John Smith wrote:
Here the NCI offers proof and spells it out, just in case these old key
tappers are in danger of pulling some wool over your eyes...

http://www.nocode.org/articles/filter.html

As some have noted in the past, "There are liars, and there are DAMN LIARS!"

John

When Hans proposed that in the brave new world of a No-Code HF License,
that one should have to take a Morse Code Test to use CW, Jim/N2EY said
that a Morse Code Test would be a -barrier- to Morse Code use. Hi!
It's always been a barrier.

John Smith wrote:

Nice attempt at "spin doctoring" for the weak minded...
It is like fishing, you bait your hook, toss it in the water and see what
bites...



Nice try at 'spin doctoring' yourself, but it doesn't fly.

Minor correction "John Smith". If the USA decided not to drop CW, it
would NOT be alone in world. Russia and her ex Soviet Block nations have
all decided to keep CW.

Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Dave:

Well, there is debate and argument for good and reason, and then there is
not...

Then there is religious devotion to a test which serves only a select
few...

It would be interesting if the powers that be were to decide in keeping
CW--and then explain why they alone in the world community made that
decision, frankly, I would be happy not to have that task...

There are plentiful examples of insanity in this world... that old book
which bears the title something like "The Emperor Wore No Clothes" is as
meaningful today as the day it was written...

John

"Dave Heil" wrote in message
nk.net...
John Smith wrote:
N2EY:

Nice attempt at "spin doctoring" for the weak minded...
It is like fishing, you bait your hook, toss it in the water and see
what
bites...

John

At least that's how you do it, "John".

Dave K8MN

On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 09:36:54 -0700, N2EY wrote:


John Smith wrote:

Here the NCI offers proof and spells it out, just in case these old key
tappers are in danger of pulling some wool over your eyes...

http://www.nocode.org/articles/filter.html

As some have noted in the past, "There are liars, and there are DAMN
LIARS!"


Omission of relevant facts can be a form of lying.

Here's the whole story:

I read that bit of W5YI propaganda, and also the original articles in
"200 Meters And Down" and the QSTs of the time.

(have you done so?)

The referenced article does not give all the relevant facts.

For one thing, the article claims that "higher speed" code testing has
been
used to "limit the number of hams since the very beginning of ham
licensing".
The fact is that all US hams were licensed in the US by 1912, 24 years
before the 1936 happenings cited. The code test speed after 1919 was 10
wpm, and the 1936 increase to 13 wpm - hardly a quantum leap.

To get a clear picture of what was actually happening, it is important
to
understand what ham radio was like back in those days. After WW1, ham
radio
almost ceased to exist. It was brought back to life by the dedicated
efforts
of a few enthusiasts.

Amateur radio was not even recognized by international treaty until
1927. The
1927 treaty resulted in stricter new rules and much-narrowed bands.

By 1929 there were about 16,000 hams in the US. Almost
all of them were on the 160, 80, 40, and 20 meter bands. A typical ham
transmitter was a self-controlled power oscillator, and a typical ham
receiver
was a three tube regenerative. Sure, more advanced techniques existed,
but few
hams could afford them in thos Great Depression years.

Code skill was important in almost all radio services. 10 wpm was not
considered as anything like professional level - 25 or 30 wpm was more
like it. (This was with semiautomatic keys for sending and manual
typewriters for
highspeed copy).

1929 saw two big changes to ham radio. The treaties signed in 1927 came
into
effect, which cut deeply into the 40 and 20 meter hambands (70% of 40
was lost, and 80% of 20). The treaties also required much cleaner
signals from ham rigs. The Great Depression followed soon afterwards.

But the Depression and the new regs had a surprising effect on ham
radio. The
number of hams took a sharp upturn in the early thirties. By 1935 there
were
over 46,000 hams - almost TRIPLING the number of just five years
earlier! But the turnover in amateur radio was approaching 40% per
year.

This meant that most hams were raw newcomers, with relatively little
technical
knowledge or operating skills. A ham with 5 years on the air was a
veteran, one with 10 years was a grizzled old timer. Problems of
interference and crowding abounded. Complaints from other services
threatened the existence of ham radio.

The problem was that thousands of newcomers were learning just enough
to pass
the tests, assembling simple stations with little understanding of
proper
design, adjustment, or operation, and putting them on the air. Many of
these
newcomers lost interest quickly, particularly when the limitations of
their
knowledge and skills became apparent. The newly formed FCC was
concerned, as
was the ARRL.

The action proposed by the ARRL to the FCC was in two parts: Raise the
code
speed SLIGHTLY, (10 to 12-1/2 wpm) and make the written test more
comprehensive. The changes to the written tests are all but ignored by
the NCI
article.

The goal was NOT to limit the total number of hams, nor to hinder or
deter anyone from getting a license, but to control the flood of
newcomers, and make sure that the new folks had the necessary skills
and knowledge.

Look at the complete picture, and the action of the FCC in 1936 makes
sense.
73 de Jim, N2EY

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Dee:

I think it more reflects the readily availability of manufactured
equipment as compared to equip constructed by ones own hand.

I also think it has to do with an economy which allows one to support such
hobbies, and the abundant free time individuals have to devote to such
hobbies.

I also think it has to do with education and the masses do not find radio
a "dark mystery" anymore, etc, etc...

It has to do with a lot of things... one I don't even consider is a
factor which has helped the popularity of ham radio is CW... indeed, it
has served as a hindrance... only the degree which it has hindered is
left to be argued, in my humble opinion--and shortly we are due to find
out... indeed, without some sort of "shot in the arm" amateur radio would
continue its' course and go the way of the dodo bird...

John


There is no longer any need to keep repeating the false mantras that "ham
radio is dying" and "Morse code stops people from becoming hams" since the
FCC will be eliminating the code test.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee:

We are possibly talking about 300,000 hams in the us, that is NOT a large
number for a good hobby... compare that to millions of bicyclists,
millions of fishermen, millions of bowlers, etc, etc... perhaps skydivers
are near that number, 300,000, but only because many of us are too damn
smart and won't jump out of a plane with a large sized piece of ripstop
nylon attached to us!

How you quote such dismal numbers in amateur radio as if they/it are
something to be proud of does nothing but amaze me! As I have pointed out
before, there are MAGNITUDES more illegal aliens here than hams!

John

On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 18:16:05 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:


"John Smith" wrote in message
news

Here the NCI offers proof and spells it out, just in case these old key
tappers are in danger of pulling some wool over your eyes...

http://www.nocode.org/articles/filter.html

As some have noted in the past, "There are liars, and there are DAMN
LIARS!"

John


It obviously didn't work did it. Not only is the total number of hams far
greater today than then but as a percent of the population we are more
numerous than then. It simply goes to prove that anyone who wanted to be a
ham could.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee:

Those "false mantras" are what the FCC and world woke up to, and believed...

A course in logic should be given before one can use their amateur license!

John

On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:11:41 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Dee:

I think it more reflects the readily availability of manufactured
equipment as compared to equip constructed by ones own hand.

I also think it has to do with an economy which allows one to support such
hobbies, and the abundant free time individuals have to devote to such
hobbies.

I also think it has to do with education and the masses do not find radio
a "dark mystery" anymore, etc, etc...

It has to do with a lot of things... one I don't even consider is a
factor which has helped the popularity of ham radio is CW... indeed, it
has served as a hindrance... only the degree which it has hindered is
left to be argued, in my humble opinion--and shortly we are due to find
out... indeed, without some sort of "shot in the arm" amateur radio would
continue its' course and go the way of the dodo bird...

John


There is no longer any need to keep repeating the false mantras that "ham
radio is dying" and "Morse code stops people from becoming hams" since the
FCC will be eliminating the code test.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"John Smith" wrote in message
news
Dee:

We are possibly talking about 300,000 hams in the us, that is NOT a large
number for a good hobby... compare that to millions of bicyclists,
millions of fishermen, millions of bowlers, etc, etc... perhaps skydivers
are near that number, 300,000, but only because many of us are too damn
smart and won't jump out of a plane with a large sized piece of ripstop
nylon attached to us!


There are over 600,000 hams in the US.

How you quote such dismal numbers in amateur radio as if they/it are
something to be proud of does nothing but amaze me! As I have pointed out
before, there are MAGNITUDES more illegal aliens here than hams!

John


In this day and age, any technical or semi-technical hobby is lucky to have
any members at all.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dan:

What communist counties do is almost always in the interest of the shadow
gov't really running the country. That is supposed to be surprising?

John

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 00:06:36 +0000, Dan/W4NTI wrote:

Minor correction "John Smith". If the USA decided not to drop CW, it
would NOT be alone in world. Russia and her ex Soviet Block nations have
all decided to keep CW.

Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Dave:

Well, there is debate and argument for good and reason, and then there is
not...

Then there is religious devotion to a test which serves only a select
few...

It would be interesting if the powers that be were to decide in keeping
CW--and then explain why they alone in the world community made that
decision, frankly, I would be happy not to have that task...

There are plentiful examples of insanity in this world... that old book
which bears the title something like "The Emperor Wore No Clothes" is as
meaningful today as the day it was written...

John

"Dave Heil" wrote in message
nk.net...
John Smith wrote:
N2EY:

Nice attempt at "spin doctoring" for the weak minded...
It is like fishing, you bait your hook, toss it in the water and see
what
bites...

John

At least that's how you do it, "John".

Dave K8MN

On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 09:36:54 -0700, N2EY wrote:


John Smith wrote:

Here the NCI offers proof and spells it out, just in case these old key
tappers are in danger of pulling some wool over your eyes...

http://www.nocode.org/articles/filter.html

As some have noted in the past, "There are liars, and there are DAMN
LIARS!"


Omission of relevant facts can be a form of lying.

Here's the whole story:

I read that bit of W5YI propaganda, and also the original articles in
"200 Meters And Down" and the QSTs of the time.

(have you done so?)

The referenced article does not give all the relevant facts.

For one thing, the article claims that "higher speed" code testing has
been
used to "limit the number of hams since the very beginning of ham
licensing".
The fact is that all US hams were licensed in the US by 1912, 24 years
before the 1936 happenings cited. The code test speed after 1919 was 10
wpm, and the 1936 increase to 13 wpm - hardly a quantum leap.

To get a clear picture of what was actually happening, it is important
to
understand what ham radio was like back in those days. After WW1, ham
radio
almost ceased to exist. It was brought back to life by the dedicated
efforts
of a few enthusiasts.

Amateur radio was not even recognized by international treaty until
1927. The
1927 treaty resulted in stricter new rules and much-narrowed bands.

By 1929 there were about 16,000 hams in the US. Almost
all of them were on the 160, 80, 40, and 20 meter bands. A typical ham
transmitter was a self-controlled power oscillator, and a typical ham
receiver
was a three tube regenerative. Sure, more advanced techniques existed,
but few
hams could afford them in thos Great Depression years.

Code skill was important in almost all radio services. 10 wpm was not
considered as anything like professional level - 25 or 30 wpm was more
like it. (This was with semiautomatic keys for sending and manual
typewriters for
highspeed copy).

1929 saw two big changes to ham radio. The treaties signed in 1927 came
into
effect, which cut deeply into the 40 and 20 meter hambands (70% of 40
was lost, and 80% of 20). The treaties also required much cleaner
signals from ham rigs. The Great Depression followed soon afterwards.

But the Depression and the new regs had a surprising effect on ham
radio. The
number of hams took a sharp upturn in the early thirties. By 1935 there
were
over 46,000 hams - almost TRIPLING the number of just five years
earlier! But the turnover in amateur radio was approaching 40% per
year.

This meant that most hams were raw newcomers, with relatively little
technical
knowledge or operating skills. A ham with 5 years on the air was a
veteran, one with 10 years was a grizzled old timer. Problems of
interference and crowding abounded. Complaints from other services
threatened the existence of ham radio.

The problem was that thousands of newcomers were learning just enough
to pass
the tests, assembling simple stations with little understanding of
proper
design, adjustment, or operation, and putting them on the air. Many of
these
newcomers lost interest quickly, particularly when the limitations of
their
knowledge and skills became apparent. The newly formed FCC was
concerned, as
was the ARRL.

The action proposed by the ARRL to the FCC was in two parts: Raise the
code
speed SLIGHTLY, (10 to 12-1/2 wpm) and make the written test more
comprehensive. The changes to the written tests are all but ignored by
the NCI
article.

The goal was NOT to limit the total number of hams, nor to hinder or
deter anyone from getting a license, but to control the flood of
newcomers, and make sure that the new folks had the necessary skills
and knowledge.

Look at the complete picture, and the action of the FCC in 1936 makes
sense.
73 de Jim, N2EY

Dee:

I differ with that figure, I think it is inflated about half, this is
VERY apparent when tuning the bands... something is OBVIOUSLY wrong with
that figure. I suspect it is like our "unemployment figure" here in the
USA, that ONLY depicts those who are "drawing" unemployment, not those who
have used up their unemployment, only worked part time and are not
eligible, those who have given up on looking for work, etc...

Those figures are "cooked" and those in the know--KNOW IT!

John

On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:39:25 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:


"John Smith" wrote in message
news
Dee:

We are possibly talking about 300,000 hams in the us, that is NOT a large
number for a good hobby... compare that to millions of bicyclists,
millions of fishermen, millions of bowlers, etc, etc... perhaps skydivers
are near that number, 300,000, but only because many of us are too damn
smart and won't jump out of a plane with a large sized piece of ripstop
nylon attached to us!


There are over 600,000 hams in the US.

How you quote such dismal numbers in amateur radio as if they/it are
something to be proud of does nothing but amaze me! As I have pointed out
before, there are MAGNITUDES more illegal aliens here than hams!

John


In this day and age, any technical or semi-technical hobby is lucky to have
any members at all.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

John Smith wrote:
Dee:

I differ with that figure, I think it is inflated about half, this is
VERY apparent when tuning the bands... something is OBVIOUSLY wrong with
that figure. I suspect it is like our "unemployment figure" here in the
USA, that ONLY depicts those who are "drawing" unemployment, not those who
have used up their unemployment, only worked part time and are not
eligible, those who have given up on looking for work, etc...

Those figures are "cooked" and those in the know--KNOW IT!

John

You purport to be an active radio amateur and you didn't even have a
realistic idea of how many hams there are in the United States? Do you
think the FCC and ARRL are in collusion and they've whipped up some
massive coverup of the number of licensees? Sheesh!

Dave Heil