"WilleeCue" wrote in
:

First, the job is reasonably safe. OSHA cannot insure that a 1500 HP
motor, driving 2 stages of compressors, will not throw it's coupler with
disastrous results when a compressor fails. It has thrown them through
walls, the motor subsequently catching on fire. Heavy industry utilizes
complex and potentially dangerous equipment as a requisite to their
function. The circuit breakers for the 13800 volt equipment are the size
of a refrigerator. Why don't police just insist of their supervisors
that their jobs be made safe?

Concerning your second premise, from listening to the police radio, and
with Pittsburgh suffering budget problems and police force cuts, I have
seen calls go for half an hour before they have someone to dispatch to
the scene (a recent call, the first responders from the fire department
had come across an accident of a pickup truck hitting a car, and the
pickup driver fled by foot. The fireman notified the police on the radio
that the perpetrator was running down so and so, but the police replied
that they had no units. 20 Minutes later, the fireman called the police
again and was informed that there were still no units. Finally 30
minutes later a lieutenant came in on the issue and finally arranged for
a car to be sent). Even calls with violence, such as violent domestics,
have had to wait 15 minutes or more before a unit is available. In a
twist on your issue about calling the police, if I was at home and heard
a noise, I get the gun first, and then call the police next. Home
invasions are increasingly common here, calling the police will get
nothing but someone to write up the report.

Examine the public servants at Columbine that hid outside while students
and a teacher bled to death.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/...in286144.shtml

or he oops, one of those forgivable police shootings?

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/m...20020109.shtml

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/...in322513.shtml

Where was that bravado that you speak about?

Police, they are no better than the rest of us. They have made a career
choice, hopefully they honor their choice by working in a dignified way.

By militarizing the police, they are distanced from the citizens that
they supposedly "serve". Some time ago, in a story on Waco, it was
pointed out why local police should handle such issues, not Federal
lackeys. Since the local police have to live with the local populations,
their actions will be tempered by their desire not to alienate
themselves from their communities. Federal lackeys have no such fear,
they go home when the "objective" has been achieved.

Few of you seem to find any fault with the police, or in worshipping the
police in a manner that people have been taught to worship soldiers. (By
this I mean driving people into a patriotic fervor). As I have posted
earlier, blind fervor is easily exploited by those in power. That's why
I say to "support" the police that honor the job and badge, not worship
police collectively. By honoring incompetent police, dishonorable
police, or police involved in criminal activity, you dishonor those
truly deserving "respect".




Yes public servants can quit when faced with possible death and so can
you. The big difference is that they don't!
In private industry you got any brains you would tell your supervisor
that there is a likelihood of you getting injured or killed and refuse
to do the job until it was safe.

If you call and tell the police someone is in your house with a gun
what do you expect them to do?
What would you do if your neighbor called you some night and told you
that? Would you run over there and confront the intruder or would you
tell him to call the police?

I think the big difference is that our public servants are expected
not to avoid or run from dangerous situations.
In industry OSHA demands you stop work if you think there is any
danger of death or injury.

When was the last time you walked into a bank or store thinking you
might get shot?
Every time a police officer in uniform walks in one he damm well
better be thinking just that.

Hope this helps explain just a few of the differences between their
job and yours.

William Lee

Soliloquy, comparing working in an industrial environment to street police
work, wrote;

Why don't police just insist of their supervisors
that their jobs be made safe?

LOL...because it's impossible. 'Safety' is, after all, a relative term...I
feel 'safer' solo cave diving deep in a Florida cave than I do in early morning
traffic, because there are less variables to contend with, and most all of them
I've anticipated and have trained and equipped myself to deal with.

Besides, OSHA regulations don't apply to government agencies...including the
police.

Simply put, you get the best training and equipment you can afford, and do your
best. That's about as safe as you can get.

I have
seen calls go for half an hour before they have someone to dispatch to
the scene

Again, your convoluted logic escapes me. You wrote that Pittsburgh is
suffering budget problems and police force cuts, and still, you expect every
call for service to be answered as fast as they come in? It's not going to
happen; even here, the day watch inraviably rolls out with anywhere from 10-30
calls backlogged. More calls come in than Officers to handle them, and, with
budget constraints and police being terminated due to budget cuts, the
situation just gets worse. Of course calls get priority dispatching, but it's
not the cops' fault if mebbe 10-50 cops are trying to handle perhaps problems
emanating from 35,000 to 500,000 people. It's the system...yet of course, you
blame the police.

Even calls with violence, such as violent domestics,
have had to wait 15 minutes or more before a unit is available.

Yes...there's just so much work that can be accomplished in a given time by a
given number of people to handle it.

In a
twist on your issue about calling the police, if I was at home and heard
a noise, I get the gun first, and then call the police next. Home
invasions are increasingly common here, calling the police will get
nothing but someone to write up the report.

I think you are being prudent in arming yourself in such a situation. And what
of the rural counties where perhaps the nearest law enforcement officer is an
hour away? Of course it happens...but do you really think that all of this is
due to the fault of the individual officers?

Examine the public servants at Columbine that hid outside while students
and a teacher bled to death.

Those people were following established policies in effect at the time...do you
really expect that police agencies have a little book that covers *all*
eventualities?


Police, they are no better than the rest of us. They have made a career
choice, hopefully they honor their choice by working in a dignified way.

I'm interested in the context and manner in which you might define 'better',
but that is another issue. I, too, hope that all law enforcement
officials...indeed, every person...performs their jobs/duties in a dignified
manner.

By militarizing the police, they are distanced from the citizens that
they supposedly "serve".

Wow...talk about bouncing off into a tangent!

Are you now going to raise the hoary old use of the term "serve and protect"?
Incidentally, that is a city's motto, not a universal policy for all police all
over the nation. Several cities have adopted the motto, but what it means is
that police protect the public by serving the law. Look it up if you disagree.

Some time ago, in a story on Waco, it was
pointed out why local police should handle such issues, not Federal
lackeys. Since the local police have to live with the local populations,
their actions will be tempered by their desire not to alienate
themselves from their communities.

I personally believe that the Waco incident was completely mishandled, and I
agree here with your assessment.

Few of you seem to find any fault with the police, or in worshipping the
police in a manner that people have been taught to worship soldiers.

LOL...what is it with you and this constant use of the term 'worship'? I've
served in two branches of the U.S. armed forces, and in law enforcement, and if
people were worshipping me and my colleagues, I'd sure like to know about it
g.

By honoring incompetent police, dishonorable
police, or police involved in criminal activity, you dishonor those
truly deserving "respect".

Now, on that, we are on complete and total agreement, sir. Fire the
incompetents and prosecute the criminals, by all means.

Cheers....

James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

Besides, OSHA regulations don't apply to government agencies...including the police.

Really? Where are you? They do apply within the state of California.
Even the State of California itself is no longer exempt...

Besides, OSHA regulations don't apply to government agencies...including
the police.

Really? Where are you? They do apply within the state of California.
Even the State of California itself is no longer exempt...

I'm currently based in Louisiana, and government agencies here, including
police departments, are still exempt from OSHA regulations.

Of course Louisiana is the oddball State in any event; it is the only State in
the country where the laws are based on the old Napoleonic Code while all the
other States use English common law.

I understand that the OSHA exemptions might be coming to an end sooner or
later, but for the time being...well, there it is.

LOL...between the polluted river water, the polluted marshlands and the
polluted air, New Orleans itself should be shut down and sealed off g.





James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

I guess you have your perception of the situation and I have mine.

If my explanation did not make any since to you as to the differences
between the dangers at your job and someone in law enforcement then nothing
I could ever say would.

William Lee


"Soliloquy" wrote in message
4...
"WilleeCue" wrote in
:

First, the job is reasonably safe. OSHA cannot insure that a 1500 HP
motor, driving 2 stages of compressors, will not throw it's coupler with
disastrous results when a compressor fails. It has thrown them through
walls, the motor subsequently catching on fire. Heavy industry utilizes
complex and potentially dangerous equipment as a requisite to their
function. The circuit breakers for the 13800 volt equipment are the size
of a refrigerator. Why don't police just insist of their supervisors
that their jobs be made safe?