Blue Cornchips wrote:


Vijay Mukhi, a call centre analyst, said websites have sprung up in the
US giving phone numbers of companies which use call centres in India,
and listing Hindi swear words to be used to abuse staff. 'When you move
jobs away from a country, there's going to be a lot of pent-up
frustration which gets let out on Indian workers,' he said.

There might not be so much frustration if they could understand enough
English to understand your problem. I delt with a help desk in India
over a credit card issue...never could get it across what my problem was
no matter how many ways I attempted to expalin it, when I asked to speak
to a manager, she hung up.
Maybe these companies will finally get the message that customers are
getting tired of dealing with people who can't understand enough English
to be of any help and bring the support centers back to the U.S. Don't
hold your breath.

"Back off, Paki, and don't call me again",
 

Shamelessly stolen from alt.tasteless:

(a real laugh riot! Great ways on how 2 insult foreign tech support monkeys
!!)

"Auto" wrote in message
oups.com...
Indian call staff quit over abuse on the line

Abuse from British and American customers is driving increasing numbers
of Indian call centre workers from their jobs, defeated by the strain
of handling persistent rudeness.

Irate customers was cited as one of the main industry stress factors in
a recent survey of call centre staff and some organisations have begun
employing psychiatrists and counsellors to help employees to cope.

'I've had people tell me, "Back off, Paki, and don't call me again",
said Eugene, 27, whose former employer, Spectrumind, provided an
accounts services for BT. 'There was a lot of racist abuse once people
detected from our accents that we weren't English. I saw girls reduced
to tears by it.'

Pooja Chopra, 29, from Delhi, who spent two years fielding calls for BT
Cellnet and America Online, faced similar abuse. 'People would say,
"You're a Paki, I don't want to talk to you, pass me to someone who can
speak my language".

Workers face a spectrum of rudeness - from sexual harassment to fury at
unsolicited sales calls, to open racism. Industry analysts have seen
the phenomenon of racist clients grow in recent years, as customers in
the UK and the US become increasingly sensitive to the political issue
of jobs outsourced to India.

Shyamanuja Das, editor of Global Outsourcing magazine, which published
a study on the stress factors triggering call centre resignations, said
that hostility from clients was one of the factors which caused workers
to quit - 25 per cent of those questioned said client vitriol was a
major cause of stress.

'The anger in the West over job losses and fear about offshoring has
made this a growing problem. Some people call up with deliberately
difficult questions. Most just say things like: "You're from India. You
don't know anything. I don't want to speak to you", he said.

Vijay Mukhi, a call centre analyst, said websites have sprung up in the
US giving phone numbers of companies which use call centres in India,
and listing Hindi swear words to be used to abuse staff. 'When you move
jobs away from a country, there's going to be a lot of pent-up
frustration which gets let out on Indian workers,' he said.

As staff turnover is a major problem, with some companies battling an
annual departure rate of 60-70 per cent, organisations are taking
radical steps to help staff to deal with abuse. In recent months some
firms have decided to provide psychological support to their workers.
Sanjay Salooja's Delhi-based firm, Empower, has 20 trained counsellors
who tour the city's largest call centres, providing support to harassed
employees.

'Most employees are very young and don't have the skills to allow them
to cope with this kind of abuse,' he said. Workers are already feeling
the stress of having to work through the night and are under extreme
pressure to meet productivity targets. 'They are vulnerable anyway, and
an abusive call really knocks confidence. They don't want to take
another call for an hour or two, and their performance is impacted.'

The idea of consulting therapists remains taboo in much of Indian
society, but the stigma is waning. 'Our research shows that about 50
per cent of workers would like the chance to receive counselling,'
Deepal Raheja, one of the programme's psychiatrists, said.

The therapists try to help staff realise that the abuse is not personal
and to put things in perspective, he said. 'Somebody I counselled was
very upset after a British customer had asked for an address near
Trafalgar Square and he had to admit he didn't know where Trafalgar
Square was. His customer became very abusive, and the incident really
dented his self-esteem,' he said.

Some companies still specify staff must anglicise their names, adopting
forenames such as Mary and John, to try to stave off resentment.

There are no unions yet to represent the 350,000 workers in the Indian
call centre business, but unionist Gautam Mody, who is trying to launch
the first call centre workers' collective, said this was a problem that
needed to be addressed urgently abroad. 'Some workers are deeply hurt
by this abuse. The issue of xenophobia cannot be resolved from this
end; there must be a battle against it in the countries responsible.'

More organisations have started to let staff hang up on persistently
rude customers (formerly a sackable offence), after warning them three
times to mind their language. Trainers try to help new staff understand
the different cultural forms of rudeness they are likely to encounter.

'British customers can be very rude but in a polite way,' Anita
Bhuttar, training vice-president of GTL, a Mumbai-based company, said.
'Usually they won't use abusive language but you can tell from the tone
of their voice they're angry.'

'I found it difficult to work for British clients,' Pooja Chopra said.
'They wouldn't call you names, but you could hear the hostility in
their voices. The US customers were generally much more easy-going.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/inter...494871,00.html

Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:
Blue Cornchips wrote:


Vijay Mukhi, a call centre analyst, said websites have sprung up in the
US giving phone numbers of companies which use call centres in India,
and listing Hindi swear words to be used to abuse staff. 'When you move
jobs away from a country, there's going to be a lot of pent-up
frustration which gets let out on Indian workers,' he said.


There might not be so much frustration if they could understand enough
English to understand your problem. I delt with a help desk in India
over a credit card issue...never could get it across what my problem was
no matter how many ways I attempted to expalin it, when I asked to speak
to a manager, she hung up.
Maybe these companies will finally get the message that customers are
getting tired of dealing with people who can't understand enough English
to be of any help and bring the support centers back to the U.S. Don't
hold your breath.


It's worse than you think. The US politicians seem addicted to using overseas
call centres. You'd think they would keep the jobs at home, being your public
servants and all...

=============================================

Georgia is one of 32 states using the same two call centers in India and another
in Mexico for Spanish-speaking callers.

http://www.11alive.com/specials/uswo...?storyid=49513
=============================================




mike

m II wrote in news:E39oe.42532$tt5.1042@edtnps90:

Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:
Blue Cornchips wrote:


Vijay Mukhi, a call centre analyst, said websites have sprung up in
the US giving phone numbers of companies which use call centres in
India, and listing Hindi swear words to be used to abuse staff.
'When you move jobs away from a country, there's going to be a lot
of pent-up frustration which gets let out on Indian workers,' he
said.


There might not be so much frustration if they could understand enough
English to understand your problem. I delt with a help desk in India
over a credit card issue...never could get it across what my problem
was no matter how many ways I attempted to expalin it, when I asked to
speak to a manager, she hung up.
Maybe these companies will finally get the message that customers are
getting tired of dealing with people who can't understand enough
English to be of any help and bring the support centers back to the
U.S. Don't hold your breath.


It's worse than you think. The US politicians seem addicted to using
overseas call centres. You'd think they would keep the jobs at home,
being your public servants and all...

=============================================

Georgia is one of 32 states using the same two call centers in India
and another in Mexico for Spanish-speaking callers.

http://www.11alive.com/specials/uswo...e.aspx?storyid
=49513 =============================================




mike


Most Indians speak very good English, at least in the cities, AFAIK. I've
never been to India, but all the Indians I've met elsewhere spoke perfect
English, albeit sometimes heavily accented. They have many different
languages and use English as a lingua franca to talk to other Indians in
their own country, so complete fluency is more the rule than the exception.

Of course, they do speak what you would regard as British English, but I
understand that the call centres all give training in American
colloquialisms. I've never had the least trouble communicating with anyone
in Indian call centres, but then I am British, after all. Perhaps you will
all have to learn the Queen's English? It makes a change from learning to
label your rubbish 'basura'. Perhaps I could offer classes in how to
communicate with call centres in proper English. Note that they are call
'centres', not 'centers'. The British Empire strikes back!

They always seem particularly pleased to hear an English voice on the line,
and sometimes ask me if I like cricket. I think it is a relief for them not
to have to talk American. They can get quite chatty. There was one funny
incident when I asked one of them if he was in India and he told me that he
wasn't allowed to answer that question!

"The US politicians seem addicted to using overseas call centres."

JS Just how are politicians addicted to using overseas calling
centers. Other than the occasional one who might call a porn talk site
of course....

I agree. My experience with american call centers has been about as
good as those that appear to be located overseas. The quality of the
response is directly related to the skills and knowlege of the
individual - their location has little to do with it. Tucson, Arizona
has numerous call centers operating there, and I would guess many of
the operators have a non-U.S. accent as well. When calling a call
center my purpose is to get information. I've found that by staying
cordial and sometimes repeating a question that I get the results I'm
looking for. Some on this forum(not you) seem to be more focused on
insulting the operators and generally causing problems. They must have
a lot of free time.

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
.. .
m II wrote in news:E39oe.42532$tt5.1042@edtnps90:

Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:
Blue Cornchips wrote:


Vijay Mukhi, a call centre analyst, said websites have sprung up in
the US giving phone numbers of companies which use call centres in
India, and listing Hindi swear words to be used to abuse staff.
'When you move jobs away from a country, there's going to be a lot
of pent-up frustration which gets let out on Indian workers,' he
said.


There might not be so much frustration if they could understand enough
English to understand your problem. I delt with a help desk in India
over a credit card issue...never could get it across what my problem
was no matter how many ways I attempted to expalin it, when I asked to
speak to a manager, she hung up.
Maybe these companies will finally get the message that customers are
getting tired of dealing with people who can't understand enough
English to be of any help and bring the support centers back to the
U.S. Don't hold your breath.


It's worse than you think. The US politicians seem addicted to using
overseas call centres. You'd think they would keep the jobs at home,
being your public servants and all...

=============================================

Georgia is one of 32 states using the same two call centers in India
and another in Mexico for Spanish-speaking callers.

http://www.11alive.com/specials/uswo...e.aspx?storyid
=49513 =============================================




mike


Most Indians speak very good English, at least in the cities, AFAIK. I've
never been to India, but all the Indians I've met elsewhere spoke perfect
English, albeit sometimes heavily accented. They have many different
languages and use English as a lingua franca to talk to other Indians in
their own country, so complete fluency is more the rule than the
exception.

Of course, they do speak what you would regard as British English, but I
understand that the call centres all give training in American
colloquialisms. I've never had the least trouble communicating with anyone
in Indian call centres, but then I am British, after all. Perhaps you will
all have to learn the Queen's English? It makes a change from learning to
label your rubbish 'basura'. Perhaps I could offer classes in how to
communicate with call centres in proper English. Note that they are call
'centres', not 'centers'. The British Empire strikes back!

They always seem particularly pleased to hear an English voice on the
line,
and sometimes ask me if I like cricket. I think it is a relief for them
not
to have to talk American. They can get quite chatty. There was one funny
incident when I asked one of them if he was in India and he told me that
he
wasn't allowed to answer that question!


Hello, Alan


Thank you for your kind offer, but I have a few friends in the U.K. who have
kindly offered to teach me the Queen's English.

I did catch some flak one time when I created a database and had a
sub-category of "moulded" components. We tend to drop the letter "u" over
here quite a bit. And we had better, given the political climate over here
:))

Unfortunately, I have no idea if I can set my spell checker for the Queen's
English; if I could, I most certainly would as I would use it especially to
communicate with a couple of extreme right-wing friends on the net ;)

For what it is worth, my grandfather (my father's dad) was Scottish; he
emigrated to the U.S. when he was 7 years old.



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

Best to avoid racist terms such as "paki". It's right up there with
"******". "Monkey" is no better - only applied from what I see to non-white
persons, it's at about the level of "boy".

Blue Cornchips wrote:


Shamelessly stolen from alt.tasteless:

(a real laugh riot! Great ways on how 2 insult foreign tech support
monkeys !!)

uncle arnie wrote:

Best to avoid racist terms such as "paki". It's right up there with
"******". "Monkey" is no better - only applied from what I see to non-white
persons, it's at about the level of "boy".

Blue Cornchips wrote:


Shamelessly stolen from alt.tasteless:

(a real laugh riot! Great ways on how 2 insult foreign tech support
monkeys !!)



And people then wonder why the tech support "monkey" in India is so
surly. If you lived in Bangalore and had to work from 9pm to 5am doing
tech support for Americans who call you "paki" all the time, you'd be
mad too.


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Most Indians speak very good English, at least in the cities, AFAIK. I've
never been to India, but all the Indians I've met elsewhere spoke perfect
English, albeit sometimes heavily accented. They have many different
languages and use English as a lingua franca to talk to other Indians in
their own country, so complete fluency is more the rule than the exception.

I know that most Indians speak good English, and I have no problem
with their accent. But I had one once who apparently did not
understand English. It was as if he was reading from a script and was
expecting a certain answer back. It was VERY frustrating. Perhaps if
these call centers were a little more discriminating in who they
hired.

"running dogg" wrote in message
...
uncle arnie wrote:

Best to avoid racist terms such as "paki". It's right up there with
"******". "Monkey" is no better - only applied from what I see to
non-white
persons, it's at about the level of "boy".

Blue Cornchips wrote:


Shamelessly stolen from alt.tasteless:

(a real laugh riot! Great ways on how 2 insult foreign tech support
monkeys !!)



And people then wonder why the tech support "monkey" in India is so
surly. If you lived in Bangalore and had to work from 9pm to 5am doing
tech support for Americans who call you "paki" all the time, you'd be
mad too.


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----

Excuse me....what the hell is a paki? And why is it a racist slur?

Dan/W4NTI

uncle arnie wrote in
:

Best to avoid racist terms such as "paki". It's right up there with
"******". "Monkey" is no better - only applied from what I see to
non-white persons, it's at about the level of "boy".


Well, President Bush said "paki" once a couple years ago, out of naivety,
so why can't everyone else?

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"running dogg" wrote in message


Excuse me....what the hell is a paki?

A Pakistani. I heard the term used in Canada years before I first heard
it used in the U.S.

And why is it a racist slur?

Beats me. Ask one.

Dan/W4NTI

w3rv

Dan/W4NTI wrote:


"running dogg" wrote in message
...

Excuse me....what the hell is a paki? And why is it a racist slur?

Dan/W4NTI

It is a term for someone of East Indian descent. My East Indian friends
from the Caribbean and Europe, some of the many generations, take great
offence to it. It is derived from Pakistan, which is a mostly a Moslem
country. Indians tend to be Hindu. So it's a combination of wrong
country, wrong religion, as well as used by others who aren't part of the
India/Hindu - Pakistan/Moslem wars and conflict as a direct insult. There
is zero tolerance for it in schools here for instance. Perhaps there are
no East Indians where you live.

No offense to those who live in other countries, those who are from other
countries living here, etc. BUT, John S., when the job loss is in your
household, the frustration will be quite evident in you, as well, I am sure.
I can logically figure out that it is not the "other peoples'" fault.
However, the emotion of losing a job, and sometimes just shy of retirement,
many times after long, long years at a company, is quite overwhelming and
leaves one short of "feeling friendly."

Kim W5TIT

"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...
I agree. My experience with american call centers has been about as
good as those that appear to be located overseas. The quality of the
response is directly related to the skills and knowlege of the
individual - their location has little to do with it. Tucson, Arizona
has numerous call centers operating there, and I would guess many of
the operators have a non-U.S. accent as well. When calling a call
center my purpose is to get information. I've found that by staying
cordial and sometimes repeating a question that I get the results I'm
looking for. Some on this forum(not you) seem to be more focused on
insulting the operators and generally causing problems. They must have
a lot of free time.

Those who are interested, here's a link to a radio program about Indian call
centres and the social conditions that bring them to India.

http://www.cbc.ca/dispatches/summer2003.html

This is the text, search for India and you'll come to the real audio link:

College graduates often complain how hard it is to find a job these days.
But imagine living in India, where unemployment among young people can be
more than 50 percent.

Getting work on the subcontinent is kind of like staying dry in monsoon
season.

Except in the southern city of Bangalore, where the CBC's Mihira Lakshman
says the ability to sound like you're from the American heartland, is the
key to a whole new kind of career.

On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 23:22:04 GMT, Aristotle wrote:

I know that most Indians speak good English, and I have no problem
with their accent. But I had one once who apparently did not
understand English. It was as if he was reading from a script and was
expecting a certain answer back. It was VERY frustrating. Perhaps if
these call centers were a little more discriminating in who they
hired.

The problem which I find most is not lack of fluency with English
(in any of its variations) but lack of fluency in the subject at
hand. How can you get assistance with a PC card driver, for
instance, when the person doesn't know (or denies) that the
particular operating system which is being used exists?

Fortunately these problems don't crop up that often for me.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

"uncle arnie" wrote in message
...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:


"running dogg" wrote in message
...

Excuse me....what the hell is a paki? And why is it a racist slur?

Dan/W4NTI

It is a term for someone of East Indian descent. My East Indian friends
from the Caribbean and Europe, some of the many generations, take great
offence to it. It is derived from Pakistan, which is a mostly a Moslem
country. Indians tend to be Hindu. So it's a combination of wrong
country, wrong religion, as well as used by others who aren't part of the
India/Hindu - Pakistan/Moslem wars and conflict as a direct insult. There
is zero tolerance for it in schools here for instance. Perhaps there are
no East Indians where you live.




Awww, fer crying out loud. Another Politically Correct hand-wringer steps in
and wants to play the part of a Thought Policeman.
Know what? I have lived in this country all my life and can and will admit
that I would prefer to sometimes use the somewhat generic term, Raghead. It
is succinct and to the point.
So what if THEY are offended? And who are YOU to suggest that I or anybody
else should abide by your concept of what is acceptable and what is not?

"uncle arnie" wrote in message
...
Those who are interested, here's a link to a radio program about Indian call
centres and the social conditions that bring them to India.

http://www.cbc.ca/dispatches/summer2003.html

This is the text, search for India and you'll come to the real audio link:

College graduates often complain how hard it is to find a job these days.
But imagine living in India, where unemployment among young people can be
more than 50 percent.

Getting work on the subcontinent is kind of like staying dry in monsoon
season.

Except in the southern city of Bangalore, where the CBC's Mihira Lakshman
says the ability to sound like you're from the American heartland, is the
key to a whole new kind of career.



Maybe they should do something about their skyrocketing birth rate.....

Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?

Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around $300
per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one guy
was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life insurance.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00 per
hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance. I
have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm just
tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note that
as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some folks
will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or the
current administration.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8 hours
of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to other
folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When our
department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about the
fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982). When
he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't save
his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty, but
in this case .... :))

Make my day.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as "geeks"
or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real flack.
It is about time that they did.

I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a mile,
but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of the
B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.

I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group I
co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA




"Kim" wrote in message
...
No offense to those who live in other countries, those who are from other
countries living here, etc. BUT, John S., when the job loss is in your
household, the frustration will be quite evident in you, as well, I am
sure.
I can logically figure out that it is not the "other peoples'" fault.
However, the emotion of losing a job, and sometimes just shy of
retirement,
many times after long, long years at a company, is quite overwhelming and
leaves one short of "feeling friendly."

Kim W5TIT

"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...
I agree. My experience with american call centers has been about as
good as those that appear to be located overseas. The quality of the
response is directly related to the skills and knowlege of the
individual - their location has little to do with it. Tucson, Arizona
has numerous call centers operating there, and I would guess many of
the operators have a non-U.S. accent as well. When calling a call
center my purpose is to get information. I've found that by staying
cordial and sometimes repeating a question that I get the results I'm
looking for. Some on this forum(not you) seem to be more focused on
insulting the operators and generally causing problems. They must have
a lot of free time.

Bill Turner wrote:


And why is it a racist slur?

__________________________________________________ ____________

To hell with all this PC crap. You call me a Yank, I'll call you a Paki
and we'll have a beer and laugh about the silliness of some people.

--
Bill, W6WRT

For the uneducated redneck you must be to post such idiocy, to bring it
closer to home, you should say "I'll call you ****** and we'll have a
beer ..."

Since when is racism PC crap? Heard about Bosnia, Rwanda, Sudan, Kashmir?

"uncle arnie" wrote in message
...
Bill Turner wrote:


And why is it a racist slur?

__________________________________________________ ____________

To hell with all this PC crap. You call me a Yank, I'll call you a Paki
and we'll have a beer and laugh about the silliness of some people.

--
Bill, W6WRT

For the uneducated redneck you must be to post such idiocy, to bring it
closer to home, you should say "I'll call you ****** and we'll have a
beer ..."

Since when is racism PC crap? Heard about Bosnia, Rwanda, Sudan, Kashmir?
__________________________________________________ ____________

Here we go again. More PC hand wringing from the mewling, overly sensitive
leftistas.
Go to Rwanda and tell those black thugs with machetes in their hands to
stop. See what it will get you.

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
ganews.com...
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 23:22:04 GMT, Aristotle wrote:

I know that most Indians speak good English, and I have no problem
with their accent. But I had one once who apparently did not
understand English. It was as if he was reading from a script and was
expecting a certain answer back. It was VERY frustrating. Perhaps if
these call centers were a little more discriminating in who they
hired.

The problem which I find most is not lack of fluency with English
(in any of its variations) but lack of fluency in the subject at
hand. How can you get assistance with a PC card driver, for
instance, when the person doesn't know (or denies) that the
particular operating system which is being used exists?

Fortunately these problems don't crop up that often for me.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

While they don't crop up that often for me either, I don't bother to call
the help desks for the very reason that you mention. I just keep plodding
along until I manage to figure it out for myself.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
ganews.com...
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 23:22:04 GMT, Aristotle wrote:

I know that most Indians speak good English, and I have no problem
with their accent. But I had one once who apparently did not
understand English. It was as if he was reading from a script and was
expecting a certain answer back. It was VERY frustrating. Perhaps if
these call centers were a little more discriminating in who they
hired.

The problem which I find most is not lack of fluency with English
(in any of its variations) but lack of fluency in the subject at
hand. How can you get assistance with a PC card driver, for
instance, when the person doesn't know (or denies) that the
particular operating system which is being used exists?

Fortunately these problems don't crop up that often for me.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

While they don't crop up that often for me either, I don't bother to call
the help desks for the very reason that you mention. I just keep plodding
along until I manage to figure it out for myself.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Agreed, Dee. I am fortunate in that I have several savvy friends who are
more than willing to assist me in my times of need. I also find it a
personal challenge to muddle through the glitches as they crop up and try to
resolve them myself. It is a great "hands-on" learning experience.
At least that is how I view it.

I guess it is a trade-off, eh? Spend two hours on the phone listening to
canned music or spend two hours figuring it out for one's self. As you said,
it doesn't crop all that often.

John S. wrote:

"The US politicians seem addicted to using overseas call centres."

JS Just how are politicians addicted to using overseas calling
centers. Other than the occasional one who might call a porn talk site
of course....


Good point. I should have been more precise and said that many US state
governments are too quick to ship jobs overseas. An irony in all of this is that
many of the social assistance programs are managed out of country. If the jobs
were kept in North America, there would be far fewer people needing the services
of the very people that deprived them of a possible income.




mike

"uncle arnie" wrote in message
...
For the uneducated redneck you must be to post such idiocy, to bring it
closer to home, you should say "I'll call you ****** and we'll have a
beer ..."

I heard something similar said by a friend at the Legion Hall last night!
(grin)
The beer and liquor was flowing last night you see.. :)


Since when is racism PC crap? Heard about Bosnia, Rwanda, Sudan,
Kashmir?

Yes.

Those are four countries which should have been left up to their
own devices and not rcvd on dime of Foreign (USA) Aide.
Bosnia is populated by the descendents of migrating gypsies who want to
set up a quasi-Islamic State right on Europe's doorstep. They just may
get the chance now thanks to Bill Clinton's intervention in the former
Yugoslavia in the late 90's. Bottom line is that country and it's neighbors
were much better off under Tito who kept them in order with an iron rod.
When he kicked off you saw Yugoslavia go right back to it's pre - WW-I
borders and the conflicts of the turn of the last Century flared up again.
This area has been a historic breeding ground for hotheads anyway going
back several hundred Years.

As for Rwanda and Sudan, here you have a classic case of religious fervor
mixed with a climate and landscape not unlike the moon (albeit hot and dry)
and a race of people who breed like hedgerow rabbits. Anyone with even a
partial working brain can see this is a powderkeg just waiting to go off.
There's too damm many people in Africa anyway, overpopulation run
amuck with rampant Islam and corrupt politics, so you can be sure that
Mother Nature is going to do her best to cull this herd for sure! She's
doing
it right now via HIV, desertification and climate change. Sit back and
watch
M.N. in action kids! Amazing how she can clear off the land of the human
locusts and yet leave the raw materials intact eh? Sort of like a Neutron
Bomb
in slo-motion....

Finally we have Kashmir! A disputed border region being roe'd about by
Pakistan and India. Two countries who have two greatly opposing religions
and a population that breeds like field mice...and best of all...THEY BOTH
HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS!! Now this is a comedy act we really need
to watch very closely folks. I will never forget seeing the video of
ignorant and
inbred pakistanies a few years ago, riding atop a fake nuclear missile prop
in a victory parade urging their Govt. to launch a real one onto Deli or
Bombay.
This was the 'paki' version of "Dr. Strangelove or How I Learned Love The
Bomb" with Dr Kahn playing Peter Sellers. Here you have a group of people
who would love to see parts of India glow with radioactivity, and yet they
forget
that the fallout would rain down on Pakistan afterwards! (talk about
nuclear
Darwinism!) The Indians are not much better, they believe in 1000 different
gods and are not worried if they get nuked because they will come back as
a monkey or a cow or some other mutated form of life. One wants to nuke
Krishina for Allah....the other wants to nuke Allah for Krishina....GO
FIGURE!

Know what I say folks...? LET THEM KILL EACH OTHER OFF !

There are too dammed many people on this Planet anyway, and the masses
of candidates for a mass-culling are, for the most part: stupid, easily led
by
religious craptrap, uneducated, and baby-making machines. In short an army
of biomass which is incapable of intellectual advancement, which thus must
advance itself via sheer numbers by rampant biomass and unrestrained
breeding.
A living cancer on the face of the planetscape. Yes, let them kill each
other off
via Mother Natures help. She's already giving us a warning that the
planet's reserves
of petroleum products have reached their peak (look up 'Peak Oil' on
google) and
it's all downhill from here folks. The 3rd extinction has begun and it has
been caused
by HUMANS!

In closing , let me remind you of the words of the Georgia Guidestones:

1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.
3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason.
5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world
court.
7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
9. Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite.
10.Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for
nature.

They say it all !

uncle arnie wrote:

Those who are interested, here's a link to a radio program about Indian call
centres and the social conditions that bring them to India.

http://www.cbc.ca/dispatches/summer2003.html

This is the text, search for India and you'll come to the real audio link:

College graduates often complain how hard it is to find a job these days.
But imagine living in India, where unemployment among young people can be
more than 50 percent.

Getting work on the subcontinent is kind of like staying dry in monsoon
season.

Except in the southern city of Bangalore, where the CBC's Mihira Lakshman
says the ability to sound like you're from the American heartland, is the
key to a whole new kind of career.

Depending on what you are calling about the last time I called for
assistance with my Dell was last month the call went to Manilla. The
month before that it was Deli.

wrote in message
...
uncle arnie wrote:

Those who are interested, here's a link to a radio program about Indian
call
centres and the social conditions that bring them to India.

http://www.cbc.ca/dispatches/summer2003.html

This is the text, search for India and you'll come to the real audio
link:

College graduates often complain how hard it is to find a job these days.
But imagine living in India, where unemployment among young people can be
more than 50 percent.

Getting work on the subcontinent is kind of like staying dry in monsoon
season.

Except in the southern city of Bangalore, where the CBC's Mihira Lakshman
says the ability to sound like you're from the American heartland, is the
key to a whole new kind of career.

Depending on what you are calling about the last time I called for
assistance with my Dell was last month the call went to Manilla. The
month before that it was Deli.


It will generally depend upon the time of day that you are calling in for
assistance. Companies route their calls to the area of the world that is
"awake" when you are calling.

Mind everyone on ths thread: I keep seeing posts as though it is only
computer help that has call centers in foreign lands. That is incorrect.
There's a huge swing in the United States to outsource any--*any*--telephone
contact to foreign "BPOs" (Business Process Outsourcers). That means any
customer service you can think of, is more than likely being answered
overseas. Why? It's not that call centers here in the United States can't
be personed (being politically correct) 24-hrs a day. It's the bottom line.
It's supposedly cheaper to have the work done overseas. I doubt that it is,
given frustration levels of customers and, more definitely, the long term
effect of taking all that kind of work out of this country, putting people
out of work, and ultimately destroying your own customer base by not being
able to sell product. However, the short-term, money hungry, uncaring CEO
and affiliated BOD who are lining their pockets with their savings don't
care.

Kim W5TIT

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?


Sorry, Jim, almost like the bottom-line driven CEOs and BODs we have these
days, I was interested in speed, not accuracy :o


Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around
$300
per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one
guy
was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life
insurance.


In my company, MANY were within 6 mos. of eligible retirement age. Company
was asked, "why". Response: "it had to be done sometime, 'it's just
business.'" So, employees take note: forget about dedication to job and
customer, "it's just business." And, that attitude is quite evident in
customer service these days. You would probably believe how many people I
know who complain all the time about those "automated" response systems when
you call for help these days. Whenever I get someone on the phone, I tell
them that it's just miserable. Know what response I get? "That is the way
business operates and it is considered a Best Practice standard." Not even
a: "I will log your complaint." Know why? Because we, as consumers, accept
mediocrity and that becomes the local conversation when we gather with
friends. We talk about it, but we do nothing to try to resolve it. Uh, by
the way, I'm right in there and, whenever I try to think of how to battle
it, I can't come up with a solution because it's so ingrained in business
practice that EVERYONE is doing it.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00
per
hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance. I
have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.


Get this. Our adventure began a little over a year ago. Company "migrated"
all customer ops (because that was not their "core business"
[huh????????!!!!!!!!!!!!] to a firm where we are all now "contractors."
BUT, previous employer holds out severance package IF employees are
terminated within 18 months. We should have all figured out then that we
were all going to be terminated within 18 months...LOL Many are gone, the
rest are just waiting. Bad business, just can't convince and bigwigs of it
because, of course, their pockets are heavily lined with the savings.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm just
tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note
that
as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some folks
will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or the
current administration.


Refer to my upper paragraph on that. In another thread, "Indian Call
Centers" I think it is, I just posted that companies who are exporting
technical and customer service jobs don't realize that it means in the
future, they won't have customers to buy products. And, why should our
youth look at the career path of technology because it's all being
"outsourced." We already have a critically severe shortage of doctors,
nurses, and medical specialists (granted, not because of outsourcing but
because--it is said--our up and coming youth see the long hours and little
money and don't want to do it) coming up in the next ten years. I've
already heard many, many children of career technology parents being
counseled NOT to enter into the computer/technological because their job
function will not be there and/or will eventually lead to being outsourced.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8 hours
of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to
other
folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".


Heh heh...the gist in the company I work for is, beginning many years and
into recent years, frustrated programmers and data folks--who were
confronted with the silo attitude whenever they would request access into a
system--began writing their own little "additions" and subroutines to
existing processes. There are, literally, boxes that whir and run and no
one has a clue to what they are doing. Why? Because the person is long
gone and do ya think they'd be interested in helping out? LOL Anyone who
thinks their systems are pristinely designed and operated, with "one path"
philosophy...are in a la la land.

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When
our
department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about
the
fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982).
When
he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't
save
his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty, but
in this case .... :))

Make my day.


I hear ya...and feel your pain.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as
"geeks"
or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real
flack.
It is about time that they did.


I can nearly guarantee you that they won't care. Think about it. The
proverbial CEOs makes millions the first year in a company, and has not one
iota of plan to stay there for the long-term. The BODs are the same way.
The only place it needs to begin to show that people care is at the customer
level. And, once again as in politics, we've been fat, happy, and stupid.
And, the problem we now face, in politics and in our workforce, seems
insurmountable. I'm sounding terribly gloomy and doomy...but I know at
least you will understand what I'm talking about.

I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a mile,
but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of the
B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.


Yep. You got it. When a collective is needed...heh heh...it doesn't matter
but that there is a collective.

I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group I
co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA




Never been one much for patience with "holier than thou's," heh, as you have
seen in my posts with this newsgroup in the past. Don't have time for 'em,
don't care about 'em, don't care what they THINK they have over and on me.
Because, you know what? When it all crashes, I don't think nuttin' of going
out in the back yard and planting a garden. Many of them haven't even ever
touched dirt--or had to. ;)

Kim W5TIT

Kim wrote:
wrote in message
...
uncle arnie wrote:

Mind everyone on ths thread: I keep seeing posts as
though it is only
computer help that has call centers in foreign lands.
That is incorrect.
There's a huge swing in the United States to outsource
any--*any*--telephone
contact to foreign "BPOs" (Business Process Outsourcers).
That means any
customer service you can think of, is more than likely
being answered
overseas. Why? It's not that call centers here
in the United States can't
be personed (being politically correct) 24-hrs a day.
It's the bottom line.
It's supposedly cheaper to have the work done overseas.
I doubt that it is,
given frustration levels of customers and, more
definitely, the long term
effect of taking all that kind of work
out of this country, putting people
out of work, and ultimately destroying your own customer base
by not being able to sell product.

I agree 100%, Kim. The key part of what you wrote is "short term".
Those in charge cannot seem to understand that they
are driving their companies under in the long term.

However, the short-term, money hungry, uncaring CEO
and affiliated BOD who are lining their pockets with their
savings don't care.

It's even worse in some ways. Many of them are hired with
obscenely lucrative severance packages as part of their
packages. So if they do a "good job", they get big bonuses,
and if they do a bad job and are sacked, they get an
enormous (as in tens of millions) goodbye.

Puts a new twist on "win-win".

Look at the woman (just to show it's an equal-opportunity
game for those at the top) who ran Hewlett Packard into the ground for
a classic example.

The thing that's most classic about it is that the top dogs
claim they need to pay those high salaries and benefits
to get good people. Yet somehow that doesn't translate to the
rank and file.

--

Historic note: Way back in Model T days, Henry Ford was
criticized for paying his workers $5 per day, at a time when
that was really high wages for skilled manufacturing workers.

His reply was something to the effect that he wanted his workers to be
able to afford the product they were making - that it
didn't make sense to be producing something the average working
person could not afford to own.

Kim W5TIT


73 de Jim, N2EY

Jim Hampton wrote:
Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?

Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around $300
per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one guy
was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life insurance.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00 per
hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance. I
have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm just
tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note that
as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some folks
will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or the
current administration.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8 hours
of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to other
folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When our
department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about the
fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982). When
he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't save
his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty, but
in this case .... :))

Make my day.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as "geeks"
or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real flack.
It is about time that they did.

So you noticed that education is a "bad thing" too, eh, Jim?

I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a mile,
but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of the
B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.

Superiority based on either Morse code or the contents of the new or
old tests is shallow superiority indeed.

Thinking that such things impart superiority is even shallower.

I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group I
co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.

Yeah!

- Mike KB3EIA -

The most hilarious Indian with an accent I have heard was one which preaches
the Bible. Heard on SW recently!
So funny!

"uncle arnie" wrote in message
...
Those who are interested, here's a link to a radio program about Indian
call
centres and the social conditions that bring them to India.

http://www.cbc.ca/dispatches/summer2003.html

This is the text, search for India and you'll come to the real audio link:

College graduates often complain how hard it is to find a job these days.
But imagine living in India, where unemployment among young people can be
more than 50 percent.

Getting work on the subcontinent is kind of like staying dry in monsoon
season.

Except in the southern city of Bangalore, where the CBC's Mihira Lakshman
says the ability to sound like you're from the American heartland, is the
key to a whole new kind of career.

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Jim Hampton wrote:
Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?

Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around
$300
per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one
guy
was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life
insurance.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00
per
hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance.
I
have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm
just
tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note
that
as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some
folks
will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or
the
current administration.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8
hours
of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to
other
folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When
our
department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about
the
fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982).
When
he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't
save
his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty,
but
in this case .... :))

Make my day.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as
"geeks"
or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real
flack.
It is about time that they did.

So you noticed that education is a "bad thing" too, eh, Jim?

I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a
mile,
but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of
the
B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.

Superiority based on either Morse code or the contents of the new or
old tests is shallow superiority indeed.

Thinking that such things impart superiority is even shallower.

I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group
I
co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.

Yeah!

- Mike KB3EIA -

Hello, Mike

True enough. Interestingly, although I had some problems with The Calculus,
I've overcome much of it in the past 3 months simply because I suddenly
found it "interesting".

As to education, I'm surprised at the number of folks with "associates" or
"baccalaureate" degrees that are totally lacking in the sciences. They do
seem proficient, however, at "cut and paste".

Most interesting.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

"Kim" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
uncle arnie wrote:

Those who are interested, here's a link to a radio program about Indian
call
centres and the social conditions that bring them to India.

http://www.cbc.ca/dispatches/summer2003.html

This is the text, search for India and you'll come to the real audio
link:

College graduates often complain how hard it is to find a job these
days.
But imagine living in India, where unemployment among young people can
be
more than 50 percent.

Getting work on the subcontinent is kind of like staying dry in monsoon
season.

Except in the southern city of Bangalore, where the CBC's Mihira
Lakshman
says the ability to sound like you're from the American heartland, is
the
key to a whole new kind of career.

Depending on what you are calling about the last time I called for
assistance with my Dell was last month the call went to Manilla. The
month before that it was Deli.


It will generally depend upon the time of day that you are calling in for
assistance. Companies route their calls to the area of the world that is
"awake" when you are calling.

Mind everyone on ths thread: I keep seeing posts as though it is only
computer help that has call centers in foreign lands. That is incorrect.
There's a huge swing in the United States to outsource
any--*any*--telephone
contact to foreign "BPOs" (Business Process Outsourcers). That means any
customer service you can think of, is more than likely being answered
overseas. Why? It's not that call centers here in the United States
can't
be personed (being politically correct) 24-hrs a day. It's the bottom
line.
It's supposedly cheaper to have the work done overseas. I doubt that it
is,
given frustration levels of customers and, more definitely, the long term
effect of taking all that kind of work out of this country, putting people
out of work, and ultimately destroying your own customer base by not being
able to sell product. However, the short-term, money hungry, uncaring CEO
and affiliated BOD who are lining their pockets with their savings don't
care.

Kim W5TIT



Hello, Kim

A few years ago, I was with AT&T. It took, perhaps, only a minute or so to
be connected with the help desk.

I left for DSL and after two years went back to dial-up. Frontier (the DSL
provider) was good with the help desk. I only needed it once when they
changed my ISP address.

I needed the help desk once with AT&T. Reasonably fast, but obviously
Indian in origin, they kept offering me all of these "extras". Heck, I had
a problem with newgroups. Oh, no newsgroups. OK.

Well, I went back to Frontier. I received a new modem, but called the help
desk to see if I could use the old one from two years before. They answered
immediately. It was a local help desk. Yes, I could.

Well, no DSL signal. I called again and they informed me it would be turned
on two days later. Fine. I hung up and started watching television.

Suddenly, there were some "clicks" on the telephones in the house. I became
suspicious and turned on the modem. Sure enough, it synchronized with a DSL
signal. I turned on the computer and the internet came up with a rush that
I wasn't used to. A 3 megabaud pipe between me and the Internet. I was up
and running! Oh yes, free newsgroups :)

For this change from "decent" help support from India to "immediate" local
response and a change from 56k to 3,000k I had in increase from $15.00 per
month to $30.00 per month (ok, $29.95). I can handle that ;)

You betcha. This short sighted sh*t will catch up with various companies.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for my "agreement" to not work for a competitor to
end (24 months). I am thinking seriously of e-mailing a most interesting
program to a competitor. It was developed entirely at home on my computer
with my (purchased and legal) software. If they wish, they (the foreign
competitor) can mail me a dollar. No American company would pay me for it,
so the foreigners can have it; the former employer can deal with it later ;)

In the meantime, by not working, not only don't I have to pay taxes off the
top (and worry about paying for gasoline off what I am left), I may be
entitled to free care at the V.A. next year! Of course, I'll still have to
pay co-payments for prescriptions, but WTH.

Also, I am keeping up the modest payments to maintain my health coverage
from my former employer. Life is sweet :))

All I need is 4 more years to Social Insecurity.

As was stated in one of the "Startrek" movies, revenge is a dish best served
cold.



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

Jim Hampton wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

Jim Hampton wrote:

Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?

Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around

$300

per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one

guy

was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life

insurance.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00

per

hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance.

I

have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm

just

tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note

that

as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some

folks

will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or

the

current administration.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8

hours

of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to

other

folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When

our

department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about

the

fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982).

When

he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't

save

his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty,

but

in this case .... :))

Make my day.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as

"geeks"

or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real

flack.

It is about time that they did.

So you noticed that education is a "bad thing" too, eh, Jim?


I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a

mile,

but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of

the

B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.

Superiority based on either Morse code or the contents of the new or
old tests is shallow superiority indeed.

Thinking that such things impart superiority is even shallower.


I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group

I

co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.

Yeah!

- Mike KB3EIA -


Hello, Mike

True enough. Interestingly, although I had some problems with The Calculus,
I've overcome much of it in the past 3 months simply because I suddenly
found it "interesting".

As to education, I'm surprised at the number of folks with "associates" or
"baccalaureate" degrees that are totally lacking in the sciences. They do
seem proficient, however, at "cut and paste".

Science is troublesome for "modern" humans. While so many enjoy
technology, they get rapidly uncomfortable with the underlying science.

Don't worry though, we're moving to "Faith Based Science". The pilot
program is going on right now in Kansas.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Aristotle wrote in
:


Most Indians speak very good English, at least in the cities, AFAIK.
I've never been to India, but all the Indians I've met elsewhere spoke
perfect English, albeit sometimes heavily accented. They have many
different languages and use English as a lingua franca to talk to other
Indians in their own country, so complete fluency is more the rule than
the exception.

I know that most Indians speak good English, and I have no problem
with their accent. But I had one once who apparently did not
understand English. It was as if he was reading from a script and was
expecting a certain answer back. It was VERY frustrating. Perhaps if
these call centers were a little more discriminating in who they
hired.







Reading from a script reminds me of encounters in various fast food places
that go something like this:-

Customer: I'd like a burger and fries please

Staff person: Would you like fries with that?

The moral is that you don't have to be ignorant of the language to be
reading from a script

JS,

UA,

Mike Coslo wrote:

Science is troublesome for "modern" humans.

Well, at least some of them. A very vocal group, though.

While so many enjoy
technology, they get rapidly uncomfortable with the underlying
science.

"Inherit The Wind" all over again.

Don't worry though, we're moving to "Faith Based Science".

An oxymoron if there ever was one!

The pilot program is going on right now in Kansas.

The surreal thing about it is that it comes down to trying to
understand a complex Book, not science. In fact, it's all about
just the first few chapters of that Book.

Yet one wonders if those who are most adamant about said Book
have actually read it, because in its first few chapters, it
tells two different creation stories that contradict each
other.

73 de Jim, N2EY

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 20:23:07 -0400, Cmd Buzz Corey
wrote:

Blue Cornchips wrote:


Vijay Mukhi, a call centre analyst, said websites have sprung up in the
US giving phone numbers of companies which use call centres in India,
and listing Hindi swear words to be used to abuse staff. 'When you move
jobs away from a country, there's going to be a lot of pent-up
frustration which gets let out on Indian workers,' he said.

There might not be so much frustration if they could understand enough
English to understand your problem. I delt with a help desk in India
over a credit card issue...never could get it across what my problem was
no matter how many ways I attempted to expalin it, when I asked to speak
to a manager, she hung up.
Maybe these companies will finally get the message that customers are
getting tired of dealing with people who can't understand enough English
to be of any help and bring the support centers back to the U.S. Don't
hold your breath.

The best I ever heard was the guy in the US who couldn't tell
from the accesn whom he was dealing with. The clue came when the help
desk guy told him the problem was because he didn't have sufficient
rupees in his account.

Personally I've had good and bad Indians and good and bad
USians.

If I can't understand either kind, I ask for someone who can
speak and troubleshoot in ubderstandable English.