John Kasupski wrote:

I think it's worth noting here, the old adage about birds of a
feather
flocking together. It's been my experience that people join the local
ham radio clubs for a variety of reasons, just as they get involved
with amateur radio to begin with for a wide variety of reasons. When
you bottom-line it, though, a local club remains a sure-fire way for
a
newcomer to meet others who share at least some of their interests in
amateur radio. For many it's a way of introducing themselves to the
other hams in their area, sort of like, "I've got my license and I'm
here now, so when you hear me on the local repeaters you don't have
to
worry that I might be a bootlegger."

Exactly...And that's where a "national" organization can
help...Recruiting materials, media bites, testing/training materials.

It should be up to the "locals" to deceide where the focus of the
organization is going.

When they get to the local clubs and hook up with other newcomers
(and
the observation that the vast majority of newcomers to the ARS enter
via the Technician route is dead on...that's why it's called the
"entry-level license class"), they find the other Techs basically
doing the only things they're permitted to do, absent any meaningful
HF privileges unless they pass a code test - they're doing Skywarn;
tactical comms for parades, bike races, marathons; Field Day, etc.

"...absent any meaningful HF privileges..."

Sounds like a set-up for the "If you don't have HF you're not a
Ham" argument, John. Not only are well over 90% of all Amateur
allocations above 50Mhz, so are most ACTIVITIES above 50MHz.

I went on up to Extra thinking all the activities were on HF only
to find I keep pulling back to 50Mhz and up for a lot of my hamming
activities.

I think the "failure" comes only from thinking that there's
"nothing to do" above 50Mhz. That's just wrong.

Another old adage: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Thus, it's no
surprise that many new Techs join in these activities. This is the
same route I myself took when I entered into the ARS back in '99 and
I'm still active in these pursuits now, except it's in a leadership
role rather than as one who is learning the ropes, so to speak.

And it's in fellowship that we learn more effectively. My only
"problem" with clubs is that they often try to be too many things to
too many people with too few resources.

"That is a good idea. Tactical communications would serve as a good
training ground."

For what it's worth, I concur. In fact, I think tactical
communications is a skill that is too often ignored as many public
service and emergency communications groups opt for developing
proficiency in formal traffic handling - which is a valuable skill in
the right circumstances, but unless a group is located somewhere that
circumstances warrant the frequent use of formal traffic handling
(like being somewhere that often gets smacked by earthquakes,
tornadoes, hurricanes, and other major disasters that result in
relatively long relief efforts and a lot of health & Welfare
traffic)...well, many groups will only rarely need formal traffic
handling skills. Tactical communications skills, on the other hand,
are something I think any such group is going to always need,
especially if they are doing parades, races, etc.

I agree on the use of those skills, John...and those are some
roots we shouldn't get too far away from.

We've done exactly that here in Tennessee CAP, and now we are
"re-energizing" those basic communicator skills along with the techie
web-rat things. We're creating a "Communications College" to start
from Ground Zero and re-establish basic communicator skills.

On this passage, Steve, K4YZ, commented as follows:

First of all, there's already flexibility written into the ARES
program to allow for it's implementation based upon local needs or
concerns. The needs of emergency planners in Plymouth, MN or
Winchester, TN are going to be different than those of New York City
or
Miami, FL.

As I see it, Steve, the problem with this is that in many (most?)
areas, the local ARES group wears two hats, serving also as the local
RACES group, and because FEMA guidelines for RACES call for its
implementation at the County level, there's often a lack of
ARES/RACES
groups having established relationships with local governments (city,
town, village, etc.). That is something that, as a result, often
falls
to the local clubs - but ARRL sees it as an ARES function and local
clubs looking for support for their efforts in this area end up
getting referred to the local ARES leadership...which is often
hesitant to help because they see the clubs' efforts as undermining
their own.

My experiences here in TN are that all those hats are being worn
by ARES now. certainly not in all areas, but RACES as a seperate entity
is dwindling. Since the Feds have actually pulled the rug out from
under a lot of the RACES regulations the lines have blurred and one hat
seems to fit better!

Steve continued:

I don't see how a nationally directed program could possibly do
anything more than appear to be micromanaging.

Again, admitting that their is a niche for local groups to be
involved
at a local level and offering some support to them independent of the
ARES (or ARES/RACES) mechanism would not be micromanaging. Often
there
are entirely different missions involved, and even when the missions
overlap, again it does not hurt ARES all that much for the local
clubs
to have a relationship with a city government's disaster preparedness
officials in a county where the ARES group has a relationship with
the
county's disaster prearedness office.

In other words, this would eliminate the "turf war" mentality that
often crops up when the local clubs, or other groups independent of
ARES, start to actually succeed at what they're doing.

I think a lot of this is being answered by having the EC's or
DEC's oversee the ARES groups and coordinate the ARES representation
with the various EOC's.

The folks in the EOC's aren't concerned with where the operators
come from or what club sponsors them...Just as long as that cah do what
they say they can do.

BTW...Part of Tennessee's Homeland Security implementation was to
issue a funded mandate that all hospitals within the state have
operating Amateur Radio facilites. We have a short tower with the
V/UHF antennas installed already.

Steve went on...

Secondly, the ARRL Special Services Club's program already offers
assistance for helping to manage some aspects of club activities,
offers of sponsorship, etc.

What they (the ARRL) COULD do, without creating a whole new
"branch" and field directorship with it, would be to start spending
some more money to get more recruiting materials, including TV/Radio
"commercials" into the field. They could "regionalize" the
materials
with pictures of local clubs, landmarks, etc in them to help
"identify"
them to the target audience.

To this I say, "Bingo!"

Thanks.

73

Steve, K4YZ

"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

John Kasupski wrote:


[snip]

When they get to the local clubs and hook up with other newcomers
(and
the observation that the vast majority of newcomers to the ARS enter
via the Technician route is dead on...that's why it's called the
"entry-level license class"), they find the other Techs basically
doing the only things they're permitted to do, absent any meaningful
HF privileges unless they pass a code test - they're doing Skywarn;
tactical comms for parades, bike races, marathons; Field Day, etc.

"...absent any meaningful HF privileges..."

Sounds like a set-up for the "If you don't have HF you're not a
Ham" argument, John. Not only are well over 90% of all Amateur
allocations above 50Mhz, so are most ACTIVITIES above 50MHz.

I went on up to Extra thinking all the activities were on HF only
to find I keep pulling back to 50Mhz and up for a lot of my hamming
activities.

I think the "failure" comes only from thinking that there's
"nothing to do" above 50Mhz. That's just wrong.


Have you noticed how the majority of participants in non-repeater
VHF/UHF/and up activities are NOT the Technicians. Just get on during the
ARRL VHF contest and count the percentage of stations that are General class
and higher that you end up working.

My OM is a fan of the VHF realm and has made presentations to the club on
what you can do in these area of the hobby. The result? Well maybe 2 out
of 100 work satellites and SSB and another couple work FM simplex and SSB.
That's it (sigh).

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

John Kasupski wrote:


[snip]

When they get to the local clubs and hook up with other newcomers
(and
the observation that the vast majority of newcomers to the ARS
enter
via the Technician route is dead on...that's why it's called the
"entry-level license class"), they find the other Techs basically
doing the only things they're permitted to do, absent any
meaningful
HF privileges unless they pass a code test - they're doing
Skywarn;
tactical comms for parades, bike races, marathons; Field Day, etc.

"...absent any meaningful HF privileges..."

Sounds like a set-up for the "If you don't have HF you're not a
Ham" argument, John. Not only are well over 90% of all Amateur
allocations above 50Mhz, so are most ACTIVITIES above 50MHz.

I went on up to Extra thinking all the activities were on HF
only
to find I keep pulling back to 50Mhz and up for a lot of my hamming
activities.

I think the "failure" comes only from thinking that there's
"nothing to do" above 50Mhz. That's just wrong.


Have you noticed how the majority of participants in non-repeater
VHF/UHF/and up activities are NOT the Technicians. Just get on
during the
ARRL VHF contest and count the percentage of stations that are
General class
and higher that you end up working.

My OM is a fan of the VHF realm and has made presentations to the
club on
what you can do in these area of the hobby. The result? Well maybe
2 out
of 100 work satellites and SSB and another couple work FM simplex and
SSB.
That's it (sigh).

I guess it's a regional thing, Dee...The bands down here are alive
with a lot of stuff, including 2M SSB, etc...And lot's of the NCT's
that some other ill-informed individuals suggest have been "chased
away"...

73

Steve, K4YZ

"Dee Flint" wrote


Have you noticed how the majority of participants in non-repeater VHF/UHF/and
up activities are NOT the Technicians.

The Northern Lights Radio Society here in Minnesota is an organization of
operators who are active in weak signal (SSB/CW) work on the VHF, UHF, and
Microwave bands. I'm sure your OM has heard of the club. A significant number
of the members are Technician licensees.

May be different where you live, but in this area the Technicians do a lions
share of the work in Skywarn, Grandmas Marathon, Twin Cities Marathon, and a
host of public service events. During disaster recovery (floods and tornados)
events they are major contributors of time and talent.

Contrary to common sentiment, they are extraordinarily engaged in the local ham
scene and not just "shack-on-a-belt-repeater-lizards" as some like to
characterize them.

The sooner ARRL membership has Technicians as members in numbers proportional to
their population, the sooner ARRL will truly represent the full spectrum of
amateur licensees. My PBI seeks to make that happen.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dee Flint" wrote


Have you noticed how the majority of participants in non-repeater
VHF/UHF/and up activities are NOT the Technicians.

The Northern Lights Radio Society here in Minnesota is an organization of
operators who are active in weak signal (SSB/CW) work on the VHF, UHF, and
Microwave bands. I'm sure your OM has heard of the club. A significant
number of the members are Technician licensees.


And half our members are Technicians also. And almost half our officers are
Technicians. We've been very successful in getting them engaged in the
club.

May be different where you live, but in this area the Technicians do a
lions share of the work in Skywarn, Grandmas Marathon, Twin Cities
Marathon, and a host of public service events. During disaster recovery
(floods and tornados) events they are major contributors of time and
talent.



As they do here.

Contrary to common sentiment, they are extraordinarily engaged in the
local ham scene and not just "shack-on-a-belt-repeater-lizards" as some
like to characterize them.


The Technicians here are also quite engaged in all the public service,
community, and club activities. What the participation seems to lag here is
in the wide range of on air activities.

The sooner ARRL membership has Technicians as members in numbers
proportional to their population, the sooner ARRL will truly represent the
full spectrum of amateur licensees. My PBI seeks to make that happen.


I thought that I had seen a statistic where close to half of the ARRL
membership were Technicians. If so, then it simply means that the Techs
need to get more involved on the management side to make things happen.
Afterall there is no reason that a Tech couldn't be President.

Perhaps if this PBI were more aimed at expanding the membership at all
levels it would be more fruitful. Very little change would be needed to
what you propose other than seeking out non-members of all classes.

73, de Hans, K0HB


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:



And half our members are Technicians also. And almost half our officers are
Technicians. We've been very successful in getting them engaged in the
club.


The Technicians have been kicked around by the 'higher class' licensees
or some time for some strange reason. There seems to be some elitists
attitude among some holding higher class licenses towards the Techs,
that they haven't quite attained the status of being a 'real ham' yet.
However, it seems that the Techs are doing one of the very things that
hams have long been noted for and helps justify our existance, that of
using ham radio for public service. They seem to be a class of folk who
aren't much interested in setting in front of an HF rig just to chat
with someone in the next state or country, but had much rather put their
energy into using ham radio to benefit others. Hooray for the Techs.

Dee Flint wrote:
"K=D8HB" wrote in message

.. . . .

The sooner ARRL membership has Technicians as members in numbers
proportional to their population, the sooner ARRL will truly
represent the
full spectrum of amateur licensees. My PBI seeks to make that
happen.


I thought that I had seen a statistic where close to half of the ARRL

membership were Technicians.

This thread was started by Hans who stated in so many words that Techs
are under-represented by the ARRL because they don't join in the
quantities other class licensees join that some changes need to be
made, etc., etc. ~Half the hams in this country are Techs. If, as you
state, half the Techs are also ARRL members then what's the point to
this whole thread?? Or is it me again?


If so, then it simply means that the Techs
need to get more involved on the management side to make things
happen.
Afterall there is no reason that a Tech couldn't be President.

Perhaps if this PBI were more aimed at expanding the membership at
all
levels it would be more fruitful. Very little change would be needed
to
what you propose other than seeking out non-members of all classes.
=20
73, de Hans, K0HB

=20
Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

w3rv

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

"Senior moment . . . "

This thread was started by Hans who stated in so many words that Techs
are under-represented by the ARRL because they don't join in the
quantities other class licensees join that some changes need to be
made, etc., etc. ~Half the hams in this country are Techs.

Change to:

If, as you state, *half the ARRL members are Techs* then what's the
point to this whole thread?? Or is it me again?

w3rv

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

"Senior moment . . . "

This thread was started by Hans who stated in so many words that Techs
are under-represented by the ARRL because they don't join in the
quantities other class licensees join that some changes need to be
made, etc., etc. ~Half the hams in this country are Techs.

Change to:

If, as you state, *half the ARRL members are Techs* then what's the
point to this whole thread?? Or is it me again?

w3rv


If Hans is correct about the scarcity of Techs in the ARRL membership, he
proposes a way to attract them is all. I simply indicated that his original
premise may or may not be true. Thus it should be checked. I don't know
what the numbers are. I simply thought I saw something on it but haven't
checked it. It is my point of view that the ARRL ought to try to get the
involvement of more hams of all classes.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

From: "Dee Flint" on Sat,May 7 2005 5:08 am

"K=D8=88B" wrote in message
link.net...

"Dee Flint" wrote



Contrary to common sentiment, they are extraordinarily engaged in
the
local ham scene and not just "shack-on-a-belt-repeater-lizards" as
some
like to characterize them.

The Technicians here are also quite engaged in all the public service,

community, and club activities. What the participation seems to lag
here is
in the wide range of on air activities.

We can be sure some of your best friends are Technicians...

The sooner ARRL membership has Technicians as members in numbers
proportional to their population, the sooner ARRL will truly
represent the
full spectrum of amateur licensees. My PBI seeks to make that
happen.

I thought that I had seen a statistic where close to half of the ARRL
membership were Technicians.

Whose pipe smoke were you gazing at for that factoid?

The ARRL remains silent on demographics of its
membership. On the QST "Publisher's Sworn
Circulation Statement" [www.arrl.org/ads/circ.html]
page marked "last revised 17 March 2005," the
ARRL membership as of 31 December 2004 was 151,727.
The "individuals who are ARRL members" is given
as 138,127. Obvious discrepancy there. ARRL
does not clarify what seems to be a glaring error
in arithmetic...

That's about ALL that is given BY the ARRL on their
membership...or any other demographics.

According to www.hamdata.com, the total licensees
for U.S. radio amateurs was 733,080 on 7 May 2005.
Of those, 310,455 were Technician classes...which
works out to 42.35% of the total. If the ARRL
membership is really as high as 151,727 then that
represents only 20.70% of the total number of
licensed U.S. radio amateurs.

If so, then it simply means that the Techs
need to get more involved on the management side to make things
happen.

Long jump of a conclusion. Tsk, tsk. What
would your class say about that?

Afterall there is no reason that a Tech couldn't be President.

Quite true. The only requirement is that they
are natural-born citizens of the United States,
are at least 35 years old and been a resident of
the United States for at least 14 years.
- Article II, Section 1, Constitution of the
United States of America

Oh, you meant the ARRL? The ARRL laready has TWO
Presidents...Sumner and Haynie. Are you suggesting
they try for THREE? [incroyable...]


Perhaps if this PBI were more aimed at expanding the membership at all

levels it would be more fruitful. Very little change would be needed
to
what you propose other than seeking out non-members of all classes.

ARRL membership is dropping. [go look at older
BoD Membership reports] Dropping with essentially
NO change in their requirements. That is NOT good
for the League.

What is "seeking out non-members of all classes?"

First you say that "half the ARRL membership is
Technicians," then you want more attraction for
all classes? You aren't being clear in what you
are saying.

BTW, how DID the cake taste?