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#11
September 1st 05, 02:57 AM
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On 31 Aug 2005 15:01:12 -0700, "K4YZ" wrote in
. com: Frank Gilliland wrote: On 31 Aug 2005 11:11:52 -0700, "Bob" wrote in .com: Saw this morning a brief mention on Fox News about hams doing health and welfare emergency traffic for New Orleans. "Only reliable communications in the area". They showed a few ham transcievers, one displaying a 70cm band frequency, another HF rig on 20 meters in the phone subband. This is the sort of disaster that ham radio handles well. Cell phones are mostly out, as well as most any other comm system that needs physical infrastructure to function. I guess that means CB radios aren't working either, huh? I am sure they work fine where they are not otherwise mechanically damaged. It's not the tool...It's how you use it... Oddly enough, I couldn't agree with you more. But it seems there are some 'people' that would take the opportunity to toot their own horn in the midst of a huge and horrible natural disaster. I think some 'people' have their priorities a little screwed up. You can bet that people are using -whatever- kind of communication is at their disposal -- and from the way it looks on the news, even radio is taking a backseat to cardboard signs and spray paint. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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#12
September 1st 05, 03:17 AM
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On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:11:48 -0700, Cmdr Buzz corey
wrote in : Bob wrote: Saw this morning a brief mention on Fox News about hams doing health and welfare emergency traffic for New Orleans. "Only reliable communications in the area". They showed a few ham transcievers, one displaying a 70cm band frequency, another HF rig on 20 meters in the phone subband. This is the sort of disaster that ham radio handles well. Cell phones are mostly out, No no, just can't be. There are those on this group that swear cell phones are very reliable in emergencies. Much better than ham radio, after all, almost everyone has a cell phone but not a ham radio. But if the infrastructure that supports cell phones is out of operation........ as well as most any other comm system that needs physical infrastructure to function. Yet there are those that claim with today's technology that kind of thing just can't happen, thus there is no need for ham radio to play a part in emergency comms anymore. Yet official emergency plans include plans for the use of ham radio if necessary. Cell phones and cb aren't. Official emergency plans don't include cardboard signs and spray paint but they are being used anyway. This is just the kind of thing that makes folks like lennieboy cringe with envy. They like to downplay the role of amateur radio in emergencies, say it is outdated, modern technology can do much better and is more reliable, all in an attempt to cover the fact they can't be a part of it. Yep, all those people holding up cardboard signs and spray-painting "HELP" on their roofs are the hams doing what they do best -- using low-tech communications! ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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#13
September 1st 05, 03:22 AM
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On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:16:21 -0700, Cmdr Buzz corey
wrote in : Frank Gilliland wrote: I never knew there was a minimum range for emergency communications. So how far does a radio wave have to go in order to get this distinction? A couple hundred miles? More than 10 or 20 miles? Is there some FCC rule that defines this distance? Doesn't matter, cb is limited in it's useful range, And ham radio is limited in it's availability. What's your point? not to mention all the idiots screaming "ten fer thar" and "aaaaaauuuuuudddddddiiiiiioooo". Oh, I'm sure that's happening quite a bit -- hundreds of thousands of people taking time out from trying to find lost family members, food, water, and a dry place to sleep, just to whoop it up on the CB. Idiot. Name the range you want and ham radio can provide it by using the proper band. Name the range and try to find a ham radio. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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#14
September 1st 05, 04:02 AM
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Frank Gilliland wrote: On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 00:12:57 GMT, "Jim Hampton" wrote in : "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message .. . On 31 Aug 2005 11:11:52 -0700, "Bob" wrote in .com: Saw this morning a brief mention on Fox News about hams doing health and welfare emergency traffic for New Orleans. "Only reliable communications in the area". They showed a few ham transcievers, one displaying a 70cm band frequency, another HF rig on 20 meters in the phone subband. This is the sort of disaster that ham radio handles well. Cell phones are mostly out, as well as most any other comm system that needs physical infrastructure to function. I guess that means CB radios aren't working either, huh? If a large area is devestated, one just might need a couple hundred mile range 24/7. Even battery powered HTs through a repeater can get you 30 = to 100 miles total between users. Hf rigs can supply you continuous covera= ge 24/7 from local to thousands of miles. You just select an appropriate frequency (ranges of a few decades in frequency may be involved here). There may be a lot more cbs, but if you can only get 10 or 20 miles and = you keep receiving skip from other stations far away running power .... I never knew there was a minimum range for emergency communications. So how far does a radio wave have to go in order to get this distinction? A couple hundred miles? More than 10 or 20 miles? Is there some FCC rule that defines this distance? 150 miles is the max legal CB range (a very stupid rule BTW) but in an emergency anything goes that works ----=3D=3D Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet = News=3D=3D---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ = Newsgroups ----=3D East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption = =3D---- |
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#15
September 1st 05, 04:11 AM
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Bob wrote:
Saw this morning a brief mention on Fox News about hams doing health and welfare emergency traffic for New Orleans. "Only reliable communications in the area". They showed a few ham transcievers, one displaying a 70cm band frequency, another HF rig on 20 meters in the phone subband. This is the sort of disaster that ham radio handles well. Cell phones are mostly out, No no, just can't be. There are those on this group that swear cell phones are very reliable in emergencies. Much better than ham radio, after all, almost everyone has a cell phone but not a ham radio. But if the infrastructure that supports cell phones is out of operation........ as well as most any other comm system that needs physical infrastructure to function. Yet there are those that claim with today's technology that kind of thing just can't happen, thus there is no need for ham radio to play a part in emergency comms anymore. Yet official emergency plans include plans for the use of ham radio if necessary. Cell phones and cb aren't. This is just the kind of thing that makes folks like lennieboy cringe with envy. They like to downplay the role of amateur radio in emergencies, say it is outdated, modern technology can do much better and is more reliable, all in an attempt to cover the fact they can't be a part of it. |
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#17
September 1st 05, 04:16 AM
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Frank Gilliland wrote:
I never knew there was a minimum range for emergency communications. So how far does a radio wave have to go in order to get this distinction? A couple hundred miles? More than 10 or 20 miles? Is there some FCC rule that defines this distance? Doesn't matter, cb is limited in it's useful range, not to mention all the idiots screaming "ten fer thar" and "aaaaaauuuuuudddddddiiiiiioooo". Name the range you want and ham radio can provide it by using the proper band. |
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#18
September 1st 05, 04:25 AM
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#19
September 1st 05, 04:51 AM
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From: Jim Hampton on Aug 31, 5:08 pm
wrote in message Doesn't matter about MODE...all good morsepersons know that all amateur radio SURVIVES all possible emergencies, floats on water while the hams walk on water...:-) Of course not Len. Not everything survives; the portable and mobile stuff will survive far better than the cellphone towers, police towers and even amateur towers. The smaller towers (usually amateur), however, do have the one advantage of a much smaller windload to carry. Really? :-) Maybe you're right. Amateur radio towers are kept up by FAITH. Busy gal that Faith... Hmmm...looking at the terrible scenes in Louisiana and Mississippi, I couldn't help but notice a few police officers about (in New Orleans) with one talking on his police HT. Then, on NBC news with Brian Williams, a video clip showed an antenna- laden Humvee of the Mississippi National Guard. Oh, and the USCG with all those helos and the hoister guy talking with the loader-into-the-basket guy on some kind of radio. Presumably the helo pilots can talk to their base of ops by radio. Oh, and all the news commentators in shirt-sleeves doing their video-audio reporting from on-scene...and various folks telephoning in audio stories. Yup...the whole INFRASTRUCTURE went totally kaput at the end of the Mississippi River! The biggest difference might just lie in understanding how things work. ESPECIALLY everyone's local INFRASTRUCTURE, communications-wise. I've been involved in exactly two emergency situations. One was on ssb with Hans K0HB and the other was on 500 KHz. Yes, the cw is old, but the situation involving Hans can happen at any time. Amazingly, that huge coast guard tower did *not* survive the typhoon. An hf amateur rig could load a chain link fence and provide reliable communications. So, do tell us your experiences with emergency communications and why you know that amateur radio will always (or never) float. 1994 Northridge Earthquake. TOTAL loss of electrical power to about 10 MILLION a few minutes after 4:30 AM. [53 persons died as a direct result of that quake] Some places had severe structural damage, gas main in Northridge ruptured, caught fire, various utility poles and their lines down in many places, a few collapsed freeway overpasses. LAFD and other professional FDs had leased lines that went straight to stations, didn't go through the switching centers of telephone offices. All of them followed the pre-existing emergency plan and rolled out. A few answered radio calls to fires that had broken out (FDs have back-up electrical power for their base stations). PDs were in constant contact by radio, their bases also having backup electrical power. The hospitals of course had their emergency electrical generators going and most of the ambulance services not a part of hospitals were able to communicate by their radios. TOTAL street blackout except for headlights of vehicles, that way until sun-up (late, it was January 17th). Utility companies had the greatest workload of all, but they had their radios and could communicate...just too many places to go to to fix things all at once...but they managed to contact all able employees to get them to work (some going direct to repair sites). Electrical power restoration didn't come back until shortly before noon, a sequential area-by-area turn-on necessary to keep the AC frequency constant. Got my residence power back at 2 PM, could see the TV scenes (TV broadcasters long ago had backup electric power). FEMA was on the scene the next day, doing the first real trial of their flyaway terminals...and set up VIDEO bulletin boards so that folks here could post things for faraway family and friends. About 2:30 PM on the 17th I got a telephone call from my uncle and aunt in Florida, worried call; we were okay and we talked at some length. They had no problem getting through. I got a call about 10 AM (give or take) wanting me to help out with a utility company the next day; no problem getting through to my residence phone. Was there any amateur radio activated here on that 17th of January? I'm not sure. Haven't heard of any locally. All I know is what I've seen of the Greater L.A. Emergency Communications System and its periodic drilling, refining of procedures, etc. Amateurs were not a part of that in 1994. That system worked just as it was expected to, even if it was part of the INFRASTRUCTURE that "was supposed to fail." Ham equipment can "float?" Haven't seen any yet with floation devices. I'm sure someone can jury rig something for them. National HROs and Halliscratchers are all boat anchors and will dutifully go to the bottom of the water. Larry Roll once postulated a Ten-Tec that "floated ashore" to a hypothetical desert island after a hypothetical ship sinking and he used that to send hypothetical messages from that by hypothetical morse code (which didn't require any hypothetical electric power..."CW gets through when nothing else will" and stuff like thet there). Larry had too many hypos perhaps and departed the newsgroup on April 15 last year. My house is 830 feet above mean sea level; am NOT worried about flooding. Now, I'm absolutely sure that amateur radio CAN be a definite help in a big disasterous emergency. Sometime. Besides the documentary film about invading space aliens, that is. I'm just NOT convinced that the INFRASTRUCTURE is going to FAIL to such as extent that amateur radio is "the only possible savior." From what I've seen on the TV news of the terrible destruction from hurricane Katrina, the average amateur radio station in the average New Orleans residence is not only submerged to the roof line, but the electric power to it is out and any emergency generators that might have been at those stations are completely under water. If the shingles of a roof can blow off completely in the downwash of a USCG helo (as has been seen by millions of viewers), you'll have a hard sell to me on saying "amateur radio towers have less wind loading and will survive" because I ain't gonna believe some rinky-dink wire antennas I've seen can hold up under 100+ MPH winds. I WILL believe an NG Humvee with VRCs can do their nevis thing (cloud-burning) and get through to the horizon IN such winds. With most kindest warmest kissy-poo regards, |
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#20
September 1st 05, 05:18 AM
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Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:16:21 -0700, Cmdr Buzz corey wrote in : Frank Gilliland wrote: I never knew there was a minimum range for emergency communications. So how far does a radio wave have to go in order to get this distinction? A couple hundred miles? More than 10 or 20 miles? Is there some FCC rule that defines this distance? Doesn't matter, cb is limited in it's useful range, And ham radio is limited in it's availability. What's your point? So what does that have to do with communication range? Name the range you want and there is a ham band that will provide it. not to mention all the idiots screaming "ten fer thar" and "aaaaaauuuuuudddddddiiiiiioooo". Oh, I'm sure that's happening quite a bit -- hundreds of thousands of people taking time out from trying to find lost family members, food, water, and a dry place to sleep, just to whoop it up on the CB. On a band full of screaming idiots yelling "ten fer thar", "git off my channel", and "aaaaaaauuuuuuuudddddddiiiiiioooooo". Idiot. Yes they are. Name the range you want and ham radio can provide it by using the proper band. Name the range and try to find a ham radio. There are hams right now using HF/VHF/UHF frequencies to cover just about any distance for emergency communications, so you point is? I will use your term...idiot. |
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