N9OGL...Another RRAP Engineering Hero..?!?! Move Over Lennie!
 

QUOTE: (With poundsigns substituting the profanities)

Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy

From: "N9OGL" - Find messages by this author

Date: 15 Mar 2005 08:22:11 -0800
Local: Tues, Mar 15 2005 8:22 am

Subject: How Stupid Can N9OGL REALLY Get And Still Be Mistaken For
Human?

LOOK YOU LITTLE ####, I'VE INVENTED MORE #### IN MY ####ING LIFE TIME
THEN YOU EVER EVER WILL!!! I WILL NOT GIVE A ####ING ###HOLE, WHO GETS
ON SOME ##### ### NEWSGROUP THE PLEASURE OF ANY OF MY INVENTIONS. SO GO
PLAY WITH YOUR LITTLE BUTT BUDDIES BATHROOMAN AND JULIO DEJESUS

TODD N9OGL
THE N9OGL SHOW

UNQUOTE

I wonder how long it will take Toddie to ante up to his grandiose
claims?

I say he's lying. (For Lennie and Brian Burke's benefit, a "lie"
is when someone is not telling the truth...Kinda like this creep is
doing here...)

Steve, K4YZ

For your information you redneck, I've started another page where I
plan to post all my idea's and inventions........my question to you is,
what the have you ever invented.....Answer NOTHING, because like all
the other licensed CB operators on here you don't have the brains to
invent, only to badmouth people on and off the air.

Todd N9OGL

http://n9oglinvents.blogspot.com/

N9OGL wrote:

For your information you redneck, I've started another page where I
plan to post all my idea's and inventions........my question to you is,
what the have you ever invented.....Answer NOTHING, because like all
the other licensed CB operators on here you don't have the brains to
invent, only to badmouth people on and off the air.

Todd N9OGL

http://n9oglinvents.blogspot.com/

What inventions? This is all I see? What did you invent? Packet? The
internet?

Todd Daugherty

* Age: 36
* Gender: male
* Astrological Sign: Cancer
* Born in the Year of the: Monkey
* Location: Taylorville : Illinois : United States

About Me

I lived in a small community most of my life. I am a ham radio operator
and I really enjoy writing and reading.
Never mind the turtle. Don't you think you're sure to win?

no
Interests

* Writing
* Radio
* Reading
* Flying
* Anime

Favorite Movies

* Science-Fiction
* Horror
* Anime

Favorite Music

* I like all sorts of music

Favorite Books

* I like horror
* Science-fiction
* and books dealing with physics

Blogs
Blog Name Recent Posts Total Posts Team Members
The Voice of Amateur Radio n/a n/a
N9OGL'S INVENTIONS n/a n/a

KC8GXW wrote:
N9OGL wrote:

For your information you redneck, I've started another page where I
plan to post all my idea's and inventions........my question to you
is,
what the have you ever invented.....Answer NOTHING, because like
all
the other licensed CB operators on here you don't have the brains
to
invent, only to badmouth people on and off the air.

Todd N9OGL

http://n9oglinvents.blogspot.com/

What inventions? This is all I see? What did you invent? Packet? The
internet?

Todd Daugherty

* Age: 36
* Gender: male
* Astrological Sign: Cancer
* Born in the Year of the: Monkey
* Location: Taylorville : Illinois : United States

About Me

I lived in a small community most of my life. I am a ham radio
operator
and I really enjoy writing and reading.
Never mind the turtle. Don't you think you're sure to win?

no
Interests

* Writing
* Radio
* Reading
* Flying
* Anime

Favorite Movies

* Science-Fiction
* Horror
* Anime

Favorite Music

* I like all sorts of music

Favorite Books

* I like horror
* Science-fiction
* and books dealing with physics

Blogs
Blog Name Recent Posts Total Posts Team Members

The Voice of Amateur Radio n/a n/a
N9OGL'S INVENTIONS n/a n/a

First off I just started that blog today, so aturally there isn't going
to be anthing there. Right now I don't have the time because I'm
getting ready to go school. The whole purpose of that blog was because
some cry babies on here was calling me a liar, which I am not. So if
you don't want to be creative my suggestion to you is stay here in the
this newsgroup with all the other dumbass appliance users.

Todd N9OGL

N9OGL wrote:

For your information you redneck, I've started another page where I
plan to post all my idea's and inventions........my question to you is,
what the have you ever invented.....Answer NOTHING, because like all
the other licensed CB operators on here you don't have the brains to
invent, only to badmouth people on and off the air.


I have a few inventions, see
http://home.netcom.com/~wa2ise/radios/patents.htm
All have been assigned to whatever company I was at
when I did them, but I still get bragging rights.

K1MAN wantabe wrote:
KC8GXW wrote:

N9OGL wrote:


For your information you redneck, I've started another page where I
plan to post all my idea's and inventions........my question to you

is,

what the have you ever invented.....Answer NOTHING, because like

all

the other licensed CB operators on here you don't have the brains

to

invent, only to badmouth people on and off the air.

Todd N9OGL

http://n9oglinvents.blogspot.com/

What inventions? This is all I see? What did you invent? Packet? The
internet?

Todd Daugherty

* Age: 36
* Gender: male
* Astrological Sign: Cancer
* Born in the Year of the: Monkey
* Location: Taylorville : Illinois : United States

About Me

I lived in a small community most of my life. I am a ham radio

operator

and I really enjoy writing and reading.
Never mind the turtle. Don't you think you're sure to win?

no
Interests

* Writing
* Radio
* Reading
* Flying
* Anime

Favorite Movies

* Science-Fiction
* Horror
* Anime

Favorite Music

* I like all sorts of music

Favorite Books

* I like horror
* Science-fiction
* and books dealing with physics

Blogs
Blog Name Recent Posts Total Posts Team Members


The Voice of Amateur Radio n/a n/a
N9OGL'S INVENTIONS n/a n/a


First off I just started that blog today,

Well first off, I have no idea when you started that blog.

so aturally there isn't going to be anthing there.

Please use a spell checker!

Right now I don't have the time because I'm
getting ready to go school. The whole purpose of that blog was because
some cry babies on here was calling me a liar, which I am not.

I asked what your inventions were but you don't have time to tell me
even one, but you had time to come here and post all this bs.

So if you don't want to be creative my suggestion to you is stay here in the
this newsgroup with all the other dumbass appliance users.

Todd N9OGL

You put up a page and brag about yourself but then don't post the info
that you are braging about? You are a pompous ass to call everybody here
dumbass appliance users.
I went to QRZ and saw your picture, man are you gay looking!

The moron wrote:
KC8GXW wrote:

N9OGL wrote:


For your information you redneck, I've started another page where I
plan to post all my idea's and inventions........my question to you

is,

what the have you ever invented.....Answer NOTHING, because like

all

the other licensed CB operators on here you don't have the brains

to

invent, only to badmouth people on and off the air.

Todd N9OGL

http://n9oglinvents.blogspot.com/

What inventions? This is all I see? What did you invent? Packet? The
internet?

Todd Daugherty

* Age: 36
* Gender: male
* Astrological Sign: Cancer
* Born in the Year of the: Monkey
* Location: Taylorville : Illinois : United States

About Me

I lived in a small community most of my life. I am a ham radio

operator

and I really enjoy writing and reading.
Never mind the turtle. Don't you think you're sure to win?

no
Interests

* Writing
* Radio
* Reading
* Flying
* Anime

Favorite Movies

* Science-Fiction
* Horror
* Anime

Favorite Music

* I like all sorts of music

Favorite Books

* I like horror
* Science-fiction
* and books dealing with physics

Blogs
Blog Name Recent Posts Total Posts Team Members


The Voice of Amateur Radio n/a n/a
N9OGL'S INVENTIONS n/a n/a


First off I just started that blog today, so aturally there isn't going
to be anthing there. Right now I don't have the time because I'm
getting ready to go school. The whole purpose of that blog was because
some cry babies on here was calling me a liar, which I am not. So if
you don't want to be creative my suggestion to you is stay here in the
this newsgroup with all the other dumbass appliance users.

Todd N9OGL

The moron said "when I asked to prove it they invaded the question."
How the hell do you invade a question?
The picture on you site is gayer than the one on QRZ.
I'm all for education but you have to realize that a Community College
isn't a University!

N9OGL wrote: (without citing whom he was responding to)

For your information you redneck, I've started another page where I
plan to post all my idea's and inventions........my question to you
is,
what the have you ever invented.....Answer NOTHING, because like all
the other licensed CB operators on here you don't have the brains to
invent, only to badmouth people on and off the air.

Todd...So far you've proved yourself to be the idiot that you've
led us all to believe you are, and this was proof of it.

And what have I invented? Nothing. However I've been
decorated five times for lifesaving.

That beats anything Ronco or K-Tel could sell me at 3AM, Mr
Wizard.

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

N9OGL wrote:

First off I just started that blog today, so aturally there isn't
going
to be anthing there.

"aturally" there's nothing there because you've not done what you
claim you have.

Right now I don't have the time because I'm
getting ready to go school.

Ahhhhhhh...I seeeeeeee! You have to to place all these posts
announcing your new blog and DISclaiming my assertions, but you DON'T
have time to simply say "I invented instant coffee", or "I created the
Internet", or what ever wonderful thing it was.......

Simply answering the questions on the NG would have taken you less
than 2 minutes.

You had to take at least half an hour to answer these posts and
activate the new blog.

An extremely lame diversion, Todd. My 13 year old could come up
with a better diversion than that.

The whole purpose of that blog was because
some cry babies on here was calling me a liar, which I am not.

You're the only cry baby, Todd, and yes, you are lying.

So if
you don't want to be creative my suggestion to you is stay here in
the
this newsgroup with all the other dumbass appliance users.

Hey Todd...YOU are the one who wants to carry on QSO's with his
microwave oven...Not us...!!!

Putz

Steve, K4YZ

N9OGL wrote: (without citing whom he was responding to)
For your information you redneck, I've started another page where I
plan to post all my idea's and inventions........

Been there; seen that. There's currently one "invention" listed which
has absolutely NOTHING to offer the Amateur Radio service.

Let me repeat here this one key point: Internet communications =!
radiocommunications.

As an aside - the "invention" relies on the use of peer-to-peer I-net
networking run in conjunction with local packet nodes for content
forwarding. What amateur radio packet BBS SysOp in his or her right
mind is going to allow their station to be used as a conduit for
traffic from things such as Kazaa, Limewire and so forth?

In short, that's what was proposed.

Again - Internet communications =! radiocommunications. In this case,
there are some very, very good reasons for wanting the two kept
separate...

Tightly regulating the P2P apps which are allowed to connect into the
nodes might be one way of addressing these concerns. But isn't this
just a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?

Let us also not forget the possibility of the network being abused as a
warez/music/movie distribution pipe. I for one would d@mn sure not want
the resultant heat THAT would generate to happen to ham radio.

FROM N9OGL INVENTION WEBSITE:

I've read your post on the newsgroup, and I have a few things to say,
This system would not be hooked into Kazaa or limewire or any other p2p
network. It would be a network that only amatuer would be able to use
(like Echolink). As for Warz, Movies and Music, Movies would be hard to
download on this system because the network is "bottlenecked" at the
node site. The same would also apply to music and warz, it wouldn't
work because of the speed on the radio side and the "bottleneck" at the
site.






Mr. Obvious wrote:
N9OGL wrote: (without citing whom he was responding to)
For your information you redneck, I've started another page where I
plan to post all my idea's and inventions........

Been there; seen that. There's currently one "invention" listed which
has absolutely NOTHING to offer the Amateur Radio service.

Let me repeat here this one key point: Internet communications =!
radiocommunications.

As an aside - the "invention" relies on the use of peer-to-peer I-net
networking run in conjunction with local packet nodes for content
forwarding. What amateur radio packet BBS SysOp in his or her right
mind is going to allow their station to be used as a conduit for
traffic from things such as Kazaa, Limewire and so forth?

In short, that's what was proposed.

Again - Internet communications =! radiocommunications. In this case,
there are some very, very good reasons for wanting the two kept
separate...

Tightly regulating the P2P apps which are allowed to connect into the
nodes might be one way of addressing these concerns. But isn't this
just a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?

Let us also not forget the possibility of the network being abused as
a
warez/music/movie distribution pipe. I for one would d@mn sure not
want
the resultant heat THAT would generate to happen to ham radio.

On 16 Mar 2005 00:26:15 -0800, K4YZ wrote:

I wonder how long it will take Toddie to ante up to his grandiose
claims?

Are delusions of grandeur better than no grandeur at all ??

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

N9OGL wrote:
FROM N9OGL INVENTION WEBSITE:

I've read your post on the newsgroup, and I have a few things to say,
This system would not be hooked into Kazaa or limewire or any other
p2p
network. It would be a network that only amatuer would be able to use
(like Echolink). As for Warz, Movies and Music, Movies would be hard
to
download on this system because the network is "bottlenecked" at the
node site. The same would also apply to music and warz, it wouldn't
work because of the speed on the radio side and the "bottleneck" at
the
site.

This is an "idea"...NOT an "invention". Guess they didn't teach
you the difference in college there, Toddie-boy! Get your money back,
quick!

And who the heck WANTS a "bottlenecked" communications
gateway...?!?!

Sheeeesh! What an IDIOT!

Steve, K4YZ

At this point it's still a solution looking for a problem.

Seriously.

MSYS, FBB and several other radio-based BBS systems will do all of what
you described. With MSYS, you have the ability to serve content from
callbook CDs or other mounted media - so a "Sale" or "Mods" directory
could be readily served up.

"...It would be a network that only amatuer would be able to use
(like Echolink)..."

Who is going to develop this app? Or is there one currently available?
How do you verify that -only amateur radio operators- can access the
I-net sites? IOW, what does your security model look like? Which parts
of the path are to be encrypted (so as to protect login credentials,
for example) and by what means will the encryption be accomplished?

I know a bit about this area, and can unequivocally say thay security
in such a system would not be trivial. Nor would the potential for
abuse, especially if there is any type of connection to it that can
directly be reached through the Internet. Choose your operating system
(platform) unwisely and the headaches become even bigger.

"K4YZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

N9OGL wrote:
FROM N9OGL INVENTION WEBSITE:

I've read your post on the newsgroup, and I have a few things to say,
This system would not be hooked into Kazaa or limewire or any other
p2p
network. It would be a network that only amatuer would be able to use
(like Echolink). As for Warz, Movies and Music, Movies would be hard
to
download on this system because the network is "bottlenecked" at the
node site. The same would also apply to music and warz, it wouldn't
work because of the speed on the radio side and the "bottleneck" at
the
site.

This is an "idea"...NOT an "invention". Guess they didn't teach
you the difference in college there, Toddie-boy! Get your money back,
quick!

And who the heck WANTS a "bottlenecked" communications
gateway...?!?!

Sheeeesh! What an IDIOT!

Steve, K4YZ



When is k4yz going to post proof that MAN was cited, fined, etc. ?
Well?

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
ganews.com...
On 16 Mar 2005 00:26:15 -0800, K4YZ wrote:

I wonder how long it will take Toddie to ante up to his grandiose
claims?

Are delusions of grandeur better than no grandeur at all ??

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane




You ought to know.

73,

Lloyd

"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

N9OGL wrote:

First off I just started that blog today, so aturally there isn't
going
to be anthing there.

"aturally" there's nothing there because you've not done what you
claim you have.

Right now I don't have the time because I'm
getting ready to go school.

Ahhhhhhh...I seeeeeeee! You have to to place all these posts
announcing your new blog and DISclaiming my assertions, but you DON'T
have time to simply say "I invented instant coffee", or "I created the
Internet", or what ever wonderful thing it was.......

Simply answering the questions on the NG would have taken you less
than 2 minutes.

You had to take at least half an hour to answer these posts and
activate the new blog.

An extremely lame diversion, Todd. My 13 year old could come up
with a better diversion than that.

The whole purpose of that blog was because
some cry babies on here was calling me a liar, which I am not.

You're the only cry baby, Todd, and yes, you are lying.

So if
you don't want to be creative my suggestion to you is stay here in
the
this newsgroup with all the other dumbass appliance users.

Hey Todd...YOU are the one who wants to carry on QSO's with his
microwave oven...Not us...!!!

Putz

Steve, K4YZ



Hey Putz, when are you going to post proof k1man was cited or
sanctioned?

Well?

73,

Lloyd

"K4YZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

N9OGL wrote: (without citing whom he was responding to)

For your information you redneck, I've started another page where I
plan to post all my idea's and inventions........my question to you
is,
what the have you ever invented.....Answer NOTHING, because like all
the other licensed CB operators on here you don't have the brains to
invent, only to badmouth people on and off the air.

Todd...So far you've proved yourself to be the idiot that you've
led us all to believe you are, and this was proof of it.

And what have I invented? Nothing. However I've been
decorated five times for lifesaving.

That beats anything Ronco or K-Tel could sell me at 3AM, Mr
Wizard.

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ



When are you going to post proof k1man was sanctioned putz?

73,

Lloyd

"K4YZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

N9OGL wrote:
FROM N9OGL INVENTION WEBSITE:

I've read your post on the newsgroup, and I have a few things to say,
This system would not be hooked into Kazaa or limewire or any other
p2p
network. It would be a network that only amatuer would be able to use
(like Echolink). As for Warz, Movies and Music, Movies would be hard
to
download on this system because the network is "bottlenecked" at the
node site. The same would also apply to music and warz, it wouldn't
work because of the speed on the radio side and the "bottleneck" at
the
site.

This is an "idea"...NOT an "invention". Guess they didn't teach
you the difference in college there, Toddie-boy! Get your money back,
quick!

And who the heck WANTS a "bottlenecked" communications
gateway...?!?!

Sheeeesh! What an IDIOT!

Steve, K4YZ



When is k4yz going to post proof k1man was sanctioned?

I'm
getting ready to go school.

That's a good boy, Toddy, get all ready to go school. After school we
play radios at your house. Then we get busted microwave out of twash
and make twansmitter. We take it school for show and tell in special
education class. We tell other peoples not to tweak the twansmitter.

Mr. Obvious wrote:
At this point it's still a solution looking for a problem.

Seriously.

MSYS, FBB and several other radio-based BBS systems will do all of
what
you described. With MSYS, you have the ability to serve content from
callbook CDs or other mounted media - so a "Sale" or "Mods" directory
could be readily served up.

MSYS, and FBB are good programs...old, but good, however, compared to
today software, they are outdated, and not USER FRIENDLY.

"...It would be a network that only amatuer would be able to use
(like Echolink)..."

Who is going to develop this app? Or is there one currently
available?
How do you verify that -only amateur radio operators- can access the
I-net sites? IOW, what does your security model look like? Which
parts
of the path are to be encrypted (so as to protect login credentials,
for example) and by what means will the encryption be accomplished?

There is a lot of P2P software that is out there that is "Open Source"
Software, meaning you can downloaded a uncompiled version and program
it the way you want. So you can create filters so certain files can't
go through the system like MPEGS, and AVI files (movie files) or MP3
(Music files) I would suggest if you intrested in it to get some books
on P2P. The network would be set up like this: a Users lets say K4YZ
clicks on a icon of the P2P SOFWARE lets say it's called AMP2PNet, the
software would connect him to the network via a radio node. The P2P
nodes on the internet would be set up with either IP address or "web
address" (like what echolink has) and these would only be known to the
program and the system operator. Only amateur would only be able to
connect to this network via radio, all of the "Super Nodes" which are
on the web would be encrypted. So in other words if you wanted to uses
the system you would have to get on packet. The software would only be
handed out to amateurs and would have a callsign varifcation system.
also logging into the network you would be using your callsign to log
in (this again is only allowed over the radio)


I know a bit about this area, and can unequivocally say thay security
in such a system would not be trivial. Nor would the potential for
abuse, especially if there is any type of connection to it that can
directly be reached through the Internet. Choose your operating
system
(platform) unwisely and the headaches become even bigger.

Like I stated above the only way you could log into this system would
be over radio. The Super nodes which are on the internet are encrypted
and the internet side is mainly a "user Backbone system" so users can
connect via 2 meter---over the internet-----to another user on the
radio.

Todd N9OGL

This is an "idea"...NOT an "invention". Guess they didn't teach
you the difference in college there, Toddie-boy! Get your money back,

quick!



It's an idea i'm working on.....I right now working on the software,
but my skills in C++ / Java Script isn't very good so I'm going to
school to learn. but anyone who wishes to come up with some software
before me can do so.....and Oh, You have to have Idea before you come
up with an invention.....or perhaps they did teach you that down south.


And who the heck WANTS a "bottlenecked" communications
gateway...?!?!

It really don't have to be "bottlenecked" I know that there is some
WI-FI systems that are out there that run in our ham bands that
transmit wireless data as high as 10Mb so it can be "bottlenecked" on 2
meters or not "bottlenecked" at those higher frequencies.

Todd N9OGL

N9OGL wrote:

Like I stated above the only way you could log into this system would
be over radio.

Which means nothing.

The Super nodes which are on the internet are encrypted
and the internet side is mainly a "user Backbone system" so users can
connect via 2 meter---over the internet-----to another user on the
radio.

Someone slap that idiot and tell him it's already been done.

Sheeeeesh.

Steve, K4YZ

"K4YZ" wrote in message
ps.com...

N9OGL wrote:

Like I stated above the only way you could log into this system would
be over radio.

Which means nothing.

The Super nodes which are on the internet are encrypted
and the internet side is mainly a "user Backbone system" so users can
connect via 2 meter---over the internet-----to another user on the
radio.

Someone slap that idiot and tell him it's already been done.

Sheeeeesh.

Steve, K4YZ




When is the idiot k4yz going to post proof that k1man was cited
by the commission?

Lloyd wrote:
"K4YZ" wrote in message
ps.com...

N9OGL wrote:

Like I stated above the only way you could log into this system
would
be over radio.

Which means nothing.

The Super nodes which are on the internet are encrypted
and the internet side is mainly a "user Backbone system" so users
can
connect via 2 meter---over the internet-----to another user on the
radio.

Someone slap that idiot and tell him it's already been done.

Sheeeeesh.

When is the idiot k4yz going to post proof that k1man was cited
by the commission?

Done deal. A simple Google search.

I wonder if that idiot LLoydie will apologize or snivvel out.

I vote on the snivvelling.

Steve, K4YZ

We're still talking about peer-to-peer software, right?

Which leads to my next question: Where in the Amateur Packet Radio
service is there a need to transfer files in such a manner?
Peer-to-peer software was created to facilitate the transfer of FILES.
The current iterations of most popular BBS software, on the other hand,
can transfer such things as text bulletins, sale ads and so forth just
fine.

"...There is a lot of P2P software that is out there that is "Open
Source"
Software, meaning you can downloaded a uncompiled version and program
it the way you want. So you can create filters so certain files can't
go through the system like MPEGS, and AVI files (movie files) or MP3
(Music files) I would suggest if you intrested in it to get some books
on P2P..."

(I just -might- know a little more than you think I do about this
subject...but that's another discussion for another thread; another
time.)

Back to my original thought: How does the introduction of the Internet
into a ham-to-ham virtual circuit benefit -RADIO- in any way, shape or
form?

I take it that you have never run a packet BBS, correct?

Are you familiar with the file-splitting and transmission capabilities
of various existing user-mode software? Joe wants to share a new
program with Ralph, so he splits it and uploads it to the local packet
BBS, where Ralph downloads it. Acceptable thus far, right? It isn't
when the program in question is copyrighted; we'll forego the file size
limitations of the current RADIO-based network for purposes of this
discussion. Tracking these uploads are a headache that most SysOps will
gladly do without, especially if that content will land you in legal
hot water.

Further, a number of PBBS SysOps incorporated I-net-based forwarding of
traffic years back. A vast amount of non-ham-related 3rd-party traffic
began to filter into the packet network as a result; along the circuits
were several countries whose 3rd-party traffic laws were different than
those of the U.S. Many nights were spent writing filters to keep the
U.S.-based systems in compliance...and a system such as you propose
would be subject to the same set of dynamics, if it was indeed
multinational.

"....Like I stated above the only way you could log into this system
would
be over radio. The Super nodes which are on the internet are encrypted
and the internet side is mainly a "user Backbone system" so users can
connect via 2 meter---over the internet-----to another user on the
radio..."

What will all this effort net us? You're still limited by the
capabilites of the end-users. I don't care if your I-net circuit
consists of gigabit fiberlink; if Joe and Ralph are running 1200bps
modems at their end, you're going to realize data transfer rates of no
faster than 1200bps.

The current system, as is designed and implemented, works fine. Write a
host mode program with a nice, pretty front end and you might sell it
to people. Incorporating P2P technology into said program is - as I've
stated before - a solution to a problem which simply doesn't exist.

Mr. Obvious wrote:
We're still talking about peer-to-peer software, right?

Which leads to my next question: Where in the Amateur Packet Radio
service is there a need to transfer files in such a manner?
Peer-to-peer software was created to facilitate the transfer of
FILES.
The current iterations of most popular BBS software, on the other
hand,
can transfer such things as text bulletins, sale ads and so forth
just
fine.


Well, like i said, MSYS and FBB are good programs but they are old and
there is software out there that is more "user friendly" amateur only
have to change the coding in them to work for ham radio. I'm not
suggestion that this be the "National" or "International" standard I'm
only suggesting this as an "alternative" to what is being used now.


"...There is a lot of P2P software that is out there that is "Open
Source"
Software, meaning you can downloaded a uncompiled version and program
it the way you want. So you can create filters so certain files can't
go through the system like MPEGS, and AVI files (movie files) or MP3
(Music files) I would suggest if you intrested in it to get some
books
on P2P..."

(I just -might- know a little more than you think I do about this
subject...but that's another discussion for another thread; another
time.)

Back to my original thought: How does the introduction of the
Internet
into a ham-to-ham virtual circuit benefit -RADIO- in any way, shape
or
form?
Look at Echolink, people still use HF but there's also echolink, as a
alternative. We uses to have a guy on my repeater from California who
would connect to my repeater through echolink, Because the nursing home
he was staying in wouldn't let him put up any antenna, thus that was an
alternative means to use amateur radio. This system would "benefit"
radio as and alternative to the normal 1200 baud packet.

I take it that you have never run a packet BBS, correct?

I've ran both MSYS and FBB for four years on two computers. I was big
in packet from 1992 to 1997/1998


Are you familiar with the file-splitting and transmission
capabilities
of various existing user-mode software? Joe wants to share a new
program with Ralph, so he splits it and uploads it to the local
packet
BBS, where Ralph downloads it. Acceptable thus far, right? It isn't
when the program in question is copyrighted; we'll forego the file
size
limitations of the current RADIO-based network for purposes of this
discussion. Tracking these uploads are a headache that most SysOps
will
gladly do without, especially if that content will land you in legal
hot water.

Well the reason I brought up the file size deal is; for BIG files even
on the internet through P2P takes a long time even with high speed DSL
it still takes a while. on this system we really don't want people
tighen yp the frequency because he's trying to download a 700 MB file
(like a Movie) The filter system which would block these "large" would
be in the software and would be unchangable.

Further, a number of PBBS SysOps incorporated I-net-based forwarding
of
traffic years back. A vast amount of non-ham-related 3rd-party
traffic
began to filter into the packet network as a result; along the
circuits
were several countries whose 3rd-party traffic laws were different
than
those of the U.S. Many nights were spent writing filters to keep the
U.S.-based systems in compliance...and a system such as you propose
would be subject to the same set of dynamics, if it was indeed
multinational.

That's were hams would have to be the network both on the radio, and on
the internet from scratch. again the only ones allowed to use the
software and the network would be the amateur radio operators. I'm only
one amateur, but I believe that an amateur radio station is responsible
for their what content they spew out and if they violate any laws it
will be easy to track down because they will be using their callsign. I
would also like to point out that federal law does not ban this type of
programs on the radio; amateurs are allowed to experiment and no
offense but it seems to me that you wan to keep the old system and
don't want any new ideas or programs which would conflict with the
status quo...or maybe i'm reading you wrong. but just remember that no
system is fail proof.


"....Like I stated above the only way you could log into this system
would
be over radio. The Super nodes which are on the internet are
encrypted
and the internet side is mainly a "user Backbone system" so users can
connect via 2 meter---over the internet-----to another user on the
radio..."

What will all this effort net us? You're still limited by the
capabilites of the end-users. I don't care if your I-net circuit
consists of gigabit fiberlink; if Joe and Ralph are running 1200bps
modems at their end, you're going to realize data transfer rates of
no
faster than 1200bps.

it would be 1200 baud on 2 meters but amateurs still have I believe 2.4
GHz and some of that wireless stuff will go as high as 10Mbps which
would be better because it would remove the bottleneck.

The current system, as is designed and implemented, works fine. Write
a
host mode program with a nice, pretty front end and you might sell it
to people. Incorporating P2P technology into said program is - as
I've
stated before - a solution to a problem which simply doesn't exist.

well, like i said it seems to me your like these guy on here....you
don't want change....and like I stated in a previous thread without
change ham radio will not grow.


Todd N9OGL

Oh, many of us WANT change...but not at the expense of the -RADIO-
portion of the hobby. Internet =! Radio. That fact has been pointed out
numerous times by those who design, maintain and operate the existing
packet radio network.

Do amateur radio operators need a high-speed packet-radio
infrastructure? Probably. Moreover, one can be built to exclusively
utilize RF as its transport mechanism; the Internet need not enter into
the picture whatsoever.

Once it's built and in place, the question arises: What to do with this
network? 10MBPS or higher would give excellent throughput for
high-volume traffic forwarding...which is about all you're going to be
able to -legally- do with it. (See previous remarks copyrighted
software, et al. The sentiment of most SysOps involved will be: It
ain't passing through my station. Period. ANY file other than
plaintext, that is...and rightly so.)

" That's were hams would have to be the network both on the radio, and
on
the internet from scratch. again the only ones allowed to use the
software and the network would be the amateur radio operators."

Again - how will you control access to this system? There's also the
matter of network security - put such a "node" on the Internet and I
guarantee that it will be hacked as soon a vulnerability with the
system is found.

"The filter system which would block these "large" would be in the
software and would be unchangable. "

Would you filter based on size alone? Actual content (type) of the
files? MD5 hash? I (and every other comptuer-savvy individual on the
planet) can easily bypass any of these schemes by manipulating the
files in certain ways...if the filtering is done via database, it would
be enormous and a true PITA to keep up to date. Thus, it would be
dropped in short order.

Looking at the whole proposal from a great height, it closely resembles
the existing AirMail/SailMail PACTOR systems...which operate under an
entirely different set of rules and regulations than does amateur radio.

N9OGL wrote:

The current system, as is designed and implemented, works fine.
Write
a
host mode program with a nice, pretty front end and you might sell
it
to people. Incorporating P2P technology into said program is - as
I've
stated before - a solution to a problem which simply doesn't exist.

well, like i said it seems to me your like these guy on here....you
don't want change....and like I stated in a previous thread without
change ham radio will not grow.

Amateur Radio is growing steadily...Without trying to immplement a
messaging system that is three generations old.

JUST like Lennie...So self impressed with your own "genius" that
you can't realize that you've just reinvented the wheel.

Steve, K4YZ

Here's a thread which describes quite succintly why the Internet and
"Ham Radio" should maintain some degree of separation, especially where
the transferral of binary files is concerned...

http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard....ST;f=7;t=85897

The boys on QRZ are just as moronic as these boys. They are ones who 1.
Don't want change 2. the Anti-K1MAN group and 3. would waste their
pathetic lives debating the CODE ISSUE.

Todd N9OGL

Oh, many of us WANT change...but not at the expense of the -RADIO-
portion of the hobby. Internet =! Radio. That fact has been pointed out

numerous times by those who design, maintain and operate the existing
packet radio network

The internet is there so use it. Let me tell you a story and this is
the truth. In Taylorville there is three repeaters, One owned by the
local club, one owned by N9FU and one owned by me. Out of all three
repeaters the one that gets the most use by people is mine. The reason,
IT'S HOOKED UP TO THE INTERNET. without that internet connect that
repeater would be just as dead as the others. NO ONE, and believe me
there's a lot of people who use our system (within one month we had
over 400 people connected to our system, that's not counting people
reconnecting....we have the logs to prove it) and not one of those
people bitched and complained about how the internet and radio
shouldn't interact. instead, the praised the idea. The people who bitch
about the internet and radio should interact is either 1. Are too old
of an traditionalist and think they shouldn't interact or 2. Don't
understand it, thus fear it and tries to discourage others from doing
it. (most of both groups are IMHO are on QRZ)

Do amateur radio operators need a high-speed packet-radio
infrastructure? Probably. Moreover, one can be built to exclusively
utilize RF as its transport mechanism; the Internet need not enter into

the picture whatsoever.

true, as a matter of fact the system I'm purposing would have both
internet and RF high speed systems....I set te system up into Phases
(which I call Layers..The part you read on my site was part of Layer
01)


Once it's built and in place, the question arises: What to do with this

network? 10MBPS or higher would give excellent throughput for
high-volume traffic forwarding...which is about all you're going to be
able to -legally- do with it. (See previous remarks copyrighted
software, et al. The sentiment of most SysOps involved will be: It
ain't passing through my station. Period. ANY file other than
plaintext, that is...and rightly so.)

First off, as a copyright holder, which I am; I would like to point out
that there is some materials that are in one of the following
catagories. 1. FREEWA Software that is free to disturbute. 2. FAIR
USE: which is a small portion of a copyrighted material for comment,
educational, critizing, and parody. 3. Public Domain: works that are no
longer copyrighted (currently anything from 1922 on back is in public
domain) Public Domain are also works the the creator has put into
public domain, either by the own admission or by failing to renew their
copyrights (for example the audio from a Greatful Dead concert is in
Public Domain and may be distributed as long as that person is making
money. The 1968 cult classic Night of the Living Dead is in Public
Domain and may be distributed) ALL three catagorize above can be used
on the system without the copyright owners permission. But the whole
Idea is to make a user friendly system instead of typing ALL that crap
like you have to in the BBS systems. Instead it would use a windows
based system, the software would automatically connect you to the
system (I would like to out at this time BBS could be set up the same
way, without internet connection) and instead of typing LL 20 or L @USA
you have a search box and type in what exactly what you looking for. It
time to move away from this text based crap and move into the 21
century.

Again - how will you control access to this system? There's also the
matter of network security - put such a "node" on the Internet and I
guarantee that it will be hacked as soon a vulnerability with the
system is found.


Just Like echolink does...when a ham first signs up and tries to
connect to the nodes. The system will search the FCC database to make
sure the callsign is vaild. As for "Hacker" yes, there could be some
however the odds of a hacker trying to hack into it is off the scale.
Echolink uses nodes on the internet and have not, to my knowledge
anyway has ever been hacked. Not only would hackers be in trouble with
the FCC but there are some tough hacker laws out now so they would be
facing two charges.

Would you filter based on size alone? Actual content (type) of the
files? MD5 hash? I (and every other comptuer-savvy individual on the
planet) can easily bypass any of these schemes by manipulating the
files in certain ways...if the filtering is done via database, it would

be enormous and a true PITA to keep up to date. Thus, it would be
dropped in short order.

It would be based on size. A normal text file can be anywhere from 1K
to 1M , while Music in a MP3 format is 2 to 3 MB, Movies run between
200 to 700 MB (depending on their format MEG, AVI, ect, ect.) The
system I'm purposing is document system either a TXT, RTF, PDF, and all
the other text formats. the idea is to create a virtual library which
ham can exchange idea's and read and explore new idea (except those in
4 land....they can't read)

Looking at the whole proposal from a great height, it closely resembles

the existing AirMail/SailMail PACTOR systems...which operate under an
entirely different set of rules and regulations than does amateur
radio.

I've never heard of them......I do know amateurs are not restricted on
what they can experiment in.


Todd N9OGL

N9OGL wrote: (but still refuses to attribute quotes he makes)

the existing AirMail/SailMail PACTOR systems...which operate under
an
entirely different set of rules and regulations than does amateur
radio.

I've never heard of them......I do know amateurs are not restricted
on
what they can experiment in.

Todd...Why don't you try a couple of coffee cans with some
monofilament line stretched between them...That's what your "idea" (not
invention) amounts to...

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
N9OGL wrote: (but still refuses to attribute quotes he makes)

the existing AirMail/SailMail PACTOR systems...which operate under
an
entirely different set of rules and regulations than does amateur
radio.

I've never heard of them......I do know amateurs are not restricted
on
what they can experiment in.

Todd...Why don't you try a couple of coffee cans with some
monofilament line stretched between them...That's what your "idea"
(not
invention) amounts to...

Steve, K4YZ

NICE....coming from a appliance user....like i stated before, you have
have an idea first before you do anything...but since your an appliance
users, I can understand that you don't understand how it works.....but
here's an idea why don't back to QRZ with all the other applicance
users....and debate more about BPL, or the CODE issue.

The only thing Todd ever invented was a turd in a toilet.

"N9OGL" wrote in message
oups.com...

K4YZ wrote:
N9OGL wrote: (but still refuses to attribute quotes he makes)

the existing AirMail/SailMail PACTOR systems...which operate under
an
entirely different set of rules and regulations than does amateur
radio.

I've never heard of them......I do know amateurs are not restricted
on
what they can experiment in.

Todd...Why don't you try a couple of coffee cans with some
monofilament line stretched between them...That's what your "idea"
(not
invention) amounts to...

Steve, K4YZ

NICE....coming from a appliance user....like i stated before, you have
have an idea first before you do anything...but since your an appliance
users, I can understand that you don't understand how it works.....but
here's an idea why don't back to QRZ with all the other applicance
users....and debate more about BPL, or the CODE issue.



LOL! Well said Todd & so true.

Dr Ham

Talk about appliance operators - how is that microwave over project
coming?

Psychiatrist-to-Hams wrote:
"N9OGL" wrote in message
oups.com...

NICE....coming from a appliance user....like i stated before, you
have
have an idea first before you do anything...but since your an
appliance
users, I can understand that you don't understand how it
works.....but
here's an idea why don't back to QRZ with all the other applicance
users....and debate more about BPL, or the CODE issue.



LOL! Well said Todd & so true.

"Well said"...?!?!

I sure am glad my kid isn't a student in YOUR grammar classes!

But what can one expect from an anonymous coward?

Steve, K4YZ