"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
link.net...

There it is. Proof that "Incentive licensing" has caused hate and
discontent in Ham Radio. I've said it for years. And here it is.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan ... at last we agree!!!!!!

We *MUST* eliminate this "I'm better than you because (pick one of the
following, or any other reason ... "I have a higher class license." or "I
passed an xx wpm Morse test.") - class warfare.

We are ALL hams ... period. Some are more experienced. They SHOULD be
Elmering (and Elmering doesn't mean "browbeating them into your personal
preferences") the newbies and HELPING them to learn (whatever they want
to) about ham radio, rather than "dising" them and treating them like
dirt.

This stuff has GOT to stop!

73,
Carl - wk3c
http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c



Sure does......most of the newcomers are into learning. Most of the
newcomers do want to be Elmered. However......some of the newcomers need
an attitude adjustment. Most of them are here it seems.

You raise a good point, Dan. Elmering is good. Being a willing student is
good. You must have both for it to work. Many new Hams do not want to feel
inferior. I don't know if it is the first generation of "high self esteem"
students hitting adulthood or what. But there are a number of newbies out
there that bristle when offered advice. And I do know how to offer advice
in a kindly manner.


I think this "protect their self esteem at all costs" approach was badly
mishandled. While one should never put down a person, they do need guidance
and it has to be pointed out that mistakes are mistakes. Because these
students were protected from their mistakes and told it was OK, in the end,
I believe that they end up with lower self-esteem. They do often realize
that they've made a mistake but the fact that no one points it out or helps
them correct it transfroms in their minds into the concept that they are so
lowly that they aren't worth helping. This is a bigger hit on their self
esteem than anything I can think of.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

You want to give these Liberal taught kids a lesson in self respect?

Draft them into the military.

That will fix the situation in LESS than a generation.

Dan/W4NTI

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
hlink.net...

There it is. Proof that "Incentive licensing" has caused hate and
discontent in Ham Radio. I've said it for years. And here it is.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan ... at last we agree!!!!!!

We *MUST* eliminate this "I'm better than you because (pick one of the
following, or any other reason ... "I have a higher class license." or
"I passed an xx wpm Morse test.") - class warfare.

We are ALL hams ... period. Some are more experienced. They SHOULD be
Elmering (and Elmering doesn't mean "browbeating them into your personal
preferences") the newbies and HELPING them to learn (whatever they want
to) about ham radio, rather than "dising" them and treating them like
dirt.

This stuff has GOT to stop!

73,
Carl - wk3c
http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c



Sure does......most of the newcomers are into learning. Most of the
newcomers do want to be Elmered. However......some of the newcomers
need an attitude adjustment. Most of them are here it seems.

You raise a good point, Dan. Elmering is good. Being a willing student is
good. You must have both for it to work. Many new Hams do not want to
feel inferior. I don't know if it is the first generation of "high self
esteem" students hitting adulthood or what. But there are a number of
newbies out there that bristle when offered advice. And I do know how to
offer advice in a kindly manner.


I think this "protect their self esteem at all costs" approach was badly
mishandled. While one should never put down a person, they do need
guidance and it has to be pointed out that mistakes are mistakes. Because
these students were protected from their mistakes and told it was OK, in
the end, I believe that they end up with lower self-esteem. They do often
realize that they've made a mistake but the fact that no one points it out
or helps them correct it transfroms in their minds into the concept that
they are so lowly that they aren't worth helping. This is a bigger hit on
their self esteem than anything I can think of.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Wed 24 Aug 2005 00:12

You want to give these Liberal taught kids a lesson in self respect?

Draft them into the military.

That will fix the situation in LESS than a generation.


Don't y'all LOVE it when Dannie do his George C. Scott imitation
from the movie "Patton?" Gotta love that Amateur Radio Service
Uniform, the shiny helmet, polished riding boots (no mud from the
Fulda Gap on them, nossir!), all those Medals of glorious ham
service, the chrome-plated morse key in its holster at his side!

The huge American flag behind him on the stage is quite effective.
However, the equally huge banner saying DEATH TO NO-CODERS! is a
bit tacky.

Here's some recruits to "be taught a lesson through military
service...they haven't served yet:"

James Miccolis
Brian Kelly
Michael Coslo
Dee Flint

Tension-hutt! Keep a straight line! Eyes front! No talking
in ranks! You OBEY DAN, do whatever he say! He be da new
Dill Sergeant! He God!

sho biz

wrote in message
ups.com...

plonk

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

plonk

Plonk is cheap wine. Seems like you've been getting enough lately.

Len:

Dan looks more like a gestapo agent hunting jews... dan is just an
extremest amateur...

John

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:37:08 -0700, wrote:

From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Wed 24 Aug 2005 00:12

You want to give these Liberal taught kids a lesson in self respect?

Draft them into the military.

That will fix the situation in LESS than a generation.


Don't y'all LOVE it when Dannie do his George C. Scott imitation
from the movie "Patton?" Gotta love that Amateur Radio Service
Uniform, the shiny helmet, polished riding boots (no mud from the
Fulda Gap on them, nossir!), all those Medals of glorious ham
service, the chrome-plated morse key in its holster at his side!

The huge American flag behind him on the stage is quite effective.
However, the equally huge banner saying DEATH TO NO-CODERS! is a
bit tacky.

Here's some recruits to "be taught a lesson through military
service...they haven't served yet:"

James Miccolis
Brian Kelly
Michael Coslo
Dee Flint

Tension-hutt! Keep a straight line! Eyes front! No talking
in ranks! You OBEY DAN, do whatever he say! He be da new
Dill Sergeant! He God!

sho biz

wrote:
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Wed 24 Aug 2005 00:12

You want to give these Liberal taught kids a lesson in self respect?

Draft them into the military.

That will fix the situation in LESS than a generation.

Don't y'all LOVE it when Dannie do his George C. Scott imitation
from the movie "Patton?" Gotta love that Amateur Radio Service
Uniform, the shiny helmet, polished riding boots (no mud from the
Fulda Gap on them, nossir!), all those Medals of glorious ham
service, the chrome-plated morse key in its holster at his side!

With ivory finger pieces?

The huge American flag behind him on the stage is quite effective.
However, the equally huge banner saying DEATH TO NO-CODERS! is a
bit tacky.

Compassionate No-Codism is about to erupt. Or maybe not.

Here's some recruits to "be taught a lesson through military
service...they haven't served yet:"

James Miccolis
Brian Kelly
Michael Coslo
Dee Flint

Tension-hutt! Keep a straight line! Eyes front! No talking
in ranks! You OBEY DAN, do whatever he say! He be da new
Dill Sergeant! He God!

You forgot "Fall In" and "Taller Tap." Aw forgeddit. It would be
wasted on that group.

sho biz


Welp, at least Kelly has "real military experience." Probably photo'd
Steve washing down the Geedunk. Photo's stamped "FOUO" and faxed to
the NSA.

From: on Aug 24, 7:32 pm

wrote:
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Wed 24 Aug 2005 00:12

You want to give these Liberal taught kids a lesson in self respect?

Draft them into the military.

That will fix the situation in LESS than a generation.

Don't y'all LOVE it when Dannie do his George C. Scott imitation
from the movie "Patton?" Gotta love that Amateur Radio Service
Uniform, the shiny helmet, polished riding boots (no mud from the
Fulda Gap on them, nossir!), all those Medals of glorious ham
service, the chrome-plated morse key in its holster at his side!

With ivory finger pieces?

Right. [grips really] I forgot the Croix de Gruyere around his
neck (the cheese, not the Croix du Guerre medal).

The huge American flag behind him on the stage is quite effective.
However, the equally huge banner saying DEATH TO NO-CODERS! is a
bit tacky.

Compassionate No-Codism is about to erupt. Or maybe not.

Doubt it. That was a Cold War Hero talking, a veteran of the
Fulda Gap Campaign...!


Here's some recruits to "be taught a lesson through military
service...they haven't served yet:"

James Miccolis
Brian Kelly
Michael Coslo
Dee Flint

Tension-hutt! Keep a straight line! Eyes front! No talking
in ranks! You OBEY DAN, do whatever he say! He be da new
Dill Sergeant! He God!

You forgot "Fall In" and "Taller Tap." Aw forgeddit. It would be
wasted on that group.

True. I think all but Dee ran off to Canada to avoid serving...


Welp, at least Kelly has "real military experience." Probably photo'd
Steve washing down the Geedunk. Photo's stamped "FOUO" and faxed to
the NSA.

I can't "bear" the thought of that... :-)

bam hit

From: Dee Flint on Aug 23, 3:37 pm

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message

There it is. Proof that "Incentive licensing" has caused hate and
discontent in Ham Radio. I've said it for years. And here it is.

Dan ... at last we agree!!!!!!

:-)

We *MUST* eliminate this "I'm better than you because (pick one of the
following, or any other reason ... "I have a higher class license." or "I
passed an xx wpm Morse test.") - class warfare.

We are ALL hams ... period. Some are more experienced. They SHOULD be
Elmering (and Elmering doesn't mean "browbeating them into your personal
preferences") the newbies and HELPING them to learn (whatever they want
to) about ham radio, rather than "dising" them and treating them like
dirt.

[tsk, if that could only extend beyond...to newsgroups...:-) ]

This stuff has GOT to stop!

Sure does......most of the newcomers are into learning. Most of the
newcomers do want to be Elmered. However......some of the newcomers need
an attitude adjustment. Most of them are here it seems.

[whoops...Dan blew it with the "attitude adjustement" remark...]

You raise a good point, Dan. Elmering is good. Being a willing student is
good. You must have both for it to work. Many new Hams do not want to feel
inferior. I don't know if it is the first generation of "high self esteem"
students hitting adulthood or what. But there are a number of newbies out
there that bristle when offered advice. And I do know how to offer advice
in a kindly manner.

[Carl, some folks in here will disagree with you...not in a kindly
manner...:-) ]

I think this "protect their self esteem at all costs" approach was badly
mishandled.

Hello? Is Dee talking about the Public School System now?

Where is amateur radio taught in public schools?

While one should never put down a person, they do need guidance
and it has to be pointed out that mistakes are mistakes.

It MUST be the public school system. Sure as "heck" that doesn't
apply in HERE. :-)

Because these
students were protected from their mistakes and told it was OK, in the end,
I believe that they end up with lower self-esteem.

Sounds like what happened to all them olde-tyme hammes trying to
perpetuate the ARS (Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society) & morsemanship.

They do often realize
that they've made a mistake but the fact that no one points it out or helps
them correct it transfroms in their minds into the concept that they are so
lowly that they aren't worth helping.

Yup, that's what all them olde-tyme hamme morsemen are doing
with all the NCTA (lowly beyond belief, not having the "proper
attitude" and worshiping these mighty masters of radio).

This is a bigger hit on their self esteem than anything I can think of.

Except in some females' cases where their remarks are, well, it
can't be said in here... :-)

OKAY, all you ESTEEMED ELMERS...GET OUT THERE and Win One for Hiram!

ADJUST THOSE ATTITUDES! STAND AT ATTENTION WHEN AN ELMER TALKS
TO YOU!

Farf...snort... :-)

elm oak

Dee:

There are naturally gifted teachers, but they are not all that common
place, the rest need some formal training, and some will never be
teachers. From personal experience, I have grown to think the very
worst--think themselves the very best--with some, no amount of real world
proof will get the point across that they need to adjust their teaching
method, for this reason, some should NOT have tenure.

What is true knowledge and what is just personal dislikes, opinions and
beliefs is a real problem to, unless you have a strong ability to keep
the two separated, science and religion, you are going to have great
difficulty with any but avg and below avg students--they know the
difference.

There are bandwidth allocations, math formulas dealing with electronic
circuits, regulations in the FCC rules, etc.--and then there is "style."
If you attempt to teach your "style", be prepared to be frustrated--some
will accept it to be nice--then go about their business, others will need
religion and are searching for purpose and acceptance and will adopt
it--and, yet again, others may think you a control freak... but you have
seen this in the real world about you and I waste both our time
reiterating such...

John


On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:37:16 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:


"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
hlink.net...

There it is. Proof that "Incentive licensing" has caused hate and
discontent in Ham Radio. I've said it for years. And here it is.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan ... at last we agree!!!!!!

We *MUST* eliminate this "I'm better than you because (pick one of the
following, or any other reason ... "I have a higher class license." or "I
passed an xx wpm Morse test.") - class warfare.

We are ALL hams ... period. Some are more experienced. They SHOULD be
Elmering (and Elmering doesn't mean "browbeating them into your personal
preferences") the newbies and HELPING them to learn (whatever they want
to) about ham radio, rather than "dising" them and treating them like
dirt.

This stuff has GOT to stop!

73,
Carl - wk3c
http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c



Sure does......most of the newcomers are into learning. Most of the
newcomers do want to be Elmered. However......some of the newcomers need
an attitude adjustment. Most of them are here it seems.

You raise a good point, Dan. Elmering is good. Being a willing student is
good. You must have both for it to work. Many new Hams do not want to feel
inferior. I don't know if it is the first generation of "high self esteem"
students hitting adulthood or what. But there are a number of newbies out
there that bristle when offered advice. And I do know how to offer advice
in a kindly manner.


I think this "protect their self esteem at all costs" approach was badly
mishandled. While one should never put down a person, they do need guidance
and it has to be pointed out that mistakes are mistakes. Because these
students were protected from their mistakes and told it was OK, in the end,
I believe that they end up with lower self-esteem. They do often realize
that they've made a mistake but the fact that no one points it out or helps
them correct it transfroms in their minds into the concept that they are so
lowly that they aren't worth helping. This is a bigger hit on their self
esteem than anything I can think of.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE