I have read that the best way, quiestest, to hook into a random wire is
at the far end, attach a balun, go thru a ground block attached to a
ground rod, bury the coax as it runs to the house, go thru another
ground block which is connected to another ground rod then into the
house.

I have 2 options here, one is the above (about 150 feet of coax), the
other is to hook into the random at the near end, thru a balun, feed
into the attic to a ground block that has about 40 feet of ground wire
attached coming from the ground rod, then to the receiver.

Which is the better? Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?

Punched down the ground rod and secured the tripod on the boat house
today, just have to decide the antenna hook in.

Gotta love the spring like conditions in mid December to do this. Norm
is high of -3C, tomorrow +12C.


Brian

In article . com,
wrote:

I have read that the best way, quiestest, to hook into a random wire is
at the far end, attach a balun, go thru a ground block attached to a
ground rod, bury the coax as it runs to the house, go thru another
ground block which is connected to another ground rod then into the
house.

I have 2 options here, one is the above (about 150 feet of coax), the
other is to hook into the random at the near end, thru a balun, feed
into the attic to a ground block that has about 40 feet of ground wire
attached coming from the ground rod, then to the receiver.

Which is the better? Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?

Nether, so you might as well go with #2.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Brian,

The Mid-December Weather here in Twain Harte,
{Sierra Nevada Foothills} California today was
Semi-Sunny with Light Snow (~30mm) and -1C Temp

Getting Ready To Hook-Up A Random Wire Antenna -and- Have A Question...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw.../message/11671

Far-End-Fed Inverted "L" Antenna -Reading List-
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e30053633904d9
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...d43c05075de087

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...b3ddbed819958d

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...7711375bb4d0bb


Generally the Far-End feed-point usually produces the
best results : Provided that the Far-End is away from
more sources-of-noise then the Near-End (House Side).
- - - It is not a good idea to run/route your Wire Antenna
Element towards the Utility Poles.

One of the things with the Far-End feed-point is not to have
the Wire Antenna Element come all the way back to the
House. With either the Near-or-Far End feed-point have the
Antenna Element away from the House and away from most
of your 'close-in' sources-of-noise is the better way of Rigging
you Wire Antenna Element.

House to ------- Horizontal Wire
Far-End --------- Antenna Element
Feed-Point ----- Length
150 Feet = = = 120 Feet
120 Feet = = = 100 Feet
80 Feet = = = 64 Feet
75 Feet = = = 60 Feet
60 Feet = = = 48 Feet
50 Feet = = = 40 Feet
Those last few Feet (20%) closest to the House
may be the greatest source of noise-pick-up (80%)
from your total Wire Antenna Element's length.

Note - This is 'if' you have done everything else in
eliminating sources-of-noise in your House and
noise-migration-paths along your Antenna and
Feed-in-Line System.

at least that is how i see it from my 'far-end' - iane ~ RHF
.
.
I-B Somewhere on "The Big Blue Marble"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Marble
{ Earth - The Third Planet from the Sun }
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_planet_from_the_Sun
.
Shortwave Listener Antennas = http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
SWL Antenna Group = http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
.
The Shortwave Listener's Blessing :
SWL BLESSING = http://tinyurl.com/s2bjm
May You Never Tire of Listening to the Radio and Always
have Strong Signals and Noise Free Reception ~ RHF {ibid}
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...a/message/9233
.
Tous Sont Bienvenus ! - - - Groupe par Radio
d'auditeur d'onde courte pour des Antennes de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Alle Sind Willkommen ! - - - Shortwave Radiozuhörer
Gruppe für SWL Antennen
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Tutti Sono Benvenuti ! - - - Gruppo Radiofonico
dell'ascoltatore di onda corta per le Antenne di SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Todos São Bem-vindos ! - - - Grupo de Rádio
do ouvinte do Shortwave para Antenas de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Ð’Ñ�е Ð*адушны ! - - - Группа оператора
на приеме коротковолнового диапазона
Radio дл� Aнтенн SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
¡Todos Son Agradables! - - - Grupo de Radio del oyente
de la onda corta para las Antenas de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
= = = = Plain Old American-English Translation = = = =
All are Welcome - - - To Join the Shortwave Listeners
(SWL) Antenna Group on YAHOO !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
|
|
|
/ \
-------!-------

On Dec 16, 2:25Â*pm, wrote:
-
- I have read that the best way, quiestest,
- to hook into a random wire is at the far end,
- attach a balun,
- go thru a ground block attached to a ground rod,
- bury the coax as it runs to the house,
- go thru another ground block which is
- connected to another ground rod
- then into the house.
-
- I have 2 options here, one is the above
- (about 150 feet of coax),
- the other is to hook into the random at the near end,
- thru a balun,
- feed into the attic to a ground block
- that has about 40 feet of ground wire
- attached coming from the ground rod,
- then to the receiver.
-
- Which is the better? Â*
-
- Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
- expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?
-
- Punched down the ground rod and
- secured the tripod on the boat house today,
- just have to decide the antenna hook in.
-
- Gotta love the spring like conditions
- in mid December to do this. Â*
- Norm is high of -3C, tomorrow +12C.
-
- Brian
.
.
.. .

wrote:

I have read that the best way, quiestest, to hook into a random wire is
at the far end, attach a balun, go thru a ground block attached to a
ground rod, bury the coax as it runs to the house, go thru another
ground block which is connected to another ground rod then into the
house.

I have 2 options here, one is the above (about 150 feet of coax), the
other is to hook into the random at the near end, thru a balun, feed
into the attic to a ground block that has about 40 feet of ground wire
attached coming from the ground rod, then to the receiver.

Which is the better? Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?

The first method is better because you can use a short ground wire
between the balun and the ground rod to make an effective RF ground. The
balun should be located close to the ground (earth) so the grounding
wire to the rod can be kept to a minimum length (no more than 2-feet).
The ground wire in the second method is much too long to be an effective
RF ground. It could act more like an antenna for picking up common mode
noise.

HFguy wrote:

wrote:

I have read that the best way, quiestest, to hook into a random wire is
at the far end, attach a balun, go thru a ground block attached to a
ground rod, bury the coax as it runs to the house, go thru another
ground block which is connected to another ground rod then into the
house.

I have 2 options here, one is the above (about 150 feet of coax), the
other is to hook into the random at the near end, thru a balun, feed
into the attic to a ground block that has about 40 feet of ground wire
attached coming from the ground rod, then to the receiver.

Which is the better? Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?

The first method is better because you can use a short ground wire
between the balun and the ground rod to make an effective RF ground. The
balun should be located close to the ground (earth) so the grounding
wire to the rod can be kept to a minimum length (no more than 2-feet).
The ground wire in the second method is much too long to be an effective
RF ground. It could act more like an antenna for picking up common mode
noise.

Before this thread got started I'd never really heard of the practice of using
the extra length of coax and hooking up the random wire at the far end versus
the closer end.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

HFguy wrote:
wrote:

I have read that the best way, quiestest, to hook into a random wire is
at the far end, attach a balun, go thru a ground block attached to a
ground rod, bury the coax as it runs to the house, go thru another
ground block which is connected to another ground rod then into the
house.

I have 2 options here, one is the above (about 150 feet of coax), the
other is to hook into the random at the near end, thru a balun, feed
into the attic to a ground block that has about 40 feet of ground wire
attached coming from the ground rod, then to the receiver.

Which is the better? Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?

The first method is better because you can use a short ground wire
between the balun and the ground rod to make an effective RF ground. The
balun should be located close to the ground (earth) so the grounding
wire to the rod can be kept to a minimum length (no more than 2-feet).
The ground wire in the second method is much too long to be an effective
RF ground. It could act more like an antenna for picking up common mode
noise.

I am still having a problem getting my head around the short ground
connection to the rod.

What is the difference between say 40 ft. of ground wire to the ground
block versas the outer coax jacket going 40 ft after the ground block
that is 2 feet from the rod.

Would either not act as an antenna for picking up common mode noise?

Brian

dxAce wrote:
HFguy wrote:

wrote:

I have read that the best way, quiestest, to hook into a random wire is
at the far end, attach a balun, go thru a ground block attached to a
ground rod, bury the coax as it runs to the house, go thru another
ground block which is connected to another ground rod then into the
house.

I have 2 options here, one is the above (about 150 feet of coax), the
other is to hook into the random at the near end, thru a balun, feed
into the attic to a ground block that has about 40 feet of ground wire
attached coming from the ground rod, then to the receiver.

Which is the better? Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?

The first method is better because you can use a short ground wire
between the balun and the ground rod to make an effective RF ground. The
balun should be located close to the ground (earth) so the grounding
wire to the rod can be kept to a minimum length (no more than 2-feet).
The ground wire in the second method is much too long to be an effective
RF ground. It could act more like an antenna for picking up common mode
noise.

Before this thread got started I'd never really heard of the practice of using
the extra length of coax and hooking up the random wire at the far end versus
the closer end.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

dxAce, Don't you have your antenna feeds connect to your wires a fair
distance from your house anyway? (I say this based on a cursory look at
the photos on your website...)

Thus, in your circumstances, it may not be all that critical...in which
case I might not have stumbled across it either. If I could connect
farther from my house, I would - but in my case, it would put the
lead-in adjacent to one of two sets of electrical lines that partially
rim my yard. Living in the city can bite sometimes (to put it mildly).

Bruce Jensen

bpnjensen wrote:

dxAce wrote:
HFguy wrote:

wrote:

I have read that the best way, quiestest, to hook into a random wire is
at the far end, attach a balun, go thru a ground block attached to a
ground rod, bury the coax as it runs to the house, go thru another
ground block which is connected to another ground rod then into the
house.

I have 2 options here, one is the above (about 150 feet of coax), the
other is to hook into the random at the near end, thru a balun, feed
into the attic to a ground block that has about 40 feet of ground wire
attached coming from the ground rod, then to the receiver.

Which is the better? Is there enough difference to warrant the extra
expense of the 1st option, more coax, over the 2nd?

The first method is better because you can use a short ground wire
between the balun and the ground rod to make an effective RF ground. The
balun should be located close to the ground (earth) so the grounding
wire to the rod can be kept to a minimum length (no more than 2-feet).
The ground wire in the second method is much too long to be an effective
RF ground. It could act more like an antenna for picking up common mode
noise.

Before this thread got started I'd never really heard of the practice of using
the extra length of coax and hooking up the random wire at the far end versus
the closer end.

dxAce, Don't you have your antenna feeds connect to your wires a fair
distance from your house anyway? (I say this based on a cursory look at
the photos on your website...)

Yes, I'd say they're about 50-75 feet out back.

Thus, in your circumstances, it may not be all that critical...in which
case I might not have stumbled across it either. If I could connect
farther from my house, I would - but in my case, it would put the
lead-in adjacent to one of two sets of electrical lines that partially
rim my yard. Living in the city can bite sometimes (to put it mildly).

Sorry, I still don't get it. The antenna is where the antenna is!

Now I could imagine that it would make a difference ( though slight ) if for example
I were to feed my 200' wire at the far end ( east end ) in which case it might just
receive just a bit better to the west depending upon the frequency.

By the way, my matching transformers are grounded at the feedpoint with about 9' of
ground wire ( horrors! ).

http://www.iserv.net/~n8kdv/pics.htm

Antenna pic is looking west, at the end of the then 100' wire, now extended to 200'.
Pic was taken in Nov. 2001.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

dxAce wrote:

dxAce, Don't you have your antenna feeds connect to your wires a fair
distance from your house anyway? (I say this based on a cursory look at
the photos on your website...)

Yes, I'd say they're about 50-75 feet out back.

That's a good safe distance, I'd say.

Thus, in your circumstances, it may not be all that critical...in which
case I might not have stumbled across it either. If I could connect
farther from my house, I would - but in my case, it would put the
lead-in adjacent to one of two sets of electrical lines that partially
rim my yard. Living in the city can bite sometimes (to put it mildly).

Sorry, I still don't get it. The antenna is where the antenna is!

Now I could imagine that it would make a difference ( though slight ) if for example
I were to feed my 200' wire at the far end ( east end ) in which case it might just
receive just a bit better to the west depending upon the frequency.

By the way, my matching transformers are grounded at the feedpoint with about 9' of
ground wire ( horrors! ).

This may be the key right here. Getting the *groundpoint* well away
from the house keeps it out of the hornet's nest of RF that swarms
around most homes, and prevents it from becoming a significant conduit
(at least that's the theory). For most people, this will mean feeding
it at the far end of the antenna. In my own case, I have RF sources at
all points of my smallish yard, so it wouldn't make a lot of difference
where I feed and ground the thing. A windom-style antenna with a
central feed and ground point might help, but even then I'd only be
about 15-20 feet horizontally from any major RF source at best.

I don't think the groundwire length makes that much diff, as long as
it's well away from RFI.

http://www.iserv.net/~n8kdv/pics.htm

Antenna pic is looking west, at the end of the then 100' wire, now extended to 200'.
Pic was taken in Nov. 2001.

Nice setup - nothing too high, over open ground so it's easy to work
on. Even though it's sort of low (maybe ten feet?), you get the
probable advantage of relatively quiet RF environment - well, I guess I
can dream!

BJ

dxAce
Michigan
USA

dxAce,looking at those trees,I would guess the picture was taken in the
Springtime.But what do I know? Looking at the ground,perhaps in the Fall
of the year.Nice antenna setup anyway.
cuhulin