"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Bill Sohl" wrote
...... what is your specific proposal?

I propose that new license applications be available
in two classes, namely "Class B" and "Class A".

The "Class B" learners permit would have an entry-level test
(basic regulations, safety, operating procedures, basic DC
and AC electronics). This class would have full frequency and
mode privileges, power limited to 50W output. The permit
would be issued for a period of 10 years, and be non-renewable.

The "Class A" license test would be of a difficulty level
similar to the current Extra class test, and would have
full privileges at power levels up to 1500W, equivalent to
current Extra Class license holders. This license
would be issued "for life" without requirement for
renewal.

Current licenses could be renewed indefinitely, and would
retain their current operating privileges.

Current Novice, Technician, General, and Advanced class
licensees could upgrade to "Class A" at any time.

Given the non-renewable aspect of your Class B and a difficulty
level for Class A being set to approximate today's Extra; I think
that presents a very large jump from B to A in one test
element. Today, even with 3 element steps
to Extra we see limited (i.e. about 15%) of today's hams
going to Extra. Once code is gone, some of that will increase, but
I suspect many people find their needs addressed at Tech or
General.

Perhaps a set of 3 classes, A, B & C would make more sense
wherby Class A would be as Hans proposes, Class C would be the
non-renewable Class B he proposed and we call my
suggested Class B a renewable version of the Class C.
Class B would be 100% identical to Class C except it would be
renewable and it would have a test element equivalent to
todays General.

Just some more thoughts, what say you folks?

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"Bill Sohl" wrote


Given the non-renewable aspect of your Class B and a difficulty
level for Class A being set to approximate today's Extra; I think
that presents a very large jump from B to A in one test
element.

My proposal gives you a generous 10 years to prepare.


Perhaps a set of 3 classes, A, B & C would make more sense
wherby Class A would be as Hans proposes, Class C would be the
non-renewable Class B he proposed and we call my
suggested Class B a renewable version of the Class C.
Class B would be 100% identical to Class C except it would be
renewable and it would have a test element equivalent to
todays General.

Just some more thoughts, what say you folks?


Your proposal perpetuates the caste system currently in place which stratifies
and divides hams into arbitrary ranks. That mentality absolutely needs to be
destroyed.

73, de Hans, K0HB

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:22:16 GMT, "KØHB"
wrote:


"Bill Sohl" wrote


Given the non-renewable aspect of your Class B and a difficulty
level for Class A being set to approximate today's Extra; I think
that presents a very large jump from B to A in one test
element.

My proposal gives you a generous 10 years to prepare.


Perhaps a set of 3 classes, A, B & C would make more sense
wherby Class A would be as Hans proposes, Class C would be the
non-renewable Class B he proposed and we call my
suggested Class B a renewable version of the Class C.
Class B would be 100% identical to Class C except it would be
renewable and it would have a test element equivalent to
todays General.

Just some more thoughts, what say you folks?


Your proposal perpetuates the caste system currently in place which stratifies
and divides hams into arbitrary ranks. That mentality absolutely needs to be
destroyed.

glad to see your ointerest in ending this problem

a question that needs to be answered

why does the uresulting "Ham class" have to the exactly the equal of
the extra? do you or anyone in fact think that you can keep the OT's
from claiming the new "A's" are just dumbed down anyway

just what do Ham needs to know anyway, to get on the air today anyway?
thatis what the test should cover to assume a number for the classes
of license is assume we need a question set ofsuch and such a size

perhaps we could serve the interest in Class with several tests each
could be studied and taken in sections with CSSE's for each

perhaps in that would would some some set of tests that if you pass
these 3 (out of say 5 test) or a given set on operating a class of
license could exist allow the new hams to use a set up staion (the
staionm ust be assemebled by the fulll ham)

but these sorts of changes would allow the ARS to all but eliate
seperate classes and yet preserve what ever level is NEEDED to assure
safe operation in the ARS

73, de Hans, K0HB





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wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:22:16 GMT, "KØHB"
wrote:


"Bill Sohl" wrote


Given the non-renewable aspect of your Class B and a difficulty
level for Class A being set to approximate today's Extra; I think
that presents a very large jump from B to A in one test
element.

My proposal gives you a generous 10 years to prepare.


Perhaps a set of 3 classes, A, B & C would make more sense
wherby Class A would be as Hans proposes, Class C would be the
non-renewable Class B he proposed and we call my
suggested Class B a renewable version of the Class C.
Class B would be 100% identical to Class C except it would be
renewable and it would have a test element equivalent to
todays General.

Just some more thoughts, what say you folks?


Your proposal perpetuates the caste system currently in place which stratifies
and divides hams into arbitrary ranks. That mentality absolutely needs to be
destroyed.

glad to see your ointerest in ending this problem

a question that needs to be answered

why does the uresulting "Ham class" have to the exactly the equal of
the extra? do you or anyone in fact think that you can keep the OT's
from claiming the new "A's" are just dumbed down anyway

I think the new full priv license should be at the General test level.
If you take Frank's suggestion to expire 100% of the present licenses
and everyone retests, then everyone will hold an "A" license within 10
years and they can complain all they want.

just what do Ham needs to know anyway, to get on the air today anyway?
thatis what the test should cover to assume a number for the classes
of license is assume we need a question set ofsuch and such a size

And that is the question, "What is necessary?"

perhaps we could serve the interest in Class with several tests each
could be studied and taken in sections with CSSE's for each

And ARRL and W5YI pulling in $10 for each exam?

perhaps in that would would some some set of tests that if you pass
these 3 (out of say 5 test) or a given set on operating a class of
license could exist allow the new hams to use a set up staion (the
staionm ust be assemebled by the fulll ham)

but these sorts of changes would allow the ARS to all but eliate
seperate classes and yet preserve what ever level is NEEDED to assure
safe operation in the ARS

Do you think Steve would help you set up a station? I'd rather not
rely on the "generosity" of other amateurs for my station.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:22:16 GMT, "KØHB"
Your proposal perpetuates the caste system currently in place which stratifies
and divides hams into arbitrary ranks. That mentality absolutely needs to be
destroyed.

A Vietnamese proverb I include in my syllabus each semester says, "If you
study you'll become what you desire; if you do not study you'll never
become anything." That exactly describes what separates any particular
segment of a population from another, including hams. There is no "caste
system" in amateur radio, for a caste is defined being born into a
particular social class and never being able to move from that class.

What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.

You sound like a socialist, Hans -- a believer in one and only one class
in a society.

No 73 for socialists,
Jeff KH6O


--
Chief Petty Officer, U.S. Coast Guard
Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System

"Jeffrey Herman" wrote

A Vietnamese proverb I include in my syllabus each semester says, "If you
study you'll become what you desire; if you do not study you'll never
become anything."

Chief Petty Officer, U.S. Coast Guard
Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System

I'll remember that for the next time I want to impress a Vienamese bimbo.

Meanwhile here's a proverb from Bokonon which I include in my lectures:

"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something,
learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before.
He is full of murderous resentment of people who
are ignorant without having come by their ignorance
the hard way."



You sound like a socialist, Hans -- a believer in one and only one class
in a society.


Quite the opposite, Jeffrey, I'm a staunch Libertarian, and I believe that the
only legitimate interest that government has in Amateur Radio licensing is to
determine if the applicant is qualified or not qualified, not to
social-engineer the Amateur Service into an arbitrary layer cake of
good/better/best operators.

72.5 ---- (when you don't care enough to give the very best),

de Hans, K0HB
--
Master Chief Petty Officer, US Navy
Philosophy Lecturer, University of RRAP System

KØHB wrote:
"Jeffrey Herman" wrote

A Vietnamese proverb I include in my syllabus each semester says, "If you
study you'll become what you desire; if you do not study you'll never
become anything."

Chief Petty Officer, U.S. Coast Guard
Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System

I'll remember that for the next time I want to impress a Vienamese bimbo.

Vietnamese proverbs, huh? I'm going to guess that Jeff wants his
"students" to think he's a vietnam vet.

Meanwhile here's a proverb from Bokonon which I include in my lectures:

"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something,
learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before.
He is full of murderous resentment of people who
are ignorant without having come by their ignorance
the hard way."

Pokomon sounds very wise.

You sound like a socialist, Hans -- a believer in one and only one class
in a society.


Quite the opposite, Jeffrey, I'm a staunch Libertarian, and I believe that the
only legitimate interest that government has in Amateur Radio licensing is to
determine if the applicant is qualified or not qualified,

and to enforce...

not to
social-engineer the Amateur Service into an arbitrary layer cake of
good/better/best operators.

But, but, but if the Government couldn't determine who the very best
operators were, then QST would have no "antique radio" article to write
about in the January issue of QST.

On 31 Dec 2005 01:52:05 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman)
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:22:16 GMT, "KØHB"
Your proposal perpetuates the caste system currently in place which stratifies
and divides hams into arbitrary ranks. That mentality absolutely needs to be
destroyed.

A Vietnamese proverb I include in my syllabus each semester says, "If you
study you'll become what you desire; if you do not study you'll never
become anything." That exactly describes what separates any particular
segment of a population from another, including hams. There is no "caste
system" in amateur radio, for a caste is defined being born into a
particular social class and never being able to move from that class.

What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.

a simple lie one of the core lies told by on the side of the ProCode
test issue

in may case it borders on being a personal slander but that is all to
comon too

You sound like a socialist, Hans -- a believer in one and only one class
in a society.

No 73 for socialists,
Jeff KH6O

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wrote:


On 31 Dec 2005 01:52:05 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman)
What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.


a simple lie one of the core lies told by on the side of the ProCode
test issue
in may case it borders on being a personal slander but that is all to
comon too

Claiming motivation or a lack of is a lie? How so? Back up your claim
with facts.

Motivation versus a lack of motivation *is* exactly why we have a
population of citizens with various educational, vocational, and
wealth differences.

Motivation is the key to everything. Study and you'll become what
you wish; if you do not study you'll never become anything.

Jeff KH6O


--
Chief Petty Officer, U.S. Coast Guard
Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System

Jeffrey Herman wrote:
wrote:


On 31 Dec 2005 01:52:05 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman)
What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.


a simple lie one of the core lies told by on the side of the ProCode
test issue
in may case it borders on being a personal slander but that is all to
comon too

Claiming motivation or a lack of is a lie? How so? Back up your claim
with facts.

that is of course easier when taking an extreme example which will
follow

telling and a person and emstraing the power tocarry out the threat if
if doesn't learn to flap his arms and fly the will be killed and the
wholepopulation of the killed first in front of him is plenty of
motiviation to learn to fly it is still impoosible

more on point you calim that the only reason I for example don't have
an extra class licnse today ist that I am not motivated enough to learn
code

I tired for years and great effort to learn but failed utterly the
reason for my lack an extra class license is not motivation but a lack
of abilty


Motivation versus a lack of motivation *is* exactly why we have a
population of citizens with various educational, vocational, and
wealth differences.

no it isn't or at least not entirely

I am not lawyer making millions at least in parts becuase I find mthe
conduct that would be required to sickening, and if some one car to say
my spelling is the problem then the blame falls on the factI got a
diffeent set of wetware than the rest of you

you have repated the standrad lie we have seen in all politics at one
time or another that all with less than another deserve their fate
becuase they were lazy

that John Kerry is not president of the USA is not a matter thathe
wasn't motivated enough. or do you claim thats it is

I thought he was going to win at one point. I beleive he lost in part
for making a tactical error in dealing the swift boat ads

your blanket stement that motivation equals succes is a lie

plain and simple

Motivation is the key to everything. Study and you'll become what
you wish; if you do not study you'll never become anything.

a lie jeff and a dangerous one

Jeff KH6O


--
Chief Petty Officer, U.S. Coast Guard
Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System