"I've always had trouble with integrating "youngsters"
in what is a primarily _adult_ skill/technique recreational
activity."

- Len Anderson

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...e=source&hl=en

wrote:
"I've always had trouble with integrating "youngsters"
in what is a primarily _adult_ skill/technique recreational
activity."

- Len Anderson

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...e=source&hl=en

James has been busy.

wrote in message
oups.com...
"I've always had trouble with integrating "youngsters"
in what is a primarily _adult_ skill/technique recreational
activity."

- Len Anderson

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...e=source&hl=en


The integration of youngsters into adult activities is one of the beauties
of ham radio. This is one of the few opportunities that they have to learn
by direct participation on an equal footing with adults. This opportunity
has been increasingly rare in modern times. The young normally tend to be
isolated to non-adult activities and the adults are there simply as
supervisors, trainers, or "taxis."

It is truly a wonderful thing to see the youngsters, oldsters, and those
in-between working together on projects.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Len Anderson wrote the following quote:

"I've always had trouble with integrating "youngsters"
in what is a primarily _adult_ skill/technique recreational
activity."

- Len Anderson

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...e=source&hl=en


The integration of youngsters into adult activities is one of the beauties
of ham radio.

Agreed!

This is one of the few opportunities that they have to learn
by direct participation on an equal footing with adults.

And it has always been so, at least in the USA.

This opportunity
has been increasingly rare in modern times. The young normally tend to be
isolated to non-adult activities and the adults are there simply as
supervisors, trainers, or "taxis."

It is truly a wonderful thing to see the youngsters, oldsters, and those
in-between working together on projects.

It's also a wonderful thing to hear people of all ages on the ham
bands,
working each other regardless of age, gender, race, religion, etc.,
without prejudice or classification by same. Morse Code and the
"data modes" are better for this than voice.


73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Len Anderson wrote the following quote:

"I've always had trouble with integrating "youngsters"
in what is a primarily _adult_ skill/technique recreational
activity."

- Len Anderson

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...e=source&hl=en


The integration of youngsters into adult activities is one of the beauties
of ham radio.

Agreed!

This is one of the few opportunities that they have to learn
by direct participation on an equal footing with adults.

And it has always been so, at least in the USA.

This opportunity
has been increasingly rare in modern times. The young normally tend to be
isolated to non-adult activities and the adults are there simply as
supervisors, trainers, or "taxis."

It is truly a wonderful thing to see the youngsters, oldsters, and those
in-between working together on projects.

It's also a wonderful thing to hear people of all ages on the ham
bands,
working each other regardless of age, gender, race, religion, etc.,
without prejudice or classification by same. Morse Code and the
"data modes" are better for this than voice.


73 de Jim, N2EY

Obviously you've never heard of the Boy Scouts of America nor the Merit
Badge program.

Best of luck catching up to the world as it presently exists.

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Len Anderson wrote the following quote:

"I've always had trouble with integrating "youngsters"
in what is a primarily _adult_ skill/technique recreational
activity."

- Len Anderson

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...e=source&hl=en


The integration of youngsters into adult activities is one of the
beauties
of ham radio.

Agreed!

This is one of the few opportunities that they have to learn
by direct participation on an equal footing with adults.

And it has always been so, at least in the USA.

This opportunity
has been increasingly rare in modern times. The young normally tend to
be
isolated to non-adult activities and the adults are there simply as
supervisors, trainers, or "taxis."

It is truly a wonderful thing to see the youngsters, oldsters, and
those
in-between working together on projects.

It's also a wonderful thing to hear people of all ages on the ham
bands,
working each other regardless of age, gender, race, religion, etc.,
without prejudice or classification by same. Morse Code and the
"data modes" are better for this than voice.


73 de Jim, N2EY

Obviously you've never heard of the Boy Scouts of America nor the Merit
Badge program.

Best of luck catching up to the world as it presently exists.


The Boy Scouts is a youth activity program led and supervised by the adults.
It is not an activity where the young are integrated into an adult activity
and participating on an equal footing. The Scoutmaster leads the troop. On
the other hand, in amateur radio, the 14 year old Extra can be a control op
at HF while the 60 year old Tech cannot. I.e. In ham radio, the license is
the controlling factor while age is irrelevant.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Len Anderson wrote the following quote:

"I've always had trouble with integrating "youngsters"
in what is a primarily _adult_ skill/technique recreational
activity."

- Len Anderson

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...e=source&hl=en


The integration of youngsters into adult activities is one of the
beauties
of ham radio.

Agreed!

This is one of the few opportunities that they have to learn
by direct participation on an equal footing with adults.

And it has always been so, at least in the USA.

This opportunity
has been increasingly rare in modern times. The young normally tend to
be
isolated to non-adult activities and the adults are there simply as
supervisors, trainers, or "taxis."

It is truly a wonderful thing to see the youngsters, oldsters, and
those
in-between working together on projects.

It's also a wonderful thing to hear people of all ages on the ham
bands,
working each other regardless of age, gender, race, religion, etc.,
without prejudice or classification by same. Morse Code and the
"data modes" are better for this than voice.


73 de Jim, N2EY

Obviously you've never heard of the Boy Scouts of America nor the Merit
Badge program.

Best of luck catching up to the world as it presently exists.


The Boy Scouts is a youth activity program led and supervised by the adults.
It is not an activity where the young are integrated into an adult activity
and participating on an equal footing. The Scoutmaster leads the troop. On
the other hand, in amateur radio, the 14 year old Extra can be a control op
at HF while the 60 year old Tech cannot. I.e. In ham radio, the license is
the controlling factor while age is irrelevant.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

So you think the Scoutmaster is the Merit Badge Coundelor?

Why are those modes "better" than voice?

Seems that a voice conversation, under almost every circumstance, would lead to a richer exchange of information and better interperson understanding than either Morse or "data" modes. Voices naturally convey emotion and mood, allow an almost continuous range of emphasis, and can use different inflection to add subtle but important syntactic variations to many words. None of this is possible in Morse or "data" modes, except in some very crude ways such as emoticons.

The Man in the Maze
QRV at Baboquivari Peak, AZ

Iitoi wrote:
Wrote:

It's also a wonderful thing to hear people of all
ages on the ham
bands, working each other regardless of age, gender,
race, religion,
etc., without prejudice or classification by same.

Morse Code and the
"data modes" are better for this than voice.

Why are those modes "better" than voice?

I think you misunderstand.

Voice modes give all sorts of information about the speaker's
age, gender, ethnicity, etc., which are not immediately
obvious with Morse Code or "data modes".

Seems that a voice conversation, under almost every
circumstance, would
lead to a richer exchange of information and better interperson
understanding than either Morse or "data" modes.

Why?

Voice modes can cause the listener to focus more on who is talking and
how they are talking, rather than what is being said.

Voices naturally
convey emotion and mood, allow an almost continuous range of
emphasis,
and can use different inflection to add subtle but important
syntactic
variations to many words.

Those features can also be a weakness of voice modes.

None of this is possible in Morse or "data"
modes, except in some very crude ways such as emoticons.

Which means the sender must concentrate on what is sent, not how it is
sent.

73 de Jim, N2EY

No, I understand very well. In fact, that's my point. Voice conversations inherently provide more information, just as you point out.

???????????

"who is talking" and "how they are talking" are often (if not always) as important in understanding "what is being said".

Consider this question: "How much should I take off?" Suppose the questioner was your barber discussing your hair, or a romantic partner discussing her attire, or car salesperson discussing price discounts. Clearly the meaning of that query is wildly different depending on "who is talking and how they are talking".

Since those factors serve to amplify and refine the simple "bare" words, adding a layer of "richness", they are a strength (not a weakness) of voice conversation over the terse exchange of Morse or "data" signals.

In summary, "What is being said, who is saying it, and how they are saying it" will always lead to a richer conversation than just "what is being said".

The Man in the Maze
QRV at Baboquivari Peak, AZ