RadioBanter - 05-235 - Any new procode test arguments?

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From: on Wed 16 Nov 2005 19:09
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From: "Bill Sohl" on Wed 16 Nov 2005 08:35
wrote in message
an old friend wrote:
wrote:
Bill Sohl wrote:

Way back in time the pro-coders managed to set themselves up as
"extra" amateurs BECAUSE of their telegraphy skill, all through
lobbying to keep morse code as the "hot ticket."

Not true, Len.

ABSOLUTELY TRUE, Miccolis. Everyone realizes it. Why not
admit that it is so?

Let's go through it, shall we? Pro-coders (one can only wonder if Len
means those who favored morse testing, those who favored morse use or
those who were simply proficient at morse code) made up their own
regulations. It isn't explained how or if these "pro-coders" all became
Extra Class ticket holders. Extra Class license holders can't obtain
that license without passing the most difficult theory and regulatory
written exam offered in U.S. amateur radio and not all of those with
morse code skills became Extra Class licensees. Len's statement appears
to have some gaping holes.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. NO "holes," Heil. An abbreviated synopsis
is all.

Big holes, Len.

Before Restructuring took effect in 2000, the Extra code test
rate was 20 WPM.

Unless a medical waiver was obtained, in which case the Extra
could be had for a code test of as little as 5 wpm.

The "modern" Extra class license was added in the 1951 restructuring
that
also added the Novice and Technician class licenses. The code test
speed
for the Extra was set at 20 wpm at that time.

That's what Len said.

No, it isn't. He left out the part about the medical waivers, which
became a reality in 1990.

He also said "the pro-coders managed to set themselves up as
"extra" amateurs BECAUSE of their telegraphy skill, all through
lobbying to keep morse code as the "hot ticket.""

which wasn't the case at all.

He sees it differently.

He wasn't there, though. His opinion is not backed up by facts.

I agree that a lot of old timers will not like
losing Morse Exam, probably for the reasons Len has cited.

I'm sure that people with disabilities really get under your skin.

Nope - not at all.

Just the one's who get Fast-Code waivers.

13 and 20 wpm are not Fast-Code.

Why? Because the older-timers influencing
the NAAR lobbyists thought they were hot snit for amateur
radio because so many had been professional telegraphers.

No, that's not true at all.

It does have that appearance.

How?

The ARRL did not create the Extra class license in 1951. They did
not lobby for it either.

It was a way of keeping the old pro status past retirement.
Since they were already skilled in telegraphy, they got a free
set of perquisites in a HOBBY activity.

What about the thousands of others - like myself - who earned the
license because we wanted the privileges? In my case, that was
in 1970, at the age of 16.

You mom and dad provided you with three hots and a cot.

So? That's what responsible parents do.

I also had to go to school and make acceptable grades. Do all assigned
chores at home and work (yes, I worked then). Plus all the usual
activities of a kid my age back then.

Or what? Let's say you brought home a "D" in math and science.

Math and science were two different subjects in my high school.

You don't say?

You wrote as if they were one subject.

Let's see...

In math:

9th grade: Algebra 1
10th grade: Geometry
11th grade: Algebra 2 and Trigonometry
12th grade: AP Calculus

In science:

9th grade: Introductory Physics
10th grade: Chemistry
11th grade: Biology
12th grade: AP Physics

Never brought home any "D" marks so I don't know what would have
happened.

I suspect that if I had, there would have been no ham radio until the
marks improved.

But what if you were in the middle of preparing for another ham test
with Bash (or its equivalent) study guides?

Another non-event. I didn't hear of Bash books until long after I had
the
Extra. Nor any "equivalent".

Of course I had a built-in advantage because I'd learned a lot of math
and science for ham radio before I ever got to high school. I earned
the Advanced in the summer between 8th and 9th grade, you see.

You had an advantage because you started your ham "career" in your
youth while supported by your family.

Not really. Sure, I didn't have a fulltime job nor dependents to
support. But
I did have other responsibilities.

OTOH, I had the distinct disadvantage of not having the mobility,
money,
freedom of action or education that most adults have.

Others had an advantage because
if they washed out of ditty bopper school in the military they became
cooks and MPs.

I wasn't one of those - I had already passed the Extra before entering
11th grade.

A tidal wave of Morse Operators left the service at the end of WWII.

Was there an MOS of "Morse Operator"? Or were they called "Radioman" or
"Radio Operator"?

Besides, that conflicts with what Len keeps telling us. He constantly
denies that
Morse Code played any important role in US military communication after
the 1930s.

It is plausible that some of them liked the idea of having a special
ticket just for high and higher speed code operators with spectrum
set-aside just for them. Some might even have found their way into the
federal government, and even into the FCC and put the concept of
Inventive Licensing into motion.

Wild speculation that is not backed up by the facts of what really
happened.

And recall that Len wrote:

"Why? Because the older-timers influencing
the NAAR lobbyists thought they were hot snit for amateur
radio because so many had been professional telegraphers."

and

"It was a way of keeping the old pro status past retirement.
Since they were already skilled in telegraphy, they got a free
set of perquisites in a HOBBY activity."

The Extra was created in 1951, not 1968. It was meant as a
replacement for the Advanced/Class A.

I wonder where all the Veteran ditty-boppers ended up?

Prove that the "old First Phone" examination was "less hard"
than the Amateur Extra exam. You never completed that last
test element on your alleged Commercial radio operator license
and could only get a SECOND class.

Kindly prove that the old Amateur Extra was less difficult than the old
First Phone.

Heil, quit being the snotty lil kid trying to turn tables. That
makes YOU look dumb. I took all the test elements for a First
'Phone 49 years ago. I've seen the test elements for an Extra
of that time.

Where?

Back then those test elements were only given by FCC examiners. They
were not legally available to folks like you (outside of FCC). In fact,
back then
FCC required 2 years' experience as a General or higher license just to
*try*
the Extra test.

Dick Bash disagreed with you then and he disagrees with you now.

How? Dick Bash did not see the actual exams except by taking them.

Then he published them.

And FCC did nothing about it. Some in the FCC wanted to prosecute,
but the higher ups didn't allow it. Phil Kane has told about it
first-hand -
he was working in the office where Bash did his thing at the time.

Whether Bash broke the letter of the law or not isn't clear, but it
*is*
clear that he broke the spirit of the law. If, back then, FCC had
thought
it was OK for people to see the actual exams, they would have been
published
(as they are now) rather than going through the additional work of
making
up study guides.

The point is that you think Len was incapable of seeing an actual FCC
exam or study material published by Bash or other Publishing Houses.

Incorrect.

Len claimed he saw the 1957 Extra written test. Not a Bash book or
other
study guide but the actual test. While not absolutely impossible, it is
highly improbable because non-FCC folks were not shown the test
unless they were taking it.

Bash did not do his thing until more than a decade after 1957.

The Commercial license was still more difficult
than the amateur...NOT because I took any, but because the
Commercial license covered a LOT more EM territory, a LOT more
modes in Commercial radio then.

But you don't really know because you didn't take both. Some of those
who *did* take both say the Extra written was "harder".

It's important that you should work harder for a hobby endeavor than
for a commercial endeavor.

Wasn't too hard for a 16 year old between 10th and 11th grade. In fact,
I'd have gotten it more than a year earlier except for the 2 year
waiting period.

"The Man" still keeping you down?

Not at all. Experience was part of the requirement back then. It was
and is
a good idea.

How about "life" experience, such as an age requirement?

Bad idea. No one has been able to show that the licensing of young hams
has *ever* caused problems in the amateur radio service. Len cannot
name
even one case where a ham licensee's youth was a factor in a rules
violation
or other problem.

"A Morse Code Exam would be a barrier to Morse Code use." N2EY

Brian Burke, you have written that quote here several times, and
claimed I
wrote it. But I did not write that sentence - you did. Check google and
show us what I actually wrote on that subject.

I agreed with you then and I agree with you now.

You're only agreeing with something you wrote. Not what I wrote.

In all fairness, I should recheck the quote.

Yes, you should. And its context.

I've searched and cannot find it.

Then why have you quoted me as writing it?