From: "Bill Sohl" on Fri 2 Sep 2005 02:08


"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
wrote in message
From: Dan/W4NTI on Sep 1, 5:26 pm

I hope you folks can give a listen to HF during this disaster. It is
amazing how Ham Radio has stepped up to the plate and is providing
Communications where the Commercial infrastructure is destroyed.

"Commercial infrastructure" is defined as anything non-amateur?

Agreed.

Let me revise that.

If non-amateur includes CD, FRS and GMRS then I agree. If by
amateur Len is only referencing the Amateur Service (Part 97)
then I disagree and would suggest the following.

Commercial Infrastructure is anything other than CB, FRS,
GMRS or Amateur Service.

Bill, not to nit-pick, but on the same subject you would have to
add in the NATIONAL GUARD. Definitely not "commercial." One
could also add the National Military Forces should they be
activated; Louisiana NG is already activated within that state.
National Guard has rugged multi-environment equipment and
vehicles.

We can also consider local PUBLIC SAFETY agencies as "non-
commercial" (police, fire, ambulances), could we not? In truth,
New Orleans has only 1,500 police officers, not nearly enough
to properly police things in such a devastated area, but they
do have local radio communications equipment.

---

We ought to consider what BASIC EMERGENCY NEEDS are. Plain survival
always comes first with humans (sex is secondary to survival). For
that the BASIC NEEDS a Food, shelter (dry), toilet, hygiene,
clothing/footwear (as appropriate for climate), medical (as needed,
not all need it immediately), protection/police. That order is
approximate, most-to-least.

In the immediate disaster areas of Louisiana and Mississippi, those
basic needs are being provided (not necessarily all or in order) by
the LOCALS who are within human-voice talking distance of victims.
Most of those BASIC NEEDS come from supplies and/or services and
must be physically delivered. In many observed situations, supplies
and services CANNOT be phsically delivered due to flooding making
roads impassible, existing aerial wires prohibiting helicopter
descents, debris of all kinds inhibiting water or vehicles.

Looking at the overall big picture of SURVIVAL for tens of thousands
of victims, "communications" some distance away is NOT on the BASIC
SURVIVAL need list. Victims want to communicate with immediate
rescuers, helpers, aid people FIRST. They must have BASIC NEEDS.
Once those basic needs are at least partly satisfied, they can
turn their attention to distant communications, to contact family,
friends...but that is NOT in the basic needs listing.

Those of us sitting in safe, dry homes, typing away at keyboards,
have the basic needs at hand, don't need help. Most of us don't
think about them because we aren't in a disaster zone, suffering
the aftermath of widespread destruction, flooding. It is very
easy to talk about radio networks and health and welfare messages
AS IF they were some kind of "basic needs" but those are NOT.
Yes, news to/from family and friends IS important, but, when faced
with a loss of everything or nearly everything in the BASIC NEEDS
FOR SURVIVAL listing, it is way down on the importance priority.

For tens of thousands of humans in Louisiana and Mississippi, the
basic needs for survival are NEEDED NOW. Most don't have a single
one of the basic needs now and none of those can be supplied by a
radio. Local aid people have to handle that, up-close and
personal, ON THE SCENE. Now radio communications CAN be of
service to those local aid people, coordinating their activities
and delivery/distribution of needed supplies/shelter. Such radio
communications is presently being handled by radio facilities that
survived the hurricane and following flooding. Maybe THAT is
where amateur radios (that also survived the hurricane and flooding)
can help. "Health and welfare messages" just wouldn't be on a
disaster victim's immediate needs right now.

We need to put things in perspective...and rationally try to
imagine the plight of victims who have lost almost ALL of their
basic survival necessities.

wrote in message
oups.com...
From: "Bill Sohl" on Fri 2 Sep 2005 02:08


"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
wrote in message
From: Dan/W4NTI on Sep 1, 5:26 pm

I hope you folks can give a listen to HF during this disaster. It is
amazing how Ham Radio has stepped up to the plate and is providing
Communications where the Commercial infrastructure is destroyed.

"Commercial infrastructure" is defined as anything non-amateur?

Agreed.

Let me revise that.

If non-amateur includes CD, FRS and GMRS then I agree. If by
amateur Len is only referencing the Amateur Service (Part 97)
then I disagree and would suggest the following.

Commercial Infrastructure is anything other than CB, FRS,
GMRS or Amateur Service.

Bill, not to nit-pick, but on the same subject you would have to
add in the NATIONAL GUARD. Definitely not "commercial." One
could also add the National Military Forces should they be
activated; Louisiana NG is already activated within that state.
National Guard has rugged multi-environment equipment and
vehicles.

We can also consider local PUBLIC SAFETY agencies as "non-
commercial" (police, fire, ambulances), could we not? In truth,
New Orleans has only 1,500 police officers, not nearly enough
to properly police things in such a devastated area, but they
do have local radio communications equipment.

---

We ought to consider what BASIC EMERGENCY NEEDS are. Plain survival
always comes first with humans (sex is secondary to survival). For
that the BASIC NEEDS a Food, shelter (dry), toilet, hygiene,
clothing/footwear (as appropriate for climate), medical (as needed,
not all need it immediately), protection/police. That order is
approximate, most-to-least.

In the immediate disaster areas of Louisiana and Mississippi, those
basic needs are being provided (not necessarily all or in order) by
the LOCALS who are within human-voice talking distance of victims.
Most of those BASIC NEEDS come from supplies and/or services and
must be physically delivered. In many observed situations, supplies
and services CANNOT be phsically delivered due to flooding making
roads impassible, existing aerial wires prohibiting helicopter
descents, debris of all kinds inhibiting water or vehicles.

Looking at the overall big picture of SURVIVAL for tens of thousands
of victims, "communications" some distance away is NOT on the BASIC
SURVIVAL need list. Victims want to communicate with immediate
rescuers, helpers, aid people FIRST. They must have BASIC NEEDS.
Once those basic needs are at least partly satisfied, they can
turn their attention to distant communications, to contact family,
friends...but that is NOT in the basic needs listing.

Those of us sitting in safe, dry homes, typing away at keyboards,
have the basic needs at hand, don't need help. Most of us don't
think about them because we aren't in a disaster zone, suffering
the aftermath of widespread destruction, flooding. It is very
easy to talk about radio networks and health and welfare messages
AS IF they were some kind of "basic needs" but those are NOT.
Yes, news to/from family and friends IS important, but, when faced
with a loss of everything or nearly everything in the BASIC NEEDS
FOR SURVIVAL listing, it is way down on the importance priority.

For tens of thousands of humans in Louisiana and Mississippi, the
basic needs for survival are NEEDED NOW. Most don't have a single
one of the basic needs now and none of those can be supplied by a
radio. Local aid people have to handle that, up-close and
personal, ON THE SCENE. Now radio communications CAN be of
service to those local aid people, coordinating their activities
and delivery/distribution of needed supplies/shelter. Such radio
communications is presently being handled by radio facilities that
survived the hurricane and following flooding. Maybe THAT is
where amateur radios (that also survived the hurricane and flooding)
can help. "Health and welfare messages" just wouldn't be on a
disaster victim's immediate needs right now.

True to a point, but there's also been no shortage of victims making
an efffort to let others know they are safe. Not every victim there is
only inward focused on their own basic needs.

We need to put things in perspective...and rationally try to
imagine the plight of victims who have lost almost ALL of their
basic survival necessities.

Agreed...and the only point I am trying to make is
that amateur radio can and is oproviding help for
communications. Whatever help that may be, it is still
of value and would not necessarily be happening by
other (commercial/military/whatever) services because
ALL the help resources are already maxed to their limit.

Bill K2UNK

Bill Sohl wrote:



I must ask... What's the difference? Does
it mean that ham radio isn't providing helpful and needed
additional communications?

Lennieboy would like to belive that with all his little heart, but the
fact remains...ham radio has and is at this very moment providing much
need emergency comms in the disaster area. Ham radio continues to be a
very helpful tool in disaster emergency comms, much to the chagrin of
the likes of lennieboy and frankieboy.

Cmdr Buzz Corey wrote:
Bill Sohl wrote:



I must ask... What's the difference? Does
it mean that ham radio isn't providing helpful and needed
additional communications?

Lennieboy would like to belive that with all his little heart, but the
fact remains...ham radio has and is at this very moment providing much
need emergency comms in the disaster area. Ham radio continues to be a
very helpful tool in disaster emergency comms, much to the chagrin of
the likes of lennieboy and frankieboy.

more making up stuff again

The mobile unit I was refering to is OBVIOUS to anyone that has Ham Radio
Emergency Com experience. This totally elliminates dip**** Lennie. But to
help the dummy out....they drove in from Anniston Alabama.....and to help
him out....yes they had a proper pass.

Lennie, just sit down on your hands and shut up. You have NOTHING to
contribute, as usual.

Dan/W4NTI

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
ink.net...

wrote in message
oups.com...
From: Dan/W4NTI on Sep 1, 5:26 pm

I hope you folks can give a listen to HF during this disaster. It is
amazing how Ham Radio has stepped up to the plate and is providing
Communications where the Commercial infrastructure is destroyed.

"Commercial infrastructure" is defined as anything non-amateur?

Agreed.

Strange, I still see rather "commercial" and "military"
infrastructure radios very much at work on TV news, along
with lots and lots of "infrastructure" personnel.

Agreed, but there's no doubt that hams are assisting in the overall
process. Such assistance at least lightens the communications
load on the remaining commercial infrastructure.

Flood conditions high enough to inundate "commercial
infrastructure" equipment will ALSO inundate amateur
equipment and render it useless as well.

Maybe, maybe not....depending on the portability of that
equipment and how/where the ham actually has/had it when disastor stuck.

The relief efforts in Louisiana and Mississippi are being
handled by MANY, MANY different volunteers and MOST of them
do not appear to be or are identified as amateur radio
operators.

7290, 7285, 14.265, 3935, 3873, 3965 and many others I am sure.

Those networks are operating OUTSIDE the flood regions,
have NOT been inundated with flood waters.

But they are delivering messages to and from the flood areas.

I'm listening to a young lady right now with the Baptist feeding unit in
Biloxi Mississippi on the Alabama net frequency of 3965 passing messages
to
family and friends outside of the disaster area.

Then that young lady is NOT under water and has gotten to a
location that is NOT under water or destroyed (somehow, you
have not specified that transport) and has the help of
an amateur radio station set up for this purpose on DRY land
(some place unspecified).

I must ask... What's the difference? Does
it mean that ham radio isn't providing helpful and needed
additional communications?

Such as "Daddy were alright" Don't worry have not been able to call
before.

That is excellent service that is provided (partly) by amateur
radio. "Daddy" somehow has gotten the news and that probably
is completed over a telephone circuit...a telephone circuit of
the evil "commercial infrastructure" that was NOT destroyed.

Again, the fact that hams played a part is all that matters if
the communication between father/family could not have
otherwise been completed.

SNIP

Cheers,
To those hams in the thick of the emergency...well done
and keep up the good work.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

wrote:
From: Dan/W4NTI on Sep 1, 5:26 pm


I hope you folks can give a listen to HF during this disaster. It is
amazing how Ham Radio has stepped up to the plate and is providing
Communications where the Commercial infrastructure is destroyed.


"Commercial infrastructure" is defined as anything non-amateur?

Strange, I still see rather "commercial" and "military"
infrastructure radios very much at work on TV news, along
with lots and lots of "infrastructure" personnel.

Flood conditions high enough to inundate "commercial
infrastructure" equipment will ALSO inundate amateur
equipment and render it useless as well.

You truly are an idiot lennyboy.

"Cmdr Buzz Corey" wrote in message
...
wrote:
From: Dan/W4NTI on Sep 1, 5:26 pm


I hope you folks can give a listen to HF during this disaster. It is
amazing how Ham Radio has stepped up to the plate and is providing
Communications where the Commercial infrastructure is destroyed.


"Commercial infrastructure" is defined as anything non-amateur?

Strange, I still see rather "commercial" and "military"
infrastructure radios very much at work on TV news, along
with lots and lots of "infrastructure" personnel.

Flood conditions high enough to inundate "commercial
infrastructure" equipment will ALSO inundate amateur
equipment and render it useless as well.

You truly are an idiot lennyboy.

Exactly my point about Lennie. He has absolutely no idea what ham radio
does and is capable of. So why do we even read what he says?

Dan/W4NTI

wrote:

And this is for you Len Anderson......take your anti-ham crap and shove it.


Tsk, tsk, tsk. I've NEVER been "anti-ham." What I HAVE been
against is the morse code test for any amateur radio license.
What I HAVE been against is the braggadoccio of morse code mode
over and above any other mode in effectiveness. What I HAVE
been against is that morse code mode is the "only" mode possible
in emergency communications.

And just were do you see anywhere that Morse code is being pushed
forward as the only means of communication in this disaster? Has anyone
even mentioned Morse code being used in emergency communication in this
disaster? All the emergency ham frequencies I have seen listed, where
the emergency comms are taking place, are in the voice portion of the
bands. You really do need to try to keep up lennie, maybe you meds need
changing.

And what I HAVE been against is all you PCTA emotional retards
who think/state/live the notion that U.S. amateur radio is ONLY
about morse code mode, morsemanship, and neglecting the majority
of licensed radio amateurs who do NOT agree with you waving the
ham flag as ONLY yours and ONLY that of the morsemen.

And just what in the sam hill does this have to do with the hams that
are now providing much needed emergency comms in this disaster?
You are a real first class dip-wit lennieboy.

"Cmdr Buzz Corey" wrote in message
...
wrote:

And this is for you Len Anderson......take your anti-ham crap and shove
it.


Tsk, tsk, tsk. I've NEVER been "anti-ham." What I HAVE been
against is the morse code test for any amateur radio license.
What I HAVE been against is the braggadoccio of morse code mode
over and above any other mode in effectiveness. What I HAVE
been against is that morse code mode is the "only" mode possible
in emergency communications.

And just were do you see anywhere that Morse code is being pushed forward
as the only means of communication in this disaster? Has anyone even
mentioned Morse code being used in emergency communication in this
disaster? All the emergency ham frequencies I have seen listed, where the
emergency comms are taking place, are in the voice portion of the bands.
You really do need to try to keep up lennie, maybe you meds need changing.

And what I HAVE been against is all you PCTA emotional retards
who think/state/live the notion that U.S. amateur radio is ONLY
about morse code mode, morsemanship, and neglecting the majority
of licensed radio amateurs who do NOT agree with you waving the
ham flag as ONLY yours and ONLY that of the morsemen.

And just what in the sam hill does this have to do with the hams that are
now providing much needed emergency comms in this disaster?
You are a real first class dip-wit lennieboy.

I didn't even mention this....but I passed several Health and Welfare
messages via CW on the regular nets.

Dan/W4NTI

wrote in message
oups.com...
From: Dan/W4NTI on Sep 1, 5:26 pm

Nothing worth wasting bandwith on from the idiot on the left coast.

plonk

Dan/W4NTI