I agree. My experience with american call centers has been about as
good as those that appear to be located overseas. The quality of the
response is directly related to the skills and knowlege of the
individual - their location has little to do with it. Tucson, Arizona
has numerous call centers operating there, and I would guess many of
the operators have a non-U.S. accent as well. When calling a call
center my purpose is to get information. I've found that by staying
cordial and sometimes repeating a question that I get the results I'm
looking for. Some on this forum(not you) seem to be more focused on
insulting the operators and generally causing problems. They must have
a lot of free time.

No offense to those who live in other countries, those who are from other
countries living here, etc. BUT, John S., when the job loss is in your
household, the frustration will be quite evident in you, as well, I am sure.
I can logically figure out that it is not the "other peoples'" fault.
However, the emotion of losing a job, and sometimes just shy of retirement,
many times after long, long years at a company, is quite overwhelming and
leaves one short of "feeling friendly."

Kim W5TIT

"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...
I agree. My experience with american call centers has been about as
good as those that appear to be located overseas. The quality of the
response is directly related to the skills and knowlege of the
individual - their location has little to do with it. Tucson, Arizona
has numerous call centers operating there, and I would guess many of
the operators have a non-U.S. accent as well. When calling a call
center my purpose is to get information. I've found that by staying
cordial and sometimes repeating a question that I get the results I'm
looking for. Some on this forum(not you) seem to be more focused on
insulting the operators and generally causing problems. They must have
a lot of free time.

Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?

Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around $300
per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one guy
was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life insurance.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00 per
hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance. I
have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm just
tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note that
as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some folks
will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or the
current administration.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8 hours
of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to other
folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When our
department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about the
fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982). When
he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't save
his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty, but
in this case .... )

Make my day.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as "geeks"
or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real flack.
It is about time that they did.

I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a mile,
but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of the
B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.

I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group I
co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA




"Kim" wrote in message
...
No offense to those who live in other countries, those who are from other
countries living here, etc. BUT, John S., when the job loss is in your
household, the frustration will be quite evident in you, as well, I am
sure.
I can logically figure out that it is not the "other peoples'" fault.
However, the emotion of losing a job, and sometimes just shy of
retirement,
many times after long, long years at a company, is quite overwhelming and
leaves one short of "feeling friendly."

Kim W5TIT

"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...
I agree. My experience with american call centers has been about as
good as those that appear to be located overseas. The quality of the
response is directly related to the skills and knowlege of the
individual - their location has little to do with it. Tucson, Arizona
has numerous call centers operating there, and I would guess many of
the operators have a non-U.S. accent as well. When calling a call
center my purpose is to get information. I've found that by staying
cordial and sometimes repeating a question that I get the results I'm
looking for. Some on this forum(not you) seem to be more focused on
insulting the operators and generally causing problems. They must have
a lot of free time.

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?


Sorry, Jim, almost like the bottom-line driven CEOs and BODs we have these
days, I was interested in speed, not accuracy


Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around
$300
per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one
guy
was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life
insurance.


In my company, MANY were within 6 mos. of eligible retirement age. Company
was asked, "why". Response: "it had to be done sometime, 'it's just
business.'" So, employees take note: forget about dedication to job and
customer, "it's just business." And, that attitude is quite evident in
customer service these days. You would probably believe how many people I
know who complain all the time about those "automated" response systems when
you call for help these days. Whenever I get someone on the phone, I tell
them that it's just miserable. Know what response I get? "That is the way
business operates and it is considered a Best Practice standard." Not even
a: "I will log your complaint." Know why? Because we, as consumers, accept
mediocrity and that becomes the local conversation when we gather with
friends. We talk about it, but we do nothing to try to resolve it. Uh, by
the way, I'm right in there and, whenever I try to think of how to battle
it, I can't come up with a solution because it's so ingrained in business
practice that EVERYONE is doing it.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00
per
hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance. I
have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.


Get this. Our adventure began a little over a year ago. Company "migrated"
all customer ops (because that was not their "core business"
[huh????????!!!!!!!!!!!!] to a firm where we are all now "contractors."
BUT, previous employer holds out severance package IF employees are
terminated within 18 months. We should have all figured out then that we
were all going to be terminated within 18 months...LOL Many are gone, the
rest are just waiting. Bad business, just can't convince and bigwigs of it
because, of course, their pockets are heavily lined with the savings.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm just
tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note
that
as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some folks
will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or the
current administration.


Refer to my upper paragraph on that. In another thread, "Indian Call
Centers" I think it is, I just posted that companies who are exporting
technical and customer service jobs don't realize that it means in the
future, they won't have customers to buy products. And, why should our
youth look at the career path of technology because it's all being
"outsourced." We already have a critically severe shortage of doctors,
nurses, and medical specialists (granted, not because of outsourcing but
because--it is said--our up and coming youth see the long hours and little
money and don't want to do it) coming up in the next ten years. I've
already heard many, many children of career technology parents being
counseled NOT to enter into the computer/technological because their job
function will not be there and/or will eventually lead to being outsourced.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8 hours
of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to
other
folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".


Heh heh...the gist in the company I work for is, beginning many years and
into recent years, frustrated programmers and data folks--who were
confronted with the silo attitude whenever they would request access into a
system--began writing their own little "additions" and subroutines to
existing processes. There are, literally, boxes that whir and run and no
one has a clue to what they are doing. Why? Because the person is long
gone and do ya think they'd be interested in helping out? LOL Anyone who
thinks their systems are pristinely designed and operated, with "one path"
philosophy...are in a la la land.

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When
our
department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about
the
fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982).
When
he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't
save
his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty, but
in this case .... )

Make my day.


I hear ya...and feel your pain.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as
"geeks"
or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real
flack.
It is about time that they did.


I can nearly guarantee you that they won't care. Think about it. The
proverbial CEOs makes millions the first year in a company, and has not one
iota of plan to stay there for the long-term. The BODs are the same way.
The only place it needs to begin to show that people care is at the customer
level. And, once again as in politics, we've been fat, happy, and stupid.
And, the problem we now face, in politics and in our workforce, seems
insurmountable. I'm sounding terribly gloomy and doomy...but I know at
least you will understand what I'm talking about.

I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a mile,
but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of the
B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.


Yep. You got it. When a collective is needed...heh heh...it doesn't matter
but that there is a collective.

I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group I
co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA




Never been one much for patience with "holier than thou's," heh, as you have
seen in my posts with this newsgroup in the past. Don't have time for 'em,
don't care about 'em, don't care what they THINK they have over and on me.
Because, you know what? When it all crashes, I don't think nuttin' of going
out in the back yard and planting a garden. Many of them haven't even ever
touched dirt--or had to.

Kim W5TIT

Jim Hampton wrote:
Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?

Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around $300
per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one guy
was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life insurance.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00 per
hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance. I
have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm just
tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note that
as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some folks
will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or the
current administration.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8 hours
of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to other
folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When our
department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about the
fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982). When
he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't save
his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty, but
in this case .... )

Make my day.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as "geeks"
or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real flack.
It is about time that they did.

So you noticed that education is a "bad thing" too, eh, Jim?

I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a mile,
but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of the
B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.

Superiority based on either Morse code or the contents of the new or
old tests is shallow superiority indeed.

Thinking that such things impart superiority is even shallower.

I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group I
co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.

Yeah!

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Jim Hampton wrote:
Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?

Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around
$300
per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one
guy
was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life
insurance.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00
per
hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance.
I
have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm
just
tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note
that
as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some
folks
will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or
the
current administration.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8
hours
of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to
other
folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When
our
department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about
the
fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982).
When
he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't
save
his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty,
but
in this case .... )

Make my day.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as
"geeks"
or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real
flack.
It is about time that they did.

So you noticed that education is a "bad thing" too, eh, Jim?

I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a
mile,
but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of
the
B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.

Superiority based on either Morse code or the contents of the new or
old tests is shallow superiority indeed.

Thinking that such things impart superiority is even shallower.

I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group
I
co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.

Yeah!

- Mike KB3EIA -

Hello, Mike

True enough. Interestingly, although I had some problems with The Calculus,
I've overcome much of it in the past 3 months simply because I suddenly
found it "interesting".

As to education, I'm surprised at the number of folks with "associates" or
"baccalaureate" degrees that are totally lacking in the sciences. They do
seem proficient, however, at "cut and paste".

Most interesting.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

Jim Hampton wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

Jim Hampton wrote:

Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?

Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around

$300

per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one

guy

was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life

insurance.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00

per

hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance.

I

have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm

just

tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note

that

as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some

folks

will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or

the

current administration.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8

hours

of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to

other

folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When

our

department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about

the

fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982).

When

he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't

save

his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty,

but

in this case .... )

Make my day.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as

"geeks"

or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real

flack.

It is about time that they did.

So you noticed that education is a "bad thing" too, eh, Jim?


I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a

mile,

but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of

the

B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.

Superiority based on either Morse code or the contents of the new or
old tests is shallow superiority indeed.

Thinking that such things impart superiority is even shallower.


I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group

I

co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.

Yeah!

- Mike KB3EIA -


Hello, Mike

True enough. Interestingly, although I had some problems with The Calculus,
I've overcome much of it in the past 3 months simply because I suddenly
found it "interesting".

As to education, I'm surprised at the number of folks with "associates" or
"baccalaureate" degrees that are totally lacking in the sciences. They do
seem proficient, however, at "cut and paste".

Science is troublesome for "modern" humans. While so many enjoy
technology, they get rapidly uncomfortable with the underlying science.

Don't worry though, we're moving to "Faith Based Science". The pilot
program is going on right now in Kansas.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:

Science is troublesome for "modern" humans.

Well, at least some of them. A very vocal group, though.

While so many enjoy
technology, they get rapidly uncomfortable with the underlying
science.

"Inherit The Wind" all over again.

Don't worry though, we're moving to "Faith Based Science".

An oxymoron if there ever was one!

The pilot program is going on right now in Kansas.

The surreal thing about it is that it comes down to trying to
understand a complex Book, not science. In fact, it's all about
just the first few chapters of that Book.

Yet one wonders if those who are most adamant about said Book
have actually read it, because in its first few chapters, it
tells two different creation stories that contradict each
other.

73 de Jim, N2EY