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Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: wrote: True. It would probably not fly either in the land of entitlements. Where is the "land of entitlements"? Sweden? Bad question to ask me, since I would prefer more privilege differences between General and Extra Me too, but that's not how FCC has implemented it. (Len will no doubt have interesting comments on that one) Len's comments are rarely if ever interesting, IMHO. Error-laden, yes, but not interesting. I concede the point! 8^) ;-) If the nocodetest folks in the USA proposed options like those they might get a lot more support. But instead, we have folks like NCVEC telling us we must drop code *and* reduce the written still more. And how! Let's not forget that NCI also supports lowering the test requirements. So do others that support automatic upgrades. In principle I oppose automatic upgrades Me too. Point is, reducing the requirements hasn't promoted growth. Recall that before April 2000, the Tech required passing two written tests totalling 65 questions. Now it's a single 35 question test - yet we don't see growth! My own take on the situation is that there are indeed new people coming into the hobby, as I hear and see new licensees on the air. Yep. Same here. But we are not seeing significant growth. Many of the people that signed on ten years ago have left. There are some ham related reasons, and some not, such as increased cell phone usage, which has decimated the "honeydew" Hams. There's also the sad fact of things like hams becoming SKs and moving into nursing homes, etc. Back in the '50s and '60s, and maybe even into the '70s, almost all new hams were teenagers or young adults. Young people still make up a good percentage of new hams, but since about the mid-late 1970s we've seen an increasing percentage of older people as newcomers. Indeed, back in the early 1980s - *before* the Tech lost its code test - there was (and still is) a surge of retired and almost-retired folks in these parts getting ham licenses. Lots of new faces and lots of great hams, but unfortunately most of them won't be hams long enough to join OOTC. But it is indisputable that the reductions in requirements have NOT had any sort of significant positive impact on the Ham community. Not long-term, anyway. Despite the hand wringing, there is a place for achieving something that means something. A test that is a challenge? So what? I personally think that the ARS is only strengthened by attracting people that enjoy a bit of a challenge. That's a key point. I think it has been adequately proven that many if not most of the people that think that Element one needs to go away are also in favor of reduced overall licensing requirements. Certainly the leading organization for removal of the Morse test is. Yep. And if Element 1 is removed, and we still don't get growth, guess what's next? NCVEC has already shown their hand. Note that almost 5 years after the 200 restructuring we still retain more than 50% of Novices and 75% of Advanceds. This indicates to me a significant number of inactive hams. Sure, there are some who are satisfied with their license privs, but I suspect a lot more are SK or have dropped out. The number of Techs continues to grow in part because all Tech Pluses have been renewed as Techs since April 2000. But the total number of Techs and Tech Pluses is s few percent lower than it was in 2000. Agreed! But of course people have to know what ham radio *is* to do that! Someone suggested some short commercial spots on time. "on time"? Typo! "one" time... I wonder if that has ever been done. Nothing too elaborate, just getting the name out there. Good idea, but expensive. Seems like there are Hams that are professionals in the field that might be willing to help!...... Still have to buy the time. Yet the NCVEC folks say the solution is to create a class of ham that can't use rigs with more than 30 volts on the electronics... Goofy, goofy, goofy! Tell it to NCVEC. They think they know better than you. From what I gather, their underlying concern was actually that they think their VE's were having to work too hard. Perhaps. Also, the "Amateur Radio in the 21st Century" paper equated passing the code test with winning the Tour de France or painting the Mona Lisa, and described the stress of dealing with grown people crying because they'd flunked the code test....boo-hoo.... And it is the wrong approach. The proper approach is to allow access coupled with adequate education. Watta concept! Probably hopeless though! 8^) Not unless we stop opposing bad ideas. Shrub says hydrogen is the answer. Oh the humanity. Hydrogen's energy density issues make for some problems. That Excursion will have to tack on another 10 miles per hour on trips to make up for all the fuel stops needed. Naw, just liquefy the stuff. The big problems a - Handling a fuel that is a gas at STP is more complex than one that is a liquid. - Danger of fire and leaking pressure tanks - Where's all the hydrogen supposed to come from? You mean like dragging the gay marriage issue into the Social Security problem? 8^) Yep. The interesting thing is that allowing gay civil unions would *increase* tax revenue. And speaking of marriage: One thing I find interesting is that the divorce rates in the "red" states are consistently and clearly higher than the rates in "blue" states. Seems those folks who rant and rave about "family values" and "covenants" can't seem to stay hitched very long. All you have to do is meet some of the "reds", and you'll immediately understand why they have such a high divorce rate...... Ya gotta be more specific than that! Here's the kind of thinking being put forth: One plan being suggested in DC is for the USA to create a special savings account for each baby born in the USA, starting on a certain date. The Feds would put $2000 into each account each year until the kid reaches 18. Total investment $36,000. Assuming about 6% annual interest, each account would be worth over a million dollars when the "baby" reached 65. Nice retirement package, huh? Except it won't work for several reasons completely obvious to anyone with common sense. Who pays that 6 percent interest? That's the first problem. The last time I checked, the rate wasn't anywhere near that. Bingo! Taxes on that money? Capital gains? The money would be tax exempt until the person began to draw upon it. Inflation? That's a BIG one! ~30 years ago, when I was entering the job market out of college, entry-level engineers with degrees were making about what *minimum wage* is now. Go back 50 years, and a $5000/yr income put the average person on Easy Street, able to support a middle-class family in a way that $50,000/yr won't do today. Even if inflation stays low over the next 65 years, $1 million won't be enough to retire on. What really matters, of course, is what I call "differential interest" - the difference between inflation and the apparent interest rate. If you get interest of 6% and inflation of 2%, your money is really only growing at a rate of 4%. Your going to have to have some sort of way that the guvmint pays interest on the account when the prime is low, or you will be creating a powerful incentive for citizens to want a high interest rate which is counterproductive to the economy......The list goes on and on. Yep. Also interesting how everyone in the US will retire a millionaire! Sounds good until the reality cuts in. There are lots of millionaires today - on paper anyway. Ain't gonna work! Yet that isn't some wild-eyed idea - it's something our alleged leadership has suggested! Consider these other problems: If there are, say, 4 million births per year, the govt. will need to put $8 billion into the accounts the first year, $16 billion the second year, $24 billion the third year, etc. This won't stabilize until the 18th year, when it reaches $144 billion per year being put aside in these accounts. Most of that money would have to come from *new* revenue sources, because the existing Social Security system would have to continue to exist for a while. And that's based on *no* increase in baby production! Where's all that money supposed to come from? Then there's the question of shenanigans. Some people will try to beat the system in one way or another. More likely are govt. shenaningans - it will be hard for the pols to keep their paws off all that money in the accounts, just as they can't leave Social Security alone. Remember that the *real* problem with Social Security is that the current administration doesn't want to pay back what was borrowed! What's to keep them from "borrowing" from the new system? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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Michael Coslo wrote: wrote Michael Coslo wrote: Back in the '50s and '60s, and maybe even into the '70s, almost all new hams were teenagers or young adults. Young people still make up a good percentage of new hams, but since about the mid-late 1970s we've seen an increasing percentage of older people as newcomers. Indeed, back in the early 1980s - *before* the Tech lost its code test - there was (and still is) a surge of retired and almost-retired folks in these parts getting ham licenses. Lots of new faces and lots of great hams, but unfortunately most of them won't be hams long enough to join OOTC. The Demographic shift in Amateur Radio is similar to many other hobbies/avocations. I think once the dust settles, the typical new ham will be in his or her 40's, and wanting to have a new pursuit after becoming financially stable and perhaps having a bit more spare time in his hands. The exact same thing has already happened in my other hobby, Amateur Astronomy. Maybe. But a lot of folks I know who are in their '40s don't fit your description, struggling with jobs, kids, etc. But it is indisputable that the reductions in requirements have NOT had any sort of significant positive impact on the Ham community. Not long-term, anyway. Despite the hand wringing, there is a place for achieving something that means something. A test that is a challenge? So what? I personally think that the ARS is only strengthened by attracting people that enjoy a bit of a challenge. That's a key point. I think it has been adequately proven that many if not most of the people that think that Element one needs to go away are also in favor of reduced overall licensing requirements. Certainly the leading organization for removal of the Morse test is. Yep. And if Element 1 is removed, and we still don't get growth, guess what's next? NCVEC has already shown their hand. Let us not forget NCI. Basically that position consists of accepting almost any compromise that will get rid of the code test. Note that almost 5 years after the 200 restructuring we still retain more than 50% of Novices and 75% of Advanceds. This indicates to me a significant number of inactive hams. Sure, there are some who are satisfied with their license privs, but I suspect a lot more are SK or have dropped out. Pretty much This has always been the case since I've been a ham. It's gotten worse since the 10 year license term. The number of Techs continues to grow in part because all Tech Pluses have been renewed as Techs since April 2000. But the total number of Techs and Tech Pluses is s few percent lower than it was in 2000. Agreed! But of course people have to know what ham radio *is* to do that! Someone suggested some short commercial spots on time. "on time"? Typo! "one" time... I wonder if that has ever been done. Nothing too elaborate, just getting the name out there. Good idea, but expensive. Seems like there are Hams that are professionals in the field that might be willing to help!...... Still have to buy the time. I would bet that a well thought out program could get some public service spots on local access TV. I guess I'm not inspiring you yet? 8^) Local access TV may bring in a few folks, but not like network TV. Maybe PBS could do a special? Imagine if Ken Burns did a documentary on amateur radio... Yet the NCVEC folks say the solution is to create a class of ham that can't use rigs with more than 30 volts on the electronics... Goofy, goofy, goofy! Tell it to NCVEC. They think they know better than you. From what I gather, their underlying concern was actually that they think their VE's were having to work too hard. Perhaps. Also, the "Amateur Radio in the 21st Century" paper equated passing the code test with winning the Tour de France or painting the Mona Lisa, Wow! now I feel really great about passing!!! ;^) Didja read that paper, and my rebuttal? and described the stress of dealing with grown people crying because they'd flunked the code test....boo-hoo.... Funny you should mention that. the first time I took element 1... and flunked... I was not pleased, but Figured I'd do it again, the person who was the most upset was the VE. I felt worse for him than myself. Lessee...I was 14 and flunked 13 wpm the first go because the examiner couldn't read my longhand. What the sadistic IHM nuns called "Palmer Method", for some reason. So I went home and taught myself to block print and copy Morse in big square capital letters (a skill not taught in the parochial schools of the day) and came back some weeks later, when I passed easily. I don't think tears would have had any effect on ol' Joe Squelch back then... Shrub says hydrogen is the answer. Oh the humanity. Hydrogen's energy density issues make for some problems. That Excursion will have to tack on another 10 miles per hour on trips to make up for all the fuel stops needed. Naw, just liquefy the stuff. Yoiks! Liquid H? Even if, the energy density is still quite a bit less than gasoline. something like 25 percent. Storage concerns are a big problem with the stuff. In a similar fashion We have Natural gas buses in our area. Their tanks are on the bus roof, and run the length of the bus. You just can't get as much energy out of the stuff. Didja know the USA is now *importing* LNG from the Middle East and other places? The big problems a - Handling a fuel that is a gas at STP is more complex than one that is a liquid. - Danger of fire and leaking pressure tanks - Where's all the hydrogen supposed to come from? Yup. While seawater might seem like the obvious way out, hydrolysis of seawater produces interesting byproducts. Yep. Plus - where do you get the electricity to hydrolyze the seawater? Now tell the people in the western US that you want to take a huge amount of their fresh water!! 8^) It is in short enough supply as it is. Might as well develop electric cars... You mean like dragging the gay marriage issue into the Social Security problem? 8^) Yep. The interesting thing is that allowing gay civil unions would *increase* tax revenue. And speaking of marriage: One thing I find interesting is that the divorce rates in the "red" states are consistently and clearly higher than the rates in "blue" states. Seems those folks who rant and rave about "family values" and "covenants" can't seem to stay hitched very long. All you have to do is meet some of the "reds", and you'll immediately understand why they have such a high divorce rate...... Ya gotta be more specific than that! hehe, when I think of the modern conservative, I keep getting this vision od Old man Newt. You mean the "family values" guy who had divorce papers served on his first wife (who had supported him through law school and the early struggles of his political career) while she was *in the hospital undergoing cancer treatment*? Here's the kind of thinking being put forth: One plan being suggested in DC is for the USA to create a special savings account for each baby born in the USA, starting on a certain date. The Feds would put $2000 into each account each year until the kid reaches 18. Total investment $36,000. Assuming about 6% annual interest, each account would be worth over a million dollars when the "baby" reached 65. Nice retirement package, huh? Except it won't work for several reasons completely obvious to anyone with common sense. Who pays that 6 percent interest? That's the first problem. The last time I checked, the rate wasn't anywhere near that. Bingo! Taxes on that money? Capital gains? The money would be tax exempt until the person began to draw upon it. Inflation? That's a BIG one! ~30 years ago, when I was entering the job market out of college, entry-level engineers with degrees were making about what *minimum wage* is now. Go back 50 years, and a $5000/yr income put the average person on Easy Street, able to support a middle-class family in a way that $50,000/yr won't do today. Even if inflation stays low over the next 65 years, $1 million won't be enough to retire on. What really matters, of course, is what I call "differential interest" - the difference between inflation and the apparent interest rate. If you get interest of 6% and inflation of 2%, your money is really only growing at a rate of 4%. Your going to have to have some sort of way that the guvmint pays interest on the account when the prime is low, or you will be creating a powerful incentive for citizens to want a high interest rate which is counterproductive to the economy......The list goes on and on. Yep. Also interesting how everyone in the US will retire a millionaire! Sounds good until the reality cuts in. There are lots of millionaires today - on paper anyway. Ain't gonna work! Yet that isn't some wild-eyed idea - it's something our alleged leadership has suggested! Hey yeah! The stock Market always goes up over the long term, right? Yep. Whether it keeps up with inflation is another issue. While that may be true, people keep applying it to irrelevant issues. This case is just one of using interest in a way that sounds good if you don't look too deep. By the way, did you know the producer of the "Swiftboat Veterns" is now producing smear videos and literature against the AARP? The same people they eagerly worked with a year or two earlier. The Swift Boat dude has been playing that game for decades. Never mind that lots of other vets, who served *with* Mr. Kerry, tell a completely different story. no shame, at long last, no shame. Didn't AARP lose membership for supporting Shrub's prescription plan? Consider these other problems: If there are, say, 4 million births per year, the govt. will need to put $8 billion into the accounts the first year, $16 billion the second year, $24 billion the third year, etc. This won't stabilize until the 18th year, when it reaches $144 billion per year being put aside in these accounts. Most of that money would have to come from *new* revenue sources, because the existing Social Security system would have to continue to exist for a while. And that's based on *no* increase in baby production! Where's all that money supposed to come from? Tax cuts. HAW! Then there's the question of shenanigans. Some people will try to beat the system in one way or another. More likely are govt. shenaningans - it will be hard for the pols to keep their paws off all that money in the accounts, just as they can't leave Social Security alone. Remember that the *real* problem with Social Security is that the current administration doesn't want to pay back what was borrowed! What's to keep them from "borrowing" from the new system? Nada. Yep. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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Dave Heil wrote:
wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: wrote Michael Coslo wrote: Maybe PBS could do a special? Imagine if Ken Burns did a documentary on amateur radio... That could only be good. I've found the stuff done in the past by Dave Bell and Roy Neal to be lacking. A good historical narrative leading to the present and showing active hams doing what they do would be nice, especially if they leave out anyone wearing a tee-shirt or ballcap except perhaps in a Field Day scene. Joe Walsh and Patty Loveless.... Perhaps. Also, the "Amateur Radio in the 21st Century" paper equated passing the code test with winning the Tour de France or painting the Mona Lisa, Wow! now I feel really great about passing!!! ;^) I never got more of a buzz from passing a morse exam than I did when passing a tough chemistry exam. Ah, but passing the entire exam for obtaining a license opened a window to the world. Same here! Didja read that paper, and my rebuttal? No. "Amateur Radio In the 21st Century" can be viewed here http://gahleos.obarr.net/messages/0002.html A detailed rebuttal in three parts: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...licy/msg/1f293 55163c4ed4e?dmode=source http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...licy/msg/a0bb6 7064e87e3d8?dmode=source http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...licy/msg/0fceb 52701a89334?dmode=source Funny you should mention that. the first time I took element 1... and flunked... I was not pleased, but Figured I'd do it again, the person who was the most upset was the VE. I felt worse for him than myself. Lessee...I was 14 and flunked 13 wpm the first go because the examiner couldn't read my longhand. What the sadistic IHM nuns called "Palmer Method", for some reason. You really wrote out the morse exam in longhand? Yep. That's all they taught in parochial school back then. You'd get whacked across the knunckles with a hardwood ruler for printing. So I went home and taught myself to block print and copy Morse in big square capital letters (a skill not taught in the parochial schools of the day) and came back some weeks later, when I passed easily. I started copying morse in block caps and it was an easy transition. I'd done most of my schoolwork in upper and lower case printing 'cuz the teachers had a rough time reading my left-handed scrawl. I stopped using longhand for anything when I got out of high school. Didja know the USA is now *importing* LNG from the Middle East and other places? We've been importing natural gas for decades. But not by ship! Ever hear of the "Big Inch" pipeline? Oyez. When I was a kid, there was a large part of South Philly devoted to the gas works, where coal was heated to make producer gas and stored in huge expandable tanks. The conversion to natural gas eliminated all that. Didn't AARP lose membership for supporting Shrub's prescription plan? They lost me before that. They sent me that crummy "My Generation" magazine about 50+ folks in denial over aging *and* AARP tried to represent me on issues where I took strong exception to their views. After three years of membership, I couldn't find a benefit to belonging. I just got membership literature from them...can't see any reason to join for the same reasons... 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: wrote Michael Coslo wrote: And I know some people in their 60's who have just bought a house. They may or may not finish their mortgage. My point is that a new demographic is emerging. It is one of a mature person who has decided to get into a hobby as they start to have a bit more leisure time. For myself, that started when I was in my mid-late 40's, as my son graduated high school and the travel hockey wound down. All that tends to free up the finances a bit also. I think that demographic has been around for at least 2-3 decades. But your point is well taken. And it has unforeseen effects, like driving the "average age" of US hams upwards. Local access TV may bring in a few folks, but not like network TV. Of course. But it would still be getting a message out. Maybe PBS could do a special? Imagine if Ken Burns did a documentary on amateur radio... Now your talking! hehe. 'zactly Yet the NCVEC folks say the solution is to create a class of ham that can't use rigs with more than 30 volts on the electronics... Goofy, goofy, goofy! Tell it to NCVEC. They think they know better than you. From what I gather, their underlying concern was actually that they think their VE's were having to work too hard. Perhaps. Also, the "Amateur Radio in the 21st Century" paper equated passing the code test with winning the Tour de France or painting the Mona Lisa, Wow! now I feel really great about passing!!! ;^) Didja read that paper, and my rebuttal? I read the paper (don't know if I should say *yawn* or *ick*. I didn't read your comment tho'. Please see the links I posted in my reply to K8MN earlier today. The NCVEC proposal is derived almost word-for-word from that paper. Interesting to note the mistakes in the paper and its 'we know better than you' tone from an author who *brags* he can't even pass the current tests! Makes the ARRL proposal look like a work of genius by comparison. and described the stress of dealing with grown people crying because they'd flunked the code test....boo-hoo.... Funny you should mention that. the first time I took element 1... and flunked... I was not pleased, but Figured I'd do it again, the person who was the most upset was the VE. I felt worse for him than myself. Lessee...I was 14 and flunked 13 wpm the first go because the examiner couldn't read my longhand. What the sadistic IHM nuns called "Palmer Method", for some reason. So you went to the catholic school at Our Lady of the Perpetual Responsibility, eh? Yep. Only they weren't so nice as Sister Arvonne Shrub says hydrogen is the answer. Oh the humanity. Hydrogen's energy density issues make for some problems. That Excursion will have to tack on another 10 miles per hour on trips to make up for all the fuel stops needed. Naw, just liquefy the stuff. Yoiks! Liquid H? Even if, the energy density is still quite a bit less than gasoline. something like 25 percent. Storage concerns are a big problem with the stuff. In a similar fashion We have Natural gas buses in our area. Their tanks are on the bus roof, and run the length of the bus. You just can't get as much energy out of the stuff. Didja know the USA is now *importing* LNG from the Middle East and other places? Ever stop to think about how much of that stuff used to be burned off at the well head as "useless"? One more Yoiks! Not useless, just not economically competitive to recover and transport at the time. The big problems a - Handling a fuel that is a gas at STP is more complex than one that is a liquid. - Danger of fire and leaking pressure tanks - Where's all the hydrogen supposed to come from? Yup. While seawater might seem like the obvious way out, hydrolysis of seawater produces interesting byproducts. Yep. Plus - where do you get the electricity to hydrolyze the seawater? I'm a big fan of nuclear energy, when it is done in a smart and safe way. And there are smart and safe ways to do it. The plants are obvious terror targets. The long term problem is the waste. One solution being explored in places like Australia is the solar tower concept. Uses desert land. Now tell the people in the western US that you want to take a huge amount of their fresh water!! 8^) It is in short enough supply as it is. Might as well develop electric cars... Welcome back to nuc energy! One thing I am adamant about is that we should never try to extract the energy needed to run our country from materials that humans need to support life. Biofuels such as corn based ethanol, and hydrogen taken from fresh water are big no-nos in my book. A point well taken! Hwoever, if fuels can be extracted from waste products (TDP, for example) that's a win-win. If we go down that road, we may some day have to choose between propulsive energy and human life. We already make that choice when we import oil from certain countries and turn a blind eye to what else they do. Like the way the Reagan administration and Shake Hands dealt with SH back in the '80s. You mean like dragging the gay marriage issue into the Social Security problem? 8^) Yep. The interesting thing is that allowing gay civil unions would *increase* tax revenue. And speaking of marriage: One thing I find interesting is that the divorce rates in the "red" states are consistently and clearly higher than the rates in "blue" states. Seems those folks who rant and rave about "family values" and "covenants" can't seem to stay hitched very long. All you have to do is meet some of the "reds", and you'll immediately understand why they have such a high divorce rate...... Ya gotta be more specific than that! hehe, when I think of the modern conservative, I keep getting this vision of Old man Newt. You mean the "family values" guy who had divorce papers served on his first wife (who had supported him through law school and the early struggles of his political career) while she was *in the hospital undergoing cancer treatment*? ah yes, you've heard of him? Yeah - nice guy, huh? NOT! "It's all about values" I notice he's being resurrected even now. Look up how many times Rush Limbaugh has been married... Here's the kind of thinking being put forth: One plan being suggested in DC is for the USA to create a special savings account for each baby born in the USA, starting on a certain date. The Feds would put $2000 into each account each year until the kid reaches 18. Total investment $36,000. Assuming about 6% annual interest, each account would be worth over a million dollars when the "baby" reached 65. Nice retirement package, huh? Except it won't work for several reasons completely obvious to anyone with common sense. Who pays that 6 percent interest? That's the first problem. The last time I checked, the rate wasn't anywhere near that. Bingo! Taxes on that money? Capital gains? The money would be tax exempt until the person began to draw upon it. Inflation? That's a BIG one! ~30 years ago, when I was entering the job market out of college, entry-level engineers with degrees were making about what *minimum wage* is now. Go back 50 years, and a $5000/yr income put the average person on Easy Street, able to support a middle-class family in a way that $50,000/yr won't do today. Even if inflation stays low over the next 65 years, $1 million won't be enough to retire on. What really matters, of course, is what I call "differential interest" - the difference between inflation and the apparent interest rate. If you get interest of 6% and inflation of 2%, your money is really only growing at a rate of 4%. Your going to have to have some sort of way that the guvmint pays interest on the account when the prime is low, or you will be creating a powerful incentive for citizens to want a high interest rate which is counterproductive to the economy......The list goes on and on. Yep. Also interesting how everyone in the US will retire a millionaire! Sounds good until the reality cuts in. There are lots of millionaires today - on paper anyway. Ain't gonna work! Yet that isn't some wild-eyed idea - it's something our alleged leadership has suggested! Hey yeah! The stock Market always goes up over the long term, right? Yep. Whether it keeps up with inflation is another issue. Even if it does, if you are using a market based system, the important part is what the market is doing right before you retire. Not really, unless you intend to pull all your money out the day you retire. While that may be true, people keep applying it to irrelevant issues. This case is just one of using interest in a way that sounds good if you don't look too deep. By the way, did you know the producer of the "Swiftboat Veterns" is now producing smear videos and literature against the AARP? The same people they eagerly worked with a year or two earlier. The Swift Boat dude has been playing that game for decades. Never mind that lots of other vets, who served *with* Mr. Kerry, tell a completely different story. no shame, at long last, no shame. Didn't AARP lose membership for supporting Shrub's prescription plan? Not sure.... Consider these other problems: If there are, say, 4 million births per year, the govt. will need to put $8 billion into the accounts the first year, $16 billion the second year, $24 billion the third year, etc. This won't stabilize until the 18th year, when it reaches $144 billion per year being put aside in these accounts. Most of that money would have to come from *new* revenue sources, because the existing Social Security system would have to continue to exist for a while. And that's based on *no* increase in baby production! Where's all that money supposed to come from? Tax cuts. HAW! Seriously, if we reduce the tax rate all problems will go away! Until tomorrow! 73 de Jim, N2EY |
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote: wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: wrote Michael Coslo wrote: Maybe PBS could do a special? Imagine if Ken Burns did a documentary on amateur radio... That could only be good. I've found the stuff done in the past by Dave Bell and Roy Neal to be lacking. A good historical narrative leading to the present and showing active hams doing what they do would be nice, especially if they leave out anyone wearing a tee-shirt or ballcap except perhaps in a Field Day scene. Joe Walsh and Patty Loveless.... Perhaps. Also, the "Amateur Radio in the 21st Century" paper equated passing the code test with winning the Tour de France or painting the Mona Lisa, Wow! now I feel really great about passing!!! ;^) I never got more of a buzz from passing a morse exam than I did when passing a tough chemistry exam. Ah, but passing the entire exam for obtaining a license opened a window to the world. Same here! Didja read that paper, and my rebuttal? No. "Amateur Radio In the 21st Century" can be viewed here http://gahleos.obarr.net/messages/0002.html A detailed rebuttal in three parts: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...licy/msg/1f293 55163c4ed4e?dmode=source http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...licy/msg/a0bb6 7064e87e3d8?dmode=source http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...licy/msg/0fceb 52701a89334?dmode=source Jim, you gotta give tinyurl a try. Just go to http://www.tinyurl.com, and copy and and paste the long URL in the field provided, and it will make a tiny url for ya! Then put that in the message. All free - Mike KB3EIA - |
"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message .. . wrote in oups.com: [snip] It's the classic case of a red herring diversion. Blame the code test for everyhting bad while the real problems are not addressed. 73 de Jim, N2EY It depends what you mean. Will repealing the code test provide a vast increase in numbers? No. Will it provide some increase? Yes. I'd say that's more like a maybe rather than a yes. Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Will there be a large increase in HF use? Yes. That is also a maybe. If the code is dropped this year, many will buy the rigs and try it but may be sadly disappointed in the results since we are in the trough of the sunspot cycle and results are so often poor right now. They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Didja read that paper, and my rebuttal? No. "Amateur Radio In the 21st Century" can be viewed here http://gahleos.obarr.net/messages/0002.html A detailed rebuttal in three parts: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...licy/msg/1f293 55163c4ed4e?dmode=source http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...licy/msg/a0bb6 7064e87e3d8?dmode=source http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...licy/msg/0fceb 52701a89334?dmode=source Jim, you gotta give tinyurl a try. Just go to http://www.tinyurl.com, and copy and and paste the long URL in the field provided, and it will make a tiny url for ya! Then put that in the message. All free Let's try this again: "Amateur Radio In the 21st Century" can be viewed he http://gahleos.obarr.net/messages/0002.html Or he http://tinyurl.com/695p6 My detailed rebuttal in three parts can be viewed too. Part 1 is he http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e?dmode=source Or he http://tinyurl.com/6385t Part 2 is he http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...8?dmode=source Or he http://tinyurl.com/4uvd5 Part 3 is he http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...4?dmode=source Or he http://tinyurl.com/4kxah See what these folks think is needed for the future of amateur radio. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Dee Flint wrote:
"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message .. . wrote in groups.com: [snip] It's the classic case of a red herring diversion. Blame the code test for everyhting bad while the real problems are not addressed. 73 de Jim, N2EY It depends what you mean. Will repealing the code test provide a vast increase in numbers? No. Will it provide some increase? Yes. I'd say that's more like a maybe rather than a yes. Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Will there be a large increase in HF use? Yes. That is also a maybe. If the code is dropped this year, many will buy the rigs and try it but may be sadly disappointed in the results since we are in the trough of the sunspot cycle and results are so often poor right now. They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Wow, good point, Dee! When I first got my license, the band conditions were very good on average. The "work the world on a wet string" days. Now 20 meters is usually half dead around 7 p.m. and the broadcasters are starting to flood 40 meters. So a new HF'er is going to wonder just exactly what those new privileges are worth. As the sunspot cycle winds down, the conditions are only going to get worse. 80 meters will be a crowed pool for the next few years. Personally I think that anyone who is feels trapped by having to learn Morse code will feel equally or more trapped when they discover what they have to do to get a good signal out on 80/75 meters! Maybe they can get the F.C.C. to repeal those stupid propagation conditions! 8^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
On Thurs, Mar 3 2005 11:04 pm, "Dee Flint" (calmed down from a previous
hissy fit) jumped into a so-called conversation and shouted out: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. wrote in oups.com: [snip] It's the classic case of a red herring diversion. Blame the code test for everyhting bad while the real problems are not addressed. 73 de Jim, N2EY It depends what you mean. Will repealing the code test provide a vast increase in numbers? No. Will it provide some increase? Yes. I'd say that's more like a maybe rather than a yes. What? You don't KNOW? All PCTAs KNOW things EXACTLY! :-) Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Riiiiight, Mama Dee. Nobody is trapped. No-coders are NOBODIES. :-) Will there be a large increase in HF use? Yes. That is also a maybe. If the code is dropped this year, many will buy the rigs and try it but may be sadly disappointed in the results since we are in the trough of the sunspot cycle and results are so often poor right now. Sorry, Dee, you can't be right unless you give the EXACT number. "No one will believe you if you don't give us the exact data." :-) Riiiight, Dee, the "only" purpose of HF is "to work DX with CW." :-) They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Wow, all that struggle just to be "second best!" Such "incentive!" Gots to "work DX on HF with CW." On "shortwave!" BTW, the rest of the radio world uses the term "shortwave" to refer to small wavelengths measured in centimeters. It's in all the trade magazines. Oops, I forgot. Real hams don't read industry trades. The only approved publications about radio come from the ARRL. Work, struggle with all one's might to become "second best." :-) Mediocre is the word. Or, to keep the "CW" bandplan open as an olde-tymer's playground/sandbox to keep their righteousnesses happy. "Real" radio operators do "CW." All important, vital, necessities, righteous. Get and keep federal LAW to TEST all hobbyists operating below 30 MHz or the sky will fall! |
wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote: snip Jim, you gotta give tinyurl a try. Just go to http://www.tinyurl.com, and copy and and paste the long URL in the field provided, and it will make a tiny url for ya! Then put that in the message. All free Let's try this again: "Amateur Radio In the 21st Century" can be viewed he http://gahleos.obarr.net/messages/0002.html Or he http://tinyurl.com/695p6 My detailed rebuttal in three parts can be viewed too. Part 1 is he http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e?dmode=source Or he http://tinyurl.com/6385t Part 2 is he http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...8?dmode=source Or he http://tinyurl.com/4uvd5 Part 3 is he http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...4?dmode=source Or he http://tinyurl.com/4kxah See what these folks think is needed for the future of amateur radio. One of your points that may be hidden in all the text, yet is critically important IMO, is the part noting that while removing the Morse test completely for one license class, and reducing it to 5wpm for the others, we have managed only a very modest increase in numbers (note that this was an "at the time" thing. As the future would pan out, we have lost numbers, and a lot of them the Non-coded types. As a ship that is almost stopped proves, turning the rudder does almost nothing, or when the interest rate goes very low, adjusting it does almost nothing, eliminating the 5WPM Morse code will have no positive effect on the numbers of new hams, and the most likely effect will be that with the lesser effort, more and more will get into the hobby with only slight interest, and then drop out. That is not what we need. Hey, do I get a prize for that freakin' long sentence? - Mike KB3EIA - |
woke up from a long winter's nap and wrote:
On Thurs, Mar 3 2005 11:04 pm, "Dee Flint" (calmed down from a previous hissy fit) jumped into a so-called conversation and shouted out: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. wrote in oups.com: [snip] Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Riiiiight, Mama Dee. Nobody is trapped. No-coders are NOBODIES. :-) Incorrect, grizzled ancient one. No coders have the same opportunity to pass the piddling, easy 5 wpm code test as anyone else. :-) :-) Riiiight, Dee, the "only" purpose of HF is "to work DX with CW." :-) Nobody is peddling that claim except for you and you aren't involved with DX or CW. They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Wow, all that struggle just to be "second best!" Such "incentive!" Gots to "work DX on HF with CW." On "shortwave!" Those of us who care to will. How are you involved? BTW, the rest of the radio world uses the term "shortwave" to refer to small wavelengths measured in centimeters. That's simply incorrect. The term has been defined and understood for many, many decades. If some Johnny-come-lately wants to act as if he has just invented the terms "shortwave" or "wireless" let him join you in looking like a complete boob. It's in all the trade magazines. Oops, I forgot. Real hams don't read industry trades. The only approved publications about radio come from the ARRL. Real hams may read anything they choose and even a non-ham like yourself may look at QST. Work, struggle with all one's might to become "second best." :-) Mediocre is the word. You whine and whine over a measly five wpm morse code test and you dare write of mediocrity? :-) :-) Or, to keep the "CW" bandplan open as an olde-tymer's playground/sandbox to keep their righteousnesses happy. "Real" radio operators do "CW." All important, vital, necessities, righteous. Get and keep federal LAW to TEST all hobbyists operating below 30 MHz or the sky will fall! Seems as if you're really swinging from the chandelier today, Leonard. Dave K8MN |
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... [snip] As the future would pan out, we have lost numbers, and a lot of them the Non-coded types. As a ship that is almost stopped proves, turning the rudder does almost nothing, or when the interest rate goes very low, adjusting it does almost nothing, eliminating the 5WPM Morse code will have no positive effect on the numbers of new hams, and the most likely effect will be that with the lesser effort, more and more will get into the hobby with only slight interest, and then drop out. That is not what we need. Hey, do I get a prize for that freakin' long sentence? - Mike KB3EIA - How does it stack up against some of Edgar Allan Poe's sentences? I know he wrote some doozies when it came to length. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Dave Heil" wrote in message ... woke up from a long winter's nap and wrote: On Thurs, Mar 3 2005 11:04 pm, "Dee Flint" (calmed down from a previous hissy fit) jumped into a so-called conversation and shouted out: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. wrote in oups.com: [snip] Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Riiiiight, Mama Dee. Nobody is trapped. No-coders are NOBODIES. :-) Incorrect, grizzled ancient one. No coders have the same opportunity to pass the piddling, easy 5 wpm code test as anyone else. :-) :-) Riiiight, Dee, the "only" purpose of HF is "to work DX with CW." :-) Nobody is peddling that claim except for you and you aren't involved with DX or CW. Fortunately I only see Len's idiotic comments when someone replies to them. Notice how he has inserted material that wasn't even there. I've worked plenty of non-DX stations on HF. He ignores the fact that the same propagation principles apply to domestic and international communications. I am also amazed at how he keeps flattering me by using the term "Mama Dee", since this is the most important job in the world for any woman with children. He probably intends for it to be derogatory but has failed miserably in that regard. They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Wow, all that struggle just to be "second best!" Such "incentive!" Gots to "work DX on HF with CW." On "shortwave!" Those of us who care to will. How are you involved? Notice how he cannot distiguish between 2nd best and 2nd most used. These two phrases have entirely different meanings. BTW, the rest of the radio world uses the term "shortwave" to refer to small wavelengths measured in centimeters. That's simply incorrect. The term has been defined and understood for many, many decades. If some Johnny-come-lately wants to act as if he has just invented the terms "shortwave" or "wireless" let him join you in looking like a complete boob. It's in all the trade magazines. Oops, I forgot. Real hams don't read industry trades. The only approved publications about radio come from the ARRL. Real hams may read anything they choose and even a non-ham like yourself may look at QST. Work, struggle with all one's might to become "second best." :-) Mediocre is the word. You whine and whine over a measly five wpm morse code test and you dare write of mediocrity? :-) :-) Again he is totally fuzzy on the difference between 2nd best and 2nd most used. Or, to keep the "CW" bandplan open as an olde-tymer's playground/sandbox to keep their righteousnesses happy. "Real" radio operators do "CW." All important, vital, necessities, righteous. Get and keep federal LAW to TEST all hobbyists operating below 30 MHz or the sky will fall! Seems as if you're really swinging from the chandelier today, Leonard. Dave K8MN Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee Flint wrote:
"Dave Heil" wrote in message ... woke up from a long winter's nap and wrote: On Thurs, Mar 3 2005 11:04 pm, "Dee Flint" (calmed down from a previous hissy fit) jumped into a so-called conversation and shouted out: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. wrote in oups.com: [snip] Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Riiiiight, Mama Dee. Nobody is trapped. No-coders are NOBODIES. :-) Incorrect, grizzled ancient one. No coders have the same opportunity to pass the piddling, easy 5 wpm code test as anyone else. :-) :-) Riiiight, Dee, the "only" purpose of HF is "to work DX with CW." :-) Nobody is peddling that claim except for you and you aren't involved with DX or CW. Fortunately I only see Len's idiotic comments when someone replies to them. That's likely a good thing. Notice how he has inserted material that wasn't even there. That happens frequently. He often goes off on a diversionary rant. I've worked plenty of non-DX stations on HF. Same here--domestic rag chews, section nets, contests. Plenty of them were done using modes other than CW too. He ignores the fact that the same propagation principles apply to domestic and international communications. It doesn't suit his agenda. I am also amazed at how he keeps flattering me by using the term "Mama Dee", since this is the most important job in the world for any woman with children. He probably intends for it to be derogatory but has failed miserably in that regard. Len finds it quite difficult to use someone's given name. They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Wow, all that struggle just to be "second best!" Such "incentive!" Gots to "work DX on HF with CW." On "shortwave!" Those of us who care to will. How are you involved? Notice how he cannot distiguish between 2nd best and 2nd most used. These two phrases have entirely different meanings. Again, it doesn't suit his agenda. BTW, the rest of the radio world uses the term "shortwave" to refer to small wavelengths measured in centimeters. That's simply incorrect. The term has been defined and understood for many, many decades. If some Johnny-come-lately wants to act as if he has just invented the terms "shortwave" or "wireless" let him join you in looking like a complete boob. It's in all the trade magazines. Oops, I forgot. Real hams don't read industry trades. The only approved publications about radio come from the ARRL. Real hams may read anything they choose and even a non-ham like yourself may look at QST. Work, struggle with all one's might to become "second best." :-) Mediocre is the word. You whine and whine over a measly five wpm morse code test and you dare write of mediocrity? :-) :-) Again he is totally fuzzy on the difference between 2nd best and 2nd most used. Len really doesn't believe that morse code comes in second in either category. It wouldn't appear that whatever he believes has effected radio amateurs at all. He isn't involved. Dave K8MN |
Dee Flint wrote: "Dave Heil" wrote in message ... woke up from a long winter's nap and wrote: On Thurs, Mar 3 2005 11:04 pm, "Dee Flint" (calmed down from a previous hissy fit) jumped into a so-called conversation and shouted out: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. wrote in oups.com: [snip] Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Riiiiight, Mama Dee. Nobody is trapped. No-coders are NOBODIES. Incorrect, grizzled ancient one. No coders have the same opportunity to pass the piddling, easy 5 wpm code test as anyone else. Even the unlicensed have the same oppotunities...It's just that SOME of them don't ahve the cajones to take the test...Mostly becasue it's illegal to take the test open-book. Lennie couldn't do it otherwise. He keeps making significant error-of-fact even when he has plenty of opportunity to "get it right" before he posts in here...pity that! Riiiight, Dee, the "only" purpose of HF is "to work DX with CW." Nobody is peddling that claim except for you and you aren't involved with DX or CW. Fortunately I only see Len's idiotic comments when someone replies to them. Notice how he has inserted material that wasn't even there. I've worked plenty of non-DX stations on HF. He ignores the fact that the same propagation principles apply to domestic and international communications. Ironic that Lennie claims that he's such a brilliant engineer. Lot's of NON engineer types have some very enviable "DX" records never operating below 144MHz, let alone on 50MHz. Quite a few DXCC's awarded for VHF operations. THAT takes skill...perseverence...knowledge...determination. In other words...characteristics Lennie lacks. I am also amazed at how he keeps flattering me by using the term "Mama Dee", since this is the most important job in the world for any woman with children. He probably intends for it to be derogatory but has failed miserably in that regard. You'll fogive Lennie's mock-derogatory attack on your gender, Dee. Lennie's own female significant other wouldn't favor him with offspring, hence most of his angst vis-a-vis women, and I assume his misdirected attack on pre-teen licensure in Amateur Radio (no practical experience in child development). He even digs in pretty deep on Kim who's own position on many issues actually parallels his own. Ya gots ta wonder why he would publically slap around a potential ally. They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Wow, all that struggle just to be "second best!" Such "incentive!" Gots to "work DX on HF with CW." On "shortwave!" Those of us who care to will. How are you involved? Notice how he cannot distiguish between 2nd best and 2nd most used. These two phrases have entirely different meanings. Lennie has a LOT of trouble distinguishing between a LOT of things, Dee... Like "truth" and "mistruth". They are interchangeable in Lennie's world. And if he were a licensed Amateur, Lennie would know how much significantly more challenging it is to obtain a DXCC above 50MHz than below it. Makes those who do it a lot more remarkable in my book... BTW, the rest of the radio world uses the term "shortwave" to refer to small wavelengths measured in centimeters. That's simply incorrect. The term has been defined and understood for many, many decades. If some Johnny-come-lately wants to act as if he has just invented the terms "shortwave" or "wireless" let him join you in looking like a complete boob. It's in all the trade magazines. Oops, I forgot. Real hams don't read industry trades. The only approved publications about radio come from the ARRL. Real hams may read anything they choose and even a non-ham like yourself may look at QST. Work, struggle with all one's might to become "second best." Mediocre is the word. You whine and whine over a measly five wpm morse code test and you dare write of mediocrity? Again he is totally fuzzy on the difference between 2nd best and 2nd most used. Mediocrity kept Lennie away from at least one "aerospace" job I know of. No doubt it kept him from others too. But he DID "have his hands in" several "aerospace" jobs...No doubt some of the early Vanguard missions and at least one Space Shuttle mission. Or, to keep the "CW" bandplan open as an olde-tymer's playground/sandbox to keep their righteousnesses happy. "Real" radio operators do "CW." All important, vital, necessities, righteous. Get and keep federal LAW to TEST all hobbyists operating below 30 MHz or the sky will fall! Seems as if you're really swinging from the chandelier today, Leonard. Ironic then that the ONLY "CW bandplan" is in V/UHF spectrum, huh...?!?! (Lennie and Brain call me "nuts", but then they keep making assinine assertions in the face of well known, publically accepted standards to the contrary of thier "understanding" of things...Sheeeeesh...) 73 Steve, K4YZ |
From: "Dee Flint" on Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:24:14
am Fortunately I only see Len's idiotic comments when someone replies to them. Tsk. PCTA Double Standard invoked. :-) Speaking against morse code is "idiotic!" :-) Ostrich syndrome. Hiding one's head in the sand does NOT make them disappear. :-) Notice how he has inserted material that wasn't even there. I've worked plenty of non-DX stations on HF. He ignores the fact that the same propagation principles apply to domestic and international communications. "Ignore?" :-) Hardly. The SAME laws of physics apply to ALL radio, Dee. Electrons, fields and waves ignore human divisions of "domestic" and "international." They also ignore the human divisions of "ham radios" versus all other radios. I first started doing both domestic and international radio communications 52 years ago. Laws of physics haven't changed in all that half century. I am also amazed at how he keeps flattering me by using the term "Mama Dee", since this is the most important job in the world for any woman with children. He probably intends for it to be derogatory but has failed miserably in that regard. Tsk. I suppose you want to "discipline" those who make derogatory to you? :-) Tsk, tsk, tsk. Trying to treat grown-ups as if they are children is NOT a mature behavior. :-) Notice how he cannot distiguish between 2nd best and 2nd most used. These two phrases have entirely different meanings. Depends on whether one is in REALITY or the fantasy of the PCTA extras. :-) The rest of the radio world thinks of morse code as a "Once Was," and such isn't in any "2nd," nor "3rd," nor any category. :-) Tsk, tsk, tsk. ONLY in amateur radio is that old 1844 morse code considered an ultimate skill achievement worthy of amateur radio license "qualification!" Wow! Hello? Can anyone say "RETRO?" :-) Again he is totally fuzzy on the difference between 2nd best and 2nd most used. Tsk. I've offended Mother Ham! [isn't that awful?!?] Well, one out of two ain't bad (I really like apple pie). :-) [try the phrase "mom and apple pie" for those who are connect-the-dot impaired... :-) ] Yup...the following is a catechism of the Church of St. Hiram following: Or, to keep the "CW" bandplan open as an olde-tymer's playground/sandbox to keep their righteousnesses happy. "Real" radio operators do "CW." All important, vital, necessities, righteous. Get and keep federal LAW to TEST all hobbyists operating below 30 MHz or the sky will fall! To the PCTA extras, morse code IS first! Hear ye! Hear ye! :-) |
"K4YZ" frothing-at-the-mouth Avenging Angle, still mad as hell
and unable to take it anymore posted this on Sun, Mar 6 2005 5:49 am: Dee Flint wrote: "Dave Heil" wrote in message ... woke up from a long winter's nap and wrote: On Thurs, Mar 3 2005 11:04 pm, "Dee Flint" (calmed down from a previous hissy fit) jumped into a so-called conversation and shouted out: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. wrote in oups.com: [snip] Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Riiiiight, Mama Dee. Nobody is trapped. No-coders are NOBODIES. Incorrect, grizzled ancient one. No coders have the same opportunity to pass the piddling, easy 5 wpm code test as anyone else. Even the unlicensed have the same oppotunities...It's just that SOME of them don't ahve the cajones to take the test...Mostly becasue it's illegal to take the test open-book. Tsk. Stevie done took a bath in Lie Soap again. :-) Lennie couldn't do it otherwise. He keeps making significant error-of-fact even when he has plenty of opportunity to "get it right" before he posts in here...pity that! Of course, "pity" that so few want to inhabit a world of fantasy conjured up by the PCTA extras where Morse Is King! :-) Ironic that Lennie claims that he's such a brilliant engineer. Tsk, tsk. Stevie done IMAGINED something again. Bad, Stevie, Bad! I am an electronics design engineer by training and experience, accepting money for such work. Did that for years and years. I've not claimed otherwise. :-) "Brilliant?!?" Only when I turn on the Xenon spotlight. :-) [I don't glow in the dark yet... :-) ] Lot's of NON engineer types have some very enviable "DX" records never operating below 144MHz, let alone on 50MHz. Quite a few DXCC's awarded for VHF operations. THAT takes skill...perseverence...knowled?ge...determination. In other words...characteristics Lennie lacks. Tsk, tsk. How did the subject suddenly turn to VHF DX? :-) Is big badass Stevie some kind of VHF operations DX hero? Tell us all about your mighty (hostile?) actions at VHF and above! I'm sure we can find at least one person in here who has the patience to listen to such tales. Tsk. As for "skills" and the rest, I was working with 1.8 GHz multi-channel microwave radio terminals back in 1954, as operations and maintenance supervisor of 9 of them in 1955. All line-of-sight, of course, but operating 24/7 and had to. You'll fogive Lennie's mock-derogatory attack on your gender, Dee. Lennie's own female significant other wouldn't favor him with offspring, hence most of his angst vis-a-vis women, and I assume his misdirected attack on pre-teen licensure in Amateur Radio (no practical experience in child development). Tsk, tsk, tsk. My wife and I will celebrate our 6th wedding anniversary soon. :-) Tsk. Stevie hasn't done a good work-up on his opponents in here. Stevie needs to go back to Psychiatry 101 and review what he didn't get the first time around. :-) I'm not sure what this thing about "raising children" is about...it's an artificiality brought up by those who just want to FIGHT about a subject. He even digs in pretty deep on Kim who's own position on many issues actually parallels his own. Ya gots ta wonder why he would publically slap around a potential ally. I "dig deep?" :-) "Slap around a potential ally?!?" :-) Stevie must be on some kind of druggie Trip again. :-) Lennie has a LOT of trouble distinguishing between a LOT of things, Dee... Like "truth" and "mistruth". They are interchangeable in Lennie's world. Tsk, tsk, tsk. I live in REALITY, not in Stevie's fantasy world where He sets the rulez and determines what is "truth" and what is "lie." :-) And if he were a licensed Amateur, Lennie would know how much significantly more challenging it is to obtain a DXCC above 50MHz than below it. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Poor Stevie is trying to divert the subject. I've worked above 50 MHz and I've worked below 50 MHz since 1953 and continued to do so until 2004. Never had to get an amateur radio license for that nor know morse code, just used my First 'Phone first granted in 1956. :-) Makes those who do it a lot more remarkable in my book... Stevie needs to get TWO books. And OPEN them. :-) Mediocrity kept Lennie away from at least one "aerospace" job I know of. Which one was that? :-) Was it Hughes Aircraft Company? Ramo-Wooldridge Corporation? Micro-Radionics division of Systron-Donner? Birtcher Instruments? Electro-Optical Systems (a division of Xerox Corporation)? Radio Corporation of America? Teledyne Electronics? Rocketdyne (then a division of Rockwell International, sold to Boeing Aircraft, with a current, pending sale to another corporation not yet completed)? I've posted those places of employment in here before. You really ought to get things straight. Tsk. No doubt it kept him from others too. Heh heh heh...I'm suuuure you think so...except I chose my places of employment, was NEVER fired for any reason. But he DID "have his hands in" several "aerospace" jobs...No doubt some of the early Vanguard missions and at least one Space Shuttle mission. I did?!? Stevie went off into some wild blue yonder of his own. Tsk. "Aerospace" means both air and space. :-) Rocketdyne designed and built - and still builds - the Space Shuttle Main Engine (SSME). Three on every STS vehicle. [that's "shuttle" to civilians] Liquid hydrogent - liquid oxygen powered, throttleable thrust, 350,000 pounds of thrust (awesome to feel one 1200 feet away in the blockhouse during a test run). Each SSME has its own strap-on computer to control the throttleable engine and measure oxygen flow indirectly. Tsk. I've never been directly involved in a "mission" of STS (specific flight) and certainly not on the "Vanguard" program. (Lennie and Brain call me "nuts", but then they keep making assinine assertions in the face of well known, publically accepted standards to the contrary of thier "understanding" of things...Sheeeeesh...) Well, little Stevie is 0 for naught on this message, hasn't gotten one thing correct yet, wandered obliquely off on some tangent subject in a transcendental haze. Poor guy should STAY on his meds...and seek professional medical mental therapy. But, Stevie IS a shining example of a modern PCTA amateur extra! [oy veh! :-) ] |
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Dee Flint wrote: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message .. . wrote in oups.com: [snip] It's the classic case of a red herring diversion. Blame the code test for everyhting bad while the real problems are not addressed. 73 de Jim, N2EY It depends what you mean. Will repealing the code test provide a vast increase in numbers? No. Will it provide some increase? Yes. I'd say that's more like a maybe rather than a yes. Good point! Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Agreed. Consider how many Novices and Techs who have passed Element 1 have not upgraded, even after almost 5 years. Are they "trapped" because of the General written test? Will there be a large increase in HF use? Yes. That is also a maybe. If the code is dropped this year, many will buy the rigs and try it but may be sadly disappointed in the results since we are in the trough of the sunspot cycle and results are so often poor right now. Depends on what people expect. If someone expects to put up a ground-mounted "all band" vertical, connect a 100 W transceiver and make SSB DXCC in a few weeks without much effort, they'll probably be sadly disappointed. OTOH, 80 meter CW has been great the past couple of weeks. Good QSOs of a couple hundred miles with modest stations at both ends. All depends what you expect. They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Second most used by hams, anyway. But I wonder if it would even get that far. The license is only the first step - getting a station together and working is a much bigger task than passing Element 1. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Dave Heil babbled on Sun, Mar 6 2005 1:26 pm:
wrote: "Dee Flint" on Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:24:14 Fortunately I only see Len's idiotic comments when someone replies to them. Tsk. PCTA Double Standard invoked. :-) Speaking against morse code is "idiotic!" :-) Hell, she didn't write that, Len. She said your idiotic comments. :-) Ostrich syndrome. Hiding one's head in the sand does NOT make them disappear. :-) It makes you disappear for her, Len. She's built a fence behind her house so as not to have to view the unsightly landfill next door. You're the unsightly landfill. Oh, poor babies! Truth is "ugly" and old standards are "beautiful?" By all means, everyone that CANNOT argue all sides of an issue do their ostrich thing! Delude yourselves! Practice denial. Would you like to be disciplined by Dee, Leonard? I'm not into sado-masochism. Sounds like YOUR thing. :-) Perhaps you can get her to don some of those invisible robes you like to write about. Tsk. There's an old fable called "The Emperor's New Clothes," all about vanity and self-righteousness, self-delusion. That's so YOU, big badass Dave. Dee appears to be only slightly deluded, locking out opposing views. Those are too "uncomfortable" for brainwashed folk. Maybe you'd prefer your other favorite, the Waffen SS outfit. Not my bag at all. Waffen SS is SO YOU! :-) The rest of the radio world thinks of morse code as a "Once Was," and such isn't in any "2nd," nor "3rd," nor any category. :-) As soon as the "rest of the radio world" gets to dictate what happens in amateur radio, I'll begin to worry. Actually, they DO sometimes dictate. Administrations do what is called Spectrum Management based on the needs of ALL in the electromagnetic spectrum and frequency assignments. YOU can't get what you want, no matter if you've been in ham radio for four decades. :-) Tsk, tsk, tsk. ONLY in amateur radio is that old 1844 morse code considered an ultimate skill achievement worthy of amateur radio license "qualification!" Wow! Maybe you've noticed the name of the newsgroup. Maybe you've noticed your head isn't on straight... You offend quite a number of folks, Len. Yes, it's awful. The number is at least 3. TS. Perhaps Coslo might make it 4. Coslonaut wants so much to be an olde-tymer he'll even refer to himself as an "extra lite" to show his sycophantsies (e.g. synchronous fantasies). All are NOT required to march to the same beat of the same drummer. You want to drum the cadence but you would be better off to beat it. |
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K4YZ wrote:
wrote: Perhaps Coslo might make it 4. Coslonaut wants so much to be an olde-tymer he'll even refer to himself as an "extra lite" to show his sycophantsies (e.g. synchronous fantasies). I didn't notice that in the original post. What a very, very odd thing to type.......... One of the first times I have been accused of trying to impress others. Go figure. Mostly I just irritate others. - Mike KB3EIA - |
Mike Coslo wrote:
K4YZ wrote: wrote: Perhaps Coslo might make it 4. Coslonaut wants so much to be an olde-tymer he'll even refer to himself as an "extra lite" to show his sycophantsies (e.g. synchronous fantasies). I didn't notice that in the original post. What a very, very odd thing to type.......... It is the latest in a very long string of very odd things which Leonard has typed. One of the first times I have been accused of trying to impress others. Go figure. Mostly I just irritate others. Mike, Mike, Mike. You have a callsign. You're guilty of trying to impress Len. Dave K8MN |
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Dee Flint wrote: "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... [snip] As the future would pan out, we have lost numbers, and a lot of them the Non-coded types. As a ship that is almost stopped proves, turning the rudder does almost nothing, or when the interest rate goes very low, adjusting it does almost nothing, eliminating the 5WPM Morse code will have no positive effect on the numbers of new hams, and the most likely effect will be that with the lesser effort, more and more will get into the hobby with only slight interest, and then drop out. That is not what we need. Hey, do I get a prize for that freakin' long sentence? - Mike KB3EIA - How does it stack up against some of Edgar Allan Poe's sentences? I know he wrote some doozies when it came to length. Yeah. Now that guy could write! He was a pretty fair amateur physicist too. - Mike KB3EIA - |
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Dave Heil wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote: K4YZ wrote: wrote: Perhaps Coslo might make it 4. Coslonaut wants so much to be an olde-tymer he'll even refer to himself as an "extra lite" to show his sycophantsies (e.g. synchronous fantasies). I didn't notice that in the original post. What a very, very odd thing to type.......... It is the latest in a very long string of very odd things which Leonard has typed. One of the first times I have been accused of trying to impress others. Go figure. Mostly I just irritate others. Mike, Mike, Mike. You have a callsign. You're guilty of trying to impress Len. Heck, I've had it all wrong, Dave. I thouhgt having a callsign *offended* him! Maybe he's right and I am a little dull... - mike KB3EIA - |
Michael Coslo wrote: wrote: Perhaps Coslo might make it 4. Coslonaut wants so much to be an olde-tymer he'll even refer to himself as an "extra lite" to show his sycophantsies (e.g. synchronous fantasies). No Len, you don't offend me. It's kinda hard to be "offended" when you realize the person doing the "offending" is such an idiot. Kinda like the guy who walks up to a park bench, picks up the "Wet Paint" sign, sits down, then complains about the wet paint. It's just that Lennie walks up to the bench, looks around to see if anyone's watching, picks up the sign and sits down, then screams at the top of his lungs how they came along and painted the bench while he was still on it. Wadda putz. Steve, K4YZ |
Dee Flint wrote: "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... [snip] As the future would pan out, we have lost numbers, and a lot of them the Non-coded types. As a ship that is almost stopped proves, turning the rudder does almost nothing, or when the interest rate goes very low, adjusting it does almost nothing, eliminating the 5WPM Morse code will have no positive effect on the numbers of new hams, and the most likely effect will be that with the lesser effort, more and more will get into the hobby with only slight interest, and then drop out. That is not what we need. Hey, do I get a prize for that freakin' long sentence? - Mike KB3EIA - How does it stack up against some of Edgar Allan Poe's sentences? I know he wrote some doozies when it came to length. I think you'll find that James Joyce holds all the long-sentence records. And that Sweet Lenny holds all the records for irrelevant sentences. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv |
Michael Coslo wrote:
Dave Heil wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: K4YZ wrote: wrote: Perhaps Coslo might make it 4. Coslonaut wants so much to be an olde-tymer he'll even refer to himself as an "extra lite" to show his sycophantsies (e.g. synchronous fantasies). I didn't notice that in the original post. What a very, very odd thing to type.......... It is the latest in a very long string of very odd things which Leonard has typed. One of the first times I have been accused of trying to impress others. Go figure. Mostly I just irritate others. Mike, Mike, Mike. You have a callsign. You're guilty of trying to impress Len. Heck, I've had it all wrong, Dave. I thouhgt having a callsign *offended* him! Maybe he's right and I am a little dull... Trying to impress him offends him. That would, in Len-speak, make you "overly-proud". Next thing you know, Len'll be picturing you in an invisible Waffen SS uniform and his thoughts will drift to having you punish him. It gets really strange *after* that. Dave K8MN |
Dave Heil wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: Dave Heil wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: K4YZ wrote: wrote: Perhaps Coslo might make it 4. Coslonaut wants so much to be an olde-tymer he'll even refer to himself as an "extra lite" to show his sycophantsies (e.g. synchronous fantasies). I didn't notice that in the original post. What a very, very odd thing to type.......... It is the latest in a very long string of very odd things which Leonard has typed. One of the first times I have been accused of trying to impress others. Go figure. Mostly I just irritate others. Mike, Mike, Mike. You have a callsign. You're guilty of trying to impress Len. Heck, I've had it all wrong, Dave. I thouhgt having a callsign *offended* him! Maybe he's right and I am a little dull... Trying to impress him offends him. That would, in Len-speak, make you "overly-proud". Next thing you know, Len'll be picturing you in an invisible Waffen SS uniform and his thoughts will drift to having you punish him. It gets really strange *after* that. Do I at least get to wear regular underwear? I hope.... - Mike KB3EIA - |
Mike Coslo wrote:
Dave Heil wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: Dave Heil wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: K4YZ wrote: wrote: Perhaps Coslo might make it 4. Coslonaut wants so much to be an olde-tymer he'll even refer to himself as an "extra lite" to show his sycophantsies (e.g. synchronous fantasies). I didn't notice that in the original post. What a very, very odd thing to type.......... It is the latest in a very long string of very odd things which Leonard has typed. One of the first times I have been accused of trying to impress others. Go figure. Mostly I just irritate others. Mike, Mike, Mike. You have a callsign. You're guilty of trying to impress Len. Heck, I've had it all wrong, Dave. I thouhgt having a callsign *offended* him! Maybe he's right and I am a little dull... Trying to impress him offends him. That would, in Len-speak, make you "overly-proud". Next thing you know, Len'll be picturing you in an invisible Waffen SS uniform and his thoughts will drift to having you punish him. It gets really strange *after* that. Do I at least get to wear regular underwear? I hope.... I dunno, Mike. It's Len's fantasy. Dave K8MN |
wrote: wrote: Alun L. Palmer wrote: wrote in news:1108745797.245365.147250 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: Alun L. Palmer wrote: wrote in news:1108665611.010471.49400 @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: But emulating Sweden is OK huh? n3kip w3rv Sure, why not? BINGO: There it is. Old Europe. Sez it all. Not in your lifetime Alun. 'Bye. w3rv We have very different political views. OBVIOUSLY. I don't know how you would classify yourself, but by European standards you are very far to the right indeed, I'm a centrist Republican a la Sen. Arlen Specter, a member of a disapperaing breed. Sadly disappearing! Ted Kennedy is a right-winger by Old Europe standards. Yup. Welcome to America. as by no stretch is Sweden a socialist country. Blather. It's a country which uses it's outrageous taxes on it's few monster "capitalist" smokestack industries to hand out socialist entitlements to it's population on a scale unheard of in any other country. Entitlments being the heart of socialism in all it's forms. Sven the fender-hanger at the SAAB plant didn't "feel good" yesterday so he stayed home and watched the tube. No problem, he got paid anyway under Swedish law. SAAB plant payrolls are bloated by 20% percent per unit out the door vs. the U.S & Japan because 20% of the SAAB workers "call in sick" every day. Absolute fact. GM got stupid and bought SAAB mostly to save the marque otherwise SAAB would have died years ago but GM is now mulling a pullout to cut their losses. The outflow of capital from Sweden to other countries has been appalling, check out the numbers and why it's happening and what the Swedish government is doing to stanch the bleeding. The reason the whole thing didn't collapse right away was that the smokestacks are/were big exporters, bringing in hard currency. I can no doubt go ten blocks around the compass from here in the suburbs of Philadelphia and find more businesses with ten or fewer employees than you'll find in all of Sweden. Why is that Alun?? Could it be that Swedish socialist economics stifles entrepreneurial capitalism which is the engine behind the astounding growth of the U.S. economy for over two centuries? Of course it is. As for myself, I used to be a card carrying member of the Conservative and Unionist Party in the UK, but I freely admit that I have drifted leftwards since then, very likely as a result of seeing at first hand the huge social inequalities in the USA. Certainly there are social inequalities in the U.S. The original Constitution plus it's Bill of Rights guarantees equality in all elections and in all courts in this country and nothing more. Translates into a system in which the fate of individuals depends on what they freely choose to do or not do with their lives. Those who choose to be slackers suffer the consequences they freely imposed on themselves so of course we wind up with "social inequalities" galore. Equality of rights and opportunities - not equality of outcomes. Add in some other points about Sweden: Compared to the USA, it's tiny in both population and land area. Also virtually homogeneous (again compared to the USA). 'Diversity' means something very different in Sweden. Heck, they split with Norway after less than 100 years of alliance IIRC. Rather, it was the Norwegians who split. And as everyone knows, they ARE weird. It's relatively easy and simple for a community/society to 'work' if it's small and uniform. USA is neither, and never has been. By your leftist standards our system has too many freedoms. If it's called being a socialist to think that the ordinary working man should be able to get medical care without courting bankruptcy, then I suppose that makes me a socialist, but if you actually look in a dictionary, then you will see that I am not, and neither are the Swedes. See above. Health care is only one issue. Is W3RV's info about SAAB accurate or not? Should American industry work the same way? American industry works in the way that the government ensures they have no competition. And if the industries become unprofitable anyway, the government pumps money into it to keep it afloat. This is unlike, for instance, Sweden, where they have this thing called a "market economy" which means that if a company cannot survive in competition with other companies, the company will simply die. On the other hand, it's easier and less bureaucratic to start a new company in Sweden. The way Swedes see it, what the United States has is a more socialist system than Sweden has. And the Swedish government always tries to make other countries realize that a market economic system would be good for them. Unfortunately most people seem to be strong believers in socialism. socialism // n. 1 a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the community as a whole should own and control the means of production, distribution, and exchange. Oh**** . . the second coming of Cecil and his friggin' dictionaries .. . ! 2 policy or practice based on this theory. socialist n. & adj. socialistic // adj. socialistically // adv. [French socialisme (as social)] "community as a whole" = "the government" Sure seems to fit! 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Dave Heil wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote: Dave Heil wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: Dave Heil wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: K4YZ wrote: wrote: Perhaps Coslo might make it 4. Coslonaut wants so much to be an olde-tymer he'll even refer to himself as an "extra lite" to show his sycophantsies (e.g. synchronous fantasies). I didn't notice that in the original post. What a very, very odd thing to type.......... It is the latest in a very long string of very odd things which Leonard has typed. One of the first times I have been accused of trying to impress others. Go figure. Mostly I just irritate others. Mike, Mike, Mike. You have a callsign. You're guilty of trying to impress Len. Heck, I've had it all wrong, Dave. I thouhgt having a callsign *offended* him! Maybe he's right and I am a little dull... Trying to impress him offends him. That would, in Len-speak, make you "overly-proud". Next thing you know, Len'll be picturing you in an invisible Waffen SS uniform and his thoughts will drift to having you punish him. It gets really strange *after* that. Do I at least get to wear regular underwear? I hope.... I dunno, Mike. It's Len's fantasy. ARGGHHHHH! I give up Dave, Uncle, Uncle! You've succedded in totally grossing me out! 8^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
Mike Coslo wrote:
Dave Heil wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: Dave Heil wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: Dave Heil wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: K4YZ wrote: wrote: Perhaps Coslo might make it 4. Coslonaut wants so much to be an olde-tymer he'll even refer to himself as an "extra lite" to show his sycophantsies (e.g. synchronous fantasies). I didn't notice that in the original post. What a very, very odd thing to type.......... It is the latest in a very long string of very odd things which Leonard has typed. One of the first times I have been accused of trying to impress others. Go figure. Mostly I just irritate others. Mike, Mike, Mike. You have a callsign. You're guilty of trying to impress Len. Heck, I've had it all wrong, Dave. I thouhgt having a callsign *offended* him! Maybe he's right and I am a little dull... Trying to impress him offends him. That would, in Len-speak, make you "overly-proud". Next thing you know, Len'll be picturing you in an invisible Waffen SS uniform and his thoughts will drift to having you punish him. It gets really strange *after* that. Do I at least get to wear regular underwear? I hope.... I dunno, Mike. It's Len's fantasy. ARGGHHHHH! I give up Dave, Uncle, Uncle! You've succedded in totally grossing me out! 8^) Oh heck, Mike. That's nothing. None of that stuff phases me. I'd begin to be weirded out if Len were to suddenly take a liking to me, to begin being cordial, to act as if there were other people on the planet who knew as much or more about a subject than he does. If he dropped his wild rants about the Church of St. Hiram, Sermons on the Antenna Mount, his claims of being a PROFESSIONAL, his not-so-subtle references to Mr. Glock or his belittling of the careers of others, I'd be nervous that something quite unpleasant was about to take place. Then it dawns on me: How much worse could it get? Dave K8MN |
Dave Heil wrote: Then it dawns on me: How much worse could it get? I think any abrupt change, even if it means having to tell the truth, would, from Lennie, be a "death bed confession"...! 73 Steve, K4YZ |
Dave Heil wrote: Then it dawns on me: How much worse could it get? I think any abrupt change, even if it means having to tell the truth, would, from Lennie, be a "death bed confession"...! 73 Steve, K4YZ |
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