Lloyd:

Quit expecting everyone to format your text the way you would like
it--if you like it a particular way--format it that way. Get a new
generation news reader! Usenet is NOT what it used to be... if you
only have a 300 baud modem, upgrade!

Next thing you will want is your welfare check delivered with your
morning paper!

John

"Lloyd" wrote in message
...
If you are going to mouth off, stop top posting, and use the
correct headers.

73,

Lloyd


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Lloyd:

I don't doubt that everything you do is as simple as it looks, I
don't think you are devious, cunning or stealthy--however, don't be
fool enough to think everyone else the same--you will make one grave
error...

Yanno, my life is a conspiracy, and it is my family, my friends and
me against the world.

In my job, we have trade secrets and act in the companies best
interests--we don't disclose these interests or our long range
plans--however, you can bet that we do NOT feel obligated to look out
for others best interests--that is their responsibility...

... perhaps you are just one simple guy--but you make a grave error
if you think that applies to all others... now, go back to
sleep--don't worry, be happy--others will take care of things for
you...

John

"Lloyd" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...

Here is Hollingsworth on his "vision(s)", some may interpret it
differently:

John



The only "vision" Hollingsworth has is a lavish tax payer
finance retirement.

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Lloyd:

Quit expecting everyone to format your text the way you would like it--if
you like it a particular way--format it that way. Get a new generation
news reader! Usenet is NOT what it used to be... if you only have a 300
baud modem, upgrade!

Next thing you will want is your welfare check delivered with your morning
paper!

John



To paraphrase Stagger Lee, I accept your
humble apolgy and hope you have learned something.

73,

Lloyd

Lloyd wrote:
If you are going to mouth off, stop top posting, and use the
correct headers.

73,

Lloyd


"John Smith" wrote in message
...

Just like you top-posted? .......

Although several years ago, Riley's comments are worth a look:

"This Amateur Radio service is serious business."

Not once in the speech is the word "hobby" used.


"...I know that when a natural disaster hits, they're [cell towers]
the first ones to go down. And the few that are remaining are jammed
and you can't get access. The people who are going to be taking care
of the real communications are sitting right here in this room. It's
the Amateur Radio service. And in the first few days, or the first few
hours of these multi-jurisdictional incidents, it's the amateurs who
keep things going."

"There was a big newspaper chain that had a reporter with headphones on
listening to the hurricane emergency net. That made us nervous. The
last thing we wanted was some bad publicity for the Amateur Radio
service anywhere."

"Our people that go to these ITU meetings will tell us that it's
often a personal embarassment to them when these countries play back
tapes of what they hear on 75 and 20 Meters in the American amateur
bands."

On the American 'phone subbands. Not CW/data subbands...

"It puts them in a very difficult position when they have to defend
examples of conduct that other countries hear."

Should be "'nuff said".....

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
Although several years ago, Riley's comments are worth a look:

"This Amateur Radio service is serious business."

Not once in the speech is the word "hobby" used.

Must be why this newsgroup is on "rec" along with all the other
hobbies.

"...I know that when a natural disaster hits, they're [cell towers]
the first ones to go down. And the few that are remaining are jammed
and you can't get access. The people who are going to be taking care
of the real communications are sitting right here in this room. It's
the Amateur Radio service. And in the first few days, or the first few
hours of these multi-jurisdictional incidents, it's the amateurs who
keep things going."

Perhaps.

"There was a big newspaper chain that had a reporter with headphones on
listening to the hurricane emergency net. That made us nervous. The
last thing we wanted was some bad publicity for the Amateur Radio
service anywhere."

Can't newspaper reporters read Morse Code?

"Our people that go to these ITU meetings will tell us that it's
often a personal embarassment to them when these countries play back
tapes of what they hear on 75 and 20 Meters in the American amateur
bands."

Shirley they're not embarassed by what comes across headline news about
their country. It's only when some old fhart on 75/20M gets riled and
makes a fool of himself that causes national embarassment in America.

On the American 'phone subbands. Not CW/data subbands...

The Coders should take over the phone bands. Revolution!

"It puts them in a very difficult position when they have to defend
examples of conduct that other countries hear."

What's wrong with them???

They shouldn't defend it. They should condemn it.

Should be "'nuff said".....

73 de Jim, N2EY

Should be, but never is....

bb wrote:
wrote:
Although several years ago, Riley's comments are worth a look:

"This Amateur Radio service is serious business."

Not once in the speech is the word "hobby" used.

Must be why this newsgroup is on "rec" along with all the other
hobbies.

Guess it's because someone OTHER than an FCC operative had to make
that call?

Steve, K4YZ

From: on Mon 27 Jun 2005 03:19

Although several years ago, Riley's comments are worth a look:

"This Amateur Radio service is serious business."

From Riley Hollingsworth's position as Special Counsel to the
FCC Spectral Enforcement office of the Enforcement Bureau,
obeyance of federal law IS "serious business."

Not once in the speech is the word "hobby" used.

?

Hollingsworth is NOT in the FCC "Key People," "Division Chiefs,"
or "Regional Director" listings at the FCC of their Enforcement
Bureau. One has to go deeper into the Spectral office of the
Enforcement Bureau where Hollingsworth is listed as second from
bottom on that office's "key people" listing...as one of two who
are "Special Counsel."

Hollingsworth is NOT over at the Wireless Telecommunications
Bureau, the one that is immediately responsible for amateur radio
at the FCC.

It is true that nowhere in Title 47 C.F.R. are the words "hobby"
or "ham radio" given. On the other hand, Part 97 rather
specifically defines amateur radio as an activity done for a
NON-pecuniary reason. That doesn't even mention "money" though
it is obvious that it means that amateur radio CANNOT accept
money for doing any communications service for others.

Amateur radio in the USA is forbidden by law to engage in
broadcasting. Amateur radio in the USA is forbidden by law to
be a public communications common carrier...that is, specifically
as a provider of radio communications services. Amateur radio
regulations even state that amateur communications themselves
are to be of a trivial nature and amateurs themselves are
supposed to avail themselves of commercial communications
services for non-trivial communications.

Amateur radio in the USA is NOT a "national service." All
throughout Title 47 C.F.R. the word "service" is a regulatory
term denoting a type and kind of radio activity being regulated.

Is the Citizens Band Radio SERVICE a "national service?" No.
Is the Amateur Radio Service a "national service?" No.

There's a difference between words used "de jure" (by law as
stated) and "de facto" (what it really is in practice). Amateur
radio is a HOBBY...a recreational pursuit done for personal
pleasure, federally regulated only because of the physical nature
of radio wave propagation and possible interference with other
radio users. DE FACTO a HOBBY.


"...I know that when a natural disaster hits, they're [cell towers]
the first ones to go down. And the few that are remaining are jammed
and you can't get access."

Hollingsworth is "playing to his audience" (to use a show business
phrase).

Physically, the cellular telephone services, an adjunct to the
wired telephone infrastructure, does NOT "go down" either "first"
or last. TELEPHONE communications is "jammed" only by too many
panic-stricken subscribers trying to use it simultaneously at the
onset of some emergency. The TELEPHONE infrastructure would not
have survived as a communications service provider if "all"
subscribers were free to use it simultaneously.

" The people who are going to be taking care
of the real communications are sitting right here in this room. It's
the Amateur Radio service. And in the first few days, or the first few
hours of these multi-jurisdictional incidents, it's the amateurs who
keep things going."

In light of recent REAL EMERGENCIES, REAL HISTORY has shown
that the commercial services HAVE CONTINUED TO WORK despite
SOME of their facilities being "downed." Facilities are NOT
RESTRICTED to JUST telephones, wired and/or cellular. There
are, in this nation, literally, hundreds of thousands of OTHER
radios which can, and have, been used for two-way communications.
That is NOT counting CB or the approximately 100 million
cellular telephone radio handsets.

Eleven and a half years ago, during the Northridge Earthquake in
Los Angeles, NO amateur radio "emergency communications" were
working in the first hours of the earthquake-induced TOTAL AC
POWER OUTAGE. Public safety and utility radio services were
on the air and working despite the total electrical mains supply
being OFF. It took at least six hours for the Los Angeles area
power to BEGIN to be restored to subscribers on that necessary
BLACK START. Public safety and utility radios continued to
function, police and fire and paramedics rolled on calls,
hospitals were there with their own electric power and serving
patients. TEN MILLION residents were affected by that quake
and total power outage.

Hollingsworth is a special counsel to the Enforcement Bureau's
Spectral enforcers. He should KNOW BETTER than to perpetuate
such myths as he stated. But, Hollingsworth does NOT
specifically speak FOR amateur radio. He is little more than
a "radio cop in a suit."


"There was a big newspaper chain that had a reporter with headphones on
listening to the hurricane emergency net. That made us nervous. The
last thing we wanted was some bad publicity for the Amateur Radio
service anywhere."

"Our people that go to these ITU meetings will tell us that it's
often a personal embarassment to them when these countries play back
tapes of what they hear on 75 and 20 Meters in the American amateur
bands."

On the American 'phone subbands. Not CW/data subbands...

Oh, my, another MYTH. Simon Pure morseman "does not swear with
morse code!" He is "safe to be around the children?"

[how many children did you say you "parented?"]

"It puts them in a very difficult position when they have to defend
examples of conduct that other countries hear."

All those "75 and 20 Meters" radiotelephone users were
CODE TESTED (or had the equivalent of same).

The CODE TEST does NOT prevent verbal abuse via radio.

Should be "'nuff said".....

Here's another: David Sumner's editorial pieces in QST are done
by David Sumner. James Miccolis has not been invited to become
any "guest commentator" or "moral guardian" of U.S. amateur radio.
But, he has set himself out as the same sort of "moral guardian"
and "giver of ethos" as if he was "respresentative" of over
700 thousand U.S. amateur radio licensees.

Even then he perpetuates the past with parodic perfidy.

wrote:
From: on Mon 27 Jun 2005 03:19

Hollingsworth is NOT in the FCC "Key People," "Division Chiefs,"
or "Regional Director" listings at the FCC of their Enforcement
Bureau. One has to go deeper into the Spectral office of the
Enforcement Bureau where Hollingsworth is listed as second from
bottom on that office's "key people" listing...as one of two who
are "Special Counsel."

And this has what to do with his impact on Amateur Radio?

At least he's ON a "list, Lennie...

You're not even an "also ran..."

It is true that nowhere in Title 47 C.F.R. are the words "hobby"
or "ham radio" given. On the other hand, Part 97 rather
specifically defines amateur radio as an activity done for a
NON-pecuniary reason. That doesn't even mention "money" though
it is obvious that it means that amateur radio CANNOT accept
money for doing any communications service for others.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..............THAT'S it!

No Money = Doesn't Count.

Alllllllllllllllll riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighty then!

Amateur radio in the USA is forbidden by law to engage in
broadcasting. Amateur radio in the USA is forbidden by law to
be a public communications common carrier...that is, specifically
as a provider of radio communications services. Amateur radio
regulations even state that amateur communications themselves
are to be of a trivial nature and amateurs themselves are
supposed to avail themselves of commercial communications
services for non-trivial communications.

However the FCC ALSO says that Amateur Radio is a pool of
radio operators for EMERGENCY communications, and both history and
current events bears out that Amateur Radio is/was/and shall continue
for the foreseeable future to be the resource of choice for numerous
disaster relief providers and agencies, public and private.

Amateur radio in the USA is NOT a "national service."

Sure it is.

All throughout Title 47 C.F.R. the word "service" is a regulatory
term denoting a type and kind of radio activity being regulated.

Keep repeating that to yourself over and over, Lennie.

Is the Citizens Band Radio SERVICE a "national service?" No.

Sure it is.

Is the Amateur Radio Service a "national service?" No.

Sure it is.

There's a difference between words used "de jure" (by law as
stated) and "de facto" (what it really is in practice).

Neither of THOSE terms show up in Part 97 either!

Amateur radio is a HOBBY...a recreational pursuit done for personal
pleasure, federally regulated only because of the physical nature
of radio wave propagation and possible interference with other
radio users. DE FACTO a HOBBY.

Wrong.

Amateur Radio is a radio service that may be USED as a hobby, and
virtually is.

However there are a great many things in this Nation of ours that
it's citizens do for their own personal gratification (ie: hobby) that
I seriously doubt anyone would consider a "hobby"...EMS, or Emergency
Medical Services, for example. Depending on whose numbers you like
better, anywhere from 55% to 75% of EMS is provided by volunteers.

Ditto fire suppression...(yes, even in Southern California,
Lennie...)

By YOUR rationalization, Lennie, we can call EMS and fire
suppression "hobbies".

How assinine would THAT be...?!?!

"...I know that when a natural disaster hits, they're [cell towers]
the first ones to go down. And the few that are remaining are jammed
and you can't get access."

Hollingsworth is "playing to his audience" (to use a show business
phrase).

No.

It's documented fact.

Physically, the cellular telephone services, an adjunct to the
wired telephone infrastructure, does NOT "go down" either "first"
or last.

No...In Southern Florida this most recent past hurricaine season,
many of the towers WENT DOWN...Not meaning "for maintenance" or due to
"overload"...They were toppled.

TELEPHONE communications is "jammed" only by too many
panic-stricken subscribers trying to use it simultaneously at the
onset of some emergency.

That too. But inoperative is inoperative.

" The people who are going to be taking care
of the real communications are sitting right here in this room. It's
the Amateur Radio service. And in the first few days, or the first few
hours of these multi-jurisdictional incidents, it's the amateurs who
keep things going."

In light of recent REAL EMERGENCIES, REAL HISTORY has shown
that the commercial services HAVE CONTINUED TO WORK despite
SOME of their facilities being "downed."

And some have not...In some cases for WEEKS.

In those cases, Amateur Radio was asked to and did fill those
gaps.

Facilities are NOT
RESTRICTED to JUST telephones, wired and/or cellular. There
are, in this nation, literally, hundreds of thousands of OTHER
radios which can, and have, been used for two-way communications.

"We" know that...because "we" are asked to man those other
facilities...Hospitals, fire stations, Red Cross offices.

That is NOT counting CB or the approximately 100 million
cellular telephone radio handsets.

CB is useless as anything other than an ancilliary function, and
cellphones have too many of their own inadequacies to "go the
distance".

Proven.

Eleven and a half years ago...(SNIP)

Lennie, yuo keep citing ONE instance where there was no MAJOR
implementation of Amateur Radio as an interim communications resource.

One example in over 90 years of history does NOT a trend make.

Hollingsworth is a special counsel to the Enforcement Bureau's
Spectral enforcers. He should KNOW BETTER than to perpetuate
such myths as he stated. But, Hollingsworth does NOT
specifically speak FOR amateur radio. He is little more than
a "radio cop in a suit."

He did not lie.

He did NOT "perpetuate such myths"...

You are welcome to try and refute his comments, Lennie, but
there's tons of historical (and yes CURRENT historical) evidence to
support eacn and every word.

"There was a big newspaper chain that had a reporter with headphones on
listening to the hurricane emergency net. That made us nervous. The
last thing we wanted was some bad publicity for the Amateur Radio
service anywhere."

"Our people that go to these ITU meetings will tell us that it's
often a personal embarassment to them when these countries play back
tapes of what they hear on 75 and 20 Meters in the American amateur
bands."

On the American 'phone subbands. Not CW/data subbands...

Oh, my, another MYTH. Simon Pure morseman "does not swear with
morse code!" He is "safe to be around the children?"

[how many children did you say you "parented?"]

What myth?

Unfortunatley there ARE some very ill-mouthed persons just as Jim
described.

And in over 30+ years as an Amateur, mos tof which was HF-CW, I
have never "heard" a profanity...

I can't say that of phone operations.

If you had any practical experience, Lennie, you'd know.

Heck, if you even tuneded that antiquated R-70 down band a bit
you'd know better...

"It puts them in a very difficult position when they have to defend
examples of conduct that other countries hear."

All those "75 and 20 Meters" radiotelephone users were
CODE TESTED (or had the equivalent of same).

The CODE TEST does NOT prevent verbal abuse via radio.

WHO said it did?

However it DOES appear as though code USE at least minimizes if
not prevents "verbal" abuse...Whether it's just a better class of
people or the "effort" one has to put into it makes it less attractive
to potential abusers.

Should be "'nuff said".....

Here's another: David Sumner's editorial pieces in QST are done
by David Sumner. James Miccolis has not been invited to become
any "guest commentator" or "moral guardian" of U.S. amateur radio.
But, he has set himself out as the same sort of "moral guardian"
and "giver of ethos" as if he was "respresentative" of over
700 thousand U.S. amateur radio licensees.

Even then he perpetuates the past with parodic perfidy.

Can we add that certain ex-radio technician and his Army days to
that?

Seems he has HIS weaknesses about wanting to be the "moral
guardian" of a radio service that he haas NO licensure or vested
interest in...



Steve, K4YZ

From: K4YZ on Jun 28, 7:05
am


Is the Citizens Band Radio SERVICE a "national service?" No.

Sure it is.

Is the Amateur Radio Service a "national service?" No.

Sure it is.

Waaaa, waaaa, liddle Stebie stamps his feet and yells "is too!
is too!" :-)



"We" know that...because "we" are asked to man those other
facilities...Hospitals, fire stations, Red Cross offices.

Heroes to a man, Medal of Honor winners, Nobel Laureates
and forever in the hearts of their countrymen.....yawwwwn.

"The patriotic bunting is up, the bunting is waving...the
bunting is down...you have twenty seconds..."


One example in over 90 years of history does NOT a trend make.

Jimmie Grasshopper always says that.


Unfortunatley there ARE some very ill-mouthed persons just as Jim
described.

And in over 30+ years as an Amateur, mos tof which was HF-CW, I
have never "heard" a profanity...

"Dyslexics of the world, UNTIE!" :-)

"Mos Tof?" Is that a sister planet to "Mos Eisely" in "Star Wars?"

"Unfortunatley" poor Stebie is mad as hell again and can't take
his spelling again...


Heck, if you even tuneded that antiquated R-70 down band a bit
you'd know better...

Samantha needs to cast a "spell" on Stebie...

Should be easy, everyone else wrinkling their nose when Stebie
writes...



However it DOES appear as though code USE at least minimizes if
not prevents "verbal" abuse...Whether it's just a better class of
people or the "effort" one has to put into it makes it less attractive
to potential abusers.

Morse code is safe for CHILDREN?

Yes. All morsemen can behave as children safely...in here.

And some do! :-)

A jolly Foxtrot Uniform to you, too, hero of "seven hostile
actions!"

Temper fry.

Amateur radio in the USA is forbidden by law to engage in
broadcasting. Amateur radio in the USA is forbidden by law to
be a public communications common carrier...that is, specifically
as a provider of radio communications services. Amateur radio
regulations even state that amateur communications themselves
are to be of a trivial nature and amateurs themselves are
supposed to avail themselves of commercial communications
services for non-trivial communications.

This rule exists more to protect our bands from being taken over
by commercial interests. Can you imagine getting sued for
QRM?



Physically, the cellular telephone services, an adjunct to the
wired telephone infrastructure, does NOT "go down" either "first"
or last. TELEPHONE communications is "jammed" only by too many
panic-stricken subscribers trying to use it simultaneously at the
onset of some emergency. The TELEPHONE infrastructure would not
have survived as a communications service provider if "all"
subscribers were free to use it simultaneously.

It takes a regional disaster to make that happen, like
earthquakes. Stuff like car accidents is easily taken care
of with cell phones. But a regional disaster may take
out the phone system physically or it gets overloaded.
And many times hams handle the lower priority "health and
welfare" traffic to free up the police and fire comms
for the more important stuff.


" The people who are going to be taking care
of the real communications are sitting right here in this room. It's
the Amateur Radio service. And in the first few days, or the first few
hours of these multi-jurisdictional incidents, it's the amateurs who
keep things going."


In light of recent REAL EMERGENCIES, REAL HISTORY has shown
that the commercial services HAVE CONTINUED TO WORK despite
SOME of their facilities being "downed." Facilities are NOT
RESTRICTED to JUST telephones, wired and/or cellular. There
are, in this nation, literally, hundreds of thousands of OTHER
radios which can, and have, been used for two-way communications.
That is NOT counting CB or the approximately 100 million
cellular telephone radio handsets.

CBs are sometimes useful, but cell phones without the phone
system are useless. They can only talk to a tower, not to
other cell phones. (Not sure of those "walkie talkie" feature
some cell providers supply, but that might require the cell
tower to function as a repeater).




"It puts them in a very difficult position when they have to defend
examples of conduct that other countries hear."

THose third world dictators don't like our ability to
complain about our government.... :-)