.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
Hey all,

I'm having an situation with my Keyer/Key setup.

Every once in a while, I'll get a double when I shouldn't. It's
usually
on the dit side.

The key is a home-brew Iambic. The radio is an IC-745. THe contacts
have
been cleaned, to no avail.

Anyone have a similar situation or know if this may have been an
issue
with the 745? I'm going to try a few experiments, but any help is
appreciated.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike, that only goes to show that you just can't rely on that
new-fangled stuff. What if Paul Revere were waiting for the signal,
"One if by land, Two if by sea," and you sent him a double instead of a
single. American history would have been changed. Stick to manually
formed dits and dahs.

bb wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

Hey all,

I'm having an situation with my Keyer/Key setup.

Every once in a while, I'll get a double when I shouldn't. It's

usually

on the dit side.

The key is a home-brew Iambic. The radio is an IC-745. THe contacts

have

been cleaned, to no avail.

Anyone have a similar situation or know if this may have been an

issue

with the 745? I'm going to try a few experiments, but any help is
appreciated.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Mike, that only goes to show that you just can't rely on that
new-fangled stuff. What if Paul Revere were waiting for the signal,
"One if by land, Two if by sea," and you sent him a double instead of a
single. American history would have been changed. Stick to manually
formed dits and dahs.

hehe, shows the importance of having working equipment, eh?

- Mike KB3EIA -

I have that problem occaisionally with a bencher single paddle key
and increasing the spacing between the points and adding a little more
spring tension solves the problem.

I like the contact spacing paper thin, but when it is too thin -- may cause
a double bounce.

Yes Bencher does make a single paddle key -- looks like the Iambic with two
paddles -- but functions as a single paddle key.

URL:
http://www.bencher.com/radioequip.html#keys
The ST Series
--
Caveat Lector



Someone wrote
Hey all,

I'm having an situation with my Keyer/Key setup.

Every once in a while, I'll get a double when I shouldn't. It's

usually

on the dit side.

The key is a home-brew Iambic. The radio is an IC-745. THe contacts

have

been cleaned, to no avail.

Anyone have a similar situation or know if this may have been an

issue

with the 745? I'm going to try a few experiments, but any help is
appreciated.

Caveat Lector wrote:

I have that problem occaisionally with a bencher single paddle key
and increasing the spacing between the points and adding a little more
spring tension solves the problem.

I'll try that. There is an adjustment spring, but perhaps it is a
little weak and should be replaced.

I like the contact spacing paper thin, but when it is too thin -- may cause
a double bounce.

Yes Bencher does make a single paddle key -- looks like the Iambic with two
paddles -- but functions as a single paddle key.

That sort of key sounds logical to me. Although I'm starting to "get"
the Iambic, it still seems a little strange. I should probable see if I
et a little better before switching again.

Thanks, Mike KB3EIA -

Most of the CW ops I know prefer the Iambic keys.

I just spent many hours on a Navy straight key so kept with what felt
comfortable.


--
Caveat Lector



"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Caveat Lector wrote:

I have that problem occaisionally with a bencher single paddle key
and increasing the spacing between the points and adding a little more
spring tension solves the problem.

I'll try that. There is an adjustment spring, but perhaps it is a little
weak and should be replaced.

I like the contact spacing paper thin, but when it is too thin -- may
cause a double bounce.

Yes Bencher does make a single paddle key -- looks like the Iambic with
two paddles -- but functions as a single paddle key.

That sort of key sounds logical to me. Although I'm starting to "get" the
Iambic, it still seems a little strange. I should probable see if I et a
little better before switching again.

Thanks, Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
Caveat Lector wrote:

I have that problem occaisionally with a bencher single paddle key
and increasing the spacing between the points and adding a little
more
spring tension solves the problem.

I'll try that. There is an adjustment spring, but perhaps it is a
little weak and should be replaced.

I like the contact spacing paper thin, but when it is too thin --
may cause
a double bounce.

Yes Bencher does make a single paddle key -- looks like the Iambic
with two
paddles -- but functions as a single paddle key.

That sort of key sounds logical to me. Although I'm starting to
"get"
the Iambic, it still seems a little strange. I should probable see if
I
et a little better before switching again.

Thanks, Mike KB3EIA -

Indeed they are strange. That's why I'm not big on lambics, but I do
enjoy a trappist on ocassion. My preferences lean toward wheats and
pales, and kolsch if I want a lager.

bb wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

Caveat Lector wrote:


I have that problem occaisionally with a bencher single paddle key
and increasing the spacing between the points and adding a little

more

spring tension solves the problem.

I'll try that. There is an adjustment spring, but perhaps it is a
little weak and should be replaced.


I like the contact spacing paper thin, but when it is too thin --

may cause

a double bounce.

Yes Bencher does make a single paddle key -- looks like the Iambic

with two

paddles -- but functions as a single paddle key.

That sort of key sounds logical to me. Although I'm starting to

"get"

the Iambic, it still seems a little strange. I should probable see if

I

et a little better before switching again.

Thanks, Mike KB3EIA -


Indeed they are strange. That's why I'm not big on lambics, but I do
enjoy a trappist on ocassion. My preferences lean toward wheats and
pales, and kolsch if I want a lager.

I must confess to a weakness for the Chimay line. I was working at MIT
offsite a few years back, and there was a wonderful restaurant in
Cambrige Square - The Wurst House - where we would go for dinner often.
We'd often split a bottle, one per two people. Unfortunately, the Wurst
house is gone...8^(

Otherwise, I like a good wheat such as Franziskaner. A Kolsch is also
enjoyed.

I haven't made a pale in a while, in fact the first one I did was an
accident. I something like tripled the amount of hops in a brew I made.
Almost threw the batch away after the first swig. By the time I was
finished with the batch, I was a true believer in Hops!

I also brewed my first successful wheat beer this fall. I am pretty
pleased with it. Light and a good bit of flavor at the same time. A
partial mash.

If you ever do make it to Dayton, we should exchange a few bottles.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Caveat Lector wrote:
Most of the CW ops I know prefer the Iambic keys.

I just spent many hours on a Navy straight key so kept with what felt

comfortable.

Last year I sat in on a "huge gun" multi-op CW DX contest station
operation for a few hours and somewhat to my amazement all positions
were using single-paddle Kent keys. I thought for years that iambic
paddles ruled. Wrong. Which got me to thinking . . .

I've been using "iambic" paddles since around 1965 when I built one out
of a pair of back-to-back J-38 type straight keys. After all these
years it's finally dawning on me that I've never done much if any real
"squeeze keying", I'm still using paddles like I usta use bugs. So I
plan to equip myself with a single paddle "electric bug" and give it a
whirl.

Begs a question in my mind . . is real iambic squeeze keying actually
more like mythology than it is fact? Have we been behaving like sheep
or is it just us old farts who cut our teeth on bugs . . ?

--
Caveat Lector

w3rv



"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Caveat Lector wrote:

I have that problem occaisionally with a bencher single paddle key
and increasing the spacing between the points and adding a little
more
spring tension solves the problem.

I'll try that. There is an adjustment spring, but perhaps it is a
little
weak and should be replaced.

I like the contact spacing paper thin, but when it is too thin --
may
cause a double bounce.

Yes Bencher does make a single paddle key -- looks like the Iambic
with
two paddles -- but functions as a single paddle key.

That sort of key sounds logical to me. Although I'm starting to
"get" the
Iambic, it still seems a little strange. I should probable see if I
et a
little better before switching again.

Thanks, Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
bb wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

Caveat Lector wrote:


I have that problem occaisionally with a bencher single paddle key
and increasing the spacing between the points and adding a little

more

spring tension solves the problem.

I'll try that. There is an adjustment spring, but perhaps it is a
little weak and should be replaced.


I like the contact spacing paper thin, but when it is too thin --

may cause

a double bounce.

Yes Bencher does make a single paddle key -- looks like the Iambic

with two

paddles -- but functions as a single paddle key.

That sort of key sounds logical to me. Although I'm starting to

"get"

the Iambic, it still seems a little strange. I should probable see
if

I

et a little better before switching again.

Thanks, Mike KB3EIA -


Indeed they are strange. That's why I'm not big on lambics, but I
do
enjoy a trappist on ocassion. My preferences lean toward wheats
and
pales, and kolsch if I want a lager.

I must confess to a weakness for the Chimay line. I was working at
MIT
offsite a few years back, and there was a wonderful restaurant in
Cambrige Square - The Wurst House - where we would go for dinner
often.
We'd often split a bottle, one per two people. Unfortunately, the
Wurst
house is gone...8^(

Chimay is something special. I don't know how they came upon the "Red,
White, and Blue" theme, but I like that too. For some reason I've
retained about two cases of bottles in my garage for refill, but I'm
not sure that I'll cork them. I believe that I can get a special
european bottle cap that will fit them,

Otherwise, I like a good wheat such as Franziskaner. A Kolsch is
also
enjoyed.

Most of the wheats I've had are domestic with the exception of the few
days I spent at Ramstein awaiting to go into Somalia.

I haven't made a pale in a while, in fact the first one I did was an

accident. I something like tripled the amount of hops in a brew I
made.
Almost threw the batch away after the first swig. By the time I was
finished with the batch, I was a true believer in Hops!

When I stick to noble hops and don't add them too late, i.e., after the
last 15 minutes of the boil in my opinion, I can handle a lot of
bitterness. I just get tired of all the overhopped, green
grassy-tasting, APAs.

I also brewed my first successful wheat beer this fall. I am pretty
pleased with it. Light and a good bit of flavor at the same time. A
partial mash.

Wheats and pales are my favorites, and wheats really hit the spot after
cutting the grass. I've concentrated on wine making over the last 1.5
years, and my beer selection is non-existant. My son and I brewed up
some "stone ale" with everything we had left over. It's still in the
carboys.

If you ever do make it to Dayton, we should exchange a few bottles.

- Mike KB3EIA -


I'd like that.

Since moving to Ohio, I always have to play Dayton by ear. It always
lands in my first spraying contract. I managed to get that weekend off
last year because of a lack of overtime money. But then it coincided
with a Scout campout. For me, April made it easier to get to.

Hey, if you want to bring me up to speed on your balloon project, drop
me a note to my real email acount, .

bb

bb wrote:

Since moving to Ohio, I always have to play Dayton by ear.

I've generally used the sheet music, though I improvise a bit on the
chorus.

If you'd like to discuss it further, drop me a note to my real email
acount, lastnamefirstmi@hotmailcom.

Dave K8MN

Ah interesting on the single paddle ops at the big contest station. Quite
the opposite in several contest stations here.

Some comments on Iambic keying.

Iambic ops claim "Overall, single lever paddles take more mechanical motion
to send characters than an iambic paddle."

"Expert ops can send continuously without leaving their fingers off the
paddles, so perhaps it is best described as a touch-squeeze keying
technique."



Be aware there are two different modes of Iambic operation - type A and type
B. When a squeeze is released during an element (dot or dash), type "B" adds
the opposite element. Type "A" just finishes the element in progress and
does not produce a following alternate element. For example, in Type "A"
Iambic, a squeeze release during the "dah" in the letter A will produce "dit
dah" (A). In Type "B" Iambic, a squeeze release during the "dah" in the
letter A will produce "dit dah dit" (R). That is if the left paddle is still
depressed at the half-way point of the dah.



My buddy - a top contester sez "So Iambic takes delicate practice, but after
a while the finger-brain activity becomes second nature and it will be as
easy as single paddle or straight key sending, but a lot less tiring and it
is probably the fastest keying method."



I am a single paddle guy, so can't attest to the Iambic preference. but I am
not a top contester (;-)



For those interested in where Iambic came from, here is the best opinions.



Iamb dates back to ancient Greek poetry. Iamb is a term from literature
meaning a two-syllable rhythm. An "iamb" consists of two syllables. It may
be two separate words, one word with two syllables, or even a portion of a
multi-syllable word. But the important thing is that each of the two
syllables has a different "accent." Sometimes the accent is called a SHORT/
LONG. That means, the first word comes quickly off the mouth when spoken;
the second word actually sounds for a longer time. So somewhere along the
line someone dubbed the squeeze key method of sending Morse characters as
Iambic, perhaps because of the short/long (dit/dah) aspect.





Caveat Lector




wrote in message
oups.com...

Caveat Lector wrote:
Most of the CW ops I know prefer the Iambic keys.

I just spent many hours on a Navy straight key so kept with what felt

comfortable.

Last year I sat in on a "huge gun" multi-op CW DX contest station
operation for a few hours and somewhat to my amazement all positions
were using single-paddle Kent keys. I thought for years that iambic
paddles ruled. Wrong. Which got me to thinking . . .

I've been using "iambic" paddles since around 1965 when I built one out
of a pair of back-to-back J-38 type straight keys. After all these
years it's finally dawning on me that I've never done much if any real
"squeeze keying", I'm still using paddles like I usta use bugs. So I
plan to equip myself with a single paddle "electric bug" and give it a
whirl.

Begs a question in my mind . . is real iambic squeeze keying actually
more like mythology than it is fact? Have we been behaving like sheep
or is it just us old farts who cut our teeth on bugs . . ?

--
Caveat Lector

w3rv



"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Caveat Lector wrote:

I have that problem occaisionally with a bencher single paddle key
and increasing the spacing between the points and adding a little
more
spring tension solves the problem.

I'll try that. There is an adjustment spring, but perhaps it is a
little
weak and should be replaced.

I like the contact spacing paper thin, but when it is too thin --
may
cause a double bounce.

Yes Bencher does make a single paddle key -- looks like the Iambic
with
two paddles -- but functions as a single paddle key.

That sort of key sounds logical to me. Although I'm starting to
"get" the
Iambic, it still seems a little strange. I should probable see if I
et a
little better before switching again.

Thanks, Mike KB3EIA -

Caveat Lector wrote:
Ah interesting on the single paddle ops at the big contest station.
Quite
the opposite in several contest stations here.

Some of it might involve the demographics of that particular crew, it's
a bunch of geezers.

Some comments on Iambic keying.

Iambic ops claim "Overall, single lever paddles take more mechanical
motion
to send characters than an iambic paddle."

But only if the user actually using iambic keying with a twin-paddle
key. Which I don't think I'm doing. It's all deeply buried unconcoius
reflexes, it just "happens". Looney!


"Expert ops can send continuously without leaving their fingers off
the
paddles, so perhaps it is best described as a touch-squeeze keying
technique."

OK . .


Be aware there are two different modes of Iambic operation - type A
and type
B. When a squeeze is released during an element (dot or dash), type
"B" adds
the opposite element. Type "A" just finishes the element in progress
and
does not produce a following alternate element. For example, in Type
"A"
Iambic, a squeeze release during the "dah" in the letter A will
produce "dit
dah" (A). In Type "B" Iambic, a squeeze release during the "dah" in
the
letter A will produce "dit dah dit" (R). That is if the left paddle
is still
depressed at the half-way point of the dah.

I was aware of all of all this four decades ago. Problem is that
there's a huge difference between "being aware of" and actually digging
into it and learning how to do it. Which I never much bothered with
then and haven't even thought about until very recently.

Ball = Dropped. Thanks for the details on Modes A & B, they'll help.


My buddy - a top contester sez "So Iambic takes delicate practice,
but after
a while the finger-brain activity becomes second nature and it will
be as
easy as single paddle or straight key sending, but a lot less tiring
and it
is probably the fastest keying method."

Manual keying during contests is rapidly becoming an anachronism given
the current crop of computer logging programs. Virtually all of the CW
transmitted by the serious contesters during the contests is coming out
of their programmed keyboard function keys. Even worse, depending on
yer perspective, the current thrust is toward getting away from having
to remember what function key transmits what and just mousing &
clicking on the required line of text on the tube. No J-38s, no bugs,
no paddles, no nuttin', just the mouse . . how tiring is THAT?? Maybe
paddles are another piece which have seen their day and are on their
way onto the collector's shelves as far as CW contesting goes.


I am a single paddle guy, so can't attest to the Iambic preference.
but I am
not a top contester (;-)

This bunch of paddle slappers is a collection of world-class DX
contesters. Puzzlement.


For those interested in where Iambic came from, here is the best
opinions.

Iamb dates back to ancient Greek poetry. Iamb is a term from
literature
meaning a two-syllable rhythm. An "iamb" consists of two syllables.
It may
be two separate words, one word with two syllables, or even a portion
of a
multi-syllable word. But the important thing is that each of the two
syllables has a different "accent." Sometimes the accent is called a
SHORT/
LONG. That means, the first word comes quickly off the mouth when
spoken;
the second word actually sounds for a longer time. So somewhere along
the
line someone dubbed the squeeze key method of sending Morse
characters as
Iambic, perhaps because of the short/long (dit/dah) aspect.

Right outta ninth grade poerty class, iambic pentameter and all that .
.. Di DAH, di DAH, di DAH . .

.. . humpf . . ! Heh . . .

At this late date I'm compelled to go back and review the way my
fingers are creating the dots n' dashes which crawl up the coax and out
to into the ether. Give modes A & B a fair, hard look forty years late,
try a single lever paddle on the air where it really matters, etc.
Worthwile winter project.


Caveat Lector

w3rv

Dave Heil wrote:
bb wrote:

Since moving to Ohio, I always have to play Dayton by ear.

I've generally used the sheet music, though I improvise a bit on the
chorus.

twit

bb wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:
bb wrote:

Since moving to Ohio, I always have to play Dayton by ear.

I've generally used the sheet music, though I improvise a bit on the
chorus.

twit

Tweet.

Dave K8MN