wrote:


On 31 Dec 2005 01:52:05 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman)
What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.


a simple lie one of the core lies told by on the side of the ProCode
test issue
in may case it borders on being a personal slander but that is all to
comon too

Claiming motivation or a lack of is a lie? How so? Back up your claim
with facts.

Motivation versus a lack of motivation *is* exactly why we have a
population of citizens with various educational, vocational, and
wealth differences.

Motivation is the key to everything. Study and you'll become what
you wish; if you do not study you'll never become anything.

Jeff KH6O


--
Chief Petty Officer, U.S. Coast Guard
Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System

Jeffrey Herman wrote:
wrote:


On 31 Dec 2005 01:52:05 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman)
What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.


a simple lie one of the core lies told by on the side of the ProCode
test issue
in may case it borders on being a personal slander but that is all to
comon too

Claiming motivation or a lack of is a lie? How so? Back up your claim
with facts.

that is of course easier when taking an extreme example which will
follow

telling and a person and emstraing the power tocarry out the threat if
if doesn't learn to flap his arms and fly the will be killed and the
wholepopulation of the killed first in front of him is plenty of
motiviation to learn to fly it is still impoosible

more on point you calim that the only reason I for example don't have
an extra class licnse today ist that I am not motivated enough to learn
code

I tired for years and great effort to learn but failed utterly the
reason for my lack an extra class license is not motivation but a lack
of abilty


Motivation versus a lack of motivation *is* exactly why we have a
population of citizens with various educational, vocational, and
wealth differences.

no it isn't or at least not entirely

I am not lawyer making millions at least in parts becuase I find mthe
conduct that would be required to sickening, and if some one car to say
my spelling is the problem then the blame falls on the factI got a
diffeent set of wetware than the rest of you

you have repated the standrad lie we have seen in all politics at one
time or another that all with less than another deserve their fate
becuase they were lazy

that John Kerry is not president of the USA is not a matter thathe
wasn't motivated enough. or do you claim thats it is

I thought he was going to win at one point. I beleive he lost in part
for making a tactical error in dealing the swift boat ads

your blanket stement that motivation equals succes is a lie

plain and simple

Motivation is the key to everything. Study and you'll become what
you wish; if you do not study you'll never become anything.

a lie jeff and a dangerous one

Jeff KH6O


--
Chief Petty Officer, U.S. Coast Guard
Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System

On 1 Jan 2006 02:19:56 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman) wrote
in :

wrote:


On 31 Dec 2005 01:52:05 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman)
What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.


a simple lie one of the core lies told by on the side of the ProCode
test issue
in may case it borders on being a personal slander but that is all to
comon too

Claiming motivation or a lack of is a lie? How so? Back up your claim
with facts.

Motivation versus a lack of motivation *is* exactly why we have a
population of citizens with various educational, vocational, and
wealth differences.

Motivation is the key to everything. Study and you'll become what
you wish; if you do not study you'll never become anything.


The problem is that what motivates you isn't necessarily the same
thing that motivates everyone else, and maybe not even a majority.









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Frank Gilliland wrote:
On 1 Jan 2006 02:19:56 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman) wrote
in :

wrote:


On 31 Dec 2005 01:52:05 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman)
What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.


a simple lie one of the core lies told by on the side of the ProCode
test issue
in may case it borders on being a personal slander but that is all to
comon too

Claiming motivation or a lack of is a lie? How so? Back up your claim
with facts.

Motivation versus a lack of motivation *is* exactly why we have a
population of citizens with various educational, vocational, and
wealth differences.

Motivation is the key to everything. Study and you'll become what
you wish; if you do not study you'll never become anything.


The problem is that what motivates you isn't necessarily the same
thing that motivates everyone else, and maybe not even a majority.

indeed a good point frank one that had escaped my attention at that
point









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Frank Gilliland wrote:

On 1 Jan 2006 02:19:56 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman) wrote

On 31 Dec 2005 01:52:05 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman)
What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.

Motivation versus a lack of motivation *is* exactly why we have a
population of citizens with various educational, vocational, and
wealth differences.
Motivation is the key to everything. Study and you'll become what
you wish; if you do not study you'll never become anything.


The problem is that what motivates you isn't necessarily the same
thing that motivates everyone else, and maybe not even a majority.


Why would you say that's a problem?

The .policy NG was originally created to take the code debate off of
..misc, so I imagine you're on here in order to get the coveted HF
access w/o having to learn the code. Hence, you share a common goal
with many others (HF access). As you say, what motivates one person
(maybe 20m CW DX) can surely differ from what motivates another (maybe
the leisurely 40m daytime nets). Differences in motivation certainly
aren't a problem.

73, Jeff KH6O


--
Chief Petty Officer, U.S. Coast Guard
Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System

On 1 Jan 2006 17:54:00 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman)
wrote:

Frank Gilliland wrote:

On 1 Jan 2006 02:19:56 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman) wrote

On 31 Dec 2005 01:52:05 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman)
What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.

Motivation versus a lack of motivation *is* exactly why we have a
population of citizens with various educational, vocational, and
wealth differences.
Motivation is the key to everything. Study and you'll become what
you wish; if you do not study you'll never become anything.


The problem is that what motivates you isn't necessarily the same
thing that motivates everyone else, and maybe not even a majority.


Why would you say that's a problem?

The .policy NG was originally created to take the code debate off of
.misc, so I imagine you're on here in order to get the coveted HF
access w/o having to learn the code. Hence, you share a common goal
with many others (HF access). As you say, what motivates one person
(maybe 20m CW DX) can surely differ from what motivates another (maybe
the leisurely 40m daytime nets). Differences in motivation certainly
aren't a problem.

you haven't reading Frank very well

you also seem to have overlooked geting an naswer to your question
about proving motivation is every being lie

73, Jeff KH6O

_________________________________________
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http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

On 1 Jan 2006 17:54:00 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman) wrote
in :

Frank Gilliland wrote:

On 1 Jan 2006 02:19:56 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman) wrote

On 31 Dec 2005 01:52:05 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman)
What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.

Motivation versus a lack of motivation *is* exactly why we have a
population of citizens with various educational, vocational, and
wealth differences.
Motivation is the key to everything. Study and you'll become what
you wish; if you do not study you'll never become anything.


The problem is that what motivates you isn't necessarily the same
thing that motivates everyone else, and maybe not even a majority.


Why would you say that's a problem?


Because it's a fact that conflicts with the premises of many of your
opinions.


The .policy NG was originally created to take the code debate off of
.misc, so I imagine you're on here in order to get the coveted HF
access w/o having to learn the code.


You have a vivid imagination, Jeff.


Hence, you share a common goal
with many others (HF access).


Now you're building a house of cards.


As you say, what motivates one person
(maybe 20m CW DX) can surely differ from what motivates another (maybe
the leisurely 40m daytime nets). Differences in motivation certainly
aren't a problem.


Any motivation I have to get an Amateur license is based on my hobbies
of radio, radio communication and electronics, not on any desire to
play "king-of-the-hill" with a bunch of overweight has-beens who have
nothing better to do than to nurture a feeling of self-importance they
have because they teeter on the top step of a very short ladder. That,
IMO, is a problem, because I'm an overweight has-been with -better-
things to do.

And BTW, I have no interest at all in HF; 160m and 6m sound
interesting, as does sat-com and UHF point-to-point networking. I do
plenty of CW (and CCW) on 1750m and below 9kHz, and play with Part 15
on the AM BC band (covert comm is very cool!). I was also a BC
engineer for many years, and have designed, built and operated bigger
HF transmitters and antenna fields than most hams will ever have a
chance to touch. I even have an old AN/FRT-39B that's been sitting in
a van in the parking lot of my shop for about a decade that I've been
meaning to restore but just don't have the interest. So if I want an
Extra ticket with full HF privileges..... hey, not a problem, and you
can bet I'll be heard. The -ONLY- reason I don't is because, like I
said before, I have no "motivation" to be classed with a bunch of
holier-than-thou hammies who think their **** don't stink. And here's
a news-flash, Jeff: Your **** stinks just like everyone else's.

Now..... care to make any more assumptions?










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From: Jeffrey Herman on Dec 31 2005, 6:19 pm
Dec 31 2005, 6:19 pm show options


wrote:
On 31 Dec 2005 01:52:05 GMT, (Jeffrey Herman)

What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.

a simple lie one of the core lies told by on the side of the ProCode
test issue
in may case it borders on being a personal slander but that is all to
comon too

Claiming motivation or a lack of is a lie? How so? Back up your claim
with facts.

Oh, my, we all have to "back up claims with facts" in
order to express OPINIONS?


Motivation versus a lack of motivation *is* exactly why we have a
population of citizens with various educational, vocational, and
wealth differences.

Hay, coach, how's about "backing that up with FACTS?"

It would have been correct if you struck out "motivation"
and replaced it with abilities or aptitudes.


Motivation is the key to everything. Study and you'll become what
you wish; if you do not study you'll never become anything.

The art student with NO art aptitude can study until they
are blue in the face about art, but they will NEVER be a
great artist. They might know a lot about art history and
what others have said is the correct technique with media.

The wannabe sports hero can study their buns off on their
favorite sport, but if they don't have the ability or
aptitude for that sport, they will only amass a mass of
facts and statistics.

If one doesn't have the aptitude for "hearing" morse code
as a "language," all the study in the world will NOT make
them good morsemen.

The word "motivation" has been terribly MIS-USED for years
yet remains a favorite of managers and instructors...and
the fleecers who run "motivation classes" and "motivation
seminars" for money. The fleecer's "motivation" is greed.
The manager who demands all workers be "motivated" doesn't
know how to lead or relate to his people. The instructor
who stressed "motivation" above all doesn't recognize that
students a (1). Required to take certain classes for
credit and otherwise don't give a damn about the subject;
(2). Might be interested - anyway - in the subject and
do NOT need "motivation" exhonerations/nagging.

Too many use "motivation" as a buzz-word substitute for
themselves being "better than others" because they met the
requirements of something and thus like to talk-down to
those who complain about requirements.

We can all ask YOU why YOU are so "motivated" to hold fast
to old requirements in the amateur radio HOBBY and not
permit modernization of regulations?

Amateur radio is NOT a job, NOT a craft, guild, or union.
It is a HOBBY. Hobbies are for personal enjoyment, not
a "contest" needing half-time "motivational" speeches by
self-styled "coaches" urging their players to "win."

wrote:
From: Jeffrey Herman on Dec 31 2005, 6:19 pm
Dec 31 2005, 6:19 pm show options

What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.

Actually, the difference is who met the various requirements and
who didn't.

Motivation versus a lack of motivation *is* exactly why we have a
population of citizens with various educational, vocational, and
wealth differences.

Hay, coach, how's about "backing that up with FACTS?"

It would have been correct if you struck out "motivation"
and replaced it with abilities or aptitudes.

An ability or aptitude is only one factor.

Motivation is the key to everything. Study and you'll become what
you wish; if you do not study you'll never become anything.

The art student with NO art aptitude can study until they
are blue in the face about art, but they will NEVER be a
great artist.

Maybe not.

But they will be a better artist than the person with a high aptitude
for art who never studies.

The wannabe sports hero can study their buns off on their
favorite sport, but if they don't have the ability or
aptitude for that sport, they will only amass a mass of
facts and statistics.

Athletic accomplishment is not developed by "study". It is developed by

training, practice and competition. All the aptitude or ability will
not amount
to anything without training.

Without the ability or aptitude, a person will not become a world-class
athlete. But a person with very little "sports ability" who trains will
be
a better athlete than the person with high aptitude who does not train.

If one doesn't have the aptitude for "hearing" morse code
as a "language," all the study in the world will NOT make
them good morsemen.

There are obviously different levels of Morse Code aptitude. But the
person who does not study will not learn it, regardless of aptitude.

Most people learn to understand and speak a language by the age of
three years, and if the opportunity exists, to read and write by the
age of seven or eight years (if not earlier). Both are much more
complex cognitive tasks than learning Morse Code at 20 wpm or so.

We can all ask YOU why YOU are so "motivated" to hold fast
to old requirements in the amateur radio HOBBY and not
permit modernization of regulations?

I suspect that Jeff's reasons are similar to *your* reasons for
holding fast to old requirements in local real estate zoning and
oppose modernization of those regulations.

Amateur radio is NOT a job, NOT a craft, guild, or union.

That's true.

Does that mean there should be no requirements for it?

No standards? No accomplishments or skills?

You seem to think so.

We have seen what happens to a radio service like that. It's called cb.

From: on Jan 4, 5:21 pm

wrote:
From: Jeffrey Herman on Dec 31 2005, 6:19 pm
Dec 31 2005, 6:19 pm show options


What separates an Extra from an Tech is not a "caste system" but rather
who had the motivation to study versus who didn't.

Actually, the difference is who met the various requirements and
who didn't.

Actually NO. Those who PASSED the tests got theirs.

The TESTS have been largely modified by amateur politics to
reflect what a small, special-interest group desired.

That should be glaringly obvious over the years, resulting in
the Byzantine-structured SIX license classes that existed
prior to Restructuring of 2000.


Motivation versus a lack of motivation *is* exactly why we have a
population of citizens with various educational, vocational, and
wealth differences.

Hay, coach, how's about "backing that up with FACTS?"

It would have been correct if you struck out "motivation"
and replaced it with abilities or aptitudes.

An ability or aptitude is only one factor.

Tsk, tsk, that's so PRIME that there really aren't "any other
factors." :-)


Motivation is the key to everything. Study and you'll become what
you wish; if you do not study you'll never become anything.

The art student with NO art aptitude can study until they
are blue in the face about art, but they will NEVER be a
great artist.

Maybe not.

But they will be a better artist than the person with a high aptitude
for art who never studies.

Nonsense, Jimmie, pure unadulterated NONSENSE. [try not to get
in over your head (again) into areas where you have NO
expertise]

ART is in the DOING. Artists "learn" media by doing. It's the
ONLY way it can be done. All will tell you so. Those who aren't
gifted with the art aptitude APPEAR to "not study" (to non-art
people) only because you can't get into their head, feel their
mind-hand-media coordination, feel their inspiration when their
inner mind guides their hands through their eyes.

"Studying" art consists of a lot of make-work "book learning"
of artists from contemporary to the Old Masters. One absorbs
a lot of facts but NO real relationship to DOING art.


The wannabe sports hero can study their buns off on their
favorite sport, but if they don't have the ability or
aptitude for that sport, they will only amass a mass of
facts and statistics.

Athletic accomplishment is not developed by "study". It is developed by
training, practice and competition. All the aptitude or ability will
not amount to anything without training.

More NONSENSE, Jimmie. You can't make a 140 pound runner into
a football linebacker (college or pro level) through "study"
OR "training, practice, competition." For one thing, the
"training" will result in injuries (when the real linebackers
smoosh then into the ground) so that they can't "practice."
There won't be any "competition" because they can't survive
the "training."

On the same token, it is highly unlikely that the linebacker
physical type will ever develop into the longer-distance runner
due to the body's structure. NO "training, practice,
competition" will result since their bodies aren't capable.

That's just two examples of WHY there are so many kinds of
physical sport.


Without the ability or aptitude, a person will not become a world-class
athlete.

True enough. You are finally coming around to it...

But a person with very little "sports ability" who trains will be
a better athlete than the person with high aptitude who does not train.

Did you watch Texas v. USC in the Rose Bowl Championship game?

The Longhorns were NOT using long-distance runner physique types
for their defensive team.


If one doesn't have the aptitude for "hearing" morse code
as a "language," all the study in the world will NOT make
them good morsemen.

There are obviously different levels of Morse Code aptitude. But the
person who does not study will not learn it, regardless of aptitude.

TRAINING and PRACTICE, Jimmie, NOT "study."

You are disagreeing with yourself.


Most people learn to understand and speak a language by the age of
three years, and if the opportunity exists, to read and write by the
age of seven or eight years (if not earlier). Both are much more
complex cognitive tasks than learning Morse Code at 20 wpm or so.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Human languages are "learnable" because of the
inate ability of humans to relate sounds...tone, pitch, duration,
etc., to concepts, emotions, intellectual information, etc.

"Morse code" is NOT A LANGUAGE per se.

International Morse Code is a REPRESENTATION of the English
language alphanumeric characters (plus most punctuation).

Feel free to study all the languages of the world, be a
linguistic scientist. You will NOT find any human languages
which are based on monotonic bursts of sound.


I suspect that Jeff's reasons are similar to *your* reasons for
holding fast to old requirements in local real estate zoning and
oppose modernization of those regulations.

Total Troll Bull****, Jimmie.

Local Zoning regulations have NOTHING to do with the subject
in this thread.

You've MANUFACTURED an issue which is NOT an amateur radio
policy issue.


Amateur radio is NOT a job, NOT a craft, guild, or union.

That's true.

Does that mean there should be no requirements for it?

No standards? No accomplishments or skills?

You seem to think so.

More Trolling BS, Jimmie. I stated that amateur radio is NOT
a job, NOT a craft, guild, or union. It is NOT professional
by definition of the FCC...that is why the Commission defines
it as AMATEUR radio.

Since amateur radio is NOT a profession, there is NO need to
ACT or PRETEND or falsly-raise-to-professional-standards
ANYTHING that is done in amateur radio. It is basically a
HOBBY and the "accomplishments" and "skills" by individual
hobbyists are venerated in the media, NOT by the Commission.

The FCC REQUIRES certain technical regulations to be met (or
be considered illegal if not within those regulations). Doing
so requires skills, accomplishments in making sure those
REGULATIONS are met...or knowing enough to have others, WITH
skills and accomplishments in metrology, to find out if their
equipment is within regulations.

We have seen what happens to a radio service like that. It's called cb.

Citizens Band Radio Service has evolved since its "Class D"
beginning in 1958, 48 years ago. If there is a "fault" in
CB, that is due mainly to lack of enforcement in the face of
unexpected growth of users through low-cost offshore imports.

There was NEVER any "regulation" stating that CB users must
always act like hams, use the same jargon, use the same
procedures, etc., etc.

Radio amateurs do NOT use the same jargon, procedures, etc.,
as the Aircraft Radio Service.

Radio amateurs do NOT use the same jargon, procedures, etc.,
as the Maritime Radio Service.

Radio amateurs do NOT use the same jargon, procedures, etc.,
as Private Land Mobile Radio Service.

Radio amateurs do NOT use the same jargon, procedures, etc.,
as any of the Military radio services. [ roger that! ]

Radio amateurs do NOT use the same jargon, procedures, etc.,
as the Radio Control Radio Service (Part 95).

Why don't hams emulate one of the other radio services? And
why do so many demand that CB users act, do, talk like they?

Remember that the appelation "ham" derived long ago (about
1900) as an unkind word applied by professional radio
operators towards the amateurs. Amateurs seem to have LIKED
it and, ever since, have pretended to be "as good" and
sometimes (in a fit of grandeur) "better than" (!) the pros.

Ever since the Test-less CB Class D radio service was created
48 years ago, hams have derided it, called it names, denigrated
anyone who used that "new" allocation for Citizens...for NOT
being just like the hams. Hams didn't like the NEW jargon that
evolved (by millions more users than existed in the ham service)
or the use of "10" codes (a la some state police on radio) or
much of anything else about it. Now YOU are joining in the
fray. Why? What has CB done to you? Why do you hate it?

You want to POLICE the CB channels? Feel free. No license
required, purchase a whole set for under $100 at Wal-Mart.
Get on the air on CB, "show them how it is done." Get
MOTIVATED! Be da Man!

:-)