dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

When one of my children was clearly getting out of control, I handled it
differently: I TOLD her that her behavior had cost her her privacy
rights, and that I would search her room or listen in on her phone calls
at my discretion.

I did not want to prevent her from ever using the phone -- she did have
some friends who were good for her -- but continuing to eavesdrop from
time to time kept me aware of what she was doing.
--------------------------
People who dishonor their children that way GET dishonored BY their
children. A friend of mine who hated her father used to plant things
in her father's sock drawer for her mother to find, receipts carefully
altered, porno, etc. Those who **** with their kids are destined to be
****ed BY their kids.
Steve

Steve, I started out honoring her: I had to change my ways when she
started DIShonoring me (and herself)
-----------------------
Nope, she was doing what was her RIGHT, and YOU simply didn't LIKE it!

She can't possibly "dishonor herself", that's YOU talking and making
judgements you don't even have a RIGHT to make.


and doing things that were dangerous.
-----------------
Her RIGHT, NOT YOURS!

I've seen what many pricks like you SAY is "dangerous", it being
anything that YOU don't happen to favor, nothing more! If you hadn't
been abusing her rights she'd have had no desire to do anything truly
dangerous. It is your dishonoring abuse of her equality that made her
want to take risks merely to contradict your overbearing attempts at
control!


I did what I felt I had to do to keep her alive -- and that
is NOT an exageration.
----------------------
You drove her to it and then justified it, like chasing a child
toward a cliff.


It turned out she was severely depressed, but
adolescent depression manifests in odd ways, which I did not recognize:
in her case, it was mostly phenominal anger along with acting out.
----------------------------
You don't even grasp WHY she was depressed and angry.
And "acing out" is a misused term by parents like you, more excuse
for what YOU want.

You're incapable because her MIND and THOUGHTS violate your stupid
****ing little religion.


And I think violating their privacy OPENLY does honor them
------------------------------
Nonsense, you're deluding yourself to avoid taking the blame that
is rightfully YOURS for dishonoring her!


-- you tell
them what you are doing, and why, and don't hide it. Sneaking is
dishonorable, but I never did that.
----------------------------------
Sneaking or overt abuse is irrelevant, abuse is abuse.
If they shouldn't do it to you, then you shouldn't do it to them,
or you will certainly incur their hate, wrath, and their urge to
harm you by self-destruction.


FWIW, it worked: I managed to keep her out of several really dangerous
situations, and eventually, the depression was diagnosed and
appropriately treated. She's almost 19 now, not anxious to move out,
going to college, and just came in, told me I looked wonderful, gave me
a kiss on the cheek, agreed to drop me off later today (so DH and I
wouldn't be somewhere with two cars; as a side benefit, it means she
gets to use MY car for the rest of the day), and stayed for a short chat
with me (and her boyfriend) before the two of them went back to her room.
----------------------------------
Play-acting. She hates your guts.


I think our relationship is good.
-----------------------------------
You think what she wants you to. Child becomes the parent.


I know you think your kids never got into serious trouble because you
are such a wonderful parent. It's a lovely theory. But at some point,
other things influence your kids as well -- and when things start to go
badly, you sometimes need different tools.
----------------------------------------
Kids "get into trouble" with illegitimate authority. Everybody does.
Parents who don't try to assume unrightful authority never become
illegitimate, and kids never find cause to rebel against one who is
not trying to interfere with them.


I remember one conversation with this particular daughter, where I said
that, in spite of everything, I thought I'd been a pretty good parent.
She said, "In spite of WHAT?" I didn't want to be insulting -- I mean,
what could I say? After a moment, I said, "In spite of the fact that
my kid's lives are not exactly what I'd dreamed they'd be." She put her
hands on her hips and said, "Well! YOUR job isn't to dream for us.
YOUR job is to just keep us alive until we grow up enough to have our
OWN dreams."

I figure as long as a teenager can put me in my appropriate place like
that, I've done a pretty good job of parenting. Not perfect, Lord
knows, but pretty good.
----------------------------
Now, if you only understood ALL that she meant by that, but she has
given up on that with you, now you're to be coddled and otherwise
ignored. She caught herself and stopped short, having long ago decided
that you're not worth it, and that she shouldn't bother.
Steve