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F-16 Noise Complaint in Arizona
From the Arizona Republic online:
Quote: A wake-up call from Luke's jets Jun. 23, 2005 12:00 AM "Question of the day for Luke Air Force Base: Whom do we thank for the morning air show? Last Wednesday, at precisely 9:11 a.m., a tight formation of four F-16 jets made a low pass over Arrowhead Mall, continuing west over Bell Road at approximately 500 feet. Imagine our good fortune! Do the Tom Cruise-wannabes feel we need this wake-up call, or were they trying to impress the cashiers at Mervyns' early-bird special? Any response would be appreciated." ************************************************** ********* The reply is classic, and a testament to the professionalism and heroism of the folks in the armed services. The response: Quote: Regarding "A wake-up call from Luke's jets" (Letters, Thursday): On June 15, at precisely 9:12 a.m., a perfectly timed four-ship of F-16s from the 63rd Fighter Squadron at Luke Air Force Base flew over the grave of Capt Jeremy Fresques. Capt. Fresques was an Air Force officer who was previously stationed at Luke Air Force Base and was killed in Iraq on May 30, Memorial Day. At 9 a.m. on June 15, his family and friends gathered at Sunland Memorial Park in Sun City to mourn the loss of a husband, son and friend. Based on the letter writer's recount of the flyby, and because of the jet noise, I'm sure you didn't hear the 21-gun salute, the playing of taps, or my words to the widow and parents of Capt. Fresques as I gave them their son's flag on behalf of the president of the United States and all those veterans and servicemen and women who understand the sacrifices they have endured. A four-ship flyby is a display of respect the Air Force pays to those who give their lives in defense of freedom. We are professional aviators and take our jobs seriously, and on June 15 what the letter writer witnessed was four officers lining up to pay their ultimate respects. The letter writer asks, "Whom do we thank for the morning air show?" The 56th Fighter Wing will call for you, and forward your thanks to the widow and parents of Capt. Fresques, and thank them for you, for it was in their honor that my pilots flew the most honorable formation of their lives. Lt. Col. Scott Pleus CO 63rd Fighter Squadron Luke Air Force Base |
An interesting story, indeed, but this isn't rec.aviation.military
"K4YZ" wrote in message ups.com... From the Arizona Republic online: Quote: A wake-up call from Luke's jets |
K4YZ wrote:
From the Arizona Republic online: Quote: A wake-up call from Luke's jets Jun. 23, 2005 12:00 AM "Question of the day for Luke Air Force Base: Whom do we thank for the morning air show? Last Wednesday, at precisely 9:11 a.m., a tight formation of four F-16 jets made a low pass over Arrowhead Mall, continuing west over Bell Road at approximately 500 feet. Imagine our good fortune! Do the Tom Cruise-wannabes feel we need this wake-up call, or were they trying to impress the cashiers at Mervyns' early-bird special? Any response would be appreciated." ************************************************** ********* The reply is classic, and a testament to the professionalism and heroism of the folks in the armed services. The response: Quote: Regarding "A wake-up call from Luke's jets" (Letters, Thursday): On June 15, at precisely 9:12 a.m., a perfectly timed four-ship of F-16s from the 63rd Fighter Squadron at Luke Air Force Base flew over the grave of Capt Jeremy Fresques. Capt. Fresques was an Air Force officer who was previously stationed at Luke Air Force Base and was killed in Iraq on May 30, Memorial Day. At 9 a.m. on June 15, his family and friends gathered at Sunland Memorial Park in Sun City to mourn the loss of a husband, son and friend. Based on the letter writer's recount of the flyby, and because of the jet noise, I'm sure you didn't hear the 21-gun salute, the playing of taps, or my words to the widow and parents of Capt. Fresques as I gave them their son's flag on behalf of the president of the United States and all those veterans and servicemen and women who understand the sacrifices they have endured. A four-ship flyby is a display of respect the Air Force pays to those who give their lives in defense of freedom. We are professional aviators and take our jobs seriously, and on June 15 what the letter writer witnessed was four officers lining up to pay their ultimate respects. The letter writer asks, "Whom do we thank for the morning air show?" The 56th Fighter Wing will call for you, and forward your thanks to the widow and parents of Capt. Fresques, and thank them for you, for it was in their honor that my pilots flew the most honorable formation of their lives. On a somewhat related note, some years ago I was riding my motorcycle along an abandoned railway near Orviston PA. The line was once used to ferry coal from the coal fields near Snoe Shoe PA, and was abandoned sometime in the 50's as the WWII demand for coal had obviously eased. Lots of tunnels, and a lot of bridges. It makes for a great ride in the mountains. The only part that is a little "interesting" is that crossing the bridges demands control and concentration, as you are riding on the railroad ties with no guardrails, and some of the drops are over 100 feet to the river below. No place for sissies. I was just coming out of a tunnel that had about 50 feet of open space before starting across one of those bridges. When along comes a jet, full afterburner, supersonic, and not too far above my head. On his tail was another, doing the same. The area is as much wilderness as you can get in PA, so the AF sometimes flew excercises there. It was a life flashing before my eyes moment, and I damm near ****ed myself before I figured out what happened. I hopped off the bike, and shook for a couple minutes to wear off the adrenaline. Thank whoever that I was not on the bridge. If that were the case, I would almost certainly *not* be here to annoy Len! Even so, I'll thank all the pilots. I consider it a privelige to see the warbirds - anytime. - Mike KB3EIA - |
"Michael Coslo" wrote When along comes a jet, full afterburner, supersonic, and not too far above my head. On his tail was another, doing the same. The area is as much wilderness as you can get in PA, so the AF sometimes flew excercises there. Skipper of one of the ships I served in was Capt. Deke "Guinea One" Bordone who came up through the "Top Gun" F4 (Tomcat) environment. While he'd been promoted out of being an active driver (O6), he still had a lot of connections in the carrier air wings. Often when we were operating in support a carrier battle group, he'd call down to radio central and ask us to bring up "Land/Launch" Nestor circuit and patch it to the bridge wing. (Land/Launch is the "air control" channel for carrier operations.) That was everyones signal to get out on the main deck and put your fingers in your ears and look to the sky, because he'd then coordinate fake strafing/bombing runs on his own ship. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
K=D8HB wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote Skipper of one of the ships I served in was Capt. Deke "Guinea One" Bordo= ne who came up through the "Top Gun" F4 (Tomcat) environment. With apologies beforehand for doing a Foghorn Lenhorn level nit pick here but F4s are Phantoms and F-14s are the Tomcats. I've watched two "missing man" formation flybys. They both definitely made their intended statements. =20 73, de Hans, K0HB w3rv |
wrote With apologies beforehand for doing a Foghorn Lenhorn level nit pick here but F4s are Phantoms and F-14s are the Tomcats. Yer abserluterly correct, OT! But I have an excuse --- I'm a blackshoe, not a brownshoe. In any case, "Guinea One" was an F4 driver. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
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"Dave Heil" wrote Your couple of lines don't even begin to resemble Foghorn. A couple of lines is a correction. Four or five lengthy paragraphs on the workings of either aircraft would be windy pontification. You'd also need to include a statement to the effect that neither aircraft is equipped with a J38. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
KØHB wrote:
"Dave Heil" wrote Your couple of lines don't even begin to resemble Foghorn. A couple of lines is a correction. Four or five lengthy paragraphs on the workings of either aircraft would be windy pontification. You'd also need to include a statement to the effect that neither aircraft is equipped with a J38. ....and that, "nothing in this post has anything to do with the amateur radio HOBBY and whether all who attempt entry need jump through arbitrary hoops in order to enter the Archaic Telegraphic Service." Dave K8MN |
W2DNE wrote: An interesting story, indeed, but this isn't rec.aviation.military Nope, it's not. But a fair share of us on BOTH sides of the issues ARE Veterans and have stakes in such issues. 73 Steve, K4YZ |
K4YZ wrote: From the Arizona Republic online: Quote: A wake-up call from Luke's jets With even more detail: http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/wakeup.asp 73 de Jim, N2EY "....that's not 'noise' - that's the sound of freedom...." |
K=D8HB wrote:
wrote With apologies beforehand for doing a Foghorn Lenhorn level nit pick here but F4s are Phantoms and F-14s are the Tomcats. Yer abserluterly correct, OT! But I have an excuse --- I'm a blackshoe, = not a brownshoe. Don't sweat it, fact is that brownshoes would as useful as tits on a bull any farther than 500 miles east of Atlantic City if their wasn't for the blackshoes. In any case, "Guinea One" was an F4 driver. Your skippper flew the best of the best by my measure. Hookup/thumbs up. First ready. Standby. Second Ready. Salute. Launch. Duck! WHOOSH! 60 seconds later he's seven miles up and looking for a MIG to gnaw on. In 1958. Any number of sons have flown their father's F4s. If the Pentagon hadn't finally retired the last operational F4G "Wild Weasels" in 1996 some hotshot kids would prolly be kicking their grandpappy's fine rides around in the skies over Afghanistan and Iraq right now. A half century from now, even a century from now the F4, the B-52 and the DC-3/C-47/R4D will be the enduring legends they earned. Guinea One has untouchable bragging rights. The rest are wannabes. 73, de Hans, K0HB w3rv |
Dave Heil wrote:
Your couple of lines don't even begin to resemble Foghorn. A couple of lines is a correction. Four or five lengthy paragraphs on the workings of either aircraft would be windy pontification. Don't give up on him yet Dave. He's obviously been slowing down of late and the thread is only a day old, he'll catch up with it eventually and do one of his usual goofy dumps. Dave K8MN w3rv |
K4YZ wrote: From the Arizona Republic online: Quote: A wake-up call from Luke's jets Jun. 23, 2005 12:00 AM "Question of the day for Luke Air Force Base: Whom do we thank for the morning air show? Last Wednesday, at precisely 9:11 a.m., a tight formation of four F-16 jets made a low pass over Arrowhead Mall, continuing west over Bell Road at approximately 500 feet. Imagine our good fortune! Do the Tom Cruise-wannabes feel we need this wake-up call, or were they trying to impress the cashiers at Mervyns' early-bird special? Any response would be appreciated." Off topic having nothing to do the ARS or subject RRAP ************************************************** ********* The reply is classic, and a testament to the professionalism and heroism of the folks in the armed services. The response: Quote: Regarding "A wake-up call from Luke's jets" (Letters, Thursday): On June 15, at precisely 9:12 a.m., a perfectly timed four-ship of F-16s from the 63rd Fighter Squadron at Luke Air Force Base flew over the grave of Capt Jeremy Fresques. Capt. Fresques was an Air Force officer who was previously stationed at Luke Air Force Base and was killed in Iraq on May 30, Memorial Day. At 9 a.m. on June 15, his family and friends gathered at Sunland Memorial Park in Sun City to mourn the loss of a husband, son and friend. Based on the letter writer's recount of the flyby, and because of the jet noise, I'm sure you didn't hear the 21-gun salute, the playing of taps, or my words to the widow and parents of Capt. Fresques as I gave them their son's flag on behalf of the president of the United States and all those veterans and servicemen and women who understand the sacrifices they have endured. A four-ship flyby is a display of respect the Air Force pays to those who give their lives in defense of freedom. We are professional aviators and take our jobs seriously, and on June 15 what the letter writer witnessed was four officers lining up to pay their ultimate respects. The letter writer asks, "Whom do we thank for the morning air show?" The 56th Fighter Wing will call for you, and forward your thanks to the widow and parents of Capt. Fresques, and thank them for you, for it was in their honor that my pilots flew the most honorable formation of their lives. Lt. Col. Scott Pleus CO 63rd Fighter Squadron Luke Air Force Base |
an_old_friend wrote: Off topic having nothing to do the ARS or subject RRAP Take two aspirin and call someone who cares, Markie. Steve, K4YZ |
but it does prove you were liying when you said everyone was welcome to comment K4YZ wrote: an_old_friend wrote: Off topic having nothing to do the ARS or subject RRAP Take two aspirin and call someone who cares, Markie. stop breaking the law btw Steve, K4YZ |
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:59:36 GMT, KØHB wrote:
That was everyones signal to get out on the main deck and put your fingers in your ears and look to the sky, because he'd then coordinate fake strafing/bombing runs on his own ship. When I was working at March AFB in the early 60s (the civilian component of the 22nd SAC Communications Squadron) the 3 am B-52 launches would fly over my apartment at 500 feet or so before rising into "the wild blue yonder". No need to own an alarm clock in those days. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
From: K0HB on Jul 14, 12:11 am
"Dave Heil" wrote Your couple of lines don't even begin to resemble Foghorn. A couple of lines is a correction. Four or five lengthy paragraphs on the workings of either aircraft would be windy pontification. You'd also need to include a statement to the effect that neither aircraft is equipped with a J38. Ahem, "J-38" was dropped as a nomenclature in the military yarns and yarns ago. [try "KY-nnn" and I don't mean jelly... :-) ] Are they equipped for ANY kind of morse code radio reception? NO. The military stopped using "BFOs" or equivalent in the 225-400 MHz military band transceivers years and years ago. You can check that out with the "military veterans" in here, such as Miccolis, Coslo, and Kelly. :-) [ESPECIALLY Kelly...] Okay, let us see a show of hands...shall we load Heil on an F-16 hardpoint and drop him on Guinea-Bisseau as a "radio CARE consultant" for that fourth-world nation? :-) We can tape on a wind-up key a la the South African company's wind-up radio...Ginnea-Bisseauians can "wind him up" and he can establish SS to spice up the cashew nut production. Meanwhile, we can all sit back and watch the Mighty Macho Murine Morseman, Stebie, on his ever-vigilant Mouth-Off For Freedom! Must be a real wanna-be case there...his fast-attack CAP patrol plane can't cruise faster than the NASCARs at Daytona. Maybe he needs a brain bucket with fancy legends painted all over it? [goes well with that pudgy poopy suit in the QRZ photo] Ho hum, another day, some dendrites have been kept from growing and the steady decline of U.S. ham radio licensees keeps on truckin'. bit bit |
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an_old_friend wrote: but it does prove you were liying when you said everyone was welcome to comment Oh? This is twice you've made comment here. Who stopped you? K4YZ wrote: an_old_friend wrote: Off topic having nothing to do the ARS or subject RRAP Take two aspirin and call someone who cares, Markie. stop breaking the law btw And that law would be...?!?! (And please don't tell me that telling you to take an over-the-counter drug was "prescribing"...YOU would be lying...) Steve, K4YZ |
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Phil Kane wrote: On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:59:36 GMT, K=D8HB wrote: That was everyones signal to get out on the main deck and put your finge= rs in your ears and look to the sky, because he'd then coordinate fake strafing/bombing runs on his own ship. When I was working at March AFB in the early 60s (the civilian component of the 22nd SAC Communications Squadron) the 3 am B-52 launches would fly over my apartment at 500 feet or so before rising into "the wild blue yonder". No need to own an alarm clock in those days. AGREED. The things have to be the loudest most obnoxious aircraft ever built. I had to work on a technical paper for a few days at what was originally an LTV plant in Ft. Worth. I forget who operated it then, maybe General Dynamics which was building F-16s then. My contact recommended a motel so I booked it and signed in when I got to Ft. Worth late on night. I was in bed not more than ten minutes after I landed in the room. Maybe a couple hours later I was jolted awake by the most gawdawful noise I'd ever heard, I thought there was an explosion and headed for the door. Then came another one, then another. It finally dawned on me that the racket was aircraft takeoffs and tried to get back to sleep. Nah, not that night. Come morning I was just starting to shave when another bunch took off. I couldn't see my puss because the mirror was bouncing all over the wall. Final straw. The motel was directly off the end of whatever B-52 base it was which was alongside the plant. Found another motel, logged outta that dump, moved, went to the plant and thanked the contact profusely for recommendation. Even worse I also bit on his recommendation for a steakhouse figuring that hey, this is Texas, the home of the ultimate steaks. Worst steak I ever ran into. If I had enough of them I coulda pieced together a high-pressure boiler out of the things. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane w3rv |
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K4YZ wrote: an_old_friend wrote: but it does prove you were liying when you said everyone was welcome to comment Oh? This is twice you've made comment here. Who stopped you? another stevie lie never said stopped I said you lied when you said you welcome coment from aynone that was and reamins a lie K4YZ wrote: an_old_friend wrote: Off topic having nothing to do the ARS or subject RRAP Take two aspirin and call someone who cares, Markie. stop breaking the law btw And that law would be...?!?! laws against internet stalking (And please don't tell me that telling you to take an over-the-counter drug was "prescribing"...YOU would be lying...) gigo Steve, K4YZ |
K4YZ wrote:
wrote: K4YZ wrote: From the Arizona Republic online: Quote: A wake-up call from Luke's jets With even more detail: http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/wakeup.asp 73 de Jim, N2EY "....that's not 'noise' - that's the sound of freedom...." (originally heard at NAS Willow Grove during an air show) Gotta give the guy who wrote the initial letter credit for being "stand-up" and immeidately issuing an unconditional apology for his comments. Yup. He simply didn't know. Now he does. Too bad some in this forum can't find the same strength of character. Yup! I find the Snopes website to be invaluable when confronted with similar stories. Some are demonstrated urban legends or even outright fabrications, while others are shown to be even more impressive than the original story indicates. www.snopes.com I wonder if they have anything on the Morse Code vs. text messaging contest? One thing I find somewhat amusing are those folks who buy houses near airports, highways, etc., and then complain about the noise. It would be different if the house were there first but in most cases the opposite is true. Newer civilian aircraft are quieter than older models of similar size, too. -- I recall fondly a stunt I saw years ago at Moffett AFB in California during a show there. The AF Thunderbirds were the final act, and did a number of impressive formations. Some were fast, some dramatic and others more technical (they showed the pilots' skills and the aircraft capabilities more than top speed or fancy maneuvering). One of the latter was the slow diamond roll formation. Four F-16s in diamond formation came over the runway low and slow, (airspeed less than 200) and the entire formation did a slow roll. The announcer explained the move and what to watch for as they did it. Crowd watched like a bunch of kittens following a bird, following the formation from left to right over the runway. What the announcer didn't point out to the crowd was that the Tbirds had *five* planes in the air. As the diamond formation finished their roll and the spectators were almost all looking to the right, the fifth plane came over the crowd from the right, at just under supersonic speed. Hilarity ensued. A few of us knew to "always watch your six" and saw it coming. But we didn't spoil the fun. I dunno if anybody does that move anymore but it sure was cool. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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Cmd Buzz Corey wrote: wrote: The motel was directly off the end of whatever B-52 base it was which was alongside the plant. Carswell, There ya go, tnx. and if you think the B-52s were loud you should have been there when the B-36s were. Found this: "The engines and propellers produced an unforgettable throbbing sound when the B-36 flew overhead. A friend of mine remembers the sound from his boyhood as a "captivating drone. The noise went down to your heels, it was so resonant. It just stopped you in your tracks. You looked up into the sky to try to find this thing, and it was just a tiny cross, it was so high." Others remember that it rattled windows on the ground from 40,000 feet." w3rv |
Cmd Buzz Corey wrote: wrote: The motel was directly off the end of whatever B-52 base it was which was alongside the plant. Carswell, Tnx. and if you think the B-52s were loud you should have been there when the B-36s were. Found this: "The engines and propellers produced an unforgettable throbbing sound when the B-36 flew overhead. A friend of mine remembers the sound from his boyhood as a "captivating drone. The noise went down to your heels, it was so resonant. It just stopped you in your tracks. You looked up into the sky to try to find this thing, and it was just a tiny cross, it was so high." Others remember that it rattled windows on the ground from 40,000 feet." w3rv |
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On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:44:01 -0400, Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:
Thats about how high they would be when they came over our house some 200 miles west of Ft. Worth and the windows would rattle. It was an unmistakeable sound. Six a'turnin' and four a'burnin..... A good friend of mine who died too young was an engine mechanic on the '36 in the 50s, which prepared him for his full-time hobby of rebuilding the two Jaguar engines that he had - one was in his wife's "Saloon Car" and the other one was up on the hoist. Then they would switch. How many folks do YOU know who have a chain hoist and a full engine rebuilding shop in their 2-car garage? No wonder I could never interest him in ham radio..... -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
Phil Kane wrote:
On 15 Jul 2005 03:14:21 -0700, wrote: I recall fondly a stunt I saw years ago at Moffett AFB in California during a show there. Moffitt (note spelling - everyone gets it wrong) Well, not *everyone*. See: http://www.moffettfieldmuseum.org/index.html was never an Air Force Base. Yep, I was mistaken about that. It was used by the AAF during WW2, but that was before the Air Force existed as a separate branch of the US military. In fact the Navy turned the place over to the Army, then got it back. It was a Naval Air Station (NAS Moffitt Field) until it was recommissioned as a NASA facility (Moffitt Field Federal Airport, IIRC) NASA's Ames Research Center and Dryden Flight Test Facility and others are there and the Navy is gone with the exception of special flights. NASA still has their big wind tunned there. An engineering school classmate of mine worked for them for 30 years, retired, and came back as a contract employee for another 20......our taxpayers' money at work. Yup. At the south end of the field was a large building which we affectionateley dubbed "The Blue Cube". It was offically named Onizuka Air Force Base after the Challenger disaster. For a long time it was the home of the National Reconnaissance Office (What office? What cube? What Building?) but they moved the operation elsewhere and caused a big layoff at Lockheed which ran it. I did read/hear that OAFB was decommissioned recently. -- Thanks for the info, Phil. The above website has a lot of history on it. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:
wrote: Found this: "The engines and propellers produced an unforgettable throbbing sound when the B-36 flew overhead. A friend of mine remembers the sound from his boyhood as a "captivating drone. The noise went down to your heels, it was so resonant. It just stopped you in your tracks. You looked up into the sky to try to find this thing, and it was just a tiny cross, it was so high." Others remember that it rattled windows on the ground from 40,000 feet." w3rv Thats about how high they would be when they came over our house some 200 miles west of Ft. Worth and the windows would rattle. It was an unmistakeable sound. One of the unique features of the B-36 is it's geared-down props, i.e., the props turn much slower than it's six big Wasps. The rotational speed reduction was necessary because given the 19 foot diameter prop disk the tips of the blades would go supersonic and all hell would break if loose if they turned at engine RPMs. I don't know of any other reciprocating engine powered fixed-wing military A/C which had geared-down props like the B-36 had. Seems reasonable to me to wonder if the B-36 also churned out an acoustic signature which was also quite unique in that from the ground they apparently sounded something like six "down to your heels" thumping overpowered military helicopters which I'm sure we've all heard in our neighborhoods. The little speck in the sky does thumps galore on the ground from miles away. With it's six big, unusually slow-turning props the B-36 it might very well be that it's acoustics were helicopter-like. Except a whole lot more so. Acoustics is radio in a different medium and frequency range. The results of resonance apply to both. The B-36 probably had an acoustic SWR of 1:1 at ground level. I never saw a B-36 in flight but I was there when Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey airframe No. 8 arrived in the pattern over Brandywine airport in West Chester PA and flew it's last flight before being turned over to the American Helicopter Museum which is on the airport property. The V-22 also has monster slow-turning props and can fly like a fixed-wing A/C at speeds not too disimilar from B-36 speeds. I'm here to tell you the thing damned near drove all of us who were there that day thru the tarmac during it's high-speed demo passes. The Apache did not. w3rv |
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