If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
 

" wrote in
oups.com:

Dee Flint wrote:
"Opus-" wrote in message
...

CW is as useful to todays Hams as carpentry is to a mechanic. A good
thing to learn, and potentially useful, but should not be a barrier.


This is where your analogy falls apart. CW is currently very useful to
hams. It is in daily use. However, the arguments have already been
presented and those with closed minds have rejected them.

Pity the morse zealots and their closed minds... :-)




Pity the lazy asses that just want to be appliance operators. They care
nothing for the integrity of the service.

SC

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
 

From: Slow Code on Thurs, Sep 7 2006 11:50 pm

" wrote in
From: Opus- on Wed, Sep 6 2006 11:05 pm
On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 23:43:31 GMT, Slow Code spake

There are two ways to communicate when all you have is a transceiver,
phone, & CW.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG...

It is voice, radiotelegraphy, data, pulse, right off the bat,
plus a few others which you have NO idea they existed for
EMERGENCIES.

Blowcode, you are stuck on HF ham thinking. So were some
other morse zealots and morse bigots in this forum many
years ago. Their scenarios were invalid comic-book stuff
then and now you've just repeated the same. Deja phooey.

On HF you can find some EMERGENCY calling frequencies...but
those aren't on ham bands. I recall only two, one for
maritime, one for civil aviation over-ocean routes. Aviation
has some more but you aren't worth the time to go look them
up in the huge Part 2 regulations of Title 47 C.F.R. Both
are VOICE.

Over or near land the aviation VHF frequency is 121.5 MHz.
Military aviation is 243 MHz. Both are VOICE. Airborne
transponders (those are transmitter-receivers) has a
"squawk" code just for emergencies and, in a pinch, you
can push the IDENT button. Transponder output will auto-
matically show up on ATCRBS radar displays. The little
HTs in military parachute backpacks can do both VOICE
and DME/TACAN (the 'pulse' I mentioned). [you probably
don't know what DME or TACAN are yet they've been around
for a half century.

On waterways (not open ocean) there are VHF frequencies
for EMERGENCIES. VOICE. Go look those up in Part 2.
VHF VOICE is used in the USA in harbors and inland
waterways. Need EMERGENCY frequencies on land? Plenty
of those, band specific, organization specific, freqs
available if you are serious about having to use them.
Those frequencies are kept open 24/7 in most areas and
have emergency power backup. Three major land PLMRS
bands, can you name them? [I didn't think so]

Ever hear of a cellular telephone? By now, I'll bet you
noticed them. One in three Americans have one. Little
1 GHz HTs with lots of added features with tens of
thousands of cell sites to connect to telco. You can
punch up nine-one-one on them same as a wireline phone.
Nine-one-one is operated 24/7, done by professionals.
Cell sites and telephone exchanges all have "floating"
emergency power, can remain operating on AC power outage.

Think you can call for a paramedic with your little "CW"
transceiver, Blowcode? Or a fire truck? Police car?
Sorry, Blowcode, they use VOICE and above 30 MHz.
Some paramedic ambulances have EKG instruments with
radio coupling to a hospital. Some police departments
have data terminals IN their cars (LAPD does as do
many adjacent incorporated cities here).

All you need for phone is a microphone, All you need for CW
is a pencil and paper.

BWAAAAAHAAAA!!!!! How are you on "straight wire CW"
Blowcode? Can you do 'twenty' just rubbing two bare
wires together? [remember, you have to scrape OFF
the insulation to make contact...]

If you had to build a transmitter in an emergency,
a CW transmitter is simpliest to build.

!!!BUILD?!?!?!??? BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!

Is your QST featuring the "Tuna Tin Two" handy and able
to survive a full EMERGENCY environment? Do you have
the parts? Do you have a power-less soldering iron?
Do you know how to use hand tools? [I don't think so]

Once you've cobbled together something that MIGHT work,
HOW DO YOU KNOW? Did you have test equipment that
survived the EMERGENCY, Blowcode? [I'll bet you think
so] How do you know you're on a frequency that you
think is good for emergencies? You do "laying on of
hands" to miraculously make it work? In this (unspecified)
EMERGENCY do you have two functioning hands to use the
tools to 'make' this thing? Will you need AC power
to run it? Will it work on DC? From where will the
electrical power come from? Rub two Handbooks together?
Cobbling together a one-tube transmitter MIGHT be
possible, provided you have plans, the parts, a
suitable tube, and the right values of components
(which you seem to think you 'know' exactly?. It might
take 24 hours or so...at which time the "emergency"
would be over and the 'emergency' victims might be
long dead.

You can spout bull**** bragging only so far. You've
gone too far, Blowcode. You DEMONSTRATE that you can
cobble together a simple 'transmitter' out of a pile
of parts which do NOT know of ahead of time. SHOW US
or someone. Put your money where your big mouth is.

Here's what the right-thinking folks do: Have a radio
or radios ALREADY available for emergencies, along with
a power source, on some 'emergency frequency' that you
KNOW WILL BE HEARD. The "CW-saves-the-day" scenario is
BS that went out before the GMDSS was activated seven
years ago; the USCG is NOT monitoring the 500 KHz "CW"
frequency and neither are many other equivalent national
maritime aid agencies. A few years ago a gal teenager
picked up a call for help on an FRS HT from a stranded
mountain climbing team...voice, not "CW", miles away.
Made the Washington and Oregon newspapers. [FRS isn't
on ham bands, Blowcode, and the gal wasn't a "radio op"]

We are after all technical aren't we?

You (sure as hell) sound like you can barely wire up
a doorbell. With a QST article on it to show you how.

We're not just appliance operators.

Right...in addition you are an unthinking nuisance.

Eliminating CW removes a way we can communicate.

Eliminating a code test does NOT "remove its use."

If morsemanship is so damn good, it DOESN'T NEED
TESTING. Folks will take to it without needing to be
tested if its such a wonderful thing.

A simple way, where all
that's required is an ear, a pencil, and paper, and a skill.

Blowcode, you need a SKULL more than a skill...one
with a working brain inside it. Try to get a new brain. Quickly.

Now go back to reading those comic books from the ARRL.
You know, the "Archie" ones that you saved up long ago.

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
 

On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 23:50:20 GMT, Slow Code spake
thusly:

" wrote in
roups.com:

Dee Flint wrote:
"Opus-" wrote in message
...

CW is as useful to todays Hams as carpentry is to a mechanic. A good
thing to learn, and potentially useful, but should not be a barrier.


This is where your analogy falls apart. CW is currently very useful to
hams. It is in daily use. However, the arguments have already been
presented and those with closed minds have rejected them.

Pity the morse zealots and their closed minds... :-)




Pity the lazy asses that just want to be appliance operators. They care
nothing for the integrity of the service.

Newsflash: ALL radio operators, code or no-code, are "appliance
operators" as you colloquially state. A radio is a means to
communicate. Knowing code just adds another way to use that radio.

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
 

Opus- wrote:
On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 23:50:20 GMT, Slow Code spake
thusly:

" wrote in
roups.com:

Dee Flint wrote:
"Opus-" wrote in message
...

CW is as useful to todays Hams as carpentry is to a mechanic. A good
thing to learn, and potentially useful, but should not be a barrier.


This is where your analogy falls apart. CW is currently very useful to
hams. It is in daily use. However, the arguments have already been
presented and those with closed minds have rejected them.

Pity the morse zealots and their closed minds... :-)


Pity the lazy asses that just want to be appliance operators. They care
nothing for the integrity of the service.

Newsflash: ALL radio operators, code or no-code, are "appliance
operators" as you colloquially state. A radio is a means to
communicate. Knowing code just adds another way to use that radio.

Quite true, Opus! Thank you for pointing that out.

Let us hope that Blowcode sticks to his ARRL "Archie" comic
books while he mimes the "Wizard of Oz's" scarecrow wishing
he had a brain. :-(

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
 

On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 23:50:19 GMT, Slow Code spake
thusly:

There are two ways to communicate when all you have is a transceiver,
phone, & CW. All you need for phone is a microphone, All you need for CW
is a pencil and paper. If you had to build a transmitter in an emergency,
a CW transmitter is simpliest to build. We are after all technical aren't
we? We're not just appliance operators.

Build a transmitter? I could humiliate you there, but that's been done
already.

Eliminating CW removes a way we can communicate. A simple way, where all
that's required is an ear, a pencil, and paper, and a skill.

There is NOTHING about removing code testing that will stop you from
using code. Wanna use code? Go ahead, knock yourself out. You can
hammer on that key all night long, for all anybody cares. Hammer on it
in your sleep. Hammer on it in the shower.

Just don't tell me that I am a bad person if I don't.

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that persondie?Q
 

Anonymous wrote:
Can you explain the service aspects of ham radio ...

From Webster's: "service - an administrative division
of government" In the USA, that means a service TO
the citizens BY the government. The service comes
from the government, not from the citizens.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?Q
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Can you explain the service aspects of ham radio ...

From Webster's: "service - an administrative division
of government" In the USA, that means a service TO
the citizens BY the government. The service comes
from the government, not from the citizens.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

All throughout Title 47 Code of Federal Regulations, the word
"service" is used as the type and kind of radio being regulated.
It is a regulatory term in that context. One can write the FCC
and get that information.

All too often, amateurs who think too much of themselves try to
use "service" as equivalent to some (undefined) "national service"
such as being a part of the military or a government position. :-)

Part 95 describes Citizens Band Radio SERVICE and the Radio
Control Radio SERVICE. :-)

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that persondie?Q
 

***Forgive the top posting***

I was requested to define "Amateur Service" ... what service?

"47 CFR 97.3 Definitions:

(a) Definitions of terms used in Part 97 a

(1) Amateur operator ... redacted
(2) Amateur radio Services ... redacted
(3) Amateur Satellite Service ... redacted
(4) Amateur Service. A radio communication for the purpose of self training,
intercommunication and technical investigations carries out by amateurs, that
is, duly authorized persons interested in the radio technique solely with a
personal aim and without pecuniary interest."

Definitions [a][5] through [a][46] and section [b] in it's entirety have been
excluded.

There are three elements of the amateur service: 1) 'self training' in any and
all aspects of electro-magnetic radio telecommunication [notice this is listed
first]; 2) 'intercommunication' includes talking, satellite techniques,
television techniques [yes, amateurs can design and operate wideband tv],
microwave techniques, digital techniques, spread spectrum techniques, CW, AM,
SSB, FM, etc.; 3) 'technical investigations' include propagation studies at HF,
VHF, UHF and microwave, EME activities, antenna developments, new modulation
modes [particularly in digital communications], error correction techniques in
digital communication, bandwidth compression techniques, and any number of
Physics and Electronic areas of investigation.

Amateur [non financially compensated] radio is much more than buying a box and
using it to just talk with someone. IMO, it is a service wherein the amateur, a
duly authorized person, is committed to self training [education] in some
components of the electromagnetic radio communication arts and sciences.

"Duly Authorized" requires authorization by competent authority after a
demonstration of some related skill or knowledge by the person seeking to be
'duly authorized'. If a demonstrable skill level is NOT required then "Duly
Authorized' does not make sense.

If you just want to talk, the 11 meter band or the FRS will meet your needs.

/s/ DD [AKA Dave]

Anonymous wrote:
Dave Said:


Amateur Radio is a SERVICE!!! If you only think of it as a hobby your thinking
is flawed.


Hi Dave,

I've seen you refer to service vs hobby a number of times in this thread. As a noob here, could you explain
this? What do you mean by 'service'? Getting on, talking to others...communicating with others seems more of
a hobby to me.

Can you explain the service aspects of ham radio that you are referring to....can you define for me 'service'
and why amateur radio is a service to you rather than a hobby?

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
 

It's Not a Code, no code problem, it's a generational problem!



In the past week, the articles that seemed to get the most play on ham sites
were the Southern Border Volunteers and the lack of brotherhood in ham
radio.



I was amazed at the responses that were both negative and critical of
supporting a group that wanted to protect our borders. I suspect some
passengers were probably tsk tsking the only guy in four airplanes with the
guts to do something to stop the rag heads on 9/11. How else can you explain
rag heads armed ONLY with box cutters were able to control three airplanes?
Many of the younger generation find it easier to criticize than take action.



Ham radio went to hell when Dick Bash got involved with his published "cheat
sheets".



This piece is from the prospective of a ham with over 50 years spewing RF
throughout the world. At 68 years of age, I look back at my start in ham
radio, appearing before a steely eyed FCC examiner in Norfolk Virginia. I
missed the distance for a Conditional license by about 11 miles. I had to
walk between school and home in the snow, uphill both ways.



Do I think that everyone should have to do what I did to become a ham?
Nope, I can live with the memorized exams, the no code, etc. Like the
parable of the workers in the vineyard, I accept the rules have changed. At
no place in the parable does it tell the late arriving workers to ridicule
those that worked all day.



Just as sure as these words are on your screen, you too will someday be an
old fart just like me. As you enter the dotage of your life, health concerns
and the condition of your aged friends, becomes more of a concern. We, like
you, used to talk about more contemporary subjects. Unlike a number of you,
we allowed the older folks to have their conversations without ridicule. It
is called respect, and is a two way street. Realize that when I was a newby,
I suffered the same as you at the hands of the old farts. They believed that
for you to enter their group, you should first show respect and learn to
snatch the pebble from their hand.



None of you started in your working life as the CEO of the company, yet many
of today's generation feel that a newly minted license conveys total
knowledge. What you have is a license to learn, take advantage of it and the
brotherhood will naturally follow.



If we all took the time to show each other respect, and be less quick to
judge, not only would ham radio be better, but our lives as well.



wrote in message
oups.com...
Newsflash: ALL radio operators, code or no-code, are "appliance
operators" as you colloquially state. A radio is a means to
communicate. Knowing code just adds another way to use that radio.

Quite true, Opus! Thank you for pointing that out.

Let us hope that Blowcode sticks to his ARRL "Archie" comic
books while he mimes the "Wizard of Oz's" scarecrow wishing
he had a brain. :-(

If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die?
 

Fred Hambrecht wrote:
It's Not a Code, no code problem, it's a generational problem!

In the past week, the articles that seemed to get the most play on ham sites
were the Southern Border Volunteers and the lack of brotherhood in ham
radio.

I was amazed at the responses that were both negative and critical of
supporting a group that wanted to protect our borders. I suspect some
passengers were probably tsk tsking the only guy in four airplanes with the
guts to do something to stop the rag heads on 9/11.

The hijackers on Flight 93 were stopped by more than one guy. And the
people on the other planes did not know the hijackers were on a suicide
mission.

How else can you explain
rag heads armed ONLY with box cutters were able to control three airplanes?

Simple:

- The hijackers killed one or two people who tried to resist.
- Then they said they had a bomb aboard.
- They also said that if the passengers did as they were told, nobody
else would get hurt.

You have to remember that before that terrible morning 5 years ago,
suicide-hijacking was unknown. Hijackers took over planes to get
ransom, or to get transportation somewhere, or for political reasons.
They always had demands and always promised that if their demands were
met, nobody would get hurt or killed. And the conventional way of
dealing with them was to do what they wanted, get the plane on the
ground safely, negotiate, and then go after them on the ground.

All that changed on Sept 11, 2001. Look what happened when that
shoe-bomb guy tried it.

The folks on Flight 93 had two things the people on the other flights
did not:

1) They *knew* the rules had changed - they knew what the hijackers
were going to do.

2) They had time to formulate a plan and time to implement it.

Many of the younger generation find it easier to criticize than take action.

Just like their predecessors.

Ham radio went to hell when Dick Bash got involved with his published "cheat
sheets".

Well, I don't know if it "went to hell" but I agree 100% that Bash's
"cheat sheets" were a very bad thing for amateur radio.

Remember, though, that it was the top folks at FCC who decided not to
prosecute Bash. Lower-level FCC officials had evidence against him, and
wanted to go after him with criminal charges - but the leadership said
no. Those FCC folks who decided to let Bash get away with his "cheat
sheets" almost 30 years ago were not young people then.

This piece is from the prospective of a ham with over 50 years spewing RF
throughout the world. At 68 years of age, I look back at my start in ham
radio, appearing before a steely eyed FCC examiner in Norfolk Virginia. I
missed the distance for a Conditional license by about 11 miles. I had to
walk between school and home in the snow, uphill both ways.

HAW! That's a good one!

Do I think that everyone should have to do what I did to become a ham?
Nope, I can live with the memorized exams, the no code, etc. Like the
parable of the workers in the vineyard, I accept the rules have changed. At
no place in the parable does it tell the late arriving workers to ridicule
those that worked all day.

But is it fair that someone who works an hour should get the same pay
as someone who works ten hours doing the same thing?

Just as sure as these words are on your screen, you too will someday be an
old fart just like me. As you enter the dotage of your life, health concerns
and the condition of your aged friends, becomes more of a concern. We, like
you, used to talk about more contemporary subjects. Unlike a number of you,
we allowed the older folks to have their conversations without ridicule. It
is called respect, and is a two way street. Realize that when I was a newby,
I suffered the same as you at the hands of the old farts. They believed that
for you to enter their group, you should first show respect and learn to
snatch the pebble from their hand.

Well, I'm 52, and next month I will have 39 years as a radio amateur.

None of you started in your working life as the CEO of the company, yet many
of today's generation feel that a newly minted license conveys total
knowledge. What you have is a license to learn, take advantage of it and the
brotherhood will naturally follow.

If we all took the time to show each other respect, and be less quick to
judge, not only would ham radio be better, but our lives as well.

That I can agree with!

73 de Jim, N2EY

Not an appliance operator.