Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
 

From: on Dec 18, 10:54 am

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: on Thurs, Dec 15 2005 4:14 am
wrote:
From: on Dec 13, 7:32 pm
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Dec 7, 5:28 pm
wrote:
From: Bill Sohl on Dec 6, 6:11 am
wrote in message

[getting to be a long thread...:-)]

The starting path under discussion was the path to an amateur radio
license. You haven't taken the first step on that path.

"The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single
step"...some ancient Chinese proverb, I suppose.

Lao Tzu.

Any relation to Zack Lao?

...about as much as "Ed Hair." :-)


I found some Chinese proverbs which seem quite fitting to your role he

"A crane is too obvious when it stands among a flock of chickens and
looks very awkward. It is also true with a camel amidst a flock of sheep
and a flea when it stands on top of a hairless head. They all carry a
pejoritary tone: the thing that outstands others is something awkward if
not necessarily bad."

You are the crane, the camel or the flea.

You are the chicken, the sheep or the hairless head?

Depends on which Chinese restaurant he went to and what
fortune cookie he opened.


"There is an argument between a bird who stopped to drank at a well and
a frog therein. They were arguing about how the sky looked like.
Regarding where they were, they each had a different view. The frog's
vision was of course very limited. Therefore, this proverb refers to
somebody who has a very narrow-minded and insulated view of what they
see or what they think."

You are the frog.

The frog gives the bird.

I hope Davie enjoys eating the bird.


I obtained a COMMERCIAL radio operator license 49 years ago.
First Class, one test, no repeats necessary.

Yeah? So?

One exam to run a 100,000 watt transmitter? What would Jim say?

Jimmie will no doubt say something making little sense...:-)


WHY was it "required" that I obtain an amateur license?

Who ever told you that it was?

It isn't, but the way you and Jim needle Len about getting one...

Not good, Brian. They will DEMAND we all "produce the proof
that they ever wrote something remotely like that"...even
though they did.



Was it necessary to punish amateurs?

Who was "punished"?

You tell us. You are the one into the dominatrix role.

No, *you* need to tell us. You wrote of amateur radio ops being
punished over incentive licensing. Back up your claim.

I asked about amateurs being punished. Jim said he lost privileges.
He was no longer in the privileged class.

Davie gets very confused when confronted, becomes hostile and
accuses everyone of perfidy. :-)



Lots of us radio pros without amateur licenses just didn't bother
to get an amateur license...not necessarily as a result of
"changes of 1968 or 1969."

That's fine, Len. Nobody says you have to get ana amateur radio
license.

"Ana amateur radio license?"

Ah, but YOU already said I had some kind of moral imperative
to get an amateur radio license. Hypocrite.

No one has told you anything of the kind. That's another of your
factual errors.

Then we will hear no more from you and Jim about Len not having one,
right?

Ho, ho, ho! Do NOT bet on that! :-)


But it does seem a bit odd that you're expending so much
time and energy on the requirements for a license you aren't
going to get...

"Not going to get?" Who said that...besides YOU?

Why, *you* said it.

Why did he say it?

Davie needs to go into Google search and find the EXACT quote
in the EXACT CONTEXT to "prove" his accusations. :-)


I'm just wanting the morse code test for an amateur radio
license eliminated.

That's at least the third version you've told here. Previously, you've
waffled between the other two--that you were going to get the "Extra
right out of the box or that you weren't going to obtain an amateur
radio license.

Can't a person want more than one thing? Is Dave putting limits on
what people can want?

Davie seems to be DICTATING everything about everyone else.
Sort of an amateur Pat Robertson or Oral Roberts?

I keep telling him his jackboots are on too tight and his
monocle is in the wrong eye, but Davie never listens...he
just keeps giving Kommands in his best Prussian manner.


Why are YOU "spending so much time and energy" trying to
throw **** on all of those desiring that test element 1
deletion?

Doing what?

That voodoo that you do.

Davie loves throwing **** on people who disagree with him. :-)


What are you afraid of? Loss of your personal status,
title, and privileges?

What are you afraid of, Len? That radio amateurs won't show you the
respect which you feel is your due?

That has certainly been the case on rrap.

? Heh heh heh...if I was "afraid" of anything, I would have
ceased accessing this morseblog long ago. :-)



That you won't get into amateur
radio before you're past your expiration date?

Len has an expiration date? What is it?

It isn't imprinted on my hide in purple ink of the FDA...such as
hams are marked. :-)


What the heck, I'd already started
15 and 14 years before in HF comms where the operating
environment was a HELLUVA LOT TOUGHER on all concerned than any
amateur activity.

How was it "a HELLUVA LOT TOUGHER", Len? I saw your "My 3 Years" thing.

The amateur radio service does not require its licensees to
wage war and kill the enemy.

Did you wage war or kill an enemy?

He put himself in the pool of combattants. After that he followed
orders.

That's just the way it was...


The military "field days" were not little outings in a park
once a year.

Did you ever participate in a military "field day"?

He put himself in the pool of combattants. After that he followed
orders.

That's just the way it was...


Amateur radio doesn't operate in an environment of high
explosive ordinance going off nearby.

Did you operate in an environment of high explosive ordinance going off
nearby?

He put himself in the pool of combattants. After that he followed
orders.

Actually I did, but that's just the way it was...


What did Jim do? Did he excuse himelf? Was he unfit to serve?

Jimmie got Mother Superior to send a note to the DoD to
excuse him?


And why all the comparisons? You seem to feel a need to prove that you
had it "TOUGHER" than anybody else.....

To use a quaint and traditional military phrase, "****in-A!"

Then I suppose you're disappointed that you're efforts toward proving it
have fallen a little short.

One hundred seventy five miles uphill both ways to the FCC examiners
office. In the snow.

Jimmie is one of those Monty Python sissies who think that
manly outbursts are "just horrid!"


Yes, sweetums, I - and every other military person - had it
TOUGHER than you civilians safe at home.

Really? How tough was the rear area life in Japan, Len? I don't recall
my military service as having been very TOUGH.

Must have been why you got out so quickly.

Davie FOUGHT THE ENEMY IN SE ASIA with his trusty USAF MARS rig?



What's with your schtick here, Leonard? Your posts seem to indicate
that you believe that all MUST agree with YOUR opinions.

It would be nice that once someone rejects an opinion that they say
why.

Saying that Len doesn't hold an amateur license is not a good reason
to reject Len's opinions wrt the ARS.

Brian, give Davie some slack. That's about all he can come up
with...personal insults and depredations.


Yes there is. License test regulations REQUIRE a code test for
any class having below-30-MHz operation privileges...BUT...the
FCC does not mandate all amateur USING morse code modes over
and above any other mode. All are optional.

Well now! Yessir, that presents a real dilemma, doesn't it. You should
be able to suck it up. After all, your military service was way TOUGHER
than this easy civilian stuff.

The regulations don't even define Morse Code let alone Farnsworth Code,
but the FCC can deny a license based upon an exam it can't define.

True enough, Brian, but notice how Davie handles my statement.

I repeated the long-term fact of the FCC *NOT* mandating code
use over and above any other mode, yet retaining the license
test for morse code even though all allocated modes are optional.

That in itself would be sufficient cause to either eliminate the
morse code test or make all amateur licensees use morse code
over and above any other mode.

Davie just said "suck it up."

Rather than discuss law and regulations, he just goes for the
personal denigrations schtick. Standard Heil procedure.



Can't answer the questions, eh?

Jimmie, you present NO valid questions. Ergo, no valid answers
required.

The questions were valid enough. You just didn't answer them.

Why don't you answer them, Dave?

He can't.


Your tales precede your manufacturer of the term "Dudly the Imposter" by
quite some time.

"manufacture"

"manure"

"Dudley" was the pseudonym of the character described by writer
Ernest K. Gann in his autobiographical book "Fate is the Hunter."
The parallels to the one using "K4YZ" are so remarkably similar
that I just changed "Dudley" to "Dudly." Imposters are imposters.

That's just the way it is...


That's funny. Jim knows what I've done in professional communications
and I've seen no indication that he has ever become upset over it. Then
again, I've never made it seem that what I did professionally carried
any weight in amateur radio.

Your "career" was your DXpedition meal ticket.

Especially as the ONLY amateur radio licensee in the big nation
of Guinea-Bisseau. :-)


For example, I think the ARRL made a big mistake not letting WK3C run for
Director of the Atlantic Division. That's *my* division, btw...

Is your Division mobilized and ready to ship out to fight
the War on Terror? Bon voyage.

Maybe they can just show up on r.r.a.p, read your posts and begin waging
the War on Error.

Yes, especially against the one who, on December 10, wrote:

"FCC doesn't license radio amateurs."


Irrelevant to RADIO REGULATIONS. Local zoning laws have NOTHING
to do with federal radio regulations. Give it up.

Did you miss seeing the parallel to your actions in regard to amateur
radio? It was quite evident.

Amateur radio regulations are a subset of "RADIO REGULATIONS."

NOT about local city zoning ordinances.


Or someone who tells a US Navy veteran to shove something up his I/O
port?

One military veteran can tell another military veteran lots
of things. Brakob, Burke, and myself are all military
veterans. YOU have NEVER been an military veteran.

I'm a military veteran. You've told me lots of things. I take offense
to some of them.

Ditto.

Brian, the difference between you and Heil is that Heil is OFFENSIVE
to just about everyone, regardless of his "veteranism." :-)

Maybe that is just Delayed Stress Syndrome as a result of all that
"in-country" fighting with MARS rigs? Any lessons of "diplomacy"
learned in all that Department of State service seem to have
evaporated. Or being away from the USA in all that "foreign
service" did something else? Difficult to ascertain.

Happy Christmas

Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
 

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: Dee Flint on Dec 15, 3:21 pm
"Bill Sohl" wrote in message

Actually the place that I see the difference in operating skills is on the
VHF bands in the VHF contests. When I review my contacts in those contests,
the large majority of them are Extra class operators. They seem to be the
ones to have the skill necessary to put together and operate a station
suitable to make long distance VHF contacts and the skill to do so.

Wow! Someone should have TOLD the U.S. Army Signal Corps folks
at Evans Signal Laboratory in 1946 when they were the first to
bounce a radio signal off the moon!

How much power was used by the Army?

The transmitter used was a modified SCR-271 radar unit. It produced
3000 W on 111.5 Mc. (that's what the Signal Corps called them
back then). Pair of 6C21 triodes in the output - they look similar to
1000Ts.

3000 W output with those tubes at that frequency means about 5000 W
input.
The amateur power limit back then was 1000 W input.

How large was the antenna?

64 dipoles in front of a plane reflector. At least 24 dB gain over
isotropic.

There's a lot more info at:

http://www.campevans.com/diana.html

btw, it was a moon RADAR experiment, not a communications system.

The mode used was OOK CW. The echoes were heard as beeps. Had there
been
a second station, communication could have been done by Morse Code.

But no Morse Code was used because no communication was done. There was
no second station to communicate with.

Those Diana folks had a some hams involved, though - all code tested at
at
least 13 wpm:

Lt. Col John H. DeWitt, officer-in-charge, W4ERI, ex-W4FU

E.K. Stodola, head of the lab's Research Section, W3IVF

F. Elacker, Mechanical Engineer, ex-W2DMD

H.P.Kaufmann, W2OQU was also involved at a high level.

Those are just the hams I know of that were involved. There were
probably more.

Note that a good number of the top people were radio amateurs.

They used power levels 9 dB above those permitted to amateurs at the
time, and
an antenna that was quite beyond "backyard construction". They had lots
of
resources.

Lt. Col. DeWitt, W4ERI, was the driving force behind the whole idea,
which he
first began working on in 1940.

Hams
are now doing moonbounce wherein one of the stations is using a modest
50 MHz yagi and 100w or so.

A few years back, a couple of hams (both code-tested, at least one
an Extra) did microwave EME with less than
100 W and dishes less than 10 feet in diameter - at both ends. Using
their own resources.

Yeah, they should have told the Signal Corps "how to do it" in
Korea in the 1950s when they set out all that VHF radio relay
equipment in the hills and valleys there.

Where WAS the ARRL when all that was going on? They didn't tell
the Signal Corps much of anything...

Where Worked All States? During WWII, the Signal Corps used the ARRL
Handbook, Leonard. I'll bet that chafes you to no end.

The ARRL actually produced a special "Defense Edition" Handbook
for training purposes.

There's also the story of "The Ghost of Guam".

73 de Jim, N2EY

Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
 

wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: Dee Flint on Dec 15, 3:21 pm
"Bill Sohl" wrote in message

Actually the place that I see the difference in operating skills is on the
VHF bands in the VHF contests. When I review my contacts in those contests,
the large majority of them are Extra class operators. They seem to be the
ones to have the skill necessary to put together and operate a station
suitable to make long distance VHF contacts and the skill to do so.

Wow! Someone should have TOLD the U.S. Army Signal Corps folks
at Evans Signal Laboratory in 1946 when they were the first to
bounce a radio signal off the moon!

How much power was used by the Army?

The transmitter used was a modified SCR-271 radar unit. It produced
3000 W on 111.5 Mc. (that's what the Signal Corps called them
back then). Pair of 6C21 triodes in the output - they look similar to
1000Ts.

3000 W output with those tubes at that frequency means about 5000 W
input.
The amateur power limit back then was 1000 W input.

Was RADAR a legal mode? What was the PRF?

How large was the antenna?

64 dipoles in front of a plane reflector. At least 24 dB gain over
isotropic.

There's a lot more info at:

http://www.campevans.com/diana.html

btw, it was a moon RADAR experiment, not a communications system.

The mode used was OOK CW. The echoes were heard as beeps. Had there
been
a second station, communication could have been done by Morse Code.

But no Morse Code was used because no communication was done. There was
no second station to communicate with.

Those Diana folks had a some hams involved, though - all code tested at
at
least 13 wpm:

Conditionals or FCC tested?

Lt. Col John H. DeWitt, officer-in-charge, W4ERI, ex-W4FU

FU suffix, huh? I'm suprised the fCC let that one through.

E.K. Stodola, head of the lab's Research Section, W3IVF

F. Elacker, Mechanical Engineer, ex-W2DMD

H.P.Kaufmann, W2OQU was also involved at a high level.

Those are just the hams I know of that were involved. There were
probably more.

There always are.

Note that a good number of the top people were radio amateurs.

They used power levels 9 dB above those permitted to amateurs at the
time, and
an antenna that was quite beyond "backyard construction". They had lots
of
resources.

A fantastic use of post-war resources.

Lt. Col. DeWitt, W4ERI, was the driving force behind the whole idea,
which he
first began working on in 1940.

What idea? To bounce a signal off of the moon for no communications
purpose?

Isn't that like bouncing a basketball off of a backboard with no
intention of making a basket?

Hams
are now doing moonbounce wherein one of the stations is using a modest
50 MHz yagi and 100w or so.

A few years back, a couple of hams (both code-tested, at least one
an Extra) did microwave EME with less than
100 W and dishes less than 10 feet in diameter - at both ends. Using
their own resources.

Go Hams!

Yeah, they should have told the Signal Corps "how to do it" in
Korea in the 1950s when they set out all that VHF radio relay
equipment in the hills and valleys there.

Where WAS the ARRL when all that was going on? They didn't tell
the Signal Corps much of anything...

Where Worked All States? During WWII, the Signal Corps used the ARRL
Handbook, Leonard. I'll bet that chafes you to no end.

The ARRL actually produced a special "Defense Edition" Handbook
for training purposes.

There's also the story of "The Ghost of Guam".

73 de Jim, N2EY

A KG6, no doubt. BTW, I saw KG6DX listed in the CQWW.

Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

[snip]


There's also the story of "The Ghost of Guam".

73 de Jim, N2EY


Where can I read that story? Or perhaps you could summarize here?

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
 

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Dec 7, 5:28 pm
wrote:
From: Bill Sohl on Dec 6, 6:11 am
wrote in message


[snip]


Is that why the FCC gives ALL power priveleges to their ENTRY LEVEL
LICENSEES?


Entry level licensees do NOT have all power privileges. Technicians with
code are an entry level license. On HF frequencies, they are limited to 200
watts output.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

And 200 watts on VHF/UHF???

Hello, Dee?

Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
 

wrote


There's also the story of "The Ghost of Guam".


The "Ghost of Guam" was US Navy Radioman 1st Class George Tweed. He wasn't a
ham. Was reputed to be laid up drunk in a house of horizontal refreshment when
the Navy evacuated the island just ahead of the WW-II JA invasion so he missed
his ride. Had to hide out in the jungle for a few years until the USN came
back. In the book/movie "No Man is an Island" he comes off as a hero, but was
in fact not popular with the locals, several of whom (including a native RC
Priest) lost their lives for not revealing his whereabouts. After the war he
skedaddled without so much as a thank-you.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
 

Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
 

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

[snip]


There's also the story of "The Ghost of Guam".

73 de Jim, N2EY


Where can I read that story? Or perhaps you could summarize here?

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

W/O George Tweed, USN, RM1c. Also KB6GJX. He was left behind on Guam
and
eluded capture by the Japanese for 31 months, until the island was
retaken by
American forces.

He was aided and kept from capture by the efforts of the Chamoru
(Guamanians),
who hid him, kept him supplied, and would not give him up despite large
rewards
offered by the Japanese occupiers. The Japanese tortured and executed
many
Chamoru inhabitants, including a Roman Catholic priest, on the
suspicion that they
had information on Tweed. But the they never gave Tweed up.

One version of the story may be read and seen in the book and film "No
Man Is An Island".

I have read that Tweed is not fondly remembered on Guam. Postwar
accounts
tended to portray him as a lone heroic figure, and to downplay or even
ignore
the terrible price paid by those who helped him.

The radio connection to all this is that while Tweed was hiding from
the Japanese,
he built and operated several receivers, and was able to give the
Chamoru
accurate war news. He even wrote a small newspaper to circulate the
news.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
 

Reasonable and unique, was One Class of Amateur Radio License?
 

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

wrote


There's also the story of "The Ghost of Guam".


The "Ghost of Guam" was US Navy Radioman 1st Class George Tweed. He
wasn't a ham. Was reputed to be laid up drunk in a house of horizontal
refreshment when the Navy evacuated the island just ahead of the WW-II JA
invasion so he missed his ride. Had to hide out in the jungle for a few
years until the USN came back. In the book/movie "No Man is an Island" he
comes off as a hero, but was in fact not popular with the locals, several
of whom (including a native RC Priest) lost their lives for not revealing
his whereabouts. After the war he skedaddled without so much as a
thank-you.

73, de Hans, K0HB



He was at the Legion Christmas party and personally thanked you
and everyone else.