From: on Aug 20, 5:42 am

Dan/W4NTI wrote:

Even today....well actually for
many years....the 80 meter band is a classic example of wasted space.
Mostly dead air in the "CW" allocations. In particular from
3.5 to 3.6.

I think you meant "3.6 to 3.7"

That may have been 33 years ago while fighting the
commies around the Fulda Gap in Yurp.

Lots of open space from 3.6 to 3.750 if you want to be open
minded on this
subject.

All of 80 meters is open to digital modes. You know, the
modes all those new, young, modern hams are going to use
when Element 1 goes away.

Define "new, young, modern." Did you mean the kind of
electronics typified by all-vacuum-tube, state-of-the-
art, designed by yourself in 1990" new, yound, and
modern?

If there's so much room, then what's the problem making
3500 to 3575 Morse Code only?

What makes you think that a MINORITY has any "right" to
an exclusive radio playground?

40 is another case and it is gonna be real tough to put that
mess straight..
hi.

Not really. The mess is due to the rest of the world wanting
7100-7300 for SWBC. That's going away, even as we speak, and
more and more of the rest of the world is letting their hams
have 7100-7200. Eventually 7000-7300 will be worldwide
exclusive amateur.

Bad "analysis." The "40m issue" has been going on since
1979...for 26 years. The RESOLUTION of it came about in
2003 at WRC-03. 40 meters will be resolved as to who gets
what in 2009...as outlined in the resolutions made in 2003.
That was adequately explained in the WRC-03 REPORT as
written by the U.S. delegation leader and appearing a year
ago on the FCC International Bureau pages.

So what's the problem with 7000-7050 being Morse Code only?

What makes you think that a MINORITY has any "right" to
an exclusive radio playground?

20/15/10 could all use some "CW Trimming" today.

Let's cut to the chase. It's about more room for 'phone and
less for Morse Code and digital modes. Some folks talk big
about "new directions" and "modernization" and "fresh ideas",
but what they really mean is more bandspace for SSB.

...and some folks talk big about "exclusivity for Them,"
"old directions" and "archaic conservatism."

Cutting to the chase, the PCTA insist on EXCLUSIVITY for
their "nobility" as if they were Gods of Radio. They
consider themselves some kind of Elite, a rationalization
for being able to evolve, to cope, to interact with the
rest of the "amateur community."

I still like my suggestion......bottom 25 of ALL HF bands....CW ONLY. No
digital, etc. That way those that want can.

Those that don't.....won't.

The trouble is that it will take an Extra to get down there.

Irrelevant. WT Docket 05-235 is NOT about license classes
or the rank/status/privileges of the "ruling class." :-)

"John Smith" wrote in message

Band allocation should be allocated on long term statistics
generated in
regards to the modes used... (past year or two)

A year or two is "long tern"? HAW, that's a good one!

Do you have a "5-Year Plan" for the Party, Commissar?

(Does this guy know what a sunspot cycle is?)

Does Commisar Miccolis realize that RADIO itself is only 109
years old? Almost "10" in "Sun Years."

Of course, to a 14-year-old, waiting 11 years until 25 seems
like a virtual eternity. It's a mental state, very subjective.

As CW continues its'

"its".

Sister Nun of the Above has a bottomless drawer of rulers.
[she should empty out her drawers...ugh!]

drop, it needs less and less allocations...

Who says CW is dropping?

Tsk, tsk. As in the old saying, "if all you have is a hammer,
everything looks like a nail."

Coders who play in their almost-exclusive radio playground
just can't seem to keep count or recognize the territory.

as
no-coders now enter CW will have to shrink to accommodate the
new users and their modes...

You mean SSB, right? Because there's no Morse-Code-only subbands
on HF-MF in the USA.

Feeling disenchanted, Jimmie? Contact KH2D and seek to open
up "No SSB International." Technically well-done website of
the past, but stuck in its little Guamian territory in the
middle of the Pacific, totally surrounded by water (it was
all wet in thinking).

Coders ALREADY have TOTAL EXCLUSIVITY for OOK CW in 6m, 2m
bands. They can move on up to those bands and "work" ALL
the "CW" they can, undisturbed by the unwashed masses doing
(hack, ptui) Voice or Data. ALL THEIRS! Think of the
glorious possibilities to "advance the state of the art" of
morse code! [first used in 1844, 161 years ago]

You don't like that idea? Awwwww. It is JUST LIKE CODERS
DID for the no-coders and anti-morse heathen many years ago.
BANISH them to "the world above 30 MHz" in a perfect example
of elitism, gross class bigotry. But, you Coders consider
yourself "above" the mundane, better than best, the "extra"
of the radio world, superior to all others through beeping.

Hang onto your "extra" license obtained through morsemanship,
Jimmie. It may be all you'll have in the future to show
your "greatness" in AMATEUR radio.

key not

wrote:

Hang onto your "extra" license obtained through morsemanship,
Jimmie. It may be all you'll have in the future to show
your "greatness" in AMATEUR radio..,..

Amazing how bitter some people can be
when confronted with their indolence....

I don't think that will work any longer. Just listen to the low end of 40
meters. Lots of digital types moving down the band. They probably can't
copy cw, or not much, and giving them the benefit of the doubt "may not"
know they are interfering.

Gentleman's agreement wont work.

Dan/W4NTI

"robert casey" wrote in message
.net...


I still like my suggestion......bottom 25 of ALL HF bands....CW ONLY. No
digital, etc. That way those that want can.


We could and should do this as a gentlemen's' agreement. No
need for FCC micromanagement here.

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

robert casey wrote:

I still like my suggestion......bottom 25 of ALL HF bands....CW ONLY.
No
digital, etc. That way those that want can.


We could and should do this as a gentlemen's' agreement. No
need for FCC micromanagement here.

well in the eyes of those that see CW under attack they do see still
see a need for a coded reservation, and they fear that they will lose
everything out side of it


That's right.

Dan/W4NTI

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

robert casey wrote:

I still like my suggestion......bottom 25 of ALL HF bands....CW ONLY.
No
digital, etc. That way those that want can.


We could and should do this as a gentlemen's' agreement. No
need for FCC micromanagement here.

well in the eyes of those that see CW under attack they do see still
see a need for a coded reservation, and they fear that they will lose
everything out side of it


It seems true that many, if not most, CW fans fear that other modes will
"over-run" them if the ARRL's "plan" for regulation by bandwidth goes
forward in its present form. I have always stated truthfully here that I
would never support any proposal to ban or restrict the use of CW in any
way, shape, or form and that position still stands. I *also* firmly
believe that CW and other modes should NOT be "squeezed out of existence"
or "over-run by Winlink/PactorIII robots" as many fear will happen if the
"plan" adopted by the ARRL BoD in July were to become FCC regulation.

As a candidate for the ARRL Atlantic Division director's position, I have
gone on record publicly (on the QRP-L reflector and on qrz.com and now
here on r.r.a.p) that, had I been on the ARRL BoD in July, I would NOT
have voted for "the plan" because I believe that the fact that virtually
NOBODY seems to like it indicates to me that it's broken and needs to be
fixed if it's to go forward at all.

Bandplans and band usage are complicated issues where the ARRL or anyone
else is highly unlikely to be able to please everyone - the objective
needs to be to work with the different interest groups towards compromises
that allow us to get to something that at least a significant majority can
accept and say "I can live with that." If I become a member of the ARRL
BoD I would work with all of the interested parties in an effort to forge
that sort of result.

In addition to significantly improving the general level of technical
knowledge and skill of hams, growing our numbers (both licensees and ARRL
members), protecting our spectrum, and getting more people trained for and
involved in emergency communications, one of the MOST pressing problems we
face is to reverse the trend of "compartmentalizing" ourselves into
"factions" whose whole world revolves around one mode or one activity,
because the resulting "turf wars," suspicion/mistrust/paranoia,
in-fighting, and attacks on each other divide us in ways that both are bad
for the ARS as it's seen externally and bad for the ARS internally as we
get along with (or don't) each other.

We should ALL be "hams" (period) and work together cooperatively and
constructively going forward into the future on the truly important issues
facing ham radio and the ARRL. ALL hams should treat each other with
respect and courtesy, regardless of license class or operating
preferences. Experienced hams need to welcome new hams with the spirit of
patience and helpfulness that "Elmering" embodies, rather than treating
them as some inferior form of life.

As far as "dumbing down" goes - I don't buy it - as Ed Hare, W1RFI
(someone who I think most here respect), has recounted ... the "beginner's
test (novice)" in his day had a 3-1/2 page study guide, the general study
guide was 16 pages (I had mis-remembered and stated 12-14 pages in a
couple of presentations, but that was an honest mistake and doesn't really
alter the point). Today, the "Now You're Talking" - the study guide for
the "beginner's test (tech)" is on the order of 200 pages or slightly more
and covers MANY more topics than the study guides of Ed's test-taking days
ever covered.

The point is that things have NOT been "dumbed down" ... there is more to
study and learn than ever before - just to become a "beginner." I was
licensed long enough ago to have been a member of QCWA for some time, and
I am FIRMLY convinced that those who complain about "dumbing down" of the
testing are either being disingenuous, or more likely simply remember the
tests that they took many years ago as being MUCH harder than they
actually were. Besides, the test isn't a proof that you "know all there
is to know," nor SHOULD it be.

I'd ask older hams with higher class licenses to think back to the
mistakes that they made when they first went on the air many years ago -
and how the more experienced hams of the time (generally) were patient,
tolerant, and helpful. Show the newcomers the way in polite, respectful,
and constructive ways, rather than slamming them and telling them they're
no good!

If anyone (particularly from the Atlantic Division) wants to see
information on my background and qualifications and some issues material,
it's available on my personal website at http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c.
Questions and comments via direct e-mail are, of course, welcomed (again,
particularly from ARRL Atlantic Division members).

73,
Carl - wk3c
Good luck to you Carl.

One parting shot ..... now a days the new comers are not like we used to
be. The new hams today are educated by using Cobra's and kickers, and all
the assorted crap that goes along with that mindset.

Dan/W4NTI

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
ink.net...

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

robert casey wrote:

I still like my suggestion......bottom 25 of ALL HF bands....CW ONLY.
No
digital, etc. That way those that want can.


We could and should do this as a gentlemen's' agreement. No
need for FCC micromanagement here.

well in the eyes of those that see CW under attack they do see still
see a need for a coded reservation, and they fear that they will lose
everything out side of it

Yet the reality of today is that except for two VHF bands,
50.0 MHz to 50.1 and 144.0 MHz to 144.1, there are no
other exclusive CW segments at all.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK


Very true Bill. The gentlemans agreements worked....then. Not anymore.
The gentlemen have died off, and the CBers have replaced them. Think about
it.

Dan/W4NTI

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...
"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
ink.net...

"robert casey" wrote in message
.net...

I still like my suggestion......bottom 25 of ALL HF bands....CW ONLY.
No digital, etc. That way those that want can.


We could and should do this as a gentlemen's' agreement. No
need for FCC micromanagement here.

Works for me. Such is the case already
with ARRL bandplans for USA already.
I'd have no problem with the bottom 25KHz
each HF band being CW only.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

Nor would I, per se, but since narrow modes like PSK31 take about the same
bandwidth, does it make sense to keep them out?


Why should we allow PSK31 in the CW segement at all? Isn't the REST of the
band (pick your band) enough?


However, whichever way that question is answered, there is a problem is
that in some bands the bottom 25 kHz is for Extras only.

So what? Change it.

Would the Extra CW ops be willing to share their "exclusive playground"
??? Would they be willing to share with, e.g. PSK31???

I've been an Extra for 20 years. A ham for 44. I have no problem with
dropping the silly "Extra exclusive CW subbands". I answered the PSK issue
earlier.

(I should point out here again that I do NOT favor expansion of the phone
bands to allow SSB to "run roughshod" over CW and the digital modes any
more than I think that Winlink/PactorIII "robots" should run roughshod
over CW, PSK31, etc.)

See my other, longer post for more on this issue and others.

73,
Carl - wk3c
http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c

Dan/W4NTI

wrote in message
oups.com...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
Even today....well actually for
many years....the 80 meter band is a classic example of wasted space.
Mostly dead air in the "CW" allocations. In particular from
3.5 to 3.6.

I think you meant "3.6 to 3.7"

No I didn't....I don't consider 5 CW stations in 100 KC over use of a
segement. Or should I say "Use of a segement". Nets are there for sure,
but not for long. Then the band is dead again.

Lots of open space from 3.6 to 3.750 if you want to be open
minded on this
subject.

All of 80 meters is open to digital modes. You know, the
modes all those new, young, modern hams are going to use
when Element 1 goes away.

If there's so much room, then what's the problem making
3500 to 3575 Morse Code only?

Because we don't use it now. 25 on the bottom of all bands is plenty IF it
is CW exclusive to ALL classes.


40 is another case and it is gonna be real tough to put that
mess straight..
hi.

Not really. The mess is due to the rest of the world wanting
7100-7300 for SWBC. That's going away, even as we speak, and
more and more of the rest of the world is letting their hams
have 7100-7200. Eventually 7000-7300 will be worldwide
exclusive amateur.

So what's the problem with 7000-7050 being Morse Code only?

See above

20/15/10 could all use some "CW Trimming" today.

Let's cut to the chase. It's about more room for 'phone and
less for Morse Code and digital modes. Some folks talk big
about "new directions" and "modernization" and "fresh ideas",
but what they really mean is more bandspace for SSB.

I still like my suggestion......bottom 25 of ALL HF bands....CW ONLY.
No
digital, etc. That way those that want can.

Those that don't.....won't.

The trouble is that it will take an Extra to get down there.


No it won't. Drop the Extra only and be done with that Dinosaur.
Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
news

Band allocation should be allocated on long term statistics
generated in
regards to the modes used... (past year or two)

A year or two is "long tern"? HAW, that's a good one!

(Does this guy know what a sunspot cycle is?)

As CW continues its'

"its".

drop, it needs less and less allocations...

Who says CW is dropping?

as
no-coders now enter CW will have to shrink to accommodate the new
users and their modes...

You mean SSB, right? Because there's no Morse-Code-only subbands
on HF-MF in the USA.

73 de Jim, N2EY

I no longer care to waste my time with you Lennie. You are Anti-Amateur
Radio. You have no reason to be in this group. Other than to sew hate and
discontent.

You don't even have a license or any experience in Amateur Radio at all.
Thus your comments and input are of no interest to me. Nor should they be
to any other person here.

In other words I no longer give a rip what you say or think.

Have a nice life.

Dan/W4NTI

Lennie's idiotic comments deleted
plonk

wrote in message
oups.com...

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
10 KC? Not enough. At least 25 per HF band.

Why so little? Should be at least this much:

Morse Code Only Subbands:

1800-1830
3500-3575
7000-7050
10100-10115
14000-14050
18068-18083
21000-21075
24890-24905
28000-28100

Why not?

73 de Jim, N2EY


Don't need that much.

Dan/W4NTI