Mike wrote:
...
Mike


Our watches and clocks all measure the spinning of the earth, one spin =
24 hours. Now that is all very nice and everything, and it does get me
to appointments on time, but it is NOT "real."

Imagine just before the big bang, when all the matter in the universe
sprang forth from some sub-atomic particle sized piece into all "our
matter" now. And, imagine four old bearded men sitting there and
observing the big bang--what do the wrist watches on their arms measure?
There is no "earth spinning" to measure time by, indeed, there is no
matter.

If time exists, it exists on a "Universal Time Frame." And, no one has
"viewed" it yet--just like the ether.

When we finally do know the answers, we will see how it was stupid to
try to use "earth spinning" in our mathematics!

JS

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:
...
Mike


Our watches and clocks all measure the spinning of the earth, one spin =
24 hours. Now that is all very nice and everything, and it does get me to
appointments on time, but it is NOT "real."

Of course it is real. The clock gets you to appointments "on time" for the
same reason that directions and maps get you to appointments "on spot".

Imagine just before the big bang, when all the matter in the universe
sprang forth from some sub-atomic particle sized piece into all "our
matter" now. And, imagine four old bearded men sitting there and
observing the big bang--what do the wrist watches on their arms measure?

Who knows? It doesn't really matter *what* they measure! But they
clearly are measuring *something*, or they wouldn't be wearing them, right?
That they have no concept of Earthly hours is irrelevent. Just like the
lengths of their beards are measuring *something*, even though they don't
know about inches or meters or any of our Earthly measurements of length.

As I said earlier, all of the measuring tools and terms we use to define the
4 dimensions are
purely arbitrary. What they are measuring, however, is very real. The
concepts of before, now and after are as real and universal as up, down,
left, right, forward and backward.

Perhaps the Big Bang happens in cycles, every 24 "hours" on their "watches".
As Einstein showed, time is relative to the velocity of the observer.

Mike

In article , "Mike"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
OK,go look at your cute clocks and your cute wris****ches and on tv and
everywhere else y'all see ''Time'',,,, keep on believing in
y'allselfs.''Time'' does not exist,NO such thing.

Of course it exists. It is the 4th dimension.

Example: when you make plans to meet someone - say for lunch - how many
coordinates do you give? You say "meet me at Harry's diner at main and
3rd, at 1:00 o'clock". You give 4 coordinates - 3 physical and one of
time.

Length, width, height, duration. There are (at least) 4 dimensions. Saying
WHERE something exists is meaningless without saying WHEN it exists. Did
Harry's diner exist at 3rd and Main 1 year ago? A million years ago?

Clocks are just the measuring stick. Just as physical dimensions exist
independently of feet, meters, and light-years, time exists independently of
what we use to measure it.

Clocks, inches, sundials, kilometers, decaying atoms, light-years, quartz
vibrations, the movement of Earth around the Sun etc. are all just
convenient measuring tools. They all give reference points, so we can say
things like "The restaurant is a mile north of here" or "I'll be at the
restaurant in an hour". The "mile" has no real existence, it's just an
agreed upon definition of a length of distance. Similarly, the "hour" has
no real existence, it's just an agreed upon definition of a length of time.

All of the measuring tools and terms we use to define the 4 dimensions are
purely arbitrary. What they are measuring, however, is very real. The
concepts of before, now and after are as real and universal as up, down,
left, right, forward and backward.

I don't think it a dimension like the ones you write about but there is
also spin. Spin has several qualities of its own.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
I don't think it a dimension like the ones you write about but there is
also spin. Spin has several qualities of its own.

Time is not a *physical* dimension like the others, but it is equally real
and measurable.

Does something that has 0 duration physically exist? Not in this universe.

Does something that has 0 length physically exist? Not in this universe.

Mike

Mike wrote:
...

Our watches and clocks all measure the spinning of the earth, one spin
= 24 hours. Now that is all very nice and everything, and it does get
me to appointments on time, but it is NOT "real."

Of course it is real. The clock gets you to appointments "on time" for
the same reason that directions and maps get you to appointments "on spot".

Imagine just before the big bang, when all the matter in the universe
sprang forth from some sub-atomic particle sized piece into all "our
matter" now. And, imagine four old bearded men sitting there and
observing the big bang--what do the wrist watches on their arms measure?

Who knows? It doesn't really matter *what* they measure! But they
clearly are measuring *something*, or they wouldn't be wearing them,
right? That they have no concept of Earthly hours is irrelevent. Just
like the lengths of their beards are measuring *something*, even though
they don't know about inches or meters or any of our Earthly
measurements of length.

...
Mike




What our watches measure is "something", it could just be some
undiscovered quality/law of matter, and that is useful--my appointment
keeping stands.

However, when you start plugging these things into mathematical "laws"
and NOT caring EXACTLY what they are about, it is insane, now it is
useful--and one is best using such 'til better comes along ... BUT, you
NEVER forget you really DON'T KNOW or DON'T UNDERSTAND what is really
happening and are only substituting "magic numbers" so as to get some
type of usable results ...

Today there are many things we use without understanding them, this is
good, but only a fool says, "Don't worry about what is really going on,
this will get us where we are going." Because, without always searching
the truths, we will fail to make the new discoveries and start accepting
our "made up formulas" as reality.

There are many examples we need to look further, only the fools stand
saying we know it all, we cannot even state we absolutely know photons
exist! (however, allowing that they do gives us usable theory, for the
moment ...)

JS

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
What our watches measure is "something", it could just be some
undiscovered quality/law of matter, and that is useful--my appointment
keeping stands.

However, when you start plugging these things into mathematical "laws" and
NOT caring EXACTLY what they are about, it is insane, now it is
useful--and one is best using such 'til better comes along ... BUT, you
NEVER forget you really DON'T KNOW or DON'T UNDERSTAND what is really
happening and are only substituting "magic numbers" so as to get some type
of usable results ...

Well, that's the current state of physics, isn't it? We don't know what
electricity "really is" either, but that doesn't stop us from producing
"mathematical laws" that describe it's behavior. Electricity is "real"
even though we don't know what it "really is".

The same applies to gravity, and to spacetime.

Mike

Mike wrote:
...

Well, that's the current state of physics, isn't it? We don't know
what electricity "really is" either, but that doesn't stop us from
producing "mathematical laws" that describe it's behavior.
Electricity is "real" even though we don't know what it "really is".

The same applies to gravity, and to spacetime.

Mike


Yes Mike, that is pretty much the state of things, let us not leave it
there ...

Let's advance some theories, attempt some experiments (even if they are
DAMN WRONG!), some answers are bound to fall out of the tree.

But, let's not be afraid to question all which is.

JS

In article ,
John Smith wrote:

Telamon wrote:
...

So now you claim dc motors, ac motors, generators, alternators all
depend on shooting photons at the "other winding" to induce power there?
And, it is these photons which actually created the magnetic lines of
force which drive them ...

And, my magnet is shooting photons from one end to another, interesting ...

No, I did not claim that. Local induction fields are a different thing.
Local phenomena depend on electron movement. Far field effects are
carried by photons in EM waves.

Electrons are a particle responsible for the electric field. When
electrons move they also generate a magnetic field.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article , "Mike"
wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
I don't think it a dimension like the ones you write about but there is
also spin. Spin has several qualities of its own.

Time is not a *physical* dimension like the others, but it is equally real
and measurable.

Does something that has 0 duration physically exist? Not in this universe.

Does something that has 0 length physically exist? Not in this universe.

Yeah, I agree about time. I was mentioning spin, which is not a
dimension like the three spatial and time.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article , "Mike"
wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in
message
...


I don't think it a dimension like the ones you write about but
there is also spin. Spin has several qualities of its own.
Time is not a *physical* dimension like the others, but it is
equally real and measurable.

Does something that has 0 duration physically exist? Not in this
universe.

Does something that has 0 length physically exist? Not in this
universe.

Telamon wrote:

Yeah, I agree about time. I was mentioning spin, which is not a
dimension like the three spatial and time.

So here you are, YET AGAIN aiding and abetting a post that has
*nothing* to do with short wave. (maybe rec.physics, rec.quantum
mechanics???)

Oh, sorry. I forgot. It's OK for you, just not anyone else.

Happy Holidays anyway!