Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

Movies and novels, etc often take artistic license with the facts in order
to produce more impact. That is true of both dramas and comedies. So any
one who relies on such items for their history is going to be using a far
amount of misinformation. Even the news media takes artistic license by the
selection of what facts and speculation to report since they are going for
ratings.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Dee, excellent, excellent post.

That must be why some in this group constantly quote british comedy as
if it were somehow relevant to matters at hand. They get their history
from Monty Python. Telling is their admiration for the contribution(s)
that the ARS made in WWII. Quitepuzzling, since the ARS was shut down
by the US government at the time.

Many radio amateurs made their war contributions as radio operators.
Many became electronics and radio instructors. Many were involved in
radio design and manufacture. Many became involved with Civil Defense
and WERS (War Emergency Radio Service). There is a large amount of
documentation of the efforts of radio amateurs during the Second World
War. Have you read any of it?

Whoa! Talk about brilliant minds! Our posts hit at the same
time...But when I re-read mine, I accidentally "deleted" a paragraph
when I had changed a sentence I wrote prior to posting!

What I had said was that Brian's demonization of some of us who
make reference to contributions made during WW2 doesn't stand the
litmus test of objectivity. The "War Department" and other agencies of
the era went on record as praising the ARRL and it's members for the
contributions you cited, Dave...

Not to forget the sacrifices many Amateurs of the era made on the
battlefield. Many Amateiurs were also sought out for thier skills to
help "flesh out" the military communications infrastructure as
operators, instructors, crypto-operators, Morse intercept operators,
etc etc etc...

So...as I was asking Brian, what's "Quitepuzzling" is is continued
affiliation with Amateur Radio despite his obvious contempt for fellow
Amateurs.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:

That must be why some in this group constantly quote british comedy as
if it were somehow relevant to matters at hand. They get their history
from Monty Python. Telling is their admiration for the contribution(s)
that the ARS made in WWII. Quitepuzzling, since the ARS was shut down
by the US government at the time.


Many radio amateurs made their war contributions as radio operators.

And a ham was almost assured of becoming a radio operator, because of
his knowledge and skill and that included the skill of the ability to
operate CW.

From: Dave Heil on Thurs, Oct 13 2005 8:19 am

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

Movies and novels, etc often take artistic license with the facts in order
to produce more impact. That is true of both dramas and comedies. So any
one who relies on such items for their history is going to be using a far
amount of misinformation. Even the news media takes artistic license by the
selection of what facts and speculation to report since they are going for
ratings.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee, excellent, excellent post.

That must be why some in this group constantly quote british comedy as
if it were somehow relevant to matters at hand. They get their history
from Monty Python. Telling is their admiration for the contribution(s)
that the ARS made in WWII. Quitepuzzling, since the ARS was shut down
by the US government at the time.

Many radio amateurs made their war contributions as radio operators.

As did all the PCTAs in here, valiantly fighting the brave
fight with a morse key in each holster.

It would be fun to read of their stories, tales of heroism,
etc., while working for the OSS deep behind the lines and
sending intel back to Hq. I can compare them to those I
heard back in the 1950s from Signalmen who were actually
there! :-)

Many became electronics and radio instructors.

Right...and how MANY is "many?" More than five?

Was the MIT Radiation Lab built up on a base of amateurs?

Were there NO electronics professionals anywhere in the U.S.
electronics industry at that time?

What do you think Bell Labs in NJ had? A little shack
just working on telephones?

What about the second-highest priority of manufacture in
World War 2, right behind the Manhattan Project? That was
quartz crystal unit manufacture...a million a month in the
last three years of WW2.

Many were involved in radio design and manufacture.

Riiiight...all hams knew everything there was to know about
radar, microwaves, sonobuoys, VHF and UHF radio relay, and
primitive television used in the first guided bombs?

Locate Lewyt Vacuum Cleaner Comapny and find out their
history...they built lots of BIG HF transmitters during
WW2! Really. BC-339s with 1 KW RF out in HF and BC-340s
with 10 KW RF out in HF. Said so on lots of nameplates.

Many became involved with Civil Defense
and WERS (War Emergency Radio Service).

Again, how MANY is "many?" Were there any AIR ATTACKS on the
United States then? [exactly one case of a Japanese
submarine firing a couple rounds on California, hitting very
little] [Hawaii wasn't a state back then, remember]

My father-in-law was an "air raid warden" in his neighborhood
some 900+ miles inland from the east coast, about 2000 miles
inland from the west coast. About all that was accomplished
with those air raid drills was conservation of electricity
by turning off all non-essential lights.

Tell us all about CD and WERS, old timer. I'm sure the kids
in here will glory in your stories. I was a kid myself back
then and thought it real exciting to hear all those stories
of military life.

There is a large amount of
documentation of the efforts of radio amateurs during the Second World
War. Have you read any of it?

Lots and lots of it available from the ARRL. Too bad they don't
mention all the NON-amateur contributions in radio...or even
that the major communications mode of the U.S. military back in
WW2 was by TTY, not morse code...as it continued into the post-
War Two period. Western Electric Company made lots and lots of
NON-morse communications equipment...they of the Bell conglomerate
and not at all being amateur about what they did.

But...the ARRL is the "only true" source of "radio history" isn't
it? Always "telling the truth" and omitting nothing, right?

Tell us your stories, old timer. They are always such a treat
on how you saved the country for democracy during WW2.

Then you can insert the "PCTA truth" of how "all" radio ops
"must know morse code" in order to be "good radio ops" and how
anyone that doesn't love, honor, cherish and obey the morse
creed is "hating all hams" of today. [which is what it will all
boil down to...as usual]

Have Jimmie Noserve tell us all about Washington Army Radio
[WAR callsign] at Fort Detrick and how ACAN operated. He will
know because he thinks he was THERE or something. Have Dudly
tell us about the Montezuma halls and the beaches of Tripoli
as he valiantly fought side by side with other ham heroes in
the African campaign of '43. Wonderful stories and tales!

Above all else, stress that anyone who doesn't like/love
morsemanship of 60 years ago now HATES ALL HAMS and "dishonors"
them ALL by not parroting the holy ham history output of ARRL
about World War Two.

wrote:



Were there any AIR ATTACKS on the
United States then?

Sure was.

Guess you forgot about the Japanese balloon bomb offensive where some
9,000 bomb carrying ballons were launched to be carried over the US by
prevailing winds. Maybe a 1,000 reached the US but only 285 incidences
were reported, some as far away as Michigan.

K4YZ wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

Movies and novels, etc often take artistic license with the facts in order
to produce more impact. That is true of both dramas and comedies. So any
one who relies on such items for their history is going to be using a far
amount of misinformation. Even the news media takes artistic license by the
selection of what facts and speculation to report since they are going for
ratings.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee, excellent, excellent post.

That must be why some in this group constantly quote british comedy as
if it were somehow relevant to matters at hand. They get their history
from Monty Python. Telling is their admiration for the contribution(s)
that the ARS made in WWII. Quitepuzzling, since the ARS was shut down
by the US government at the time.

Many radio amateurs made their war contributions as radio operators.
Many became electronics and radio instructors. Many were involved in
radio design and manufacture. Many became involved with Civil Defense
and WERS (War Emergency Radio Service). There is a large amount of
documentation of the efforts of radio amateurs during the Second World
War. Have you read any of it?

Whoa! Talk about brilliant minds! Our posts hit at the same
time...But when I re-read mine, I accidentally "deleted" a paragraph
when I had changed a sentence I wrote prior to posting!

What I had said was that Brian's demonization of some of us who
make reference to contributions made during WW2 doesn't stand the
litmus test of objectivity. The "War Department" and other agencies of
the era went on record as praising the ARRL and it's members for the
contributions you cited, Dave...

If I made contributions to dental hygeine during any war, it would not
be as an amateur radio operator. You guys, who constantly rail against
persons having commercial and military radio experience, should know
that whatever those amateurs did during WWII were not doing it as
amateurs.

Unless you are now adopting a wider view of what constitutes radio
knowledge. Is that what you're doing? Hmmmmm?

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

Movies and novels, etc often take artistic license with the facts in order
to produce more impact. That is true of both dramas and comedies. So any
one who relies on such items for their history is going to be using a far
amount of misinformation. Even the news media takes artistic license by the
selection of what facts and speculation to report since they are going for
ratings.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee, excellent, excellent post.

We start out agreeing...

That must be why some in this group constantly quote british comedy as
if it were somehow relevant to matters at hand. They get their history
from Monty Python. Telling is their admiration for the contribution(s)
that the ARS made in WWII. Quitepuzzling, since the ARS was shut down.

Then comes your demonization.

Question, Brian...: Why do you remain an Amateur Radio licensee?

You're on a "need to know" basis where that is concerned.

I ask this since the only people you seem to "click" with clearly hate
Amateur Radio and it reflects in your own posts. So why maintain the
"relationship" with people you clearly disdain?

Steve, K4YZ

My disdain is for people who are two-faced. People who incessantly
exercise a double-standard in RRAP. People who claim that knowledge of
military and commercial comms is NOT a knowledge of radio, or that such
knowledge cannot lend itself to amateur radio. Except when they want
to loft amateur radio up as the source for military radio knowledge
during WWII.

Best of luck.

wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

Movies and novels, etc often take artistic license with the facts in order
to produce more impact. That is true of both dramas and comedies. So any
one who relies on such items for their history is going to be using a far
amount of misinformation. Even the news media takes artistic license by the
selection of what facts and speculation to report since they are going for
ratings.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee, excellent, excellent post.

That must be why some in this group constantly quote british comedy as
if it were somehow relevant to matters at hand. They get their history
from Monty Python. Telling is their admiration for the contribution(s)
that the ARS made in WWII. Quitepuzzling, since the ARS was shut down
by the US government at the time.

Many radio amateurs made their war contributions as radio operators.
Many became electronics and radio instructors. Many were involved in
radio design and manufacture. Many became involved with Civil Defense
and WERS (War Emergency Radio Service). There is a large amount of
documentation of the efforts of radio amateurs during the Second World
War. Have you read any of it?

Whoa! Talk about brilliant minds! Our posts hit at the same
time...But when I re-read mine, I accidentally "deleted" a paragraph
when I had changed a sentence I wrote prior to posting!

What I had said was that Brian's demonization of some of us who
make reference to contributions made during WW2 doesn't stand the
litmus test of objectivity. The "War Department" and other agencies of
the era went on record as praising the ARRL and it's members for the
contributions you cited, Dave...

If I made contributions to dental hygeine during any war, it would not
be as an amateur radio operator. You guys, who constantly rail against
persons having commercial and military radio experience, should know
that whatever those amateurs did during WWII were not doing it as
amateurs.

Unless you are now adopting a wider view of what constitutes radio
knowledge. Is that what you're doing? Hmmmmm?

None of us "rail against" persons with commercial or military
experience BECAUSE of that experience, Brian...We DO "rail against"
people who have NO experience in AMATEUR RADIO who then come to an
Amateur Radio forum and presume to tell us how we should be "doing"
things.

Your buddy on the liberal coast is the ONLY one here who routinely
"rails against" anyone based upon RADIO (ie technical and theoretical)
experience. Period. His attacks on me based upon having been an Armed
Forces Avionics Tech and Jim, N2EY, for his various projects are
point-in-case.

No one doubts that Lennie knows how a radio works or that he was
an adequate bench technician.

However he has, to this date, zero-point-zero hours of experience
as a licensed Radio Amateur. He is not now nor ever has been a radio
OPERATOR as it pertains to Amateur Radio practice. He has
zero-point-zero hours of experience in emergency communications. His
list ot "zeros" is lengthy, yet he pretends to be an authority on
Amateur Radio policies and/or practices.

He's nothing of the sort.

Your adaptation of his diversion about how "we" allegedly "diss"
him along some ill-perceived lines of how radios work or RF propagates
is assinine.

Lastly, the original argument was about contributions that
Amatuers made during WW2. All of the references I made were to
electronics-related fields for which AMATEURS were SPECIFCIALLY sought
and recruited due to thier already-demonstrated competency or skill in
radiocommunications.

No one, myself included, ever stated that thier licensure was the
end-all or sole reason for thier employment or service.

Steve, K4YZ

From: Cmd Buzz Corey on Thurs 13 Oct 2005 20:33

wrote:

Were there any AIR ATTACKS on the
United States then?

Sure was.

Riiiiight...all launched by Japanese RADIO AMATEURS?

Guess you forgot about the Japanese balloon bomb offensive where some
9,000 bomb carrying ballons were launched to be carried over the US by
prevailing winds. Maybe a 1,000 reached the US but only 285 incidences
were reported, some as far away as Michigan.

Riiiiight...all REPORTED by American RADIO AMATEURS on
"balloon watch" duty? [published in WW2 ARRL bulletins?]

"As far away as Michigan?" :-) Do you consider the state of
Michigan as "DX?" :-)

I didn't "forget" about those non-fatal "balloon 'attacks'", I
just IGNORED them. They made "zero-point-zero" effect on the
WW2 production of the United States of America.

Buzziebaby, you just leave the "history" of RADIO AMATEURS at
war to the ARRL, Davie the Heil, and Jimmie Noserve. THEY were
THERE and know far better than you about the "war years."

Jimmie is the group's guru on Air and Space activity in the
US of A (if not around the world) and is ultimate authority
on what is what in Air and Space. He KNOWS stuff...after
reading so much about it. Dudly has "zero-point-zero"
experience as either amateur or professional in SPACE, which is
about the same as you (your black-and-white TV show being
cancelled back in the 50s). Davie the Heil "worked with NASA"
someplace (he said once in here)...another Space "expert."
Listen to your betters.

Try to recall what this newsgroup is about, okay? [RADIO
AMATEUR POLICY, not some "war history" blabbering by lil
kiddies who weren't even born until after WW2]

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

Movies and novels, etc often take artistic license with the facts in order
to produce more impact. That is true of both dramas and comedies. So any
one who relies on such items for their history is going to be using a far
amount of misinformation. Even the news media takes artistic license by the
selection of what facts and speculation to report since they are going for
ratings.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee, excellent, excellent post.

That must be why some in this group constantly quote british comedy as
if it were somehow relevant to matters at hand. They get their history
from Monty Python. Telling is their admiration for the contribution(s)
that the ARS made in WWII. Quitepuzzling, since the ARS was shut down
by the US government at the time.

Many radio amateurs made their war contributions as radio operators.
Many became electronics and radio instructors. Many were involved in
radio design and manufacture. Many became involved with Civil Defense
and WERS (War Emergency Radio Service). There is a large amount of
documentation of the efforts of radio amateurs during the Second World
War. Have you read any of it?

Whoa! Talk about brilliant minds! Our posts hit at the same
time...But when I re-read mine, I accidentally "deleted" a paragraph
when I had changed a sentence I wrote prior to posting!

What I had said was that Brian's demonization of some of us who
make reference to contributions made during WW2 doesn't stand the
litmus test of objectivity. The "War Department" and other agencies of
the era went on record as praising the ARRL and it's members for the
contributions you cited, Dave...

If I made contributions to dental hygeine during any war, it would not
be as an amateur radio operator. You guys, who constantly rail against
persons having commercial and military radio experience, should know
that whatever those amateurs did during WWII were not doing it as
amateurs.

Unless you are now adopting a wider view of what constitutes radio
knowledge. Is that what you're doing? Hmmmmm?

None of us "rail against" persons with commercial or military
experience BECAUSE of that experience, Brian...

Not true.

We DO "rail against"
people who have NO experience in AMATEUR RADIO who then come to an
Amateur Radio forum and presume to tell us how we should be "doing"
things.

He doesn't "presume." He does so.

Your buddy on the liberal coast is the ONLY one here who routinely
"rails against" anyone based upon RADIO (ie technical and theoretical)
experience.

Not true.

Period.

Longhand punctuation?

His attacks on me based upon having been an Armed
Forces Avionics Tech and Jim, N2EY, for his various projects are
point-in-case.

And you presume to tell Len how he should be doing things.

No one doubts that Lennie knows how a radio works or that he was
an adequate bench technician.

Not true. How many lies will you rack up in this single post?

However he has, to this date, zero-point-zero hours of experience
as a licensed Radio Amateur.

Nor does the Chairman of the FCC.

He is not now nor ever has been a radio
OPERATOR as it pertains to Amateur Radio practice. He has
zero-point-zero hours of experience in emergency communications. His
list ot "zeros" is lengthy, yet he pretends to be an authority on
Amateur Radio policies and/or practices.

Ditto the Chaiman of the FCC and his numerous staffers. Soon, he's
going to "presume" to tell you how it is, both on policy and practice.

He's nothing of the sort.

Your adaptation of his diversion about how "we" allegedly "diss"
him along some ill-perceived lines of how radios work or RF propagates
is assinine.

Not true. Lie #4.

Lastly, the original argument was about contributions that
Amatuers made during WW2. All of the references I made were to
electronics-related fields for which AMATEURS were SPECIFCIALLY sought
and recruited due to thier already-demonstrated competency or skill in
radiocommunications.

Hmmmm? There's that damned one way valve again. Amateurs can jump in
and fill military and commercial radio roles, but commercial and
military radio Ops can have absolutely NO knowledge of amateur comms!

Hi, hi! Talk about an Iron Curtain! Your brain is on "diode."

No one, myself included, ever stated that thier licensure was the
end-all or sole reason for thier employment or service.

Steve, K4YZ

Cronyism and Nepotism are as good reasons as any. You could do worse
by having someone who actually knows something about RF making comments
on the ARS.

Best of Luck.

wrote:


Riiiiight...all REPORTED by American RADIO AMATEURS on
"balloon watch" duty? [published in WW2 ARRL bulletins?]

"As far away as Michigan?" :-) Do you consider the state of
Michigan as "DX?" :-)

I didn't "forget" about those non-fatal "balloon 'attacks'", I
just IGNORED them. They made "zero-point-zero" effect on the
WW2 production of the United States of America.

Translation: "In my failing memory did forget about those AIR ATTACKS by
the balloon bombs and hate being corrected so I will claim I IGNORED
them and flail away at the person who showed me up."

You asked, "Were there any AIR ATTACKS on the United States then?"

The answer is, "yes", the balloon bombs were AIR ATTACKS on the USofA. I
suppose you think the balloon bombs came via boat. Get the kid next door
to explain to you what a balloon is.


Too bad lenniepoo, even with the dumbing down of the written test and
the eventual elimination of the code test, you still won't be able to
get a license.