RadioBanter - Information Bulletin

wrote:
From: on Mon,May 23 2005 3:57 am

"who can't argue a subject for squat and does the personal insult
thing in order to "win an argument." "

Oh, oh! Reverend Jim issued a Sermon On The Antenna Mount! :-)

No, Len, I just quoted your own words back to you. They fit your
actions best.

Not only that, the poor guy is still furious over NOT "winning"
a newsgroup argument THREE YEARS AGO! :-)

You're the one shouting and carrying on at great length, Len. Not me.

Not only that, the "argument" wasn't even about RADIO!

So what? Most of your posts here aren't really about "RADIO", either.

Hello? This newsgroup is about AMATEUR RADIO POLICY. Military
and international socio-political politics are another group.

Then why do you go off on so many tangents, Len? You seem to be afraid
to have a civil discussion about amateur radio policy here.

"RADIO" includes all of the HF portion of the EM spectrum. That's
where the major international communications networks WERE in
the 1950s. I was part of that - for three years - as a
volunteer in the United States Army...operating HF transmitters
for an Army station.

You and about 700 other military personnel....

A "small" station, only the third largest
in the worldwide Army net at the time, just 36 transmitters
ranging from 1 to 15 KW in 1953 (43, up to 40 KW in 1956) and
none of them using OOK CW modes.

And all of them paid for by US taxpayers - most of whom were civilians.
At least one transmitter was built by a vacuum-cleaner company. OBTW -
most of that equipment was designed and built by civilians...

That station was located in
Japan, specifically a few miles outside of Tokyo. 24/7 ops
attached directly to the Far East Command Headquarters, then
in Tokyo...continuous links to Seoul, Pusan, Okinawa, Manila,
Saigon, Anchorage, Seattle, Hawaii, San Francisco plus local
HF nets all throughout the Kanto Plain of Honshu Island.

That's nice, Len. You've told that story here many, many, many, many
times. I've looked at your faded photos on that website.

What in the world does it have to do with amateur radio policy today?

In early 1953 there was still a state of War between the
United Nations and North Korea although a truce was
imminent (that would settle into a "permanent" Truce in
July, 1953). I had voluntarily enlisted in the Army on
13 March 1952...when there was still active warfare in
Korea. My assignment to the Far East was ordered by the
Army and not subject to my approval or disapproval...one goes
where assigned or one goes where the penitentiary is (after a
court martial).

So?

Army duty required a continuous practice on soldiering skills
regardless of one's military occupation specialty. In addition
to that, there were continuing updates on emergency and
contingency plans plus operational tests of same. Note the
location of Japan to the easternmost parts of the USSR, then
an adversary in the "Cold War." The USSR then possessed the
atomic bomb.

I know. What's your point?

Since I was in the Signal Corps and working on/with radio
communications, my unit was NOT briefed on the overall
military capabilities of the Soviet Union to the detail
outlined in the Janes books. We had one simple directive
in the case of military conflict: "Close with, and destroy
the enemy." We were all reminded of that in the regular
training sessions of Provisional Infantry Platoon ("PIP")
practice, along with "you are soldiers FIRST and signalmen
second." We were NOT given any of the movie-style
practice on identifying Soviet aircraft from little models
or silouettes...nor were we instructed in operation of
anti-aircraft defense (there were other units for that
purpose).

Did you *ever* see any Soviet aircraft when you were in Japan, Len?

While all that was going on, station ADA kept on 24/7
operations at a rate of nearly a quarter million messages
a month through its facilities...thousands of miles from
the United States of America.

700+ personnel, too.

Was FEC Hq "in danger" from
its "rear-area location?" Depends on what you "4F" types
want to call "danger" from your safe locations in the states.

I was never classified "4F", Len. I still have my draft card, btw.

Now, did I make a "mistake" on calling out Soviet "Bear"
bomber types in 1953? Yes.

At last! Len actually admits a mistake!

In the 49 years from 1953 to
2002 (date of your target "example" message) I've seen a
LOT of statistics and information on Soviet military power.
If I needed to be SPECIFIC, then I would go look up the
EXACT thing.

But you didn't. In fact it was you who brought up the Bear bombers in
the first place - back in 2002 and again a day or two ago. Not me.

What you did was to understate the distance from where you were to the
Soviet Union, and you overstated the threat by describing it as being
about an hour's flight by a bomber that wasn't even in production while
you were there.

If you want to play that game, Len, how about this:

You grew up at a time when the enemies of the USA were thousands of
miles away, and could not directly attack CONUS. Even in WW2, the
direct threat to the USA was some sabotage, U-boats sinking ships off
the east coast, and some Japanese submarine gunfire and incendiary
balloons off the west coast.

I grew up at a time when the enemies of the USA could directly attack
CONUS with nuclear missiles (both landbased and submarine launched) in
a matter of minutes. There was no defense against such missiles - in
fact, they could be here before an effective alarm could be sounded.

I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis even though I was a child at the
time. I knew what "the bomb" was and what it could do - and how quick
it could get to Philadelphia from Havana.

Yes, we've all lived under that threat for many decades now. But you
didn't grow up with it - I did.

But...Soviet aircraft was NOT in my "line of
work" in 1953 to 1956.

You still messed up on the distances and the threat.

Radio was. HF radio...and VHF,
UHF, and microwave radio. RADIO, Jimmie. RADIOS that must
operate 24/7, "getting the message through." I made NO
"mistakes" there.

Did you design or build those radios, Len? Did you pay for them?

Or were you part of a large, well-equipped, well-trained team
specifically set up to do the job, and provided with everything
you needed to do it right?

I think the latter.

You want to sit safe at your computer and scoff and scoff
and show how "expert" you are in military and political
matters...

BULL****, Len. That's pure and adulterated BULL****.

There's just no other word for it.

You made several mistakes about Soviet aircraft and distances from
the USSR to Japan. I pointed out those mistakes. You have a hissyfit
whenever I point out a mistake of yours, which is quite often.

I don't claim to be an expert at anything. You got your facts wrong and
I pointed out the error. You are not some sort of sacred elder whom
everyone must never contradict.

and NEVER having served in any government post
or military in REAL SERVICE for your country.

What constitutes "REAL SERVICE", Len? Is it only uniformed military
service? Or can someone serve in other ways?

How about law enforcement? Firefighters? Emergency medical personnel?

Or don't they count?

Besides, I've seen how you address those who *do* have military and
government service, but who dare to disagree with you. Their service
means nothing to you - in fact, you make fun of it, question their
veracity, insult them in every way you can imagine. For example,
there's your classic "sphincter post" and the unforgettable "feldwebel
post".

So it's logical to conclude that no matter what military or
government service I had, you'd still behave towards me the way
you do, if I dared to disagree with you.

It's what you *do*, Len. We've all seen it, many times.

You want to
"tell me how it is" in the military without wearing a
uniform, taking any induction oath, or being shipped out
of the country to some foreign base.

No, I don't. I simply point out some of your mistakes.

You, OTOH, want to tell everyone how things you have no experience
with should be. Like the age limit for an amateur radio license, even
though you've never been a parent.

Jimmie boy,
there's NO indication that you EVER worked IN
radio...or in aerospace...

So what? No matter what experience I had, it's logical to conclude that
you'd behave the same way towards me.

and you want to be an "expert
guru type" on that.

I don't claim to be an expert on anything, Len.

You've not worked AT the FCC, you've
not worked AT the ARRL, you are NOT in the judiciary,

Neither have you!

yet
you try to speak as if you were all of that.

Not me, Len. That's your game.

All you seem
to have is long "tenure" in amateur radio NEWSGROUP MESSAGING.
Hours and hours and hours of that. More than I have.

Wrong again, Len. You were on rrap before me. Your postings exceed mine
in number and volume. I make one little post and you go off like a fire
hydrant of words.

On Memorial Day you WILL be remembered. We veterans all
remember the anti-military civilians who like to spit on
military people one way or another, SAFE in their un-
touched communities expressing contempt for anyone who
has served via the Internet.

You served via the internet? ;-)

Here's a fact, Len: I'm not one of those you describe, no matter
how you try to spin it. Not in any way.

Here's another fact, Len: Your military service does not mean your
comments here or anywhere else are somehow sacred from challenge or
correction of factual and/or logical mistakes.

You make a lot of talk about freedom of speech but when someone like
me actually exercises that freedom, you tell them to shut up.

Perhaps I should repost your classic "feldwebel post". Here's what you
told K8MN (who has both military *and* government service, in *radio*):

Quoting Len Anderson:

"shut the hell up, you little USMC feldwebel"

(end quote)

Amateur radio is a hobby activity carried on for the purpose
of personal enjoyment.

That's part of it. But not all of it. There's also the public
service aspect. Why don't you mention that aspect?

It is, in part, a technological
endeavor involving the laws of physics, regulated by the
government because ALL radio works by those same physical
laws.

Gee whiz, Len, tell us something we *don't* know....

Amateur radio is NOT a fifth branch of the armed
forces.

Nobody claimed it was.

Ham operators are NOT "serving their country"
any more than stamp collectors or bird watchers or other
hobbyists.

That's simply not true, Len. You keep ignoring the public service
performed by radio amateurs.

What constitutes "REAL SERVICE", Len? Is it only uniformed military
service? Or can someone serve in other ways?

How about law enforcement? Firefighters? Emergency medical personnel?

Or don't they count?

Try to keep from translating your amateur
radio license form into a DD-214.

Len, "you do not now have, nor did you ever, nor will you ever
have the authority, expertise, training, experience or
qualifications to give me an order or to imply you are
giving me an order."

Those are your words, Len, but they fit perfectly in this situation!

Here's my "salute" to you, Jimmie Noserve, on this upcoming
Memorial Day: middle finger upraised

Gee, Len, that's really impressive. Do you think that sort of
behavior somehow makes you "right" and me "wrong"? It sure
seems you think that way.