The following is from the ARRL website...I brought over the first
paragraphs as a starting point. The remainder may be read in it's
entirety at www.arrl.org.

My question: Is this even an issue?

Less than .01% of all quilters are male...Is quilting about to
burn out?

Is there some great conspiracy to prevent women from testing? Are
there armed guards at the doors to bar their entrance? If so, I've
never seen them.

73

Steve, K4YZ

QUOTE:
A Study of Amateur Radio Gender Demographics

By Ken Harker, WM5R
March 15, 2005

One of the under-represented demographics in the Amateur Radio world is
women. Everyone knows that there are many fewer female hams than there
are male hams, both among those licensed and those active on the air.
As a competitor at some of the major Amateur Radio Direction Finding
(ARDF) meets, I've noticed that the womens' entry categories have
had only about a fifth as many entrants as the mens' categories. As
an HF phone contester, I've observed that a very small percentage of
my QSOs are made with women operators (as low as 2%!). So how many
women Amateur Radio operators are there?

UNQUOTE

K4YZ wrote:
The following is from the ARRL website...I brought over the first
paragraphs as a starting point. The remainder may be read in it's
entirety at www.arrl.org.

My question: Is this even an issue?

Less than .01% of all quilters are male...Is quilting about to
burn out?

Is there some great conspiracy to prevent women from testing? Are
there armed guards at the doors to bar their entrance? If so, I've
never seen them.


It seems to be the same with many technical careers or hobbies. There
is a lot of effort to recruit women to the engineering ranks. But not
that many appear to be attracted to it.

Perhaps we need to have tight control over this sort of thing. A
carreer / hobby lottery, so to speak. When you are in 6th grade, you
draw at random two things, a career slip and a hobby slip. And that is
what ya train for and do from then on. Strict control will have to be
exercised in order to enforce gender equity!

I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty goofy to me.

That there are less women in the ARS is true enough. But that is
interesting from a "why is that?" standpoint. It probably isn't so
interesting from a "how do we change Ham radio to attract more women?"
aspect.

Dee or Kim might be able to shed some light on that, in form of "Why I
am interested in Amateur radio" or perhaps some insight on why a lot of
women aren't.

- Mike KB3EIA -


QUOTE:
A Study of Amateur Radio Gender Demographics

By Ken Harker, WM5R
March 15, 2005

One of the under-represented demographics in the Amateur Radio world is
women. Everyone knows that there are many fewer female hams than there
are male hams, both among those licensed and those active on the air.
As a competitor at some of the major Amateur Radio Direction Finding
(ARDF) meets, I've noticed that the womens' entry categories have
had only about a fifth as many entrants as the mens' categories. As
an HF phone contester, I've observed that a very small percentage of
my QSOs are made with women operators (as low as 2%!). So how many
women Amateur Radio operators are there?

UNQUOTE

K4YZ wrote:

The following is from the ARRL website...I brought over the first
paragraphs as a starting point. The remainder may be read in it's
entirety at www.arrl.org.

My question: Is this even an issue?

Kind of. There is a wide gender gap between men and women in the
engineering fields.


But working in the field, they account for 9 percent of all U.S. engineers

There is a quote that shows up at several sites:

"Women still face gender-specific obstacles when studying and preparing
for careers in engineering and other sciences. There is solid evidence
that mentoring can help address this disparity" said Muller"

http://tinyurl.com/5lm92

Despite the prevalence of the quote, I'm not sure what the disparities are.



Or they can force 'em to go to "tech camp"

http://tinyurl.com/5m82m



Interestingly enough, there are High schools that place emphasis on
science and math. The enrollment in these schools is roughly equal,
gender wise. But the female students tend to gravitate to liberal arts,
medicine and law.

see
http://tinyurl.com/3umlf


Finally, I'm not sure what to think. I've discussed the issue with a
woman engineer I work with. Interestingly enough, she says she KNEW she
wanted to be an engineer from the time she was a kid. No forcing to go
to camps. She thinks the recruitment efforts are not going to work,
because one does not pick engineering like one may pick a major from a
school catalog.

Oh, and she says she hates being called a "Woman Engineer". "Engineer"
by itself will do just fine thank you!

A sample of one, of course, but perhaps a little telling.

Maybe people who are interested in engineering get tin to it for that
reason, and people who are not into engineering do other things.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Michael Coslo wrote:

K4YZ wrote:

The following is from the ARRL website...I brought over the first
paragraphs as a starting point. The remainder may be read in it's
entirety at www.arrl.org.

My question: Is this even an issue?

Kind of. There is a wide gender gap between men and women in the
engineering fields.

But working in the field, they account for 9 percent of all U.S. engineers

There is a quote that shows up at several sites:

"Women still face gender-specific obstacles when studying and preparing
for careers in engineering and other sciences. There is solid evidence
that mentoring can help address this disparity" said Muller"

There's any easy way out of all this stuff, Mike: Fire the president of
Harvard. Lawrence Summers made some gender-specific comments on women
in math and the sciences which, while true, may cost him his job. The
PC police were all over him like African flies on a dung pile in the
wake of his statements.

I met Summers during his visit as Deputy Secretary of the Treasury to
the U.S. Embassy in Helsinki. He showed less ego than any high level
visitor I ever encountered. He was quickly known as "Call Me Larry"
Summers since anyone addressing him as Mr. Summers or Secretary Summers
was quickly told to "call me Larry".

There are differences in the way that men and women think. There are
things which mostly interest women and there are things which mostly
interest men. There are things which a lot of men and not very many
women are good at. There are things which a lot of women and not very
men are good at. If you don't like my statement, fire Larry Summers.

There aren't many women in amateur radio. There have never been many
women in amateur radio. While the numbers have been and are likely to
remain small, some of the females have been very, very good operators.
Mae Burke W3CUL a CW whiz and traffic handling demon and DXers Martha
Henson and Iris Colvin W6QL, come to mind.

Now we need Len Anderson to chime in with something about how amateur
radio is predominately "white".

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in
:

Michael Coslo wrote:

K4YZ wrote:

The following is from the ARRL website...I brought over the
first
paragraphs as a starting point. The remainder may be read in it's
entirety at www.arrl.org.

My question: Is this even an issue?

Kind of. There is a wide gender gap between men and women in
the
engineering fields.

But working in the field, they account for 9 percent of all
U.S. engineers

There is a quote that shows up at several sites:

"Women still face gender-specific obstacles when studying and
preparing for careers in engineering and other sciences. There is
solid evidence that mentoring can help address this disparity" said
Muller"

There's any easy way out of all this stuff, Mike: Fire the president
of Harvard. Lawrence Summers made some gender-specific comments on
women in math and the sciences which, while true, may cost him his job.
The PC police were all over him like African flies on a dung pile in
the wake of his statements.

I met Summers during his visit as Deputy Secretary of the Treasury to
the U.S. Embassy in Helsinki. He showed less ego than any high level
visitor I ever encountered. He was quickly known as "Call Me Larry"
Summers since anyone addressing him as Mr. Summers or Secretary Summers
was quickly told to "call me Larry".

There are differences in the way that men and women think. There are
things which mostly interest women and there are things which mostly
interest men. There are things which a lot of men and not very many
women are good at. There are things which a lot of women and not very
men are good at. If you don't like my statement, fire Larry Summers.

There aren't many women in amateur radio. There have never been many
women in amateur radio. While the numbers have been and are likely to
remain small, some of the females have been very, very good operators.
Mae Burke W3CUL a CW whiz and traffic handling demon and DXers Martha
Henson and Iris Colvin W6QL, come to mind.

Now we need Len Anderson to chime in with something about how amateur
radio is predominately "white".

Dave K8MN


I'm not Len, but it is. There are very few black hams in the US, although
they have their own organisation, called OMIK. Apparently OMIK's original
purpose was for black mobile operators to pass info about where they could
stay, eat, buy gas, etc under the 'Jim Crow' laws.

Whilst it's hard to tell someone's race on air, it also seems that in the
Washington DC area the African Americans mostly seem to be self-segregated
on the 145.110 repeater. Of course, that machine does belong to a club in
the middle of the city, and not many white people live there.

Now you've really opened up a can of worms, Dave.

Alun, N3KIP

Michael Coslo wrote:
K4YZ wrote:

The following is from the ARRL website...I brought over the first
paragraphs as a starting point. The remainder may be read in it's
entirety at www.arrl.org.

My question: Is this even an issue?

Kind of. There is a wide gender gap between men and women in the
engineering fields.

Yep. Scientific fields too. Whole bunch of reasons for it.

But working in the field, they account for 9 percent of all U.S.
engineers

Ya gotta question a raw stat with no background. What, exactly, do the
consider
a "U. S. engineer"?

Somebody with an engineering degree?
Somebody with an engineering license?
Somebody with "engineer" or "engineering" in the title?
Somebody who describes their job that way?

Or some other criteria?

There is a quote that shows up at several sites:

"Women still face gender-specific obstacles when studying and
preparing
for careers in engineering and other sciences. There is solid
evidence
that mentoring can help address this disparity" said Muller"

http://tinyurl.com/5lm92

Despite the prevalence of the quote, I'm not sure what the
disparities are.

Goes back to long before engineering school. When there's a choice,
more boys
than girls take math and physics. The disparity isn't as bad as it used
to be,
but it's still there. That's just one reason - there are lots more.

Or they can force 'em to go to "tech camp"

http://tinyurl.com/5m82m

Do they not want to go?

Interestingly enough, there are High schools that place emphasis on
science and math. The enrollment in these schools is roughly equal,
gender wise. But the female students tend to gravitate to liberal
arts,
medicine and law.

see
http://tinyurl.com/3umlf

Is that a problem?

It seems to me that the goal is equality of opportunity, not equality
of
outcome.

Finally, I'm not sure what to think. I've discussed the issue with a

woman engineer I work with. Interestingly enough, she says she KNEW
she
wanted to be an engineer from the time she was a kid. No forcing to
go
to camps. She thinks the recruitment efforts are not going to work,
because one does not pick engineering like one may pick a major from
a
school catalog.

I know several female engineers. Their reasons for choosing it vary all
over the place. Some, like your friend, wouldn't dream of doing
anything
else. Others had it suggested to them, liked the idea, and went with
it.
Some had to overcome discrimination, others never noticed any
difference.

Oh, and she says she hates being called a "Woman Engineer".
"Engineer"
by itself will do just fine thank you!

Exactly.

A sample of one, of course, but perhaps a little telling.

Maybe people who are interested in engineering get tin to it for
that
reason, and people who are not into engineering do other things.

Some other reasons:

- Someone who goes into engineering will have an educational and
professional life surrounded by guys and all their characteristics,
good and bad. Some women have no problem with that, others would prefer
a more gender-balanced situation.

- Because technology changes so fast, temporarily dropping out of
active employment in many fields in order to raise a family will make
you unemployable in that field. How many jobs are there for computer
folks whose skills and knowledge are 5 years behind? The usual solution
for fields like health care is to work part time. But their aren't many
part-time engineering jobs.

- Like it or not, there *are* some gender-related differences. They may
be all due to cultural forces (quite likely), or all due to genetics
(extremely unlikely), or some mix, but the differences are there. And
they're not going to go away overnight.

As I said before - It seems to me that the goal is equality of
opportunity, not equality of outcome.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Now we need Len Anderson to chime in with something about how
amateur
radio is predominately "white".

Dave K8MN


I'm not Len, but it is.

True enough, Alun, just check out the ham photos in
the last half-century's ham publications.

No "profiling" qualifications needed...


Whilst it's hard to tell someone's race on air, it also seems that

On "CW" noboby can tell their gender.

That maybe explains why WOMEN's tees are so "cool!" :-)


Now you've really opened up a can of worms, Dave.

Big badass dave LIKES worms, Alun. :-)

K4YZ wrote:

The following is from the ARRL website...I brought over the first
paragraphs as a starting point. The remainder may be read in it's
entirety at www.arrl.org.

My question: Is this even an issue?

Less than .01% of all quilters are male...Is quilting about to
burn out?

Is there some great conspiracy to prevent women from testing? Are
there armed guards at the doors to bar their entrance? If so, I've
never seen them.


There's been women hams over the years. Find an old issue
of QST from the early 60's and there's usually a column
"YL news" or such. Usually with a small headline drawing
of a woman ham and her shack, one of the pieces of equipment
with a potted plant atop of it. Some were probably wives of
male hams, and there were probably some women who were in
ham radio without such a connection. I don't think the
percentage has varied much over the years.

There's any easy way out of all this stuff, Mike: Fire the president of
Harvard. Lawrence Summers made some gender-specific comments on women
in math and the sciences which, while true, may cost him his job. The
PC police were all over him like African flies on a dung pile in the
wake of his statements.


There may be some gender differences, but such are less
than something like 5% difference. Hardly significant.
And possibly all due to the culture and not biology, who
knows.

Other male dominated hobbies like model railroading also
have a few women, about the same percentage as ham radio.

"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...
The following is from the ARRL website...I brought over the first
paragraphs as a starting point. The remainder may be read in it's
entirety at www.arrl.org.

My question: Is this even an issue?

Less than .01% of all quilters are male...Is quilting about to
burn out?

Is there some great conspiracy to prevent women from testing? Are
there armed guards at the doors to bar their entrance? If so, I've
never seen them.

73

Steve, K4YZ

I also read the article. I think it was an interesting study but did not
see any attempt to indicate that this was an issue or that anyone was trying
to keep women out. Personally I classify it as a fun but useless bit of
trivia.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
(Just in case there's anyone new in here, I am a YL)