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Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
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Where's the beef?
wrote First, it assumes that hams with the various license classes stay only in their respective subbands, in that you won't find Extras in the Advanced and General parts, or Advanceds in the General parts, etc. But that's not how it works. You've got it all bass-ackwards, Jim. My "experiment" presumes that you won't find Advanced in the Extra portion of the band, and you won't find Generals in either the Advanced or Extra segments. Thus, if incentive licensing is working, there ought to be a noticeable difference in operator/technical skills evident between the opposite ends of the band segments. As you so ably point out, that difference doesn't seem to exist. I rest my case. No benefits of incentive licensing are observed in the real world. wrote I would expect less sophisticated discussions in the Advanced/Extra portions simply because the Generals may be more apt to be seeking knowledge where the Extras may be inclined to relax. Dee, you should submit this as the funniest-rrap-paragraph-of-the-month. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
"Dee Flint" wrote in message . .. "KØHB" wrote in message k.net... "Dee Flint" wrote One of the elements is self training and technical knowlegde. You encourage that by using increased privileges (spectrum and power) to get people to study and take additional tests. If it were working, it would be evident on the air. But I'll encourage you to try a little practical experiment to see if you can detect the results in the real world. You'll need the following materials for the experiment: 1. A reasonable sensitive receiver, hooked to a working antenna. 2. A blindfold. 3. A set of earphones. 4. No extreme hearing impairments. 5. A comfortable chair. Seat your self at the receiver, and tune it to the TOP of a popular band with good propagation to the USA, probably 40 or 75 meters. Don the earphones and plug them in. Set the receiver RF gain full open and the AF gain at a comfortable level. Now place your blindfold over your eyes. Slowly tune the receiver down the band. If incentive licensing is working, when you cross over the General/Advanced boundary and again when you cross the Advanced/Extra boundary, you should detect a noticeable increase in the "training and technical knowlege" of the operators because of better/cleaner signals, more sophisticated technical discussions, and other evidence of better training and technical knowlege. If your ear does NOT detect this sort of evidence as you tune across those boundaries, then you can conclude (as I have) that incentive licensing is an abject failure. 73, de Hans, K0HB As Jim has already so ably answered, you cannot tell that sort of thing at all. There is no way to tell whether that signal is better/cleaner since propagation variables can impact signal quality too. There is no way to tell if a better signal is due to better knowledge or that the particular ham chooses to have his equipment maintained by a third party. I would expect less sophisticated discussions in the Advanced/Extra portions simply because the Generals may be more apt to be seeking knowledge where the Extras may be inclined to relax. I would expect better OPERATING skills, a higher quality of language behavior and perhaps more technical discussions...but forget even the technical discussions....the behavior and operating skill differences are just not there. Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
"Bill Sohl" wrote As Jim has already so ably answered, you cannot tell that sort of thing at all. There is no way to tell whether that signal is better/cleaner since propagation variables can impact signal quality too. There is no way to tell if a better signal is due to better knowledge or that the particular ham chooses to have his equipment maintained by a third party. I would expect less sophisticated discussions in the Advanced/Extra portions simply because the Generals may be more apt to be seeking knowledge where the Extras may be inclined to relax. I would expect better OPERATING skills, a higher quality of language behavior and perhaps more technical discussions...but forget even the technical discussions....the behavior and operating skill differences are just not there. They're relaxing, Bill. |
One Class of Amateur Radio License?
On 13 Dec 2005 09:25:02 -0800, "K4YZ" wrote:
wrote: Jimmie just said "major typo alert!" He acknowledged a MAJOR mistake in posting as a "typographical error" but that is apparently okay for him to do. It's not okay for any of us to do it...if we do it, we get reminders of it for the next five years, negative critique, accusations of "not following up on 'promises,'" the whole magilla. The fact of the matter is, Lennie, that more often than not, you either refuse to admit your errors, or even worse, defend them with lengthy, windy pontifications intended to obfuscate them. Jim's character doesn't seem to permit him to act that way. I see you're still using diminutives that aren't directed at you. Of course your sock puppet does nothing to suggest otherwise to you, yet presumes to chastise others for not engaging in such conduct. What's that term you're always using...."double standard"...?!?! why are you obsessed with dimutives stevie clearly you are dumb enough to think being called stevie is worse than being called a pedophile (you have said this more or less for months Seems you NCTA "guys" have more than your fair share! (as if there was any doubt.....) Steve, K4YZ everyone should be advised that The following person has been advocating the abuse of elders making false charges of child rape, rape in general forges post and name he may also be making flase reports of abusing other in order to attak and cow his foes he also shows signs of being dangerously unstable STEVEN J ROBESON 151 12TH AVE NW WINCHESTER TN 37398 931-967-6282 _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 140,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
"Bill Sohl" wrote in message nk.net... "Dee Flint" wrote in message . .. "KØHB" wrote in message k.net... "Dee Flint" wrote One of the elements is self training and technical knowlegde. You encourage that by using increased privileges (spectrum and power) to get people to study and take additional tests. If it were working, it would be evident on the air. But I'll encourage you to try a little practical experiment to see if you can detect the results in the real world. You'll need the following materials for the experiment: 1. A reasonable sensitive receiver, hooked to a working antenna. 2. A blindfold. 3. A set of earphones. 4. No extreme hearing impairments. 5. A comfortable chair. Seat your self at the receiver, and tune it to the TOP of a popular band with good propagation to the USA, probably 40 or 75 meters. Don the earphones and plug them in. Set the receiver RF gain full open and the AF gain at a comfortable level. Now place your blindfold over your eyes. Slowly tune the receiver down the band. If incentive licensing is working, when you cross over the General/Advanced boundary and again when you cross the Advanced/Extra boundary, you should detect a noticeable increase in the "training and technical knowlege" of the operators because of better/cleaner signals, more sophisticated technical discussions, and other evidence of better training and technical knowlege. If your ear does NOT detect this sort of evidence as you tune across those boundaries, then you can conclude (as I have) that incentive licensing is an abject failure. 73, de Hans, K0HB As Jim has already so ably answered, you cannot tell that sort of thing at all. There is no way to tell whether that signal is better/cleaner since propagation variables can impact signal quality too. There is no way to tell if a better signal is due to better knowledge or that the particular ham chooses to have his equipment maintained by a third party. I would expect less sophisticated discussions in the Advanced/Extra portions simply because the Generals may be more apt to be seeking knowledge where the Extras may be inclined to relax. I would expect better OPERATING skills, a higher quality of language behavior and perhaps more technical discussions...but forget even the technical discussions....the behavior and operating skill differences are just not there. Cheers, Bill K2UNK Why would you expect a higher quality of language behavior? All amateurs are required to know and adhere to the same rules regardless of license. Language behavior is covered on the Technician test. People with a talent for code will tend to be better than the typical operator regardless of license. Some people, like myself, may choke during a CW ragchew regardless of our CW skill or license level. People who regularly DX will be able to finesse their way into getting the DX station at low power and people who do not regularly DX will have a much rougher time, again regardless of class. What everyone overlooks is that the test is merely the basic required book knowledge expected for each level. Experience is not tested for. The person who goes straight to Extra will have no more experience and no more operating skills than anyone else. However, he/she starts with more book knowledge as a platform to build on. But anyone can choose to gain the same knowledge. They do not have to wait until they are studying for a new license. Plus every amateur is free to pursue improving their skills. The license is a starting point not a stopping point. Actually the place that I see the difference in operating skills is on the VHF bands in the VHF contests. When I review my contacts in those contests, the large majority of them are Extra class operators. They seem to be the ones to have the skill necessary to put together and operate a station suitable to make long distance VHF contacts and the skill to do so. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Where's the beef?
KØHB wrote:
wrote First, it assumes that hams with the various license classes stay only in their respective subbands, in that you won't find Extras in the Advanced and General parts, or Advanceds in the General parts, etc. But that's not how it works. You've got it all bass-ackwards, Jim. No, just the opposite, Hans. My "experiment" presumes that you won't find Advanced in the Extra portion of the band, and you won't find Generals in either the Advanced or Extra segments. And you usually won't! But you *will* find Extras in the Advanced and General parts of the band, and Advanceds in the General part of the band. Thus, if incentive licensing is working, there ought to be a noticeable difference in operator/technical skills evident between the opposite ends of the band segments. That difference, if it exists, would be diluted by the Extras in the Advanced and General sections, and the Advanceds in the General section. Muddies the waters, as it were. There's also the effect of the bandplans. The lower parts of the subbands are often where the DX and DXers hang out, so you hear more pileups and less discussion. Many of the "watering holes" for various interests and modes are intentionally placed in the General sections: AM is near 3885, PSK31 is around 3579, QRP is around 3540, etc. As you so ably point out, that difference doesn't seem to exist. It's interesting that you suggest the experiment on 'phone, not CW ;-) I rest my case. No benefits of incentive licensing are observed in the real world. There are other experiments to try. For example, look in the amateur radio publications - particularly the most technical- and operating-skill-emphasis ones like QEX and NCJ - and see what license classes the authors of the best articles hold. wrote I would expect less sophisticated discussions in the Advanced/Extra portions simply because the Generals may be more apt to be seeking knowledge where the Extras may be inclined to relax. Dee, you should submit this as the funniest-rrap-paragraph-of-the-month. A good one! But lemme tellya what I recall from the late 1960s.... I remember the howling and cussing over the coming of the then-new regs. I was surprised that so many hams that were older and more experienced than I were so upset about having to take more exams. You'd have thought that the Advanced and Extra writtens were EE courses, and that the 20 wpm Morse Code exams were world-class. Or something. But after a bit of listening and questioning, the situation became clear. Most of those complaining had been licensed after the Great Giveaway of Christmas 1952, and had little or no knowledge of how things were before Generals and Conditionals got all privileges. Many of those who complained the loudest had started out as Novices, studied and practiced like mad during their Novice year, and then upgraded to General or Conditional. Once they'd gotten to the General/Conditional level, they basically sat back and considered themselves "fully qualified", and relaxed. What really ticked them off was that FCC was saying there was more to learn! It didn't help their addytood when young squirts like me started showing up with Advanceds and Extras....back when Extras made up less than 2% of US hams.... What was even funnier was when some of the worst complainers and moaners started working towards the Advanced and Extra and found they could pass those exams. They discovered that 20 wasn't all that fast if you actually *used* Morse Code on the air for a while, and that knowing the technical stuff in the books well enough to pass the exams didn't take an EE degree. Soon there were Advanceds and Extras all over the place and it was no big deal. Now the circle is complete... 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
Dee Flint wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: wrote in message ups.com... wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: From: on Dec 7, 5:28 pm wrote: From: Bill Sohl on Dec 6, 6:11 am wrote in message [snip] Is that why the FCC gives ALL power priveleges to their ENTRY LEVEL LICENSEES? Entry level licensees do NOT have all power privileges. Technicians with code are an entry level license. On HF frequencies, they are limited to 200 watts output. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE And 200 watts on VHF/UHF??? |
Where's the beef?
KØHB wrote: wrote First, it assumes that hams with the various license classes stay only in their respective subbands, in that you won't find Extras in the Advanced and General parts, or Advanceds in the General parts, etc. But that's not how it works. You've got it all bass-ackwards, Jim. My "experiment" presumes that you won't find Advanced in the Extra portion of the band, and you won't find Generals in either the Advanced or Extra segments. Thus, if incentive licensing is working, there ought to be a noticeable difference in operator/technical skills evident between the opposite ends of the band segments. As you so ably point out, that difference doesn't seem to exist. I rest my case. No benefits of incentive licensing are observed in the real world. wrote I would expect less sophisticated discussions in the Advanced/Extra portions simply because the Generals may be more apt to be seeking knowledge where the Extras may be inclined to relax. Dee, you should submit this as the funniest-rrap-paragraph-of-the-month. 73, de Hans, K0HB At one time I noted that most of the violations were awarded to the higher class licensees. I don't know if that was an artifact of the FCC picking on them because they should know better, or if it had to do with the kind of attitudes of so many of the Extra's display on RRAP carrying over the the bands. |
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