"Frank" wrote in
news:01c3ab23$4c84c300$0125250a@scpubymccaxpczis:

I don't believe that it is that simple. I know the danger is there, I
just choose to believe that I can manage it. Gambling with a hedged bet,
the hedge being assiduous attention to safety and procedures. Working
with "greens" (uncomfortable clothing meeting fire resistance
standards), respirator or breathing air (SCBA), metatarsal shoes, safety
glasses, fall harnesses, gloves, and hard hat.

I could take my pay up with my employer, and I'd be informed that I have
the option of quitting, just like police officers do.

The same is true of the police. They don't believe that they will be the
ones shot. Hopefully they won't. They hedge their bets with training and
discipline. The Pittsburgh Police are supposed to be some of the highest
paid officers in the nation. I don't believe that with major police
departments, the pay is so low that we need to woo the officers with
feigned attention. If the pay is so low, what attracts people to become
police anyway? Too many times the wrong thing attracts them. Power.

Of the police, let me say, I do not have the fortitude to see what they
see. The end results of rape, domestic violence, murder, auto accidents,
broken families, alcoholism, senior citizens living alone and calling
the police in the middle of the night from fear of a noise (the police
attempting to comfort such people), the ravages of drugs, mentally
disturbed poeple, suicides, abandoned children, etc. etc. etc.

I do not have the courage to do their jobs. In some ways it's easier to
risk your own life than it is to see others in the throes of loosing
theirs.

Even though, Worship should be reserved for God, not cops.

Of your Patriotism angle, read the following:

Hermann Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall, speaking at the Nuremberg
Trials following WWII

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm

"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a
farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it
is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people
don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in
Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the
country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to
drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no
voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the peacemakers For lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same in any country."

By this one can infer that blind patriotism essentially makes people
chumps. Blind cop worship does the same thing.

Regards



Public servants are given the extra attention to help compensate for
their low pay. The public does not want to pay them more and they
don't want them to quit, thus the extra attention. With other
dangerous jobs, such as "Siloliquy's", the pay is not usually
determined by the public. In those jobs if they think their pay
doesn't compensate for the danger they should take it up with their
employer.

Their is also the patriotism angle that we saw with this last war. The
public can be made to appreciate the actions of the government more by
commending our heroes -- their sons and daughters.

It is nothing more than a tool.

Frank

The same is true of the police. They don't believe that they will be the
ones shot. Hopefully they won't. They hedge their bets with training and
discipline.

LOL...my years of training and experience didn't prevent a young man from
fracturing my lower spine with his Ford Expedition last year when he tried to
kill me. Of course he is suing me now for 'false arrest', which is amusing,
considering his propensities and record.

BTW, I'm not working, I've lost my job, and my savings are just about used up.
I can always sue my former employer if I have a beef about it, but what's the
use?

If the pay is so low, what attracts people to become
police anyway?

This is one of those questions that is truthfully answered this way: if you
have to be told the answer, you'd never understand it anyway. Of course, some
people become public servants to serve their communities, some people like the
action, and others have a need to help in whatever way they can. Remember that
there are *lots* of reserve police officers, fire fighters, and EMTs who serve
*without* any pay or benefits.

Too many times the wrong thing attracts them. Power.

Power? Are you serious? Are you familiar with the Garrity Rule? No, it's not
worth explaining all this to you, you obviously have some sort of problem with
authority figures, and it's not up to me to address that issue. But if you
sincerely think that people become cops for 'power', you really need some
reality.

Worship should be reserved for God, not cops.

LOL...where do you get these notions? Cops...worshipped? shaking head in
disbelief.

Blind cop worship does the same thing.

Wow...you are really interesting.


James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

Soliloquy .. .

^ If the pay is so low, what attracts people to become
^ police anyway?

The glory. The recognition as a hero. Just look at the statement that someone
else made in response to your message:

"How many lives did you save last week?"

That is what attracts most people to dangerous jobs. If the money isn't there
then it is for the glory. So we give them their glory.

Frank

I too worked as a civil servant, for a State agency as a matter of
fact. However, I didn't work as a firefigher or police officer--I
was a highway maintenance worker for my state's Department of
Transportation.

People here have mentioned how dangerous that firefighting and police
work are, and yes, I do agree. But, have you ever thought about how
dangerous highway maintenance work is. Not only is your health
threatened by the "everyday" work of things such as: getting squashed
by heavy equipment (2 years ago, a collegue was squashed to death when
a 20000 pound dump truck accidentally backed over him), injuring
yourself with the physically demanding work, risk of skin cancer, and
the list goes on and on, just like other jobs...

But, how many of you have ever stood in a highway lane while literally
hundreds, if not thousands, of vehicles pass by you at arms-length
distances, traveling at speeds of 65-80+ mile per hour! Traffic is
going by so often and so fast, that you as a person cannot keep track
of it.

And I've heard about job recognition, especially when a worker is
killed in the line of duty. It is a proven fact, in my State at least,
a highway worker has, by far, a more dangerous job--there are far more
highway workers injured and killed on the job than police and fire
personnel combined. Here's a thought: in my State, when a State
police officer is killed in the line of duty, he/she has a HUGE
State-sponsored memorial, and among other things, has an entire
freeway named after him/her. However, what does a highway worker get
when killed in the line of duty? His/her name included to the growing
list of a tiny 2 feet by 2 feet plaque, and that's pretty much it! No
memorial, no mention of his name in the news media...

So, these kinds of civil servants receive very little, if any,
recognition for how they put their life on the line. Not to mention
their tiny salaries, compared to the other "dangerous" civil servant
jobs out there. Public servant salaries are public record. Check
the websites of any public agency--you'll see. And yes, they do save
literally hundreds, if not thousands of lives every day (in a round
about way, of course). Would you survive if your car was swallowed up
by a 8-foot-deep sink hole while going 70 mph down the freeway? Heck,
who do you thing is usually the first on scene of a freeway crash?
Highway maintenance workers. Numerous times, I was the first on scene
to provide life-saving methods to injured persons...

But, the only public recognition we get is that "one-figered
greeting", or the blare of the horn, or even persons stopping to
threaten you. All for making them just a bit late while providing
them with an efficient means to drive their prescious vehicles.

Every job has its perks and negatives...

But, how many of you have ever stood in a highway lane while literally
hundreds, if not thousands, of vehicles pass by you at arms-length
distances, traveling at speeds of 65-80+ mile per hour!

I have, and I've never liked the experience. I well remember one afternoon,
while working a scene, that some moron sideswiped me close enough to tear my
uniform pants and knock me a few feet back from the point of impact. I was
*not* amused.

On another occasion I had my foot crushed, but managed (with difficulty) to
complete my assignment before I sought medical help.

LOL...on *another* occasion I was shot in the leg while working a protective
detail at a 'peace march'; later, my supervisor asked why I was walking 'kinda
funny' and I showed him the wound, and he chewed me out for not reporting it
earlier. No big deal.

Here's a thought: in my State, when a State
police officer is killed in the line of duty, he/she has a HUGE
State-sponsored memorial, and among other things, has an entire
freeway named after him/her.

In Louisiana, I know of a State officer who was run down and killed by a drunk
driver, and he got no memorial whatsoever.

I remember this because I used to work with him. His name was Sgt. Gilbert
Mast, and his killer, Josh Gimelstob, got the usual 'slap on the wrist'
punishment.

You can still read the specifics of that case on the Internet; I know of yet
another Louisiana officer who was stabbed to death in the line of duty, but
can't find anything on the 'net in reference to it.

Perhaps different States honor their personnel in different ways.

Not to mention
their tiny salaries, compared to the other "dangerous" civil servant
jobs out there. Public servant salaries are public record. Check
the websites of any public agency--you'll see.

So, what's your beef? In my last job, as a State police officer, I had not
only the 'regular' duties, but also had to take on the additional
responsibilities of Crime Scene Investigator, Intelligence Officer, and
High-Tech Crime Investigator, as well as Training Officer.

I got paid for one job, of course, and yes, as you see from public records, I
was paid the princely sum of $1367 a month. This was in 2002, by the way.

Plus of course I had to supply my own sidearm, ammunition, etc.

I couldn't afford the medical insurance package, so I did without it.

Yes indeed, all that 'big money' and glory out there, ripe for the taking.

Heck,
who do you thing is usually the first on scene of a freeway crash?

The drunk driver and the victim?

Every job has its perks and negatives...

That's something we both agree on g.


James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

"Frank" wrote in message
news:01c3ab6f$76e0cf30$0125250a@mxdulebfmqtxlczq.. .
Soliloquy .. .

^ If the pay is so low, what attracts people to become
^ police anyway?

The glory. The recognition as a hero. Just look at the statement that
someone
else made in response to your message:

"How many lives did you save last week?"

That is what attracts most people to dangerous jobs. If the money isn't
there
then it is for the glory. So we give them their glory.

Frank


For the record, there are no such things as BORN heros. NO ONE in their
right mind goes into the EMS/FIRE/POLICE service OR Military for that matter
to "BE" a hero. Usually the only "heros" are DEAD heros. ANYONE who goes in
to a scene regardless the type with the tunnel vision of becoming a hero, is
a hinderance to ALL at the scene. THEY lose track of all training, signs of
danger, and thus place themselves and/or many others in danger. SHOULD
someone save a life, they may be called a hero.. BUT YOU DON"T GO LOOKING
FOR IT. ANYONE who HAS joined the services for that reason are in it for the
WRONG reason. AND - I don't know about the other states, but here in PA, it
is at last check - 85% VOLUNTEER. WE DO NOT GET PAID to learn how to save
lives and property. Our families get little in return if we are disabled or
killed in the line of duty and we're no longer able to supply the income. WE
DO IT BECAUSE WE CARE. WE NEVER KNOW when that call minor or major as it be,
will be our last.

YOU WANT HEROS? Continue to look to the Sports arenas. THEY are too busy
trying to be heros. WE who take our jobs seriously - do NOT look to be
heros. Give us our due for doing our jobs paid or volunteer and call it a
day. G.W.

Ghost writer ...

^ NO ONE in their right mind goes into the EMS/FIRE/POLICE
^ service OR Military for that matter to "BE" a hero.

Whether they are in their "right mind" or not, there are a great many who do.
I spent 25 years working in dangerous jobs and being an observer of people
and their behaviors I've learned that most people go into a dangerous job for
the glory they perceive it will bring them. Once they are in the job and have
gone through the education, the training, and the drills much of their desire
for glory is suppressed, but there is still enough of it there to keep them
from leaving the job.

Frank

The mystical Frank, observer of humanity, sagely penned:

I spent 25 years working in dangerous jobs and being an observer of people
and their behaviors I've learned that most people go into a dangerous job for
the glory they perceive it will bring them.

I wish you'd provide some documentation on this interesting perception of
yours. What exactly did you do, to gain this insight?

Not trying to initiate a flame-war, mind you, but your perceptions and
experiences and mine are diametrically opposed, and it piques my curiosity.

Once they are in the job and have
gone through the education, the training, and the drills much of their desire
for glory is suppressed, but there is still enough of it there to keep them
from leaving the job.

You know, I've worked for a major municipal police department, and a few
smaller agencies, over the years. Nearly all of the agencies make it clear,
*very* early in the recruiting process, that glory, acclaim, etc., etc., have
nothing whatever to do with the job and, if one is seeking that, to go
elsewhere and save everyone a lot of time and trouble.

They literally try to persuade everyone from entering the job because of the
perceptions most civilians have about the work, due mainly to television and
idiotic thriller films.

I know that recently a major city department was hiring non-sworn (civilian)
personnel to work as crime scene technicians, and of course they had these
potential employees 'browse' through a color 'scrapbook' detailing exactly what
they'd be facing on the job.

Many of them left at that point, and many others left within the first week of
on-the-job training, which was the best for everyone involved.

Glory? LOL...don't make me laugh.

Again...if you want glory, go into professional sports. Or politics g.




James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

Ghost writer wrote:

You know, many years back, my team was called...our of our jurisdiction...to
handle an overturned 18-wheeler blocking a roadway.

When we got there, we discovered that the driver was pinned inside the cab, and
screaming for help. The tank...filled with gasoline...had split, and the
gasoline was literally pouring out and rapidly filling in the little ditch we
were working in, trying to extricate the driver.

It was an extremely interesting experience, trying to get the driver out of the
truck and continue breathing in the unbelievable fumes from the gasoline...I
was up midway to my shins at one point!

Somehow we got the guy out without anyone (including us) being incinerated; we
got him to the hospital for treatment (he did fine), and of course the entire
team had to go off duty and discard our ruined clothing.

I think my first shower was an hour long, and I smelled like a fuel farm for a
week.

We all got sick from inhaling the gasoline fumes of course, and, as a reward,
the driver slapped us with a huge civil suit!

Yes, the intense 'glory' of public service work....the heady feel of being a
'hero'....

LOL










James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

Not sure how MY name got affixed to the story below, that certainly wasn't
MY story! Tags are getting confused here! G.W.

"James S. Prine" wrote in message
...
Ghost writer wrote:

You know, many years back, my team was called...our of our
jurisdiction...to
handle an overturned 18-wheeler blocking a roadway.

When we got there, we discovered that the driver was pinned inside the
cab, and
screaming for help. The tank...filled with gasoline...had split, and the
gasoline was literally pouring out and rapidly filling in the little ditch
we
were working in, trying to extricate the driver.

It was an extremely interesting experience, trying to get the driver out
of the
truck and continue breathing in the unbelievable fumes from the
gasoline...I
was up midway to my shins at one point!

Somehow we got the guy out without anyone (including us) being
incinerated; we
got him to the hospital for treatment (he did fine), and of course the
entire
team had to go off duty and discard our ruined clothing.

I think my first shower was an hour long, and I smelled like a fuel farm
for a
week.

We all got sick from inhaling the gasoline fumes of course, and, as a
reward,
the driver slapped us with a huge civil suit!

Yes, the intense 'glory' of public service work....the heady feel of being
a
'hero'....

LOL










James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/