Clifton T. Sharp Jr. ...
^ Frank wrote:
^ Soliloquy .. .
^ ^ If the pay is so low, what attracts people to become
^ ^ police anyway?
^
^ The glory. The recognition as a hero. Just look at the
^ statement that someone else made in response to your
^ message:
^
^ "How many lives did you save last week?"
^
^ That was me. Never a cop, but I did do volunteer emergency
^ services work, and I didn't do it for glory or hero worship.

I think you should examine your motivation in making your statement "How many
lives did you save last week?". That statement would probably be made out of
jealousy or self-importance. Glory, self-importance, a desire for recognition
-- they're all basically the same in this context.

Why do people do dangerous jobs? Either for the glory, the money, or, more
rarely, because it is something important that must be done. Most of those
who think they are in the latter category only think it. Few people would
admit to themselves that they do something only for the glory it brings so
they convince themselves that they do it for the reasons that everyone thinks
they do it for. This is a defense mechanism that the brain handles with very
little, if any, conscious thought. And very few people will readily admit
that they do something because they want to be a hero.

Frank

"Frank" wrote in message
news:01c3ab6f$76e0cf30$0125250a@mxdulebfmqtxlczq.. .
Soliloquy .. .

^ If the pay is so low, what attracts people to become
^ police anyway?

The glory. The recognition as a hero. Just look at the statement that
someone
else made in response to your message:

"How many lives did you save last week?"

That is what attracts most people to dangerous jobs. If the money isn't
there
then it is for the glory. So we give them their glory.

Frank


For the record, there are no such things as BORN heros. NO ONE in their
right mind goes into the EMS/FIRE/POLICE service OR Military for that matter
to "BE" a hero. Usually the only "heros" are DEAD heros. ANYONE who goes in
to a scene regardless the type with the tunnel vision of becoming a hero, is
a hinderance to ALL at the scene. THEY lose track of all training, signs of
danger, and thus place themselves and/or many others in danger. SHOULD
someone save a life, they may be called a hero.. BUT YOU DON"T GO LOOKING
FOR IT. ANYONE who HAS joined the services for that reason are in it for the
WRONG reason. AND - I don't know about the other states, but here in PA, it
is at last check - 85% VOLUNTEER. WE DO NOT GET PAID to learn how to save
lives and property. Our families get little in return if we are disabled or
killed in the line of duty and we're no longer able to supply the income. WE
DO IT BECAUSE WE CARE. WE NEVER KNOW when that call minor or major as it be,
will be our last.

YOU WANT HEROS? Continue to look to the Sports arenas. THEY are too busy
trying to be heros. WE who take our jobs seriously - do NOT look to be
heros. Give us our due for doing our jobs paid or volunteer and call it a
day. G.W.

Ghost writer ...

^ NO ONE in their right mind goes into the EMS/FIRE/POLICE
^ service OR Military for that matter to "BE" a hero.

Whether they are in their "right mind" or not, there are a great many who do.
I spent 25 years working in dangerous jobs and being an observer of people
and their behaviors I've learned that most people go into a dangerous job for
the glory they perceive it will bring them. Once they are in the job and have
gone through the education, the training, and the drills much of their desire
for glory is suppressed, but there is still enough of it there to keep them
from leaving the job.

Frank

The mystical Frank, observer of humanity, sagely penned:

I spent 25 years working in dangerous jobs and being an observer of people
and their behaviors I've learned that most people go into a dangerous job for
the glory they perceive it will bring them.

I wish you'd provide some documentation on this interesting perception of
yours. What exactly did you do, to gain this insight?

Not trying to initiate a flame-war, mind you, but your perceptions and
experiences and mine are diametrically opposed, and it piques my curiosity.

Once they are in the job and have
gone through the education, the training, and the drills much of their desire
for glory is suppressed, but there is still enough of it there to keep them
from leaving the job.

You know, I've worked for a major municipal police department, and a few
smaller agencies, over the years. Nearly all of the agencies make it clear,
*very* early in the recruiting process, that glory, acclaim, etc., etc., have
nothing whatever to do with the job and, if one is seeking that, to go
elsewhere and save everyone a lot of time and trouble.

They literally try to persuade everyone from entering the job because of the
perceptions most civilians have about the work, due mainly to television and
idiotic thriller films.

I know that recently a major city department was hiring non-sworn (civilian)
personnel to work as crime scene technicians, and of course they had these
potential employees 'browse' through a color 'scrapbook' detailing exactly what
they'd be facing on the job.

Many of them left at that point, and many others left within the first week of
on-the-job training, which was the best for everyone involved.

Glory? LOL...don't make me laugh.

Again...if you want glory, go into professional sports. Or politics g.




James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

"WilleeCue" wrote in
:

First, the job is reasonably safe. OSHA cannot insure that a 1500 HP
motor, driving 2 stages of compressors, will not throw it's coupler with
disastrous results when a compressor fails. It has thrown them through
walls, the motor subsequently catching on fire. Heavy industry utilizes
complex and potentially dangerous equipment as a requisite to their
function. The circuit breakers for the 13800 volt equipment are the size
of a refrigerator. Why don't police just insist of their supervisors
that their jobs be made safe?

Concerning your second premise, from listening to the police radio, and
with Pittsburgh suffering budget problems and police force cuts, I have
seen calls go for half an hour before they have someone to dispatch to
the scene (a recent call, the first responders from the fire department
had come across an accident of a pickup truck hitting a car, and the
pickup driver fled by foot. The fireman notified the police on the radio
that the perpetrator was running down so and so, but the police replied
that they had no units. 20 Minutes later, the fireman called the police
again and was informed that there were still no units. Finally 30
minutes later a lieutenant came in on the issue and finally arranged for
a car to be sent). Even calls with violence, such as violent domestics,
have had to wait 15 minutes or more before a unit is available. In a
twist on your issue about calling the police, if I was at home and heard
a noise, I get the gun first, and then call the police next. Home
invasions are increasingly common here, calling the police will get
nothing but someone to write up the report.

Examine the public servants at Columbine that hid outside while students
and a teacher bled to death.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/...in286144.shtml

or he oops, one of those forgivable police shootings?

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/m...20020109.shtml

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/...in322513.shtml

Where was that bravado that you speak about?

Police, they are no better than the rest of us. They have made a career
choice, hopefully they honor their choice by working in a dignified way.

By militarizing the police, they are distanced from the citizens that
they supposedly "serve". Some time ago, in a story on Waco, it was
pointed out why local police should handle such issues, not Federal
lackeys. Since the local police have to live with the local populations,
their actions will be tempered by their desire not to alienate
themselves from their communities. Federal lackeys have no such fear,
they go home when the "objective" has been achieved.

Few of you seem to find any fault with the police, or in worshipping the
police in a manner that people have been taught to worship soldiers. (By
this I mean driving people into a patriotic fervor). As I have posted
earlier, blind fervor is easily exploited by those in power. That's why
I say to "support" the police that honor the job and badge, not worship
police collectively. By honoring incompetent police, dishonorable
police, or police involved in criminal activity, you dishonor those
truly deserving "respect".




Yes public servants can quit when faced with possible death and so can
you. The big difference is that they don't!
In private industry you got any brains you would tell your supervisor
that there is a likelihood of you getting injured or killed and refuse
to do the job until it was safe.

If you call and tell the police someone is in your house with a gun
what do you expect them to do?
What would you do if your neighbor called you some night and told you
that? Would you run over there and confront the intruder or would you
tell him to call the police?

I think the big difference is that our public servants are expected
not to avoid or run from dangerous situations.
In industry OSHA demands you stop work if you think there is any
danger of death or injury.

When was the last time you walked into a bank or store thinking you
might get shot?
Every time a police officer in uniform walks in one he damm well
better be thinking just that.

Hope this helps explain just a few of the differences between their
job and yours.

William Lee

WilleeCue wrote:

I think the big difference is that our public servants are expected not to
avoid or run from dangerous situations.

I know that in many departments, there is a specific mention of 'cowardice' in
the policy manuals, and failing to perform one's assigned duties because of
'fear' is reason for disciplinary action including termination of employment.

And of course, there are specific laws on the books (in certain jurisdictions)
that apply specifically to law enforcement officers (including unpaid
volunteers), and not other public service personnel, which the non-sworn person
doesn't have to bother with.

Check also into the "Garrity Rule", which is highly interesting. After all,
who said that one has to give up one's civil rights just because one is
employed as a law enforcement official? Most police departments apparently
feel that way, hence the "Garrity Rule" for officers.







James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

Frank wrote:

Either for the glory, the money, or, more
rarely, because it is something important that must be done. Most of those
who think they are in the latter category only think it.

Err, what precisely is your point, Frank? Obviously, if one thinks something,
that person thinks it. Perhaps an exploration of the basics of elementary
logic is in order g. Or, quote the dictum, "I think, therefore, I exist"
(usually mis-translated into "I think, therefore, I am."). But I digress.

Few people would
admit to themselves that they do something only for the glory it brings so
they convince themselves that they do it for the reasons that everyone thinks
they do it for.

I admit it...I live only for the 'glory' of shoveling the remains of a
decomposing suicide victim...and a murder victim...mother and daughter...off a
floor in a stifling apartment on a typical August afternoon in New Orleans.

Or the 'glory' of trying to work a scene where the remains of someone's head is
literally raining off the ceiling, making the paperwork a wee bit messy, after
someone 'checked out' with a 12-gauge shotgun.

I particularly reveled in the 'glory' of recovering two teenaged girls' bodies
off the muddy floor of a stinking, polluted lake after they drowned on a hot
July afternoon (and yes, this is all documented).

Glory? Not even close, Frank. But these little jobs...and lots, *lots*
more..have to be handled by professionals, and it sure as hell isn't for
'glory'...come to think of it, I don't remember anyone asking for my autograph
or endorsement after I've emerged, reeking, from a multiple homicide case.

Hero? LOL...that's for sports fans and little kids.


James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

Ghost writer wrote:

You know, many years back, my team was called...our of our jurisdiction...to
handle an overturned 18-wheeler blocking a roadway.

When we got there, we discovered that the driver was pinned inside the cab, and
screaming for help. The tank...filled with gasoline...had split, and the
gasoline was literally pouring out and rapidly filling in the little ditch we
were working in, trying to extricate the driver.

It was an extremely interesting experience, trying to get the driver out of the
truck and continue breathing in the unbelievable fumes from the gasoline...I
was up midway to my shins at one point!

Somehow we got the guy out without anyone (including us) being incinerated; we
got him to the hospital for treatment (he did fine), and of course the entire
team had to go off duty and discard our ruined clothing.

I think my first shower was an hour long, and I smelled like a fuel farm for a
week.

We all got sick from inhaling the gasoline fumes of course, and, as a reward,
the driver slapped us with a huge civil suit!

Yes, the intense 'glory' of public service work....the heady feel of being a
'hero'....

LOL










James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

Soliloquy, comparing working in an industrial environment to street police
work, wrote;

Why don't police just insist of their supervisors
that their jobs be made safe?

LOL...because it's impossible. 'Safety' is, after all, a relative term...I
feel 'safer' solo cave diving deep in a Florida cave than I do in early morning
traffic, because there are less variables to contend with, and most all of them
I've anticipated and have trained and equipped myself to deal with.

Besides, OSHA regulations don't apply to government agencies...including the
police.

Simply put, you get the best training and equipment you can afford, and do your
best. That's about as safe as you can get.

I have
seen calls go for half an hour before they have someone to dispatch to
the scene

Again, your convoluted logic escapes me. You wrote that Pittsburgh is
suffering budget problems and police force cuts, and still, you expect every
call for service to be answered as fast as they come in? It's not going to
happen; even here, the day watch inraviably rolls out with anywhere from 10-30
calls backlogged. More calls come in than Officers to handle them, and, with
budget constraints and police being terminated due to budget cuts, the
situation just gets worse. Of course calls get priority dispatching, but it's
not the cops' fault if mebbe 10-50 cops are trying to handle perhaps problems
emanating from 35,000 to 500,000 people. It's the system...yet of course, you
blame the police.

Even calls with violence, such as violent domestics,
have had to wait 15 minutes or more before a unit is available.

Yes...there's just so much work that can be accomplished in a given time by a
given number of people to handle it.

In a
twist on your issue about calling the police, if I was at home and heard
a noise, I get the gun first, and then call the police next. Home
invasions are increasingly common here, calling the police will get
nothing but someone to write up the report.

I think you are being prudent in arming yourself in such a situation. And what
of the rural counties where perhaps the nearest law enforcement officer is an
hour away? Of course it happens...but do you really think that all of this is
due to the fault of the individual officers?

Examine the public servants at Columbine that hid outside while students
and a teacher bled to death.

Those people were following established policies in effect at the time...do you
really expect that police agencies have a little book that covers *all*
eventualities?


Police, they are no better than the rest of us. They have made a career
choice, hopefully they honor their choice by working in a dignified way.

I'm interested in the context and manner in which you might define 'better',
but that is another issue. I, too, hope that all law enforcement
officials...indeed, every person...performs their jobs/duties in a dignified
manner.

By militarizing the police, they are distanced from the citizens that
they supposedly "serve".

Wow...talk about bouncing off into a tangent!

Are you now going to raise the hoary old use of the term "serve and protect"?
Incidentally, that is a city's motto, not a universal policy for all police all
over the nation. Several cities have adopted the motto, but what it means is
that police protect the public by serving the law. Look it up if you disagree.

Some time ago, in a story on Waco, it was
pointed out why local police should handle such issues, not Federal
lackeys. Since the local police have to live with the local populations,
their actions will be tempered by their desire not to alienate
themselves from their communities.

I personally believe that the Waco incident was completely mishandled, and I
agree here with your assessment.

Few of you seem to find any fault with the police, or in worshipping the
police in a manner that people have been taught to worship soldiers.

LOL...what is it with you and this constant use of the term 'worship'? I've
served in two branches of the U.S. armed forces, and in law enforcement, and if
people were worshipping me and my colleagues, I'd sure like to know about it
g.

By honoring incompetent police, dishonorable
police, or police involved in criminal activity, you dishonor those
truly deserving "respect".

Now, on that, we are on complete and total agreement, sir. Fire the
incompetents and prosecute the criminals, by all means.

Cheers....

James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

In article ,
othanks says...
But describing police officers as 'idiots with guns', etc, isn't particularly
funny, nor do I think the miserable 'cops & donut shop' quips as being funny,
either,

Im not the one that made that remark. Someone got things all screwed up
when they was replying and now makes it look like I was the one that
said the stupid stuff.
--
Dwayne
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BC895/