"Jeff Renkin" wrote in message
...
Pretty close. Some of the other digital modes are narrower but as you
state, you need more hardware such as a computer. In addition each of
the
other digital modes has its own unique set of advantages and
disadvantages
in on air operation.

The biggest disadvantage would be narrowing down the percentage of people
on
the other end that would be able to decipher your emergency message.

If you are calling for help, you want as many people on the receiving end
of
your transmission to be able to UNDERSTAND your message as possible.

The emergency broadcast system (now the EAS) works on English Voice, NOT
with
morse code. And it is designed to be used in an emergency. Same
with
police, fire and ambulance radios.

Imagine the president addressing the public with a morse code key.
Might as
well talk to a wall.



In emergencies hams are NOT broadcasting to the public. They are using
their skills to pass messages from the public and emergency services to the
public and emergency services via the ham network. No has to be able to
understand the message while it is in transit except the hams. Thus hams
can and will use any means at their disposal appropriate to the situation,
that includes voice, computer digital modes and good old Morse code.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Jeff Renkin" wrote in message
...
It's been my experience that those who whine the most about the code
requirement are
those who just won't take the time to learn it. Excuses, excuses....

Funny, but most people I hear complaining about the requirement already
learned and passed
the morse code test and are General and Extra license holders.


Strange. That flies in the face of all the available surveys. The General
and higher class operators heavily favor keeping it.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Funny, but most people I hear complaining about the requirement already
learned and passed
the morse code test and are General and Extra license holders.


Strange. That flies in the face of all the available surveys. The General
and higher class operators heavily favor keeping it.

Surveys are never accurate with reality. That is just how unemployed mall
rats who actually talk to telemarketer and clip board survey takers feel.

Of the 15 - 20 ham friends I have, we are all Generals and Extras and ALL
against the morse code requirement. Half of us also hold the GROL commercial
licenses with radar endorsement.

If you know of anyone who is a General or Extra who is for keeping the
requirement, that is because they feel that since they had to do it, everyone
else should have to too. A very childish and selfish emotional reason that is
not based on logic or common sense.

Everyone I know had to take the code test, but we still have sense to know it
was wrong and understood it was only because of the stupid world agreement that
we had to endure it. Now that that excuse no longer applies, everyone is
dropping it. So will the US, but they always have to go through their long
drawn out political ways to make a simple decision take months and years to
finally get something done, even when it is as simple as this. Look how
FAST other governments were able to drop this. Very impressive!

Hey, our ancestors had to own slaves and not allow blacks to use the same rest
rooms and water fountains as whites, so everyone else should have to continue
by those requirements too, right? When we dropped the slavery thing, that
was because people were too lazy to beat slaves and now the world is like
citizens band because we don't have slavery in the US anymore, right?

Yeah, we all had to take the stupid code test. And most of us ended up
forgetting it right after the test because we never used it. We never
intended to use it, but we wanted to use microphones on HF frequencies, so we
had to learn it because of a world agreement. The military dropped code
because there was no world agreement forcing them to keep an outdated
antiquated worthless mode. (the microphone and speaker were since invented,
thus we have telephones in our homes and not telegraphs)

Well, the world finally agreed that the code requirement is silly and dropped
it. But now each country has to do the paperwork to drop it from their
respective country's law books and it is a quick process in efficiently run
countries, but will take months and years in governments like the one in the
USA.

In case you are too slow mentally to realize it, the debates here now are no
longer about if we should keep or drop the requirement, that debate is now over
for good. The new argument is why it is taking the US government so long to
change the wording and text in our laws to reflect the change.

Keeping the requirement when no other country in the world has the requirement
would be even more idiotic than the whole requirement was in the first
place! Surely if you sit and think about that for a while you can see
something as obvious as this.

Then again, you don't even know what the argument is about. You still
think it is about if or not to have the requirement still. It is about the
slowness of the US to change the text of the law.

Obviously it is fact that the requirement will be dropped in the US and every
country in the world (it already has been) it is just a matter of watching
how fast or slow each country's government can rewrite a law if they put effort
into it.

Look how fast the US government could act to change the name of french fries to
freedom fries. They can do it for silly things, why not when it comes to
serious issues?

Billions every month for war against a country that didn't have any WMD just
like they kept saying they didn't, yet not one dollar available for health care
and now more US citizens are without health care and insurance than ever
before.

Yet, knowing and learning morse code is your priority in life. How pathetic.

The last time I used morse code, was decades ago when I had to pass the test at
the FCC field offices a long time ago, never used it once after that. Talk
about lazy, YOU probably only had to receive and recognize a few words and
select a multiple choice answer. We didn't have it that easy, but we don't
start whining that all of you should have to do it the hard way just because we
had to, we realize it is a silly and ridiculous requirement and NO one should
have to take it unless they intend to USE morse code on the bands.

In the later case, even those using 2-meters should have to learn it if they
intend to use it there.
Only makes sense. Something many of you know nothing about.

The biggest disadvantage would be narrowing down the percentage of people
on
the other end that would be able to decipher your emergency message.

If you are calling for help, you want as many people on the receiving end
of
your transmission to be able to UNDERSTAND your message as possible.

The emergency broadcast system (now the EAS) works on English Voice, NOT
with
morse code. And it is designed to be used in an emergency. Same
with
police, fire and ambulance radios.

Imagine the president addressing the public with a morse code key.
Might as
well talk to a wall.



In emergencies hams are NOT broadcasting to the public.

In an emergency anyone is broadcasting to ANYONE that is listening. If you
think a ham or anyone else in an emergency is not going to want a non-ham to
help, or will refuse to deal with a non-ham you are crazy.

In an emergency you can even use frequencies and radios at your access that you
would not normally be licensed to operate on. We are talking about
EMERGENCIES here. No time to waste playing morse code or taking the time to
pound out a cry for help one letter at a time in a mode that only ends up
sounding like silly beeps to most of the people listening on the other end that
would otherwise be hearing your cry for help.

Next time you are stranded in your car and need a tow, why don't you call on
your cell phone and punch our your problem in morse code with the touch tone pad
and see how fast you are able to get any assistance. Your call for assistance
will be taken as a prank phone call and they will hang up on you and you will
remain stranded until you decide to talk into the microphone so that someone can
hear and understand your message.

Common sense folks. You can pretend to say otherwise here on this newsgroup,
but when the real emergency arises, the last thing on your mind will be playing
with morse code! Then see how fast you can use a microphone and your voice!

They are using
their skills to pass messages from the public and emergency services to the
public and emergency services via the ham network. No has to be able to
understand the message while it is in transit except the hams.

MOST hams don't understand morse code either! The no-code tech class has
outnumbered the other license classes for years, and those that did learn the
code only did so to pass the test and many never used it after the test. (like
myself and all my ham friends)

Send code to us and it will be nothing more than beep beep beep beep. I
remember SOS and the letter R for some reason (probably since most repeaters end
with R on their id) but that won't tell me where you are or what the problem
is. Unless you talk to us, you can consider yourself dead in an emergency.

Thus hams
can and will use any means at their disposal appropriate to the situation,
that includes voice,

It sure does.

Jeff Renkin wrote:

Funny, but most people I hear complaining about the requirement already
learned and passed
the morse code test and are General and Extra license holders.


Strange. That flies in the face of all the available surveys. The General
and higher class operators heavily favor keeping it.

Surveys are never accurate with reality. That is just how unemployed mall
rats who actually talk to telemarketer and clip board survey takers feel.

Of the 15 - 20 ham friends I have, we are all Generals

Are you a General or Extra? I don't see a Jeff Renkin or a Jeffrey Renkin listed at
QRZ. What is your call OM?

and Extras and ALL
against the morse code requirement. Half of us also hold the GROL commercial
licenses with radar endorsement.

If you know of anyone who is a General or Extra who is for keeping the
requirement, that is because they feel that since they had to do it, everyone
else should have to too. A very childish and selfish emotional reason that is
not based on logic or common sense.

Everyone I know had to take the code test, but we still have sense to know it
was wrong and understood it was only because of the stupid world agreement that
we had to endure it. Now that that excuse no longer applies, everyone is
dropping it. So will the US, but they always have to go through their long
drawn out political ways to make a simple decision take months and years to
finally get something done, even when it is as simple as this. Look how
FAST other governments were able to drop this. Very impressive!

Hey, our ancestors had to own slaves and not allow blacks to use the same rest
rooms and water fountains as whites, so everyone else should have to continue
by those requirements too, right? When we dropped the slavery thing, that
was because people were too lazy to beat slaves and now the world is like
citizens band because we don't have slavery in the US anymore, right?

Yeah, we all had to take the stupid code test. And most of us ended up
forgetting it right after the test because we never used it. We never
intended to use it, but we wanted to use microphones on HF frequencies, so we
had to learn it because of a world agreement. The military dropped code
because there was no world agreement forcing them to keep an outdated
antiquated worthless mode. (the microphone and speaker were since invented,
thus we have telephones in our homes and not telegraphs)

Well, the world finally agreed that the code requirement is silly and dropped
it. But now each country has to do the paperwork to drop it from their
respective country's law books and it is a quick process in efficiently run
countries, but will take months and years in governments like the one in the
USA.

In case you are too slow mentally to realize it, the debates here now are no
longer about if we should keep or drop the requirement, that debate is now over
for good. The new argument is why it is taking the US government so long to
change the wording and text in our laws to reflect the change.

Keeping the requirement when no other country in the world has the requirement
would be even more idiotic than the whole requirement was in the first
place! Surely if you sit and think about that for a while you can see
something as obvious as this.

Then again, you don't even know what the argument is about. You still
think it is about if or not to have the requirement still. It is about the
slowness of the US to change the text of the law.

Obviously it is fact that the requirement will be dropped in the US and every
country in the world (it already has been) it is just a matter of watching
how fast or slow each country's government can rewrite a law if they put effort
into it.

Look how fast the US government could act to change the name of french fries to
freedom fries. They can do it for silly things, why not when it comes to
serious issues?

Billions every month for war against a country that didn't have any WMD just
like they kept saying they didn't, yet not one dollar available for health care
and now more US citizens are without health care and insurance than ever
before.

Yet, knowing and learning morse code is your priority in life. How pathetic.

The last time I used morse code, was decades ago when I had to pass the test at
the FCC field offices a long time ago, never used it once after that. Talk
about lazy, YOU probably only had to receive and recognize a few words and
select a multiple choice answer. We didn't have it that easy, but we don't
start whining that all of you should have to do it the hard way just because we
had to, we realize it is a silly and ridiculous requirement and NO one should
have to take it unless they intend to USE morse code on the bands.

In the later case, even those using 2-meters should have to learn it if they
intend to use it there.
Only makes sense. Something many of you know nothing about.

"Jeff Renkin" wrote in message
...

In the later case, even those using 2-meters should have to learn it if
they
intend to use it there.
Only makes sense. Something many of you know nothing about.



Since Morse code is used in the HF bands and you need to pass the code test
to get the license to work the HF bands, it seems to make sense to me.

If you really want to work the HF bands, learn code and be done with it. By
your own argument it must make sense.

Craig

"Why should I have to learn to parallel park to get a driver's license.
There are plenty of parking lots/ramps, I'll never need to parallel park,
ever."

Funny, but most people I hear complaining about the requirement already
learned and passed
the morse code test and are General and Extra license holders.


Strange. That flies in the face of all the available surveys. The General
and higher class operators heavily favor keeping it.

Surveys are never accurate with reality. That is just how unemployed mall
rats who actually talk to telemarketer and clip board survey takers feel.

Of the 15 - 20 ham friends I have, we are all Generals

Are you a General or Extra? I don't see a Jeff Renkin or a Jeffrey Renkin listed at
QRZ. What is your call OM?

Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

We may be forced to give out our callsigns on the ham frequencies but anyone that does
it here is just asking for trouble. Might just as well post your real email
addresses here too while you are at it so you can get lots of spam.

Now instead of trying to find my address so you can pull your pranks, why not read the
rest and learn....

and Extras and ALL
against the morse code requirement. Half of us also hold the GROL commercial
licenses with radar endorsement.

If you know of anyone who is a General or Extra who is for keeping the
requirement, that is because they feel that since they had to do it, everyone
else should have to too. A very childish and selfish emotional reason that is
not based on logic or common sense.

Everyone I know had to take the code test, but we still have sense to know it
was wrong and understood it was only because of the stupid world agreement that
we had to endure it. Now that that excuse no longer applies, everyone is
dropping it. So will the US, but they always have to go through their long
drawn out political ways to make a simple decision take months and years to
finally get something done, even when it is as simple as this. Look how
FAST other governments were able to drop this. Very impressive!

Hey, our ancestors had to own slaves and not allow blacks to use the same rest
rooms and water fountains as whites, so everyone else should have to continue
by those requirements too, right? When we dropped the slavery thing, that
was because people were too lazy to beat slaves and now the world is like
citizens band because we don't have slavery in the US anymore, right?

Yeah, we all had to take the stupid code test. And most of us ended up
forgetting it right after the test because we never used it. We never
intended to use it, but we wanted to use microphones on HF frequencies, so we
had to learn it because of a world agreement. The military dropped code
because there was no world agreement forcing them to keep an outdated
antiquated worthless mode. (the microphone and speaker were since invented,
thus we have telephones in our homes and not telegraphs)

Well, the world finally agreed that the code requirement is silly and dropped
it. But now each country has to do the paperwork to drop it from their
respective country's law books and it is a quick process in efficiently run
countries, but will take months and years in governments like the one in the
USA.

In case you are too slow mentally to realize it, the debates here now are no
longer about if we should keep or drop the requirement, that debate is now over
for good. The new argument is why it is taking the US government so long to
change the wording and text in our laws to reflect the change.

Keeping the requirement when no other country in the world has the requirement
would be even more idiotic than the whole requirement was in the first
place! Surely if you sit and think about that for a while you can see
something as obvious as this.

Then again, you don't even know what the argument is about. You still
think it is about if or not to have the requirement still. It is about the
slowness of the US to change the text of the law.

Obviously it is fact that the requirement will be dropped in the US and every
country in the world (it already has been) it is just a matter of watching
how fast or slow each country's government can rewrite a law if they put effort
into it.

Look how fast the US government could act to change the name of french fries to
freedom fries. They can do it for silly things, why not when it comes to
serious issues?

Billions every month for war against a country that didn't have any WMD just
like they kept saying they didn't, yet not one dollar available for health care
and now more US citizens are without health care and insurance than ever
before.

Yet, knowing and learning morse code is your priority in life. How pathetic.

The last time I used morse code, was decades ago when I had to pass the test at
the FCC field offices a long time ago, never used it once after that. Talk
about lazy, YOU probably only had to receive and recognize a few words and
select a multiple choice answer. We didn't have it that easy, but we don't
start whining that all of you should have to do it the hard way just because we
had to, we realize it is a silly and ridiculous requirement and NO one should
have to take it unless they intend to USE morse code on the bands.

In the later case, even those using 2-meters should have to learn it if they
intend to use it there.
Only makes sense. Something many of you know nothing about.

In the later case, even those using 2-meters should have to learn it if
they
intend to use it there.
Only makes sense. Something many of you know nothing about.


Since Morse code is used in the HF bands and you need to pass the code test
to get the license to work the HF bands, it seems to make sense to me.

Morse Code is also used on 6 meters and above! But you don't have to pass a
code test to use them. See?

If it makes sense to you that you need to learn morse code before you are
allowed to talk into a microphone on HF, then we know all we need to know about
you.

Q. Why do we not need to learn morse code on 6 meters and above to talk into
a microphone, and why did we need to learn morse code to talk into a mic below
6 meters?

A. International Law.

But now that International Law has dropped the requirement, you no longer need
to "learn how to ride a horse and surrey before being allowed to drive an
automobile"

If you really want to work the HF bands, learn code and be done with it.

I already learned the code years ago when I got my license. The fact that
you assume that everyone that is against the code requirement did not learn
morse code just shows how limited your mind works.

Likewise, you don't have to be a murderer to know that murder is wrong.

Now make sure your brain is engaged next time before putting your mouth in
gear.
Right everyone?

I totally agree with the comment below.

I used to give my callsign and e-mail address on the NG's and had terrible
grief as a result.
I never flamed anyone and was as diplomatic as possible if I had a different
view or disagreed with a poster.

95% of my posts were to help people. I answered several hundred over a 5
year period.
Being a ham for over 20 years and retired, it gave me a sense of
satisfaction as an Elmer.

Then came the spam, false signups, hate mail, false posts in my name, and
phone calls.
An idiot even cracked my password to QRZ and modified my Bio in a most
hideous way.

Another person here who is female was getting several obscene phone calls a
week when someone used QRZ to find her address, then the phone book for the
number. She had to bring in the authorities to get it stopped.

So that is why so many regular NG posters are anon.

Giving your callsign and true e-mail address DOES NOTHING TO ENHANCE
CREDIBILITY

BEWARE -- Caveat Poster

--
73 From the Spurious Noise ';';;';x":.,";"'

Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you
would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you
trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my
house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

We may be forced to give out our callsigns on the ham frequencies but
anyone that does
it here is just asking for trouble. Might just as well post your real
email
addresses here too while you are at it so you can get lots of spam.

Now instead of trying to find my address so you can pull your pranks, why
not read the
rest and learn....

Jeff Renkin wrote:

Funny, but most people I hear complaining about the requirement already
learned and passed
the morse code test and are General and Extra license holders.


Strange. That flies in the face of all the available surveys. The General
and higher class operators heavily favor keeping it.

Surveys are never accurate with reality. That is just how unemployed mall
rats who actually talk to telemarketer and clip board survey takers feel.

Of the 15 - 20 ham friends I have, we are all Generals

Are you a General or Extra? I don't see a Jeff Renkin or a Jeffrey Renkin listed at
QRZ. What is your call OM?

Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

Hey, Butthead, I looked you up because you claimed to be either a General or an Extra...
you are neither. So why don't you grow up? As someone else said, if you'd put *half* the
effort into learning the code that you do into whining about it you might actually get
somewhere.

Steve, N8KDV, General Class... look it up Butthead!



We may be forced to give out our callsigns on the ham frequencies but anyone that does
it here is just asking for trouble. Might just as well post your real email
addresses here too while you are at it so you can get lots of spam.

Now instead of trying to find my address so you can pull your pranks, why not read the
rest and learn....

and Extras and ALL
against the morse code requirement. Half of us also hold the GROL commercial
licenses with radar endorsement.

If you know of anyone who is a General or Extra who is for keeping the
requirement, that is because they feel that since they had to do it, everyone
else should have to too. A very childish and selfish emotional reason that is
not based on logic or common sense.

Everyone I know had to take the code test, but we still have sense to know it
was wrong and understood it was only because of the stupid world agreement that
we had to endure it. Now that that excuse no longer applies, everyone is
dropping it. So will the US, but they always have to go through their long
drawn out political ways to make a simple decision take months and years to
finally get something done, even when it is as simple as this. Look how
FAST other governments were able to drop this. Very impressive!

Hey, our ancestors had to own slaves and not allow blacks to use the same rest
rooms and water fountains as whites, so everyone else should have to continue
by those requirements too, right? When we dropped the slavery thing, that
was because people were too lazy to beat slaves and now the world is like
citizens band because we don't have slavery in the US anymore, right?

Yeah, we all had to take the stupid code test. And most of us ended up
forgetting it right after the test because we never used it. We never
intended to use it, but we wanted to use microphones on HF frequencies, so we
had to learn it because of a world agreement. The military dropped code
because there was no world agreement forcing them to keep an outdated
antiquated worthless mode. (the microphone and speaker were since invented,
thus we have telephones in our homes and not telegraphs)

Well, the world finally agreed that the code requirement is silly and dropped
it. But now each country has to do the paperwork to drop it from their
respective country's law books and it is a quick process in efficiently run
countries, but will take months and years in governments like the one in the
USA.

In case you are too slow mentally to realize it, the debates here now are no
longer about if we should keep or drop the requirement, that debate is now over
for good. The new argument is why it is taking the US government so long to
change the wording and text in our laws to reflect the change.

Keeping the requirement when no other country in the world has the requirement
would be even more idiotic than the whole requirement was in the first
place! Surely if you sit and think about that for a while you can see
something as obvious as this.

Then again, you don't even know what the argument is about. You still
think it is about if or not to have the requirement still. It is about the
slowness of the US to change the text of the law.

Obviously it is fact that the requirement will be dropped in the US and every
country in the world (it already has been) it is just a matter of watching
how fast or slow each country's government can rewrite a law if they put effort
into it.

Look how fast the US government could act to change the name of french fries to
freedom fries. They can do it for silly things, why not when it comes to
serious issues?

Billions every month for war against a country that didn't have any WMD just
like they kept saying they didn't, yet not one dollar available for health care
and now more US citizens are without health care and insurance than ever
before.

Yet, knowing and learning morse code is your priority in life. How pathetic.

The last time I used morse code, was decades ago when I had to pass the test at
the FCC field offices a long time ago, never used it once after that. Talk
about lazy, YOU probably only had to receive and recognize a few words and
select a multiple choice answer. We didn't have it that easy, but we don't
start whining that all of you should have to do it the hard way just because we
had to, we realize it is a silly and ridiculous requirement and NO one should
have to take it unless they intend to USE morse code on the bands.

In the later case, even those using 2-meters should have to learn it if they
intend to use it there.
Only makes sense. Something many of you know nothing about.

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:07:03 -0500, Spurious Noise wrote
(in message Wihgb.54977$Ms2.1056@fed1read03):

An idiot even cracked my password to QRZ and modified my Bio in a most
hideous way.


During the late 80's and until I retired from the Army in '95, I ran a BBS in
the metro are of DC.

The only reason I ever checked passwords was that, invaribly, when the new
member was a "ham", she or he would use their callsign as the password.

So I would send them a polite message asking that the person change the
password to something not everyone in the world would know.

The general response I got was: "Thanks, I never thought of that".


Were you using your callsign as your password?



Gray Shockley
--------------------------------------------------------
When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one
individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take
command. Very often, that individual is crazy. -Author Unk

I used to give my callsign and e-mail address on the NG's and had terrible
grief as a result.
I never flamed anyone and was as diplomatic as possible if I had a different
view or disagreed with a poster.

95% of my posts were to help people. I answered several hundred over a 5
year period.
Being a ham for over 20 years and retired, it gave me a sense of
satisfaction as an Elmer.

Then came the spam, false signups, hate mail, false posts in my name, and
phone calls.
An idiot even cracked my password to QRZ and modified my Bio in a most
hideous way.

And then the bozos here expect us to give them our callsigns after they have
been trolling and arguing with us first.

Another person here who is female was getting several obscene phone calls a
week when someone used QRZ to find her address, then the phone book for the
number. She had to bring in the authorities to get it stopped.

So that is why so many regular NG posters are anon.

Giving your callsign and true e-mail address DOES NOTHING TO ENHANCE
CREDIBILITY

Besides, there is no way to know that those that are giving call signs are not
just assuming that identity and it is really someone else's call sign or name.

There is no way to verify that ANYONE here is using their real name or call, nor
does it matter. No one should be concerned with anything other than the
statements being made.

Gray Shockley asked "Were you using your callsign as your password?"

No but I used my old expired (for 20 years) callsign, dumb I know as some
sources have your old callsign.
Guess that is how they cracked the password.

But you made a very good point and to add to it -- a regular change of
passwords is a good idea also - which I now do.

My e-mail address is an alias from my provider and I change the alias every
2 months or so depending on spamming. I get very little spam these days. My
friends and relatives are very tolerant of frequent address changes.

Also I ask friends never to send me an e-mail with several others in it --
(i.e., mass sending of jokes as everyone seems to like to do), rather I tell
them to send by using blind copy ONLY --- Bcc. This hides the recipient
list.

Sad commentary on today's society -- BUT one must take steps to prevent
spam, etc.

Also if you put your e-mail address on a web page -- DO NOT PUT IT IN TEXT
FORM -- use a jpeg or gif.
Apparently the spiders can not read the @ sign when it is in picture form.

--
73 From the Spurious Noise ';';;';x":.,";"'
-------------------------------------------------
"Gray Shockley" wrote in message
.com...
On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:07:03 -0500, Spurious Noise wrote
(in message Wihgb.54977$Ms2.1056@fed1read03):

An idiot even cracked my password to QRZ and modified my Bio in a most
hideous way.


During the late 80's and until I retired from the Army in '95, I ran a BBS
in
the metro are of DC.

The only reason I ever checked passwords was that, invaribly, when the new
member was a "ham", she or he would use their callsign as the password.

So I would send them a polite message asking that the person change the
password to something not everyone in the world would know.

The general response I got was: "Thanks, I never thought of that".


Were you using your callsign as your password?



Gray Shockley
--------------------------------------------------------
When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one
individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take
command. Very often, that individual is crazy. -Author Unk

Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

Why would he want to do that?

I don't know, why not ask him? He is the one that for some reason feels the need to know
my name and address. Not needed to have this discussion. I don't need to search and
find some name and call sign that belongs to someone else and pose as that identity as this
guy does. At least I am honest and don't need to hide behind someone else's identity.

All he wants to do is verify that you
actually walk the walk, and anre not just talking the talk. He's
posting his call in the clear,

Who says that is HIS call sign??? Just because someone posts with a real sounding name
or call does not mean it is theirs. I doubt even he would be so stupid to post his real
call sign knowing that his address and other personal info is available to everyone here
and then start causing arguments as he is doing. Then again, he doesn't seem to
understand why learning code has nothing to do with using a microphone, so perhaps he IS
that stupid. Point is, there is no way to know if he stole that call sign or not without
further investigation.

Never assume someone posting with a call sign really owns that callsign.

There is an ancient saying: "On Usenet, nobody knows you're a dog."
Anybody can claim to be anything (or anybody) they wish. The
operative word is "claim."

Exactly. Don't assume he is who he says he is. He just wanted to prove he was a
General and posted with a general's call sign. I could just as easy find an Extra
callsign and pose as that person too. That would not be a nice thing to do, however,
as then this nut will go and vandalize the house and property of some poor guy who had
nothing to do with this argument at all.

You make a rather roundabout claim to to be General or Extra and even
a GROL,

Yeah and I had the first class license too, before they made us turn them in for the GROL
which is nothing more than the same questions that is on the Extra ham exam, only without
the morse code requirement. If you take the Extra, you might as well just sit through
the GROL because most of the questions were taken from one to put on the other.

"Jeff Renkin" wrote in message
...
I used to give my callsign and e-mail address on the NG's and had
terrible
grief as a result.
snipped

I would NEVER give my call sign out over here. It proves nothing. Some could
hack it to make it look as their own, which adds no credibility to it - as
was already stated. OR, as I've seen - some see a call sign and assume
you're being a smart ass trying to prove a point. Nah, that is ok. I can
chat or give advice or viewpoints without divulging my personal info. IF
anyone wanted to find it bad enough I'm sure they could, so let them work
for it if it means that much.
Lou

Steve, N8KDV, General Class... look it up Butthead!

Yeah, we all are supposed to believe that a 50 year old man is going to use phrases like
"butthead" and call names like a school child. Next time steal an identity that is closer
to your age.

It also loses credibility for you to tell other people to learn code, when you pose as a
General who is too lazy to learn and get his Extra class license.

Now that you only have to know 5 wpm to upgrade to Extra which a General would already have
credit for, what is keeping you from upgrading?? Perhaps the questions are too hard for
you. Those are things you should know before operating a transmitter, not morse code.

Hey, if I go find someone else's call sign like you did and post under that, will I then
have the great credibility that you have on this newsgroup to all those gullible enough to
believe that a 50 year old is going to use phrases like "butthead"?

Jeff Renkin wrote:

Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

Why would he want to do that?

I don't know, why not ask him? He is the one that for some reason feels the need to know
my name and address. Not needed to have this discussion. I don't need to search and
find some name and call sign that belongs to someone else and pose as that identity as this
guy does. At least I am honest and don't need to hide behind someone else's identity.

All he wants to do is verify that you
actually walk the walk, and anre not just talking the talk. He's
posting his call in the clear,

Who says that is HIS call sign??? Just because someone posts with a real sounding name
or call does not mean it is theirs. I doubt even he would be so stupid to post his real
call sign

Hey Butthead, I guess I'm that 'stupid', cause it is MY callsign. YOU on the other hand, have
no callsign, but you'd sure like to make us think that you do. Nice try though. Now go study
that code!

knowing that his address and other personal info is available to everyone here
and then start causing arguments as he is doing. Then again, he doesn't seem to
understand why learning code has nothing to do with using a microphone, so perhaps he IS
that stupid. Point is, there is no way to know if he stole that call sign or not without
further investigation.

Never assume someone posting with a call sign really owns that callsign.

There is an ancient saying: "On Usenet, nobody knows you're a dog."
Anybody can claim to be anything (or anybody) they wish. The
operative word is "claim."

Exactly. Don't assume he is who he says he is. He just wanted to prove he was a
General and posted with a general's call sign. I could just as easy find an Extra
callsign and pose as that person too. That would not be a nice thing to do, however,
as then this nut will go and vandalize the house and property of some poor guy who had
nothing to do with this argument at all.

You make a rather roundabout claim to to be General or Extra and even
a GROL,

Yeah and I had the first class license too, before they made us turn them in for the GROL
which is nothing more than the same questions that is on the Extra ham exam, only without
the morse code requirement. If you take the Extra, you might as well just sit through
the GROL because most of the questions were taken from one to put on the other.

Jeff Renkin wrote:

Steve, N8KDV, General Class... look it up Butthead!

Yeah, we all are supposed to believe that a 50 year old man is going to use phrases like
"butthead" and call names like a school child. Next time steal an identity that is closer
to your age.

It also loses credibility for you to tell other people to learn code, when you pose as a
General who is too lazy to learn and get his Extra class license.

Now that you only have to know 5 wpm to upgrade to Extra which a General would already have
credit for, what is keeping you from upgrading?? Perhaps the questions are too hard for
you. Those are things you should know before operating a transmitter, not morse code.

Hey, if I go find someone else's call sign like you did and post under that, will I then
have the great credibility that you have on this newsgroup to all those gullible enough to
believe that a 50 year old is going to use phrases like "butthead"?

Yep, I'm 50 years young Butthead. Nice try. I guess I could upgrade, but why? I rarely get on
the air. But if I did, I'd be operating some CW. You on the other hand don't even have the
opportunity, why?, because you're to damn busy shooting off your mouth. Get to studying!

Jeff Renkin wrote:

Steve, N8KDV, General Class... look it up Butthead!

Yeah, we all are supposed to believe that a 50 year old man is going to use phrases like
"butthead" and call names like a school child. Next time steal an identity that is closer
to your age.

It also loses credibility for you to tell other people to learn code, when you pose as a
General who is too lazy to learn and get his Extra class license.

Pose? Come on Butthead, you can do better than that. If I'm 'posing' (as you are), then someone
better do the right thing and contact the 'real' N8KDV as sonn as possible. LMAO



Now that you only have to know 5 wpm to upgrade to Extra which a General would already have
credit for, what is keeping you from upgrading?? Perhaps the questions are too hard for
you. Those are things you should know before operating a transmitter, not morse code.

Hey, if I go find someone else's call sign like you did and post under that, will I then
have the great credibility that you have on this newsgroup to all those gullible enough to
believe that a 50 year old is going to use phrases like "butthead"?

Herbert West wrote:

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 17:36:01 -0400, N8KDV
wrote:



Jeff Renkin wrote:

Steve, N8KDV, General Class... look it up Butthead!

Yeah, we all are supposed to believe that a 50 year old man is going to use phrases like
"butthead" and call names like a school child. Next time steal an identity that is closer
to your age.

It also loses credibility for you to tell other people to learn code, when you pose as a
General who is too lazy to learn and get his Extra class license.

Now that you only have to know 5 wpm to upgrade to Extra which a General would already have
credit for, what is keeping you from upgrading?? Perhaps the questions are too hard for
you. Those are things you should know before operating a transmitter, not morse code.

Hey, if I go find someone else's call sign like you did and post under that, will I then
have the great credibility that you have on this newsgroup to all those gullible enough to
believe that a 50 year old is going to use phrases like "butthead"?

Yep, I'm 50 years young Butthead. Nice try. I guess I could upgrade, but why? I rarely get on
the air. But if I did, I'd be operating some CW. You on the other hand don't even have the
opportunity, why?, because you're to damn busy shooting off your mouth. Get to studying!


Hey Steve... Check this site out! g

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic2/nocode0

73,

Herb N1***

LOL, that's pretty good!

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:42:01 -0500, Spurious Noise wrote:

But you made a very good point and to add to it -- a regular change of
passwords is a good idea also - which I now do.


Even safer is to just use one password once (keep a text file on your desktop
or hot-keyed).


My e-mail address is an alias from my provider and I change the alias every
2 months or so depending on spamming. I get very little spam these days. My
friends and relatives are very tolerant of frequent address changes.

One of my current web site providers allows two hundred e-mail addresses so
I'm thinking about setting up so I know which passwords (if not all sigh)
have been compromised. (however, that's really just curiosity).

I'm pretty crippled up most of the time so I can sit here a lot and it's
sorta fun to watch my spam program do its thing ("Spamfire" for the Macintosh
is a *great* program).


Also I ask friends never to send me an e-mail with several others in it --
(i.e., mass sending of jokes as everyone seems to like to do), rather I tell
them to send by using blind copy ONLY --- Bcc. This hides the recipient
list.

Sad commentary on today's society -- BUT one must take steps to prevent
spam, etc.

Oh, I hack some pretty weird people off (like "nazi's - not under Godwin) but
wacko's quoting their mental dwarf him/itself).

And then they help beta test my despammer grin.


Also if you put your e-mail address on a web page -- DO NOT PUT IT IN TEXT
FORM -- use a jpeg or gif.
Apparently the spiders can not read the @ sign when it is in picture form.


The spiders can't "read" an image - not any of it.

Think of an optical character reader (ocr) and you'll get the "image" dux.
It can read the pages but a "straight" ocr can't do a thing with graphics.


Anyway, I have been on line since 1985 and have always used my name and
city/state.


--
73 From the Spurious Noise ';';;';x":.,";"'
-------------------------------------------------



Gray Shockley
--------------------------
Entropy Maintenance Technician
Tao Chemical Company
--------------------------

http://www.cybercoffee.org/
Vicksburg, Mississippi US

Never anonymous Bud wrote:

Having skipped an E.L.F. meeting to be here, N8KDV
scribbled:

Hey Butthead, I guess I'm that 'stupid', cause it is MY callsign.

I HOPE you have better manners when you're using your radios.

But I'll bet you don't.

You've never made much money betting have you?



To reply by email, remove the XYZ.

Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.

It's your SIG, say what you want to say....

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:08:17 GMT, Jeff Renkin in rec.radio.scanner - :


Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

We may be forced to give out our callsigns on the ham frequencies but anyone that does
it here is just asking for trouble. Might just as well post your real email
addresses here too while you are at it so you can get lots of spam.

Now instead of trying to find my address so you can pull your pranks, why not read the
rest and learn....



LOL, Edna Rimby can copy code at 20 WPM, but I have kept my
identity anon fro the same reason.

Hey Butthead, I guess I'm that 'stupid', cause it is MY callsign.

I HOPE you have better manners when you're using your radios.

Now keep in mind, this is one of those guys that complains we need morse code to
keep the "CB people" off the ham bands.

Yet listen to the ham bands on HF and you hear people like this with phrases
like this all the time.

On CB, you hear nothing but Spanish now.

Since Morse code is used in the HF bands and you need to pass the code test
to get the license to work the HF bands, it seems to make sense to me.

It makes sense to require someone to learn morse code,
when they only want to use the portions of the bands set aside for voice??

Sure! That's why before you can get a license to drive an automobile, you have
to pass a test to show that you can ride a horse first. Or why you can't get
a license to practice law before you can pass a test to show you can bake an
apple pie.

Want to talk into a microphone on HF? Learn morse code first.

Want to use morse code? Learn and pass a test on how to speak and understand
Russian first.

Don't be lazy! All you whiners who want to get on the ham bands and use morse
code without having to learn Russian first stop your complaining and get
studying!

Doesn't matter if you never intend to USE Russian, the purpose of the
requirement is to make it harder for people to get a license. I don't ever
use morse code, but had to learn it before being allowed to talk into a
microphone on HF, so get busy and start learning Russian!

Before you know it, these lazy morse code lovers are going to want to be able to
go to the store and just BUY a gallon of milk without having to take any written
exams first, or be able to walk on the sidewalk for free without having to learn
and pass a test on egyptian hieroglyphics first.

How lazy can you get?

Jeff Renkin wrote:

Since Morse code is used in the HF bands and you need to pass the code test
to get the license to work the HF bands, it seems to make sense to me.

It makes sense to require someone to learn morse code,
when they only want to use the portions of the bands set aside for voice??

Sure! That's why before you can get a license to drive an automobile, you have
to pass a test to show that you can ride a horse first. Or why you can't get
a license to practice law before you can pass a test to show you can bake an
apple pie.

Want to talk into a microphone on HF? Learn morse code first.

Want to use morse code? Learn and pass a test on how to speak and understand
Russian first.

Don't be lazy! All you whiners who want to get on the ham bands and use morse
code without having to learn Russian first stop your complaining and get
studying!

Doesn't matter if you never intend to USE Russian, the purpose of the
requirement is to make it harder for people to get a license. I don't ever
use morse code, but had to learn it before being allowed to talk into a
microphone on HF, so get busy and start learning Russian!

Before you know it, these lazy morse code lovers are going to want to be able to
go to the store and just BUY a gallon of milk without having to take any written
exams first, or be able to walk on the sidewalk for free without having to learn
and pass a test on egyptian hieroglyphics first.

How lazy can you get?

As lazy as you I guess. You don't want to learn code, so be it. Just stop whining
about it, OK?

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:08:17 GMT, Jeff Renkin
wrote:


Are you a General or Extra? I don't see a Jeff Renkin or a Jeffrey Renkin listed at
QRZ. What is your call OM?

Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

We may be forced to give out our callsigns on the ham frequencies but anyone that does
it here is just asking for trouble. Might just as well post your real email
addresses here too while you are at it so you can get lots of spam.

Now instead of trying to find my address so you can pull your pranks, why not read the
rest and learn....

Gee...a straight shootin' lateral thinker (like me) for a change!

Yair... we have the same problem in Oz where some idiots think that
putting a ham callsign at the end of a usenet post is going to provide
some golden aura of revelation about the individual placing the post
and that anyone who doesn't put their ham callsign (if they have one)
on usenet is anonomously 'hiding'.

I mean...you're dead right (and my line of thinking is) that *all*
anyone is going to be able to do with a ham callsign is to run off
like a snivvelling little sneak to a database and (possibly) get a
name and an address. Then what? Are they going to send a posse around
and blow up your household mailbox? Or sit scouring the airwaves
hoping to come across you on-air so that they can give you an earful?

And the argument that putting a ham callsign into a post provides
'credibility' is a load of hooey. Let's face it, if anyone can pirate
a ham callsign on-air...they can sure as hell do it on usenet as well.
And the average newsgroup player would be absolutely *none* the wiser
about the person or the personality on the other end of the post.

Is a mere ham callsign going to tell them anything more about an
already anonomous situation? It is going to tell them whether you're a
beer-swilling yobbo or a connoisseur of fine red wines, or whether you
drive a beat up jalopy or drive a Rolls-Royce.

As I profess, a ham callsign is nothing more than a mere *radio*
transmission identifier and usenet is all about computers, landlines
and stuff. But, no doubt, you have your fair share of poor misguided
souls who seem to think that a ham callsign is some sort of extension
of their personality.

smithxpj wrote:

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:08:17 GMT, Jeff Renkin
wrote:

Are you a General or Extra? I don't see a Jeff Renkin or a Jeffrey Renkin listed at
QRZ. What is your call OM?

Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

We may be forced to give out our callsigns on the ham frequencies but anyone that does
it here is just asking for trouble. Might just as well post your real email
addresses here too while you are at it so you can get lots of spam.

Now instead of trying to find my address so you can pull your pranks, why not read the
rest and learn....

Gee...a straight shootin' lateral thinker (like me) for a change!

Yair... we have the same problem in Oz where some idiots think that
putting a ham callsign at the end of a usenet post is going to provide
some golden aura of revelation about the individual placing the post
and that anyone who doesn't put their ham callsign (if they have one)
on usenet is anonomously 'hiding'.

I mean...you're dead right (and my line of thinking is) that *all*
anyone is going to be able to do with a ham callsign is to run off
like a snivvelling little sneak to a database and (possibly) get a
name and an address. Then what? Are they going to send a posse around
and blow up your household mailbox? Or sit scouring the airwaves
hoping to come across you on-air so that they can give you an earful?

And the argument that putting a ham callsign into a post provides
'credibility' is a load of hooey. Let's face it, if anyone can pirate
a ham callsign on-air...they can sure as hell do it on usenet as well.
And the average newsgroup player would be absolutely *none* the wiser
about the person or the personality on the other end of the post.

Is a mere ham callsign going to tell them anything more about an
already anonomous situation? It is going to tell them whether you're a
beer-swilling yobbo or a connoisseur of fine red wines, or whether you
drive a beat up jalopy or drive a Rolls-Royce.

As I profess, a ham callsign is nothing more than a mere *radio*
transmission identifier and usenet is all about computers, landlines
and stuff. But, no doubt, you have your fair share of poor misguided
souls who seem to think that a ham callsign is some sort of extension
of their personality.

What he's really saying is that if he did have a callsign, (he doesn't), then he wouldn't
even give it out on the air for fear that someone actually might look it up in a database.
LMAO

The key thing here though is that poor Jeff doesn't have a call, and won't have one till
the Morse requirement is dropped.

Never anonymous Bud wrote:

Having skipped an E.L.F. meeting to be here, N8KDV
scribbled:

The key thing here though is that poor Jeff doesn't have a call, and won't have one till
the Morse requirement is dropped.

You have NO proof of that, and you're still a jackass.

Ha! You can't disprove that, and you're a jackass too!



To reply by email, remove the XYZ.

Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.

It's your SIG, say what you want to say....

Are you a General or Extra? I don't see a Jeff Renkin or a Jeffrey Renkin listed at
QRZ. What is your call OM?

Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

We may be forced to give out our callsigns on the ham frequencies but anyone that does
it here is just asking for trouble. Might just as well post your real email
addresses here too while you are at it so you can get lots of spam.

Now instead of trying to find my address so you can pull your pranks, why not read the
rest and learn....

Gee...a straight shootin' lateral thinker (like me) for a change!

Yair... we have the same problem in Oz where some idiots think that
putting a ham callsign at the end of a usenet post is going to provide
some golden aura of revelation about the individual placing the post
and that anyone who doesn't put their ham callsign (if they have one)
on usenet is anonomously 'hiding'.

And keep in mind that many just look up and steal a callsign and identity like this other
guy did. How many 50 year old men do you know going around on newsgroups calling people
"Butthead"?

He made the mistake of not picking a callsign that belonged to someone closer to his real
age.

I mean...you're dead right (and my line of thinking is) that *all*
anyone is going to be able to do with a ham callsign is to run off
like a snivvelling little sneak to a database and (possibly) get a
name and an address. Then what? Are they going to send a posse around
and blow up your household mailbox?

The type of person that goes around calling people names like "Butthead" when there are
statements in a discussion he does not like MIGHT do something like that, yes.

Thus the reason you never post your callsign or personal info. Keep in mind if the
callsign this guy was posting was really his, he would not be calling names and starting
fights for the same reason that everyone can find his name and address too! But since it
is not his callsign, he doesn't care if you would do anything to the house of the poor
person who the callsign really belongs to.

Anyone who would be posting with their REAL callsign would not be stirring up fights with
anyone on a newsgroup, would they? Or course not. His actions and age have shown us
what is going on here.

Or sit scouring the airwaves
hoping to come across you on-air so that they can give you an earful?

He doesn't have a license, or he would not have made the statements he did, like that you
need to learn morse code to get a ham call sign. Any REAL ham knows you don't have to
pass a code test for well over a decade now and can still get a ham license and call
sign. The fact he didn't know this shows he is not a ham.

And the argument that putting a ham callsign into a post provides
'credibility' is a load of hooey.

What it provides, is proof that the person is either an idiot, or that he stole someone
else's callsign.

Let's face it, if anyone can pirate
a ham callsign on-air...they can sure as hell do it on usenet as well.
And the average newsgroup player would be absolutely *none* the wiser
about the person or the personality on the other end of the post.

Except when, as in this case, he steals the callsign of someone who is much older than he
is not knowing the age of the real callsign holder, and makes statements about ham radio
that are not only wrong, but would be something all real hams would know and not make a
mistake about.

Is a mere ham callsign going to tell them anything more about an
already anonomous situation? It is going to tell them whether you're a
beer-swilling yobbo or a connoisseur of fine red wines, or whether you
drive a beat up jalopy or drive a Rolls-Royce.

No, it just provides the guarantee that your house will be egged or rocks will fly through
your windows by some angry teenager that can't stand to lose debates on newsgroups.

As I profess, a ham callsign is nothing more than a mere *radio*
transmission identifier and usenet is all about computers, landlines
and stuff. But, no doubt, you have your fair share of poor misguided
souls who seem to think that a ham callsign is some sort of extension
of their personality.

Or in some cases, belongs to the personality it was stolen from.

Jeff Renkin wrote:

Are you a General or Extra? I don't see a Jeff Renkin or a Jeffrey Renkin listed at
QRZ. What is your call OM?

Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

We may be forced to give out our callsigns on the ham frequencies but anyone that does
it here is just asking for trouble. Might just as well post your real email
addresses here too while you are at it so you can get lots of spam.

Now instead of trying to find my address so you can pull your pranks, why not read the
rest and learn....

Gee...a straight shootin' lateral thinker (like me) for a change!

Yair... we have the same problem in Oz where some idiots think that
putting a ham callsign at the end of a usenet post is going to provide
some golden aura of revelation about the individual placing the post
and that anyone who doesn't put their ham callsign (if they have one)
on usenet is anonomously 'hiding'.

And keep in mind that many just look up and steal a callsign and identity like this other
guy did. How many 50 year old men do you know going around on newsgroups calling people
"Butthead"?

He made the mistake of not picking a callsign that belonged to someone closer to his real
age.

I mean...you're dead right (and my line of thinking is) that *all*
anyone is going to be able to do with a ham callsign is to run off
like a snivvelling little sneak to a database and (possibly) get a
name and an address. Then what? Are they going to send a posse around
and blow up your household mailbox?

The type of person that goes around calling people names like "Butthead" when there are
statements in a discussion he does not like MIGHT do something like that, yes.

Thus the reason you never post your callsign or personal info. Keep in mind if the
callsign this guy was posting was really his, he would not be calling names and starting
fights for the same reason that everyone can find his name and address too! But since it
is not his callsign, he doesn't care if you would do anything to the house of the poor
person who the callsign really belongs to.

Anyone who would be posting with their REAL callsign would not be stirring up fights with
anyone on a newsgroup, would they? Or course not. His actions and age have shown us
what is going on here.

Or sit scouring the airwaves
hoping to come across you on-air so that they can give you an earful?

He doesn't have a license, or he would not have made the statements he did, like that you
need to learn morse code to get a ham call sign. Any REAL ham knows you don't have to
pass a code test for well over a decade now and can still get a ham license and call
sign. The fact he didn't know this shows he is not a ham.

And the argument that putting a ham callsign into a post provides
'credibility' is a load of hooey.

What it provides, is proof that the person is either an idiot, or that he stole someone
else's callsign.

Let's face it, if anyone can pirate
a ham callsign on-air...they can sure as hell do it on usenet as well.
And the average newsgroup player would be absolutely *none* the wiser
about the person or the personality on the other end of the post.

Except when, as in this case, he steals the callsign of someone who is much older than he
is not knowing the age of the real callsign holder, and makes statements about ham radio
that are not only wrong, but would be something all real hams would know and not make a
mistake about.

Is a mere ham callsign going to tell them anything more about an
already anonomous situation? It is going to tell them whether you're a
beer-swilling yobbo or a connoisseur of fine red wines, or whether you
drive a beat up jalopy or drive a Rolls-Royce.

No, it just provides the guarantee that your house will be egged or rocks will fly through
your windows by some angry teenager that can't stand to lose debates on newsgroups.

As I profess, a ham callsign is nothing more than a mere *radio*
transmission identifier and usenet is all about computers, landlines
and stuff. But, no doubt, you have your fair share of poor misguided
souls who seem to think that a ham callsign is some sort of extension
of their personality.

Or in some cases, belongs to the personality it was stolen from.

Hey Butthead, it's really my call... you're wrong again, as you have been all along.

Steve
Holland, MI

Drake R7, R8 and R8B
BC-895, PRO-2045

The key thing here though is that poor Jeff doesn't have a call, and won't have one till
the Morse requirement is dropped.

People have been getting ham call signs for over a decade now because the Morse Code
requirement WAS dropped that long ago. If you were really a ham, you would have known that.

If the code requirement was truly what was preventing me from getting a call, I could still
have gotten a call over 10 years ago. And in the same 1x3 format that the call you are
posting under is.

So now that we all know (and you have just now learned) that I indeed could have a callsign
without knowing morse code, not posting it must instead be for the same reason I don't post my
social security number, real email address, and mother's maiden name on newsgroups, because
only uneducated people make that mistake. There are too many people like you out there
that use that information to hurt people just because they can't have civil debates and
discussions like mature adults.

You have made too many mistakes in your statements that a real ham would not have made. You
also go around name calling with names that a 50 year old man would not use. But since you
had no way of knowing the age of the holder of the call sign you are using, you didn't know
that until now. Perhaps in a few weeks you will come back posting under a different call
sign.

Since you claim to be a general that passed the code requirement, and since you don't need to
ever take a code test again to upgrade to Extra... Why don't you have an Extra class
license? Surely you can memorize the answers to the written part? Cripes, 8 year old
children are getting their Extra licenses in one sitting, why can't you, since the code is not
even an issue here as it is only 5 wpm across the board (something else you would not know)
and you would not need to take another code test to get your Extra.

See, this makes no sense either and shows contradictions revealing lies.

And the further you try to stand on your lies, the more you will have to create and only dig
yourself deeper into contradictions.

-------------------------------------
I will no longer reply to any idiotic statements made by those just arguing for the sake of
arguing.

The key thing here though is that poor Jeff doesn't have a call, and won't have one till
the Morse requirement is dropped.

You have NO proof of that, and you're still a jackass.

Forget all about that for a minute, and read his statement that I could not have a call sign
until the morse code requirement is dropped. That is very revealing about him! Any
real ham would know this is not true! You can indeed get a call without ever having to
learn morse code, and have been able to do so for more than 10 years now.

So now we have PROOF that he is not a ham, and therefore stole someone else's call sign.

Perhaps we should email the callsign holder at the arrl.net email address that can only be
used by the real holder of the callsign and let the holder know that his call sign is being
used on this newsgroup?

Let's see if he can come back and post the text of that email back here on this group proving
he is the true holder. If he can't do that, then he is not the true holder. We will
wait and see.

Jeff Renkin wrote:

The key thing here though is that poor Jeff doesn't have a call, and won't have one till
the Morse requirement is dropped.

People have been getting ham call signs for over a decade now because the Morse Code
requirement WAS dropped that long ago. If you were really a ham, you would have known that.

Really, guess I'm not a ham then.



If the code requirement was truly what was preventing me from getting a call, I could still
have gotten a call over 10 years ago. And in the same 1x3 format that the call you are
posting under is.

So now that we all know (and you have just now learned) that I indeed could have a callsign
without knowing morse code, not posting it must instead be for the same reason I don't post my
social security number, real email address, and mother's maiden name on newsgroups, because
only uneducated people make that mistake. There are too many people like you out there
that use that information to hurt people just because they can't have civil debates and
discussions like mature adults.

Yep, I'm just looking to hurt poor folk such as yourself. That is indeed what I sppend my entire
day doing. LMAO



You have made too many mistakes in your statements that a real ham would not have made.

Mistakes? Such as?

You
also go around name calling with names that a 50 year old man would not use.

I'm 50, I'm using it Butthead... so once again you are wrong.

But since you
had no way of knowing the age of the holder of the call sign you are using, you didn't know
that until now.

I know the age of the callsign holder perfectly well, after all it is me!

Perhaps in a few weeks you will come back posting under a different call
sign.

I doubt it, I've been posting under this call for a long time.



Since you claim to be a general that passed the code requirement, and since you don't need to
ever take a code test again to upgrade to Extra... Why don't you have an Extra class
license?

Guess I've just never bothered to upgrade. Oh well...

Surely you can memorize the answers to the written part? Cripes, 8 year old
children are getting their Extra licenses in one sitting, why can't you, since the code is not
even an issue here as it is only 5 wpm across the board (something else you would not know)
and you would not need to take another code test to get your Extra.

No kidding.



See, this makes no sense either and shows contradictions revealing lies.

No lies at all Butthead, just your fantasies.



And the further you try to stand on your lies, the more you will have to create and only dig
yourself deeper into contradictions.

-------------------------------------
I will no longer reply to any idiotic statements made by those just arguing for the sake of
arguing.

Jeff Renkin wrote:

The key thing here though is that poor Jeff doesn't have a call, and won't have one till
the Morse requirement is dropped.

You have NO proof of that, and you're still a jackass.

Forget all about that for a minute, and read his statement that I could not have a call sign
until the morse code requirement is dropped. That is very revealing about him! Any
real ham would know this is not true! You can indeed get a call without ever having to
learn morse code, and have been able to do so for more than 10 years now.

So now we have PROOF that he is not a ham, and therefore stole someone else's call sign.

Perhaps we should email the callsign holder at the arrl.net email address that can only be
used by the real holder of the callsign and let the holder know that his call sign is being
used on this newsgroup?

I don't have an email address at the arrl.net site. I'm not even a member of the ARRL. LMAO



Let's see if he can come back and post the text of that email back here on this group proving
he is the true holder. If he can't do that, then he is not the true holder. We will
wait and see.

Anyone who would be posting with their REAL callsign would not be stirring
up fights with
anyone on a newsgroup, would they? Or course not.

Believe me -- even if you do not flame or stir up a fight,
Even if you are very diplomatic in taking exceptions.
Or if you are female.
The nuts will sooner or later come after you.

Anon In Key Largo

Jeff Renkin wrote in message
In emergencies hams are NOT broadcasting to the public.

In an emergency anyone is broadcasting to ANYONE that is listening. If you
think a ham or anyone else in an emergency is not going to want a non-ham to
help, or will refuse to deal with a non-ham you are crazy.

If I'm on a ham band calling for help, I don't expect non hams to be
listening.
If there are, well, so much the better, but I would never *expect* any
to be listening. If I get on a ham band, I'm transmitting to other
hams, and other hams only. If I want a non ham, I would get on my cell
phone or yell real loud.


In an emergency you can even use frequencies and radios at your access that you
would not normally be licensed to operate on. We are talking about
EMERGENCIES here. No time to waste playing morse code or taking the time to
pound out a cry for help one letter at a time in a mode that only ends up
sounding like silly beeps to most of the people listening on the other end that
would otherwise be hearing your cry for help.

B.S. Most hams on the HF bands know code well enough to get a simple
message through.
I've actually dealt with a marine emergency on the radio. Have you?
Wanna know how the boat got our attention though all the noise on 40m?
CW. They were too weak to get through on fone until we actually knew
they were there. After they got our attention, yes, we went to phone.
Mainly because the coast guard station in Miami was on phone.


Next time you are stranded in your car and need a tow, why don't you call on
your cell phone and punch our your problem in morse code with the touch tone pad
and see how fast you are able to get any assistance. Your call for assistance
will be taken as a prank phone call and they will hang up on you and you will
remain stranded until you decide to talk into the microphone so that someone can
hear and understand your message.

Yea right....Any other goofy "no one in their right mind" scenarios
you want to dream up?

Common sense folks. You can pretend to say otherwise here on this newsgroup,
but when the real emergency arises, the last thing on your mind will be playing
with morse code! Then see how fast you can use a microphone and your voice!

Speed is not usually an issue. Solid copy is more important. Sure, I
would try to use phone if possible. But if not, I can get the job done
on CW. Can you? I guess they would die. Too bad....Another day ,
another $2.34 ...


They are using
their skills to pass messages from the public and emergency services to the
public and emergency services via the ham network. No has to be able to
understand the message while it is in transit except the hams.

This is true.

MOST hams don't understand morse code either! The no-code tech class has
outnumbered the other license classes for years, and those that did learn the
code only did so to pass the test and many never used it after the test. (like
myself and all my ham friends)

"Most" hams on HF do though. At least well enough to tell someone is
trying to call them. Myself, I know code fast enough to keep up with
just about anyone. They can send 50 wpm, and I'll still copy just
fine. I can send or receive a message using CW just about as fast as
voice. To me, CW is almost voice. Just really monotone...

Send code to us and it will be nothing more than beep beep beep beep. I
remember SOS and the letter R for some reason (probably since most repeaters end
with R on their id) but that won't tell me where you are or what the problem
is.

That is a personal problem that shouldn't be confused this with "us".
I wouldn't be so fast to speak for all of hamdom. All of us semi-old
farts ain't dead yet.

Unless you talk to us, you can consider yourself dead in an
emergency.

Not me. I'd fix his ass up right fast. He can use any freaking mode he
wants.
I'm not particular. CW, RTTY, PSK, SSB, AM, FM, hell, I don't
care...Whatever works on their end.

Thus hams
can and will use any means at their disposal appropriate to the situation,
that includes voice,

It sure does.

It sure does. BTW, I could care less about the code or no-code debate.
This is just addressing overall sillyness in thinking. MK

Never anonymous Bud wrote:

Having skipped an E.L.F. meeting to be here, N8KDV
scribbled:

Really, guess I'm not a ham then.

I think we were ALL coming to that conclusion.

And yet once again Bud, your conclusion is incorrect. It must really suck to be
you. Oh well...



To reply by email, remove the XYZ.

Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.

It's your SIG, say what you want to say....

In an emergency anyone is broadcasting to ANYONE that is listening. If you
think a ham or anyone else in an emergency is not going to want a non-ham to
help, or will refuse to deal with a non-ham you are crazy.

If I'm on a ham band calling for help, I don't expect non hams to be
listening.

Actually MORE people who are not hams could be listening with their scanners than hams
with their 2-meter radios. You just don't know they are there because they can't
talk back, but they are listening. Just like when the cops say things they
shouldn't on their radios because they think the only ones listening are the other
cops.

If there are, well, so much the better, but I would never *expect* any
to be listening. If I get on a ham band, I'm transmitting to other
hams, and other hams only.

Even with that mindset, MOST hams don't understand morse code, especially those that
would be on 2-meters which would most likely the band you would use to call for help.

If I want a non ham, I would get on my cell
phone or yell real loud.

Ham or not, you would use the cellphone if you had one over any ham radio.

In an emergency you can even use frequencies and radios at your access that you
would not normally be licensed to operate on. We are talking about
EMERGENCIES here. No time to waste playing morse code or taking the time to
pound out a cry for help one letter at a time in a mode that only ends up
sounding like silly beeps to most of the people listening on the other end that
would otherwise be hearing your cry for help.

B.S. Most hams on the HF bands know code well enough to get a simple
message through.

Most hams only learn the code to pass the test, then never use it after that. You
are also not going to be using an HF radio to call for help, you would use the 2-meter
radio. God help you if you had to use the HF radio to get help! Keep in mind
what frequencies and bands the police, fire and paramedics use, and why they don't use
HF for emergency radio use. They also don't know or ever use morse code in any
emergency. In fact in disasters such as hurricanes and earthquakes when we assist
them with our equipment and resources, we don't ever use morse code either, we use
voice every time.

I've actually dealt with a marine emergency on the radio. Have you?

No, all mine have been on land, but I am prepared to do so. The testing
requirements for getting a GROL means you know what frequencies to monitor, and at
what times you have to be monitoring them and all that other good stuff relating to
marine emergencies, even though I got the license for broadcast use. Actually, now
the GROL doesn't even have any broadcast use, but some stations still like to see that
you have it if you want to be chief engineer. It is not required, but they like if
you have it. But getting it means you are tested on all this stuff too.
Interesting enough, morse code was never a requirement for that.

Even when there was the First Class Radiotelephone Operators License for chief
engineers of Broadcast stations, there was no code requirement. You could be
working on and operating transmitters operating on 50,000 watts of power and not need
to know code, but for a citizen's hobby ham radio license where most are using
substantially less power, you needed to know code. It was an international
requirement, although Japan found a nice way to get around it, and the US decided that
you could get out of the international agreement by getting a doctor's note.

Lazy handicapped people? Or is it that when you are handicapped or injured in an
emergency, you may not be able to operate a code key, only a microphone??? Aha!

Wanna know how the boat got our attention though all the noise on 40m?
CW.

That doesn't do any good to those monitoring for a "mayday" like every GROL licensee
is doing. No mention of Morse Code is ever brought up. You are to ask for help
with the international distress call of MAYDAY.

They were too weak to get through on fone until we actually knew
they were there. After they got our attention, yes, we went to phone.

Of course you did. You needed to know where they were and all the other details.
If they had to pound it out one letter of the alphabet at a time with morse code, they
would have been dead before the message ever got out.

Mainly because the coast guard station in Miami was on phone.

That's right. They don't use morse code, and neither does the military. Neither
do ANY emergency services like Police, Fire, Paramedics. No time to play around
with morse code in a real emergency. If it had ANY sort of advantage at all, they
would require the military, police, fire and paramedics to learn it. But they
don't, do they? Of course not. Case closed.

Next time you are stranded in your car and need a tow, why don't you call on

your cell phone and punch our your problem in morse code with the touch tone pad
and see how fast you are able to get any assistance. Your call for assistance
will be taken as a prank phone call and they will hang up on you and you will
remain stranded until you decide to talk into the microphone so that someone can
hear and understand your message.

Yea right....Any other goofy "no one in their right mind" scenarios
you want to dream up?

Wow, you didn't even comprehend what you read, did you? It was meant to be a goofy
scenarios that would never happen, it was an example of the type of crap the morse
code people always bring up. Glad to hear you think it is goofy like I do, but too
bad you didn't even read what it said before you commented on it.

You just proved you are not reading any of these statements, just looking where a
paragraph ends and then making up an argument for the sake of argument.

Now everyone here knows you are a troll.

Jeff Renkin wrote:

In an emergency anyone is broadcasting to ANYONE that is listening. If you
think a ham or anyone else in an emergency is not going to want a non-ham to
help, or will refuse to deal with a non-ham you are crazy.

If I'm on a ham band calling for help, I don't expect non hams to be
listening.

Actually MORE people who are not hams could be listening with their scanners than hams
with their 2-meter radios. You just don't know they are there because they can't
talk back, but they are listening. Just like when the cops say things they
shouldn't on their radios because they think the only ones listening are the other
cops.

If there are, well, so much the better, but I would never *expect* any
to be listening. If I get on a ham band, I'm transmitting to other
hams, and other hams only.

Even with that mindset, MOST hams don't understand morse code, especially those that
would be on 2-meters which would most likely the band you would use to call for help.

If I want a non ham, I would get on my cell
phone or yell real loud.

Ham or not, you would use the cellphone if you had one over any ham radio.

In an emergency you can even use frequencies and radios at your access that you
would not normally be licensed to operate on. We are talking about
EMERGENCIES here. No time to waste playing morse code or taking the time to
pound out a cry for help one letter at a time in a mode that only ends up
sounding like silly beeps to most of the people listening on the other end that
would otherwise be hearing your cry for help.

B.S. Most hams on the HF bands know code well enough to get a simple
message through.

Most hams only learn the code to pass the test, then never use it after that. You
are also not going to be using an HF radio to call for help, you would use the 2-meter
radio. God help you if you had to use the HF radio to get help! Keep in mind
what frequencies and bands the police, fire and paramedics use, and why they don't use
HF for emergency radio use. They also don't know or ever use morse code in any
emergency. In fact in disasters such as hurricanes and earthquakes when we assist
them with our equipment and resources, we don't ever use morse code either, we use
voice every time.

I've actually dealt with a marine emergency on the radio. Have you?

No, all mine have been on land, but I am prepared to do so. The testing
requirements for getting a GROL means you know what frequencies to monitor, and at
what times you have to be monitoring them and all that other good stuff relating to
marine emergencies, even though I got the license for broadcast use. Actually, now
the GROL doesn't even have any broadcast use, but some stations still like to see that
you have it if you want to be chief engineer. It is not required, but they like if
you have it. But getting it means you are tested on all this stuff too.
Interesting enough, morse code was never a requirement for that.

Even when there was the First Class Radiotelephone Operators License for chief
engineers of Broadcast stations, there was no code requirement. You could be
working on and operating transmitters operating on 50,000 watts of power and not need
to know code, but for a citizen's hobby ham radio license where most are using
substantially less power, you needed to know code. It was an international
requirement, although Japan found a nice way to get around it, and the US decided that
you could get out of the international agreement by getting a doctor's note.

Lazy handicapped people? Or is it that when you are handicapped or injured in an
emergency, you may not be able to operate a code key, only a microphone??? Aha!

Wanna know how the boat got our attention though all the noise on 40m?
CW.

That doesn't do any good to those monitoring for a "mayday" like every GROL licensee
is doing. No mention of Morse Code is ever brought up. You are to ask for help
with the international distress call of MAYDAY.

They were too weak to get through on fone until we actually knew
they were there. After they got our attention, yes, we went to phone.

Of course you did. You needed to know where they were and all the other details.
If they had to pound it out one letter of the alphabet at a time with morse code, they
would have been dead before the message ever got out.

Mainly because the coast guard station in Miami was on phone.

That's right. They don't use morse code, and neither does the military. Neither
do ANY emergency services like Police, Fire, Paramedics. No time to play around
with morse code in a real emergency. If it had ANY sort of advantage at all, they
would require the military, police, fire and paramedics to learn it. But they
don't, do they? Of course not. Case closed.

Next time you are stranded in your car and need a tow, why don't you call on

your cell phone and punch our your problem in morse code with the touch tone pad
and see how fast you are able to get any assistance. Your call for assistance
will be taken as a prank phone call and they will hang up on you and you will
remain stranded until you decide to talk into the microphone so that someone can
hear and understand your message.

Yea right....Any other goofy "no one in their right mind" scenarios
you want to dream up?

Wow, you didn't even comprehend what you read, did you? It was meant to be a goofy
scenarios that would never happen, it was an example of the type of crap the morse
code people always bring up. Glad to hear you think it is goofy like I do, but too
bad you didn't even read what it said before you commented on it.

You just proved you are not reading any of these statements, just looking where a
paragraph ends and then making up an argument for the sake of argument.

Now everyone here knows you are a troll.

And that you are one helluva idiot!